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12:00 AM
Sometimes we post stuff in here that would be pretty offensive to a sensitive soul who just happened to drop in, we should probably work on that...
@JoeWatkins You have any proper pain killers?
 
worryingly, I've heard my daughter call somethng gay, immediately asked her what she meant by that, she couldn't give my an answer ...
co-dydramol and ibuprofen ... Im taking maximum dose
 
I have a shit-ton of codeine in the bathroom cabinet, not much use to you there though
 
yeah these are a mix of codine and paracetamol ...
some kind of codine ...
 
Oh, well then you can probably take quite a few more than the maximum prescribed dose (not a recommendation, just saying)
The human toxicity for paracetemol is something 4 or 5 boxes of 16X500mg, I recall reading somewhere
 
they worked really well last night ... not so much tonight ... probably because empty stomach ...
 
12:03 AM
(again, really not a recommendation)
 
@DaveRandom NO
 
@JoeWatkins Oh well no problem then, just have a bottle of scotch
58 secs ago, by DaveRandom
(again, really not a recommendation)
 
Paracetamol is really easy to overdose on accidentally.....
 
orly?
 
got nothing in ...
 
12:05 AM
I never take pain killers for anything ever
I'm sure I would if I broke a bone or something that gave me actual pain
 
I don't like to take pills for anything either ... I've no choice, I really can't cope with it ...
I'm good with pain ... this is something else ...
 
yeah - basically it's totally safe up to the a bit over the prescribed limit, and then for overdoses it just kills your liver, and then you die a few days later.
@JoeWatkins You've been under a lot stress recently, is there a chance you've been griding your teeth?
 
I have tattoos everywhere, lots of them I done to myself ... pain is no problem at all ...
quite possible actually ...
 
i.e. pain shooting up into your temples?
 
I have snorted paracetemol before, turns out all that does is transfer the pain to your nose
 
12:07 AM
have abscesses, saw emergency dentist last night ...
lol
 
Also the drips taste really disgusting
 
pain is overwhelming ...
 
A night cap maybe?
 
I once took some paracetamol without a drink nearby, they crumbled while waiting a drink and my god, the taste was just the worst chemical taste I ever had ...
 
I always thought it was basically amphetamines but worse
 
12:10 AM
so much worse, worse than the most potent stuff I ever tasted ...
got no drink in and everywhere is shut now because sunday ...
while I'm occupied, it's not on my mind ...
so I'll just stay occupied until I fall unconscious or it's tomorrow ...
 
Can you do some of the work you would be doing tomorrow?
That way it won't matter so much if you stay up till 7 and then fall asleep
 
one quick question, urlencode transforms / to %2F or htmlspecialchars?
 
urlencode
 
thanks
 
html special chars look like &...; such as  
 
12:13 AM
I doubt I'll write anything good right now ...
work pretty much crossed the barrier to impossible ... the kids are totally bored, it's feels mean to tell them to sit in silence while I work ...
 
Oh shit yeh they aren't in school any more
 
thanks @DaveRandom
 
we get rid of the kids and I still have to ask the misses to sit in silence in our singe room ... this hole thing is just shit .. I'm glad it'll be over soon ...
 
Starbucks?
(or similar)
 
similarly I can't tell everyone in starbucks to shut up a minute while I think ...
turns out my comfort zone is pretty small place ...
 
12:16 AM
Somehow I find public noise less distracting than private noise, as it were
 
where it's more or less silent, all the time ...
 
Ear defenders?
 
are you trying to get me sectioned ?? you want me to go to starbucks and program while wearing ear defenders and asking strangers to be quiet lol
the library might work actually ... the library might be pretty good ...
 
I was thinking more so you don't have to go to starbucks but... yeh you should totally do that. If you go to a city you won't even look that out of place, people will be more interested in the buy rubbing his penis on the window
@JoeWatkins Oh yeh that's a good shout
They'll probably have free/cheap wifi
 
they do but limited to two hours
or it might be two hours for free ... not sure, never used it for long ...
 
12:19 AM
brb sandwich
 
Some days the pub is the most productive place for me. Crappy wifi == not getting distracted by internet, and headphones == win.
 
I don't really have a local that would be a good place for that ... they are all real drinkers bars, like not much seating ... more club than pub kind of places
or old guy bars where I'd be burned at the stake for witchcraft ...
 
@JoeWatkins Do you know when the next RC is meant to be release for 5.6 ? Or when the possible gold date is?
 
@Danack afaik the main blocker now for RC3 (which I think is planned as final) is the const expression bug
 
^ this, an RC a month until no more obvious bugs
eloquent, as usual ...
 
12:34 AM
I don't like hassling people ...but news.php.net/php.internals/76106 is still an issue. Tyrael and Jpauli are the release managers right?
 
Yes, I know @Danack, please. You're worse than I am when I want something form @rdlowrey.
 
for what release ?
ty for 5.6
julien for 5.5
 
morning!
 
ah - I misread the page earlier...thanks.
 
morning? nice one :p
 
12:38 AM
@zeeks never heard of UGT?
 
user895378
@DaveRandom yo whats up. On my phone. Might have lots of typos
 
moin @reikyoushin
yo @rdlowrey
 
-_- @reikyoushin, i do not know your time zone
 
@JoeWatkins been a while eh? what's up?
@zeeks the timezone is irrelevant. >.<
 
pretty shabby, yourself ??
 
12:41 AM
@rdlowrey I've been re-architecting Addr this evening and if it works out as I suspect it will, passing params (i.e. settings) in from Artax might get more complex. It'll still be doable, but you might need to create things a bit more manually so you can have refs to inner objects
I'll talk to you about it when we can look at it properly
not least because I need to bail
 
@JoeWatkins just doin some stuff with this mockjack thingy.. too bad i had to make it work on ie too. T-T
 
ie ... gross ...
 
@JoeWatkins i know. :P
 
Am actually going to bail, nn
 
nn @DaveRandom
 
user895378
12:45 AM
@Dave no problem, i can refactor whatever
 
user895378
Hey @Joe. Happy house hunting?
 
I think so ... waiting for paperwork to be done :)
/me bails, because 2am ...
night all :)
 
good night
anyone here?
 
3 hours ago, by Danack
Hello, I have a problem, but I am too lazy to write the question out until some says that they will help me. http://sol.gfxile.net/dontask.html
 
ok i got the lesson
:) please do not keep posting that
 
12:57 AM
Please don't keep making the same mistake then.
 
i am not
i wrote anyone here to know if i am the only one left online
 
@rdlowrey do you have some reason to tell @ kelunik why unicode function names are a bad idea? :-(
anyway… night, 3am here.
 
btw @rdlowrey I keep meaning to mention, PHP docblock seems to support class names starting from the current namespace, aka you should fully-qualify them, instead of:
@return After\Promise
have:
@return \After\Promise
It's only for the scalar types that the leading slash is not required.
 
1:36 AM
I had enough commits for today @____@
 
you going to sleep?
nigh everyone. i am going to sleep
 
@zeeks good night
 
user895378
2:22 AM
@Danack I'll try to remember
 
user895378
@bwoebi Because if I see characters like □□□ in my text editor I'm going to assume he's an idiot. Seriously, though. Just use ASCII. Don't be ridiculous.
 
lol
 
 
1 hour later…
user895378
3:31 AM
lol, I just ran across this gem from a month ago during the World Cup. Had to share for all the Nigels we have in this room ...
 
user895378
Messi carrying Argentina. Neymar carrying Brazil. British Airways carrying England.
 
Hello guys.. Im starting to approach to SaaS business model with PHP. I code all in raw PHP but I will start to learn a framework to be better oriented. Which PHP Framework would you recommend for a fast and easy SaaS app model deployment?
 
4:02 AM
@rodvaN what functionality (or other benefit) you expect to gain from a framework?
 
4:26 AM
@tereško you mean doing it on Raw PHP MVC will be the best? What do you think about this? php-mvc.net
 
@rodvaN I think it is piece if shit and has nothing even remotely to do with MVC
 
@tereško Do you have a better recommendation? Im up to learn new stuff everytime
 
@rodvaN here is a list, start from the top
@rodvaN also, I asked you what benefit do you expect from a framework. I didn't say anything about "raw php" .. could it be that you actually wanted to use a framework because everyone is telling you that you need a frameworK?
 
4:52 AM
@tereško people say I should use framework because it is more supported and it has better code practices.
 
Mornings
 
5:23 AM
@rodvaN I am not really sure what hides behind "more supported" argument, but "better code practices" is BS, because most of popular frameworks in PHP are filled with the various bad practices.
 
@tereško so you recommend me raw code it on MVC perspective?
 
If you want to adhere to MVC idea, then writing native PHP will be better .. but only if you have a solid understanding of application architecture. If not, then you will be better off by staying away from MVC and simply attempting to implements so variation on Separation of Concerns.
 
@tereško Im going to get into the OOP, OOD and MVC videotuts of tutsplus and see the guides you sent me. Hopefully I will have a wide idea this next week.
 
tutsplus is actually an extremely bad page
while there are some good articles, those are swamped in pile of complete crap, misinformation and harmful code
 
morning
 
5:36 AM
basically, tutsplus site is such that people who would need it are assaulted by bad information, while those who could be able to judge the quality of content have no use for the site
and w3schools is worse
 
you have become so friendly =]
 
@tereško what is better?
 
@RonniSkansing since there is no water at work (which means no coffee/tea) I am still functioning on 1/4 .. therefore I will assume that it was sarcasm
@rodvaN I already gave you the list of materials
 
@rodvaN the list he posted. Work through that and over time you will become a better developer
 
@tereško Alright, well I think tutsplus is great for beginners in some other codes. I think you could be great for PHP, but lets say you want to learn AngularJS, or NodeJS. I found egghead.io very useful to learn. So my question is focused. Which E-Learning school do you consider better than tutsplus.com ?
 
5:51 AM
None. They all are shit.
 
=] sorry to hear about the missing caffeine.. no sarcasm btw, just a minor complement
 
@JoeWatkins \o/
 
@tereško I guess I will start elaborating more questions on stackoverflow. Right now watching the Clean Code conference and its awesome.
 
6:53 AM
@tereško Actually I really liked codeschool's course on Angular, it's pretty good.
As for Node, you should learn JavaScript (vanilla), learn it well, and NodeJS would follow naturally, the learning curve you drop dramatically.
 
heh .. I'm not entirely sure about the Angular itself =)
 
@tereško How so?
Too much bloat?
 
well .. Ember was complete crap, Knockout was a mess and GWT was an epic disaster
you could say that JS frameworks do not have the best of track records and I am not holding my breath for Angular
 
@tereško Actually, you should give it a try. It's pretty neat, reasonably scoped, and does its job well
I haven't tried Ember or Knockout, but I did hear the Ember is crap.
Haven't done much digging into Knockout
Angular was also developed by @ircmaxell Google
 
7:09 AM
Angular is great because of directives into html, we can enhance HTML5. But I found it very difficult library. Not as others.
 
@tereško They have a free sample here
@SecondRikudo I know a bit JavaScript and when I tried Node.JS I found it really strange. As in the workflow is totally different than PHP IMO. I could not really "get it" to a level where I could just write out of the top of my head without searching for tutorials
 
@HamZa I understand that feeling. I decided to stick with PHP even hearing many comments about NodeJS is ahead PHP.
 
@HamZa The major difference is that Node isn't a plugin you put on a server like Nginx or Apache, if you want a server, you need to program the server.
@BenjaminGruenbaum Daring
Voted
 
@rodvaN "Node.JS > PHP" is blatantly wrong
 
7:14 AM
@SecondRikudo Do you use NodeJS ahead PHP and Apache?
 
@rodvaN I'm currently learning how to use NodeJS, but I currently like it better than PHP, yes.
 
so how much is "<" ahead of PHP
 
It's much easier to do async with JS than it is with PHP, which sometimes is exactly what you need.
 
@HamZa Pretty much * > PHP for * > ASP classic
 
@rodvaN It depends on the purpose of your application.
@BenjaminGruenbaum Again, depends on the purpose.
 
7:15 AM
@rodvaN There's no such thing. It all depends what you need to achieve
 
If you want to setup a 10 minutes fire-and-forget website, you won't use NodeJS...
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum never tried ASP, not a fan of MS products
 
PHP is, most generally, the "good enough"
 
So which Database is better for Node.JS ? MongoDB ?
 
@rodvaN that's the trend
 
7:16 AM
Of course, not always, and not everything PHP does is crap (no @BenjaminGruenbaum, not everything PHP does is crap)
 
ASP was a big pain, mainly because Visual Studio Framework
 
@rodvaN Well... I guess there is no sense in being precise when you don't...
 
But if you need a server with the ability to push notifications for example, I don't think there's anything better than NodeJS today.
 
So for SaaS applications what do you think is better than PHP and CRON jobs?
 
@SecondRikudo Fwiw @HamZa yesterday I told someone to use PHP and @SecondRikudo told them to use Node :D
 
7:18 AM
:P
 
@rodvaN WTH does that even mean? How do you think someone can give you a straight answer to a question like that? The only answer you can get is "It depends"
 
I saw this popping up in my FB feed and my conclusion is that sometimes hebrew and arabic are almost similar
 
lol
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum didnt try ASP so long. I couldnt found so many answers to my code as when I search for PHP. ASP has few documentation.
 
@HamZa Sometimes, but very rarely.
 
7:19 AM
@rodvaN Not sure how to respond to that statement... ok?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum hehehe
 
The numbers are slightly similar, yes, "Ehad vs Wahad"
 
@SecondRikudo In arabic "ahad" also means 1
But most of the times we use "wahad" to tell express number one
 
"sh'ta'im" for 2
"shalosh" for 3
"arba" is very similar
 
I find the "ch" accent funny :)
(in ached)
 
@HamZa this looks like will require some time to read
 
> PLZ HELP PLZ IMMEDIATELY. I M IN NEED OF HELP, I HOPE SO, SOON I WILL GET MY ANSWER FOR THIS QUESTION. PLZ HELP ME
I'm not sure if he's trolling or serious.
 
@tereško don't worry, I'll check it out some day.
 
@HamZa Lol that's not legacy, you're assuming I even have classes XD
 
@HamZa my initial thought is that you will probably get more out of reading Fowler's "Refactoring" book
(it's much easier than PoEAA)
 
7:32 AM
good Monday morning
 
I see
 
Wait what? bash.org died?
 
finally
 
7:51 AM
@r3wt Or! Not!... Seriously, don't. — Second Rikudo 18 secs ago
 
Morning
 
Hi buddies
 
8:02 AM
any one know
how to print raw data using dot matrix printer using php application??
 
gooooooood mondays!
 
No it isn't
 
I'm slacking at home
 
how could we print a raw invoice using php application...
 
@Shamsudheen did you try google?
 
8:06 AM
<?php print('raw invoice'); ?>
 
I'm using html print option, I can't get it as raw data, it is unclear data in paper
@al
@AlmaDo This is not joke :(
 
yes. it isn't. try it. it will do the work
 
'unclear data' from an 'unclear question'.
 
I prefer to call that garbage in => garbage out
 
@AlmaDo I don't need to print text in brower or in console.. I just need to print in dotmatrix printer..
 
8:11 AM
oh really? that's such an obvious thing. How could we don't guess
 
Yuh .......Really........
 
I don't need to guess anything... Please replay only if you know that
 
@Shamsudheen Okay, now you're starting to get annoying.
 
also, epic.fail is already taken
 
8:20 AM
@tereško I've got madara.ninja so I'm satisfied :)
 
I got thejavascript.ninja not doing anything with it
room.thejavascript.ninja redirects to the JS room here.
 
user1804599
Benjamin Franklin
 
8:45 AM
mornings
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum How much did it cost .ninja domain?
 
Seriously? Pretty cheap!
 
I'm thinking .. should I really place the abstraction for Cookies in the model layer or should it actually be in the View, since it cookies are part of response ?
 
8:49 AM
$_[SESSION|COOKIE] --> same thing, you wouldn't do session stuff in the view
 
model gets my vote.
But I guess it also depends on how you use cookies...
 
hi all
 
it's kinda a part of a larger issue
 
I agree that sessions and cookies should be handled in the same way, they are both client-specific persistent data stores
 
Tbh I still haven't separated views and templates correctly
 
8:57 AM
I'm beginning to subscribe to @rdlowrey's methodology. Building more to principles than patterns. Mainly because I suck though. This way I only fail at one of those things ;)
 
He shaved his eyebrow. He has no principles.
 
lol
 
:P
 
9:13 AM
Hi everyone. I have a question on the DOMdocument class. I'm trying to return some modified HTML, I'm using using the saveHTML() method. The problem is, this return a DOCTYPE and other HTML I don't want. How do I get just the content?
 
actually you were right, we always have 2 RMs, but the trend seems to be that only one person stays active after the first stable is release.
the RMs for 5.5 were dsp and jpauli, jpauli stayed active, RMs for 5.6 are jpauli and me.
 
@tereško Do you think cookies should be used to store anything apart from a session id? If not, then I would put it into the response object (or whatever builds your http response)
 
The amount of times I write $reslut in my code instead of $result...
 
Freudian slip
 
@Dan First google result for "php domdocument savehtml without doctype":
19
Q: DOMDocument saveHTML without HTML wrapper?

Scott BI'n the function below, I'm struggling to output the DOMDocument without it appending the xml, html, body and p tag wrappers before the output of the content. The suggested fix... $postarray['post_content'] = $d->saveXML($d->getElementsByTagName('p')->item(0)); Only works when the content has ...

@Dan Are you on PHP 5.4?
/ Libxml 2.6
Could anyone suggest the nicest way to go about this? 3v4l. I was trying to not use extra loops and in_array(), and use nice php array methods instead
 
9:28 AM
@Jimbo I've just been reading that post. I tried the new flags but it's not changed anything for me.
I might try the "remove the node" approach.
 
@Jimbo what exactly are you trying to do?
 
@Patrick I'm looping through some data sets, basically I want to filter down to the data that exists in all datasets
Now saying that, perhaps I can use array_filter
If a set at the end of a loop contains a 6, but the previous sets don't, I don't want it in the result
 
@Jimbo why the for loop? if it is an arbitrary number, wouldn't it come as array or iterator that you can loop over?
 
@Patrick Yeah, in fact it's an array of objects calling a method on each that returns those numbers
So... foreach ($this->objs as $obj) { $obj->resolve(); // gives us numbers }
That's where I need to filter down to ones that exist only in all objs via resolve()
 
so resolve gives you an array of numbers?
 
9:35 AM
Yep
 
still... what problem are you trying to solve with this?
 
I have a RuleSet object that comprises of Rule objects. Each Rule is responsible for getting it's own data (those numbers), and returning it with a resolve() method that the RuleInterface declares.
The RuleSet::resolve method needs to loop around it's held Rules ($this->rules), and return at the end only those numbers that exist in each rule
It's a filter
My architecture / solution is not incorrect. I'm merely looking for a nice solution using php's array_* methods if possible
 
tbh there's no way to do that that isn't O(scary)
 
Is O(n^(3/2)) scary?
 
@DaveRandom This worked great, I see how... very simple, thanks :-)
I knew it was intersect
Duhhh
 
9:45 AM
There's also 3v4l.org/5dY7r @Jimbo which is essentially a different way to write the exact same thing. Personally I find the foreach more readable
@bwoebi Alright, I shall rephrase that as "there are no clever shortcuts you can take"
 
@DaveRandom I was looking for the latter solution originally, haven't used array_reduce() before... but the former is much nicer
 
@DaveRandom why the class?
isn't an array enough?
 
@FlorianMargaine He's an object whore
 
I'd rather lower the amount of lynching the future dev will want to do when he sees my code :-)
 
9:48 AM
@FlorianMargaine Because that reflects @Jimbo's actual use case
15 mins ago, by Jimbo
So... foreach ($this->objs as $obj) { $obj->resolve(); // gives us numbers }
 
oh, my bad
 
:D
 
:-P
@Danack I'd prefer it as a namespace
 
@DaveRandom Lightning talks at phpnw next week, I might give one
 
@Jimbo Unless you are actually writing the whole thing in a functional style, I'm not a fan of random bits of functional code littering an otherwise largely imperative codebase.
Constructs like that have their place, but using them to make yourself feel clever is not a good reason :-P
@Jimbo Oh yeh I'm going to try and make it down this month, I think I can actually do it this time
 
9:52 AM
Yay
I'm thinking design patterns: adapter, observer, decorator, visitor and maybe another one. Only get 6 minutes. Will show how to remove in-line logging with observer / decorator, for example
 
user1804599
Don't think in design patterns.
 
user1804599
Never think in design patterns.
 
user1804599
If they occur then that is only coincidentally.
 
@rightfold Yeh but the point here is for a quick talk, not thinking about designing specific code
 
Of course
It's something to be aware of
But actually, thinking in concepts / patterns helps when designing your code
 
9:59 AM
@rightfold I don't think "thinking in design patterns" is always bad.
 
Patterns are just re-usable solutions to common problems, right. So when designing your classes, you do it with these in mind
@BenjaminGruenbaum Right, "thinking in design patterns" is better than not thinking when doing this at all :-)
 

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