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12:00 AM
but by the last emails on the thread, I see the intention is now to merge the fix and release (without RC8).
 
Sounds good to me. With how simple the fix was, I see no reason for another RC.
 
Well… the value is to make sure it didn't inadvertently break something.
That's why plenty of places have a no changes rule in last RC -> release.
 
I.. what
This is a critical bug
 
That makes sense too, hence the debate I guess.
 
what's the policy for opcache? it still seems very unstable :/
 
12:03 AM
What's the point of a .0.0 version if it isn't stable?
I can't believe this discussion is taking that long :|
 
@MadaraUchiha Well… depends what you mean by "stable".
 
@DanLugg native monkeypatching? ew
 
@LeviMorrison No critical/fatal bugs
At the very least.
@LeviMorrison See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Internals splits into two camps on any given issue, and resolution is delayed by weeks/months/forever.
This is why PHP is so relatively slow to react to changes (even Java reacted better, TBF)
 
I think language design should have a larger barrier to entry. I imagine this is an unpopular opinion.
I think language design is difficult and opinionated.
 
@LeviMorrison It would certainly reduce the noise, which would be extremely helpful.
 
12:06 AM
It is therefore hard to develop languages in the open.
 
@LeviMorrison Internals isn't (just) about language design.
 
However, when the incumbent developers have differing opinions on everything… what does the barrier of entry matter?
 
And it really doesn't matter what you're developing, if it's open source, it shouldn't be nearly exclusively managed and discussed by a group of 20-30 people.
 
Sorry if I sound repetitive, but we can't go the cabal way for PHP... not with the groups of interest we have today. PHP would basically enter feature freeze forever xD
 
@LeviMorrison Why should there be a barrier of entry for discussion?
What if I'm not a very good language designer, but my algorithms and performance game is spot on?
 
12:08 AM
Sometimes things are better designed by an individual or small group. Clojure is a good example.
 
What if I can design beautiful, readable, clear interfaces, but have absolutely no knowledge of PHP's internals or C
 
Bad discussion wastes time, the most precious thing of all.
 
Should I be excluded from discussion there?
@LeviMorrison Bad discussion is a great % of internals, and you know it :P
 
Yes, yes I do.
:D
 
@LeviMorrison Do you know what insanity is?
Insanity is using the same broken system for years and years, and hoping that one day everything gets better.
 
12:09 AM
I rarely used the "Mark all as read" button until I subscribed to internals.
 
I think if PHP is going to continue to evolve we honestly need to oust some incumbents.
In our current ecosystem good proposals can make it through (and some bad ones)… but these are mostly limited to new functionality.
I think we do need larger BC breaks than were done in PHP 7 if we are going to thrive.
 
@LeviMorrison Very much agree.
 
But, if we just want to go into long-term maintenance mode… then we should slow down.
 
@LeviMorrison My biggest disappointment in PHP 7 were the distinct lack of BC breakage.
Here we have this major version, which was so major that they had to skip an entire version number for it
Holy shit, must be one of the biggest changes to PHP ever!
Meh.
 
Well, at least I got old style constructors to be officially deprecated to be removed in PHP 8.
:D
 
12:12 AM
@MadaraUchiha I believe they wanted to avoid the mess that was Python 3.
 
@Trowski I believe they already have that mess by dropping ext/mysql
They just don't know it yet :D
 
@MadaraUchiha s/mysql/mysqli and you're 95% of the way there.
 
@LeviMorrison look at Rust, the entry barrier is the lowest I've seen. You just create a github issue as an RFC... they do have cabal, but they are compromised with keeping the project community driven and attending the community needs (as long as it doesn't clash with the overall project). How could we elect a cabal group like that for PHP? I see no way.
 
@Trowski That sounds suspiciously like work.
What PHP lacks most is a direction
Does PHP want contribution from the community? Does it want only hard earned core contributors and nothing else? Does PHP intend to continue as a n00b-first language? Does it intend to be a more serious language with features other languages have?
Try to discuss even one of those in internals, I dare you, I double dare you.
 
@MadaraUchiha that's the biggest thing we got right
 
12:15 AM
@ircmaxell You release a major version to break things.
To get rid of mistakes.
 
@MadaraUchiha things were broken
tons of things were fixed
 
@ircmaxell vOv I've looked at the changelog. There aren't a lot of things there that justify a major
Also, because PHP 7 is PHP 7 and not PHP 6, a huge change was anticipated
 
major is not just user-land breaks
and user-land breaks are idiotic
unless they are extremely justified
and there were none proposed that were decently justified
 
PHP7 memory usage for objects/arrays/etc is totally different internally - that's pretty major
 
@MarkBaker Fair point.
 
12:46 AM
lol, wordpress.com moved part of its logic to node.js
 
Any commendable currency conversion API?
No stock-related.. I just need to convert USD to CAD, EUR etc..
 
1:08 AM
@ircmaxell I really wish I could fix the class properties syntax but it's too big of a break
everything else in PHP's syntax might be excusable. maybe even the ternary operator
but not the abomination that is static properties
 
Would array access casting numeric string offsets to int be considered a bug? Or expected behaviour?
 
@rtheunissen Do you mean normal $someArray[...], or do you mean ArrayAccess? The former is expected.
 
The latter.
 
Oh dear.
ArrayAccess doing that sounds like a bug to me...
 
ArrayAccess (and internal handlers) will cast numeric string offsets to int, but objects are okay? WHY?! :( #php https://3v4l.org/98hIL
 
1:12 AM
file a bug
 
though, idk, maybe this is arguably correct
 
My opinion is that it should be up to the implementation to determine how it handles the key.
Especially with strict types.
I'd be happy to implement a patch but only if there's support for it.
 
the problem AIUI is that PHP optimises $foo["123"] to $foo[123]
but it can't know if $foo is an object or an array
 
Right now I can't distinguish between an int and a string key. For example, let's say you have some collection like $a->contains('1'); it's impossible to implement the equivalent for isset unless you imply that '1' and 1 both return true (which is inconsistent).
 
1:42 AM
@Andrea are you saying that a patch would actually be quite difficult?

> but it can't know if $foo is an object or an array
 
2:07 AM
you'd just remove the optimisation entirely
that might be difficult though
 
Abe
2:33 AM
@rtheunissen surprisingly floats don't get trimmed to integers
 
@Abe :<
 
Abe
as happens with normal arrays
rofl:
-Type: Bug
+Type: Documentation Problem
 
I'm not arguing that normal array behaviour should change. Most array access implementations use an internal array anyway so the behaviour would be transferred. But it would be better if the implementation could determine how to handle the key.
Array syntax, more than array behaviour? I don't know.
The fact that SplObjectStorage can make use of object keys shows that there's a use case for that.
 
Abe
i totally agree with you
 
Abe
3:08 AM
@marcio macro's are like pre-pre-processors? :P
 
Yeah they're just substituted in place, I think.
Haha what are you looking at?
 
@Andrea Monkey patching is definitely the wrong term; it doesn't modify the original definition, but just adds handlers for missing methods.
 
Abe
@rtheunissen some project marcio is working on, a php macro thingy :P
 
Got excited that you might be looking at the array access stuff.
 
Abe
how? :P
 
3:18 AM
lxr.php.net maybe? I'm trying to find where it's happening.
 
Abe
i can only agree with you. that's as far my support can go :D i don't know c
 
I'm inclined to say the ArrayAccess conversion is a bug.
 
Abe
but perhaps Levi would
 
@LeviMorrison do you know if it would be a reasonably easy patch?
 
Well, depends where the conversion is happening :)
 
3:21 AM
That's what I'm trying to track down, with little progress so far.
 
Abe
isn't it an optimization "encapsed int" to int before compile?
 
Not sure. I am on my phone atm so it is hard to check.
 
@LeviMorrison I would expect that ArrayAccess behaves consistently with arrays.......is there known a sane reason why they convert strings to ints?
 
Abe
i like how i guess stuff knowing nothing of what i'm saying :D
 
It may have been an optimisation meant for arrays that affected array access syntax as well.
 
3:24 AM
@rtheunissen it's not an optimisation as such. It appears to be a deliberate choice to make life 'easier' for people.
 
It is probably some kind of optimization gone wrong.
The behavior change in 5.4 is curious.
 
Abe
if intent was to keep it consistent with arrays i would expect floats to get trimmed to integers as well
 
3v4l.org/piJL6 shows that arrays truncate floats and use the int, but array access doesn't.
Which (hopefully) indicates that they are not operating under the same casting mechanics.
 
3:41 AM
morning
 
Abe
o/
 
@Abe macros are one of the ways you can do meta programming... many languages have that: rust, D, Elixyr, Javascript (with sweet js). There is also the C pre processor (which is very primitive). In all cases, it allows you to write code that generates code at some level. Some languages even use their own macro infrastructure to implement language features that are a superset of some already existing feature.
 
3:56 AM
 how do you do something like this legally:
<script src="//raw.githubusercontent.com/FREE-FROM-CMS/content_swaper/master/engine.js"></script>
 
Abe
@marcio and macros are evaluated once and the the resulting code gets compiled instead?
 
@3.14159265358... you could try rawgit.com
@Abe that depends... some languages allows you to build quasi code like if they were macros (actually they are) and then you can compile the ASTs on the fly... perl 6 has it as a first class feature (strangelyconsistent.org/blog/macros-what-are-they-really). Other have a sophisticated macro system that expands before the compilation. The implementation and capabilities varies a lot.
And some languages opted to have a reflection API to generate code, like C#, which translated to PHP would be something like this "$ast = new If(new Expression(New Var(...))), new Block(New Statement(etc...))); $ast->compile()->run();"
 
Abe
interesting
 
If you care enough about the reflection approach, read this twistedoakstudios.com/blog/…, with c#
 
Abe
4:11 AM
what would be the use cases for php?
like, "if ext mbstring is not enabled use these userland functions instead" ?
 
On the article above, the guy faced a language barrier (slowness), and decided to compile a bunch of stacked function calls into a single specialized function on the fly and got some nice results.
Usage may vary too. For example, sweet js is being used to create new language features (or back port future ECMASCRIPT features from the future). Some js frameworks also use it to create DSLs or embed xml as a first class thing in javascript (like reactjs did) sweetjs.org/doc/main/sweet.html
 
Abe
isn't that slow as hell (what react did) :P
 
That depends too... for compiled languages it might have no impact. For interpreted languages maybe, but if you create a mechanism to expand and cache the source there is no runtime cost.
 
Abe
i see
 
(unless the pre processor is so slow that the expansion becomes costly, you won't have issues)
BTW, there is an RFC that covers a little bit of that: parser extension api
 
Abe
4:21 AM
that would be awesome
 
I'm not sure if that's awesome, but certainly it's worth the experiment :)
anyway, gn
 
Abe
gn!
for me it would mean that i will not need to learn c to implement php hax :D
 
5:13 AM
morning
 
5:25 AM
@Andrea @Abe The ArrayAccess bug has already been reported three years ago, but I've added a comment. https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=63217

I don't think I can do much further.
 
5:48 AM
How can I insert this Peso sign in multicell?
$pdf->SetXY(14.75,89); $pdf->MultiCell(100, 5, '&#8369;', 0, 'L', 0, 0, '', '', true);
&#8369; <--- This.. Because it shows &#8369; not (P)
 
Abe
try to use the character directly rather than the entity?
 
@Micaela you could try mb_convert_encoding('&#8369;', 'UTF-8', 'HTML-ENTITIES');
 
Abe
$pdf->SetXY(14.75,89); $pdf->MultiCell(100, 5, '₱', 0, 'L', 0, 0, '', '', true);
 
html_entity_decode('&#8369;', 0, 'UTF-8'); would work too.
 
I already tried that and the output is "?" @Abe
wait
 
Abe
5:57 AM
try to set the input encoding for the pdf thingy you are using
 
@Micaela json_decode('"'.'\u20b1'.'"') will work.
 
Abe
@Porlune why on earth would you do that :D
 
.. because it works.
:D
 
and where will i put that?W
 
in place of wherever you wanted the peso.
 
Abe
6:09 AM
sigh
 
output : ?
 
morning
 
Abe
@Micaela check the .php file's encoding and the encoding used by the pdf library you are using
then tune one or the other to use the same encoding
@Micaela try this
$pdf->SetXY(14.75,89); $pdf->MultiCell(100, 5, iconv('utf-8', 'windows-1252', '₱'), 0, 'L', 0, 0, '', '', true);
(assuming that your files are encoded as utf-8)
@Orangepill o/
 
Abe
if it doesn't work try,
$pdf->SetXY(14.75,89); $pdf->MultiCell(100, 5, iconv('utf-8', 'iso-8859-1', '₱'), 0, 'L', 0, 0, '', '', true);
 
6:23 AM
@NikiC why does zval.u2 and HashTable use uint32_t explictly, rather than zend_ulong?
 
moin
 
Morning @JoeWatkins
 
Funny thing. Joe Watkins is the author of pthreads, and still Tudor tries to prove him wrong. — Hristo Valkanov Aug 25 at 7:16
@HristoValkanov No. He isn't. Implementing pthreads for PHP is a world away from being the "author of pthreads" ;-) — Blue Moon Nov 19 at 9:55
names always get me in trouble ...
nevermind that nobody is the author of posix threads, because it's a ruddy standard, not a bit of software
I might just start numbering projects in anticipation of their names causing me trouble ...
 
Hi, any one have amazon's email as sample from Amazon to seller to make alert (Order Update, new order message, new order etc) ? Actually i need Amazon seller's email which always amazon send to their seller customer to make alert.. also i am looking for email id which amazon always used to make alert to seller.s
 
7:10 AM
posted on November 24, 2015 by nlecointre

/* by zefigue */

 
good morning
 
good morning
 
Morning
 
7:26 AM
'nin
 
Hi all great people
Hope all are doing good
Please someone help me in the issue I'm facing.
0
Q: How to check email id's with specific domain from the array of email id's in PHP?

user2839497I've an array of email ids. I want to check each and every email id for it's domain. Actually, I've to parse over this array whenever there is email id found with no '.edu' domain, error message should be thrown as 'Please enter valid .edu id' and further emails from the array should not be check...

Can somebody please help me out?
 
7:59 AM
Hi, Has someone an idea for an editor to easy edit a project on a FTP.
 
hello
you mean fillzilla??
filezilla?
@Duikboot
 
Godzilla ?
 
Can I easily open with Filezille my project in an other editor? An immedialty save?
:D
 
yes
 
Godzilla > Filezilla
 
8:02 AM
hahaha
 
Mozilla -><-
 
still Godzilla is greater
 
8:28 AM
morning
 
morning
 
Hi
guys i have a question are you using mysql 5.7?
do you have any ideas on how to make the mysql not strict?
like int doesn't have a default value
my mysql last version was 5.6 when upgrading by 5.7 it throws some strict errors
when the dfault value is 0
 
8:49 AM
@user2839497 for each email, split on @. the last element contains the domain.
 
If Godzilla is originally Gojira, then Filezilla is Filejira and Mozilla is Mojira
 
Morning!
 
moning
 
Holy moly, that's interesting
 
Be interesting to see how that pans out for them - can they make it as easy to install and setup as PHP-based stuff - and run on as many servers.
 
9:04 AM
-_-
It is wordpress.com which is moving, not the wordpress engine-framework-operating-system
Infact, the core wordpress API would still remain in PHP
 
Yeah, surely it fails for anything that extends WP though, right?
 
yes
I very much dislike the way people are putting it, though. It creates a sense of "nodejs > php('s ecosystem)" feeling.
 
9:25 AM
@Sean Lying title is lying.
 
Yeah
 
@rtheunissen zend_ulong is too large. We only have 4 bytes there and zend_ulong is 8 bytes on 64 bit systems
 
@Sean Shit, they're moving to node because their code is so terrible that they need extra power from the language to make it better rather than actually write nice code...
Good riddance I say!
@AwalGarg Oh. Okay :)
(baby steps)
 
Considering that the wordpress ecosystem is so terribly dependant on wordpress themes and extensions which would all be rendered useless if they move to node, I hardly thing they would step further than this.
 
Also didn't know that they bought out woocommerce either!
E_BLOWING_OWN_HORN
Heck of a ballache to do, but it worked in the end.
 
10:06 AM
posted on November 24, 2015 by nlecointre

/* by Eric */

 
10:24 AM
someone here who could help me understand JWT?
 
10:46 AM
Morning
 
o/
 
morning
 
Nothing like a boyband playlist to raise those Tuesday spirits
3
Said playlist, for reference (spotify:user:1160784598:playlist:1eC8Y4dLhn7zAnVwC4NjzM)
 
11:32 AM
@Ocramius I'm going to campaign for YAML hating as a form of racism
 
@Jimbo go away, you YAML supporter scum!
:P
 
Why always the result of this query is just one row?
select t.*, count(*) as total
from tbl t
where t.col = 'anything'
limit 5
 
@Shafizadeh without a GROUP BY, you will only have one group
 
group by on which column?
how to set group by on all columns?
 
you'd GROUP BY all columns :P
although that would be silly if you have any primary key anyway :P
 
11:44 AM
@Ocramius Well, I have solve it. Thanks :*
@Ocramius yes I have an primary key named id, So just GROUP BY id is enough?
 
that would only give you 1 for every row
(as the result of the count)
 
!!
I got it
I wonder, why this answer hast +6 upvote ..?!
 
Did you ever use promises in PHP?
^ Actually a poll.
 
@kelunik sure :-P
 
11:59 AM
@AccountUnknown Uh, is that C#?
 
but the error is in MySQL
 
Abe
@nikita2206 ping? iirc you know something about generics. how do you see classes supporting variance (instead allowing interfaces only)? since php doesn't have reference declarations, it might work.
hack allows it. still i'm unsure if could cause problems
 
@AccountUnknown Yea, but this is the php room.
 
who do I have to sleep with to get a one of each?
@NikiC you are apparently at that conf. Can you bring me one of each of those. not the big red one, but the other three
I'll pay for them ofc
 
You're going to pay someone to sleep with them?
 
12:09 PM
@Gordon isn't there only one gold one in the whole world?
 
@salathe I dont know. it's probably zeevs judging by the tweets showing it
but if any one those three can be bought at #forumphp I'd be more than happy if someone could do that for me
 
@Abe you mean variance of generic classes? It depends on how you want to support it. I like Scala's approach the best, when you can declare which variance exactly should be used for the given type variable twitter.github.io/scala_school/type-basics.html
 
oh, phpforum is in France?
damn
 
@Gordon same here, @bwoebi said it's not possible, don't know...
 
I should have gone, just to get some elephpants :(
 
12:16 PM
@Gordon I wish… then I'd have bought two others…
 
@bwoebi are you at the conf?
 
@Gordon yep
 
@bwoebi so none of them is available?
not even the cyan ones?
what is the small red one?
 
@Gordon some special one only Zeev has
 
im going crazy. I NEED THESE ELEPHPANTS
 
12:17 PM
@Gordon nah :s … at least not for buying.
 
damn!
 
I got just one single… with pure luck.
 
@Gordon you can find real cyan elephants near my place :D
(India)
 
haha
 
Abe
@nikita2206 scala has such an ugly syntax..
 
12:18 PM
@AwalGarg E_NOT_FLUFFY_ENOUGH
@bwoebi how did you get it?
 
@Gordon UNEXPECTED_ERROR_BEFORE_PARSING
 
@Gordon Zeev threw it at the crowd… and… MINE! :-D
 
@Abe if you think about it, there're not much options for syntax for expressing type variance :P
 
@bwoebi can you kidnap zeev?
 
Abe
i meant in general, i understand nothing of it
 
12:20 PM
@Gordon need more muscles :-P
 
zeev is the guy who didn't want sth in 7, right?
DO IT!
 
@bwoebi get someone to help you
 
@Gordon no need to kidnap zeev, just the elephpants ;-P
 
@Gordon /me imagines Derick, Nikita, Anatol and Rasmus trying to kidnap Zeev :-D
 
@bwoebi DO IT!!!1
 
12:22 PM
What, you guys are all meeting up somewhere? Nobody told me :(
 
lol
 
@Leigh #forumphp
 
in Paris :(
I could've gone
although my wife doesn't want me to go to Paris anymore...
 
@FlorianMargaine you could have helped kidnap the elephpants!
 
@Gordon or I could've gotten @bwoebi's elephphant...
 
12:24 PM
as long as you sell it to me afterwards kidnap whoever has one
 
how much are you ready to pay?
depending on the price, I can organize that.
 
@FlorianMargaine I'll just kidnap @bwoebi's elephphant :P
 
I have "friends" in Paris
 
@kelunik nah :-P
 
12:28 PM
@Gordon deal!
@bwoebi check your back
hehehe
 
wow, they are making golden elephants now $$$
 
@marcio its apparently a unique one
 
The bigger red one sounds like a better choice to me
 
@AwalGarg but it has the zend logo on it
 
oh, eww
 
12:37 PM
One thing that'd be really cool is if every contributor to PHP 7 received a PHP 7 Elephpant...
 
@marcio WHERE DO I CONTRIBUTE?!!
 
@marcio does my quickfix count as contribution?
 
@marcio I'd get an elephpant :D
 
probably, IDK, judging by the github contributor statistics, we wouldn't need more than 60 elephants (but counting just commits may be unfair I guess).
 
12:39 PM
I built 7 and then it asked if I want to send some very useful kind of info to the php something team. I selected yes. Does that count as a contribution? :D
 
I did s/php5/php7/, so I have a lot of contributed lines. I probably introduced bugs for other people though, does that count? :P
 
@marcio would still be cool, yeah
 
@FlorianMargaine yes, newly added bugs should count as contribution :D
 
@marcio I need a normal one too!
 
@bwoebi a normal one?
 
12:44 PM
@marcio yeah, these without the 7.
 
oh, your elephant is the ruby one?
 
?
 
It's a zendphpant.
 
^^
 
heh, I thought it was the small red one up there ^
 
12:46 PM
on a side note, I still didnt get my wooly elephpant and november is almost over
 
All the cool guys around :) #forumphp https://t.co/6PwtTD02ec
7
 

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