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Dbz
12:00 AM
Thanks @NikiC , @edorian, and @LeviMorrison for the help!
 
@edorian P = Premature optimization? Lame too
@Dbz Thanks for the nice question ;)
 
Dbz
=] anytime*
 
Tek
@Anyone Trying to get some values of an XML file but there are some inconsistencies in the file (small example but exactly like this one codepad.viper-7.com/2njoik ). How can I avoid this?
 
Tek
@stevether But you see, description 3 needs to be on song 3 ;)
 
12:09 AM
Yeah, just noticed.
 
Tek
Then again, I don't think I can do it that way. I would love to use $domnode->nextsibling but that won't always get me <title> since the fields can be out of place at times
 
My only experience with XML and PHP is with SimpleXML so codepad.viper-7.com/IfEPBU
 
Tek
@stevether I would use it except it doesn't have getAttribute
 
Dbz
I got a bad gateway on viper-7.com, is there something I can do about that?
 
Tek
12:24 AM
@stevether Oh man. Awesome. I was really close too! But I still wouldn't have figured it out. Let me try it out on the bigger XML file. Thanks : )
 
You can get rid of that variable too codepad.viper-7.com/9hH1wZ
 
Dbz
Well, I'm off! Thanks for all of the help guys
 
@Dbz pce holmes
@Tek There should probably be an isset() or empty() in that ternary though.
 
Tek
@stevether Howcome? Considering it seems to work fine.
 
@Tek Honestly I'm not sure. Just sounds like a good idea.
Though you could use the empty() to check if the tag exists but is empty.
 
Tek
12:32 AM
@stevether I see the big difference between making it work is that foreach keeps track of the actual iteration count internally
 
Yes. You don't necessarily need to count how many there are, just iterate through them.
 
Tek
@stevether Well, thank you very much for your help. :)
 
@Tek It's what I do.
Not usually.
Stack exchange offline? =[
 
Tek
Yep.
: (
 
12:47 AM
Right as I hit sumbit on an answer too.
 
Tek
1:01 AM
lol!
 
Sigh; you know it is going to be a long night when the **first step** in your upgrade plan causes a network-wide outage...
 
I guess it's cool that chat still works?
 
Tek
Deffo.
 
outaged!
 
Looks like it's back
 
Tek
1:08 AM
Yeh
 
1:27 AM
@ircmaxell @NikiC What do you think about an interface Sortable? Defines sort, and maybe reverse sort. Takes 1 function as a parameter.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:30 AM
@LeviMorrison Sure, I like that (in general, not just in our context)
 
2:43 AM
@ircmaxell I submitted a small change to the bootstrap.
I got rid of the var_dump and defined DIRECTORY_SEPERATOR to '/' if it isn't defined.
Also, I found a use of OutOfRangeException in the current Spl that appears to be valid.
in recursive tree iterator
If 0 > $part or $part > 5;
 
@LeviMorrison it is always defined, but you don't need to use it
 
@ircmaxell It isn't defined for me when I use the cli
 
@LeviMorrison cause you're spelling it wrong: DIRECTORY_SEPARATOR is what it should be
but you don't need it, just use /
 
DOH!
lol
If it's on Windows, it won't crash? I know it used to.
 
No
it works 100% (which is why I don't use D_S). That boostrap has been used in my code for years without problem across many many platforms ;-)
 
2:49 AM
Okay.
As soon as I find out how, I'll roll that back.
I know I could just change it to what it I was.
But I want to figure out git a bit more.
 
nice
ok, signing off for tonight
 
Eh, that wasn't too bad. :)
G'night
 
3:22 AM
hi
 
@Petah Hello.
 
4:13 AM
Just got through refactoring one 39 line method into 3 methods (17, 5, 5). I love when you get rid of duplication
 
@CharlesSprayberry :) Very nice
@CharlesSprayberry Have you been following the data-structures work I've been doing with @NikiC and @ircmaxell ?
 
@LeviMorrison There's still some duplication going on with the 2 5-liners but I'd have to do some awful finagling and just not worth it
@LeviMorrison I have. I'm actually very interested to see how that comes out. I resorted to building my own very simple data structures for my project just because SPL just looked so...much more than what I really wanted
 
@CharlesSprayberry More? for most of us it is lacking :)
@CharlesSprayberry Some duplication in 5 lines is probably okay :)
 
@LeviMorrison I guess I just haven't dug deep enough to need a lot of the things that the SPL interfaces provide
@LeviMorrison I actually like the way Java deals with data structures
 
@CharlesSprayberry For the common ones, I agree.
Our version is a lot more Java-like :)
But it definitely doesn't hold Java's hand.
 
4:21 AM
Well PHP is not Java
I was actually looking at Ruby and Python to broaden my horizons some more
But its really hard for me to get into a non-curly brace language
 
lol
I'm also fond of curly-brace languages. Whitespace now has meaning? o.0
 
I think this summer I'm gonna start looking at C. It would be nice to understand more of what's going on with C
Yea, I don't like that at all
How I format my code shouldn't impact how the program performs
 
@CharlesSprayberry C is a great one to learn.
I'm not great with it, but I've built several smaller projects out of it.
 
Granted, after looking at some code from fellow students in my programming & logic I course this year I could understand the appeal behind python...
 
@CharlesSprayberry What do you mean?
 
4:24 AM
@LeviMorrison It was formatted absolutely, horrifyingly ugly
I mean...really really really bad
 
@CharlesSprayberry Then they'd probably hate python.
 
No indenting structure followed, no variable naming enforced, all kinds of inconsistencies
But at least the final result would be more pleasing to read.. god it was awful
 
Sounds like they need to read Code Complete :)
 
This class was kind of not advanced enough for me at this point. I mean, we didn't even start talking about polymorphism or even what a protected member is until the very end of the course
 
Yeah, you need something better :)
Honestly, read Code Complete. You'll get a somewhat language agnostic version of good programming practices.
One of my university courses used it.
 
4:27 AM
@LeviMorrison I've started reading Code Complete. However, some of the terminology and ideas behind it are somewhat foreign to me. I've never coded with other people, even when I did it "professionally"
 
@CharlesSprayberry Just look up unfamiliar terms on Wikipedia :)
 
I thorougly enjoyed Clean Code and want to tread The Clean Coder
@LeviMorrison It is more the concepts it is just hard for me to imagine working with somebody else on a development project.
@LeviMorrison I did have a question for you. About the autoloading class I linked yesterday. You mentioned that I should manually load the autoloader in the same file I declared the constants?
 
@CharlesSprayberry Most likely, yes.
 
@LeviMorrison Could you clarify what you mean by that. I should bring the autoloading function out of the class and have it directly in the file?
 
@CharlesSprayberry I didn't mean that. I just meant that it should be called there.
 
4:34 AM
@LeviMorrison So instantiating the class and invoking the method in the same file that the constants are defined is sufficient?
 
@CharlesSprayberry Theoretically, yes.
 
I would prefer I didn't have the global constants at all
But it's a file directory and that winds up touching a lot of different classes
 
posted on December 18, 2011 by Mayflower Blog - PHP

A couple of weeks ago, I was attending a three-day workshop for agile developer skills. The workshop was split into five topics: Colaboration, Refactoring, Design & Architecture, Continious Integration and Test Driven Development. Especially the session about Test Driven Development was very interesting. Although I know the principles of TDD I was really impressed by the demonstration of

posted on December 19, 2011 by PHP Advent

The rise of cloud computing over the past few years has been incredible. Unfortunately, many still do not see the interest or do not comprehend its importance. This is not a post about cloud computing and its benefits, but rather a refresher about understanding some basic rules of scalability and how to get started with building scalable apps while keeping in mind that most people and compani

posted on December 20, 2011 by PHP Advent

I don’t know exactly when it was that I started to resent the people I was writing code for, but it was a sure sign that I was feeling burned out. For ten years, I’d been working as a development resource in design and marketing agencies, then at Yahoo, and finally within my own client-services company. At some point along the way, I’d lost touch with the people using the software I was creatin

posted on December 20, 2011 by Hasin Hayder

posted on December 20, 2011 by Nelmio

In the first part of this post I introduced Composer & Packagist. If you are not familiar with them please read part 1 first. Impact In this second part I would like to talk about a few things Composer could do for you, and the PHP community at large, once it is broadly adopted. Common APIs and Shared Interfaces You may have noticed that quite a lot of people are talking of and asking f

posted on December 21, 2011 by PHP Advent

As any developer can tell you, the way we write apps has changed dramatically over the past year. It’s been amazing to see how the quality of code being written has changed, too. Developers are no longer isolated creatures — code sharing has become a standard practice. Developers write helpful tools or apps and immediately want to share them with the world. They write blog posts and include a l

posted on December 21, 2011 by Mayflower Blog - PHP

Last week I had the chance to attend an Agile Developer Skills Workshop in Berlin. The 3 day workshop is, next to a Scrum Master or PO Certification, a prerequisite for the Certified Scrum Developer, short CSD. I was very excited about the ADS workshop and I found it an intersting approach to hold a workshop which focusses on developers rather than on the management side of scrum.

posted on December 21, 2011 by Stefan Koopmanschap

What to do when you want to migrate to Symfony2, but can't invest the time into rewriting your whole application at once? I get this questions sometimes, and I've asked myself as well for some time already. Talking to other people, I found I was not the only person struggling with this issue. Wrapping Symfony2 around your old application is one option, and I've found this works well in some sit

posted on December 22, 2011 by Mike Willbanks

I’ve been building all sorts of RPM’s lately, from vim 7.3 to mirroring the zend server repository and building pecl extensions. In the PHP world, one might ask why not just build it from source? Well, an RPM IS built from source and then distributed to many servers – we can ensure that we have the same packages on each, we can maintain the same versions and if you’ve read my previous post on

posted on December 22, 2011 by PHP Advent

I’m both a front- and back-end developer, and, at edgeofmyseat.com, we mainly work on projects where we get to control the full stack — from server configuration, through PHP and the database, to the front-end markup, CSS, and JavaScript. However, we also sometimes work on projects where we are developing the front end only, so we get to feel the pain of spending time carefully constructing sem

 
4:57 AM
hi gm all
 
 
1 hour later…
6:04 AM
Hi guys, could anybody tell me what's wrong with this statement? INSERT INTO dreams (locations, people, desc) VALUES ('Home','Me and You','You punched me')
 
@PeteHerbertPenito What's the error?
 
@Levi: You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near 'desc) VALUES ('Home','Me and You','You punched me')'
 
yep
` desc `
or dreams.desc
 
oh right! for descending
Thank you very much guys, that was the problem, I fixed it by changing the column name, cheers!
 
6:36 AM
@ircmaxell I implemented Set with HashSet. I'm fairly tired and my wife was asking me lots of questions when I wrote it, so it's probably rough. Feel free to clean up anything. Cheers!
 
morning , console cowboys
 
hi
all
 
@ircmaxell I just realize we could also store resources. They just wouldn't be serializable.
 
is any function available in js to add or remove www in url automatically?
 
@manan probably not. It wouldn't be hard, though.
 
6:47 AM
( and if you dont get the cowboy reference , then you have no place here )
 
@tereško if you don't mind can i ask who is cowboy
 
please , go and read Neuromancer .. then you might get it
 
Best PHP hashing algorithm I've found yet (I don't mean for security, just a unique identifier): http://viper-7.com/NBdncE
It works because PHP uses strings to do maps. It works nicely if that's the use-case.
 
7:04 AM
how to make object tag clickable ?
How can I link an embedded flash object? I need it to work like an image enclosed in <a> tags. When the user clicks to on the flash object I need them to navigate to a new url.
can anyone help ?
 
7:48 AM
hello i want to do pagination in php
in that select and how many records to be display per page like 5,10,15
select 5
     10
Show
<select name="results_page" onChange="this.form.submit();">
<option value="5" NO >5</option>
<option value="10" NO >10</option>
<option value="20" SELECTED >20</option>
<option value="50" NO >50</option>
</select> results per page
 
8:32 AM
<a href="www.google.com" ><object width="500" height="300" data="/attached_images/ball.swf" style="z-index: 3; display: inline;"></object></a>
anchor tag link not working
can anyone help?
??
 
@LeviMorrison Except that the return hash isn't same length, printable, comparable between resets and funny things like that :) sha1(serialize($input)); beats that in every aspect doesn't it? :)
 
 
2 hours later…
10:24 AM
posted on December 23, 2011 by Henri Bergius

I'm happy to announce that we were able to release the first stable version of the Midgard2 PHPCR provider yesterday. Simply put, PHPCR is the future of Midgard's PHP API. Instead of having our own repository APIs, we follow the well-documented and tested PHP Content Repository specification. This allows much better compatibility with other projects, and for example the possibility to choose

posted on December 23, 2011 by Internet Super Hero

A single MySQL server is a single point of failure. A single MySQL server can only be scaled vertically by increasing hardware size, which has its limits. That’s two good reasons to migrate from a single MySQL server to a cluster of MySQL servers. However, in cloudy white christmas times, few appreciate the extra work that using a cluster causes. For example, MySQL connections must be load ba

 
10:43 AM
morning
 
morning
 
Hiho
 
Everyone having a productive day?
 
Jep :D Just stood up (11:30) :)
 
Finally got around to creating a .phar out of something. Wanted to do that for quite some time but never got around to it
 
10:48 AM
hehe, I never really had a need to, but then i've never really looked into the point behind them
 
@edorian distiller?
 
yeah. And some internal tools before that
 
did you have any further ideas for STUPID?
 
Singleton (+), Tight Coupling (~), UntestedButFinshed (-), P, I, D
was the last state?
 
UntestedButFinshed => Untested / Untestable
UntestedButFinished lookes strange :P
 
10:57 AM
I don't have any nice idea for the other stuff
 
P could be Premature Optimization (aka '' vs ""), but that is not nice
 
Nice one
 
Good Morning
 
Singleton, Tight Coupling, Untested, Premature Optimization, I, D
Morning
 
ID is anti-DI ^^
@Donut morning donut
 
11:01 AM
Interface overuse doesn't fit the theme and requires to much context
 
Hi @NikiC
 
@NikiC incomplete comments?
It's a long shot
 
Indescriptive naming?
 
D - duplication (aka WET not DRY)
I - Insecure?
 
even fits in a tweet :)
Singleton, Tight Coupling, Untested, Premature Optimization, In-descriptive Naming, Duplication
@NikiC Like it?
@JamesButler Also nice
 
11:10 AM
hi,
I have an interesting problem,
I can't use include, require_once..etc functions
It doesnt matter how many times I try. (windows platform)
My includes:
require_once $_SERVER['DOCUMENT_ROOT'].'\headerfoot.php';
require_once $_SERVER['DOCUMENT_ROOT'].'\classes\sql.php';
Error:
Warning: include(../sqlinfo.php) [function.include]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in C:\xampp\htdocs\classes\sql.php on line 7
 
@edorian Not sure about I yet
 
I tried to change the document path in apache
Tried to use: ini_set('include_path', 'C:\xampp\htdocs');
I rly dont know what the problem is
 
I don't really understand why people started using $_SERVER['DOCUMENT_ROOT']; for require statements. Thats a new one that spawned not to long ago it seems
@appl3r Use __DIR__ and the relative path between the files
 
I tried to fix the problem with doc.root
 
Don't rely on that variable
 
11:12 AM
@edorian Nah, it's not new ;)
 
What exactly DIR is ?
DIR
 "__DIR__" :D
hm
 
\\_\\_DIR\\_\\_
 
hello
can I make table with 1st line would have columns 30% and 70% and 2nd line would have columns 50% and 50%
 
@NikiC It's not new? I thought I've seen all PHP 4 sins already
 
11:17 AM
So what about I ? I don't like indescriptive naming
 
Hi to all :)
 
There is even someone using that in the PHPdocs saying that
 
Good time everyone !
 
@Olli Not with a HTML <table>
 
Hi @Luca @OmeidHerat
 
11:18 AM
Hey @Donut , how are you ?
are you still a @Donut ? :P
 
@NikiC One of my pet peeves but i see that it's not optimal
 
How you decide things between the User Object and the User Model ?
 
@edorian how then ?
 
@OmeidHerat I have to use this name until Jan 13.
:(
 
I used __DIR__,
nothing changed
same error,
and __DIR__ returns the correct directory path (echo __DIR__)
 
11:20 AM
@Donut Oh, not too long :)
 
Well the error says "include" and the code you showed us only has two require_once statements
Can't guess what the other code looks like :)
 
@OmeidHerat I don't like it
 
sometimes the only option is wait.
 
@Olli Not really sure. Two tables, divs, cellspacing hacks maybe
 
lxr.php.net/opengrok/diff/PHP_5_3/ext/standard/… Seems like dmitry introduced the array_walk_recursive corruption.
 
11:21 AM
but its not my fault, i dont understand this, i used req.once, but gives include warning,
 
ok
 
i and this code worked once
 
Did anyone saw my question ?
 
Im sure my problem has something to do with Apache and php config
that's why i started to use ini_set include path,
 
@OmeidHerat That really old one? stackoverflow.com/questions/5882936/…
stalking
Oh, the one in the chat :)
8 mins ago, by Omeid Herat
How you decide things between the User Object and the User Model ?
 
11:27 AM
@edorian Yeah the one on that chat :)
yup
 
You can't because there are about 42 definitions for "Model" in the php community and that word has lost all meaning if you don't give it context
 
Model as in MVC.
but yeah still there is lots of MVC favors.
 
Still 38 meanings left :P
 
hi could someone look jsfiddle.net/dSnXs
why isn't it working
 
@edorian Still 43 definitions left would be more appropriate :P
 
11:28 AM
@Omeid, just look at something like CodeIgniter, dozens of ways to do the model there.
 
first line should have: 70% & 30% 2nd line should: 50% & 50%
 
@olli, that won't work with a regular table. Except in tcpdf which actually does let different rows have different column sizes.
 
@NikiC +1
 
@david could you still see it and how fix
 
@OmeidHerat So what I wanted to know: What is your "model"? and what is your "user object" ?
 
11:31 AM
@OmeidHerat I think for MVC the best pattern is an ActiveRecord pattern closer to Ruby on Rails. Similar to DataMapper in CodeIgniter, although I just rolled my own ActiveRecord class to allows for truer Object-Relational-Mapping between MySQL and PHP objects.
 
So let me come with a simple question: say For method New(); does User object has to throw exception if something goes wrong or the model ? or maybe even take care of that in controller ? @NikiC @edorian
 
@Olli, like @edo
 
Model (noun): anything that isn't a view or a controller (sometimes). More generally described as any instantiation of a class. (Tongue in cheek definition before anyone has a go)
 
oops
 
@OmeidHerat Your model is your user object
 
11:32 AM
@olli, like @edorian said, you'll have to use two tables with different spacing.
 
@OmeidHerat A MVC model has nothing to do with data storage except use are using one those ugly "your model is the data" approaches
 
@davidethell Indeed, but this HTTP has made things weird, you really can't have a real MVC.
 
it´s too difficult
isn't there easier way
 
@edorian So that is why I am going to have a User Object :)
 
@OmeidHerat really? Why?
 
11:33 AM
So the question is where to you put the validation/buisness rules?
Those go into your applications "models". The buisness objects. The stuff that doesn't know about MVC or how the application is delivered at all
 
@edorian, data validation goes in the models, but business rules should be in the controller shouldn't they?
 
@edorian if I only could ask that question myself.
@edorian Thanks heaps.
 
@OmeidHerat Your terminology is making it really hard for me to describe what I'm trying to say. Everything is an object :)
 
@davidethell - nope, skinny controllers!
 
@JamesButler, but if you put too much business logic in your models won't that restrict reuse of your models for other projects that use the same data but different business logic?
 
11:36 AM
@davidethell No.. no please no.. not at all..
 
@edorian true that, What would be the right term for the UserObject (one that has a database connection not the User Model) ?
 
@davidethell if you need to put business logic somewhere thats not your models, just create an extra layer above them (i.e. some sort of 'manager' or just general higher level 'models')
 
A proper answer would have to be a lot longer and as I'm going to be eating in ~5 minutes i just say:
MVC is not your application. It's just how you talk to the web. Buisness rules should not be anywhere in those parts. Nor should persistence if you can help it at all
 
@JamesButler ok I'm with you.
@edorian so more like how Cairngorm separates things in Flash Builder if you've ever used that as a framework.
 
@OmeidHerat The things that talk to the database are the objects related to persistence stuff. If you are using a DataMapper patterns the objects are persistance agnostic. If you are using something completly broken and hurtful like Active Records you have an extra layer of MixedTogether buisness and persistence logic mess
 
11:39 AM
The controller ideally doesn't have any understanding of the objects or any rules that govern their operation, martinfowler.com/eaaCatalog/frontController.html - the controller should just concern itself with the HTTP request, and leave the heavy lifting to other classes
 
I don't know what to call those.. "Old PHP Framework / RoR style MVC models" maybe. "Broken" is shorter and I use it more often
 
On a side note, does anyone think that MVC isn't actually that good a fit for web stuff anymore? Especially with the profiligation of javascript and ajax heavy sites and single page apps
 
@JamesButler VC is still a fine approach. People start to see that the other stuff should be delivery agnostic
"People" as in "Second/Third generation frameworks"
 
@JamesButler what are you doing in place of MVC?
 
Thanks to fowler and unclebob preaching that heavily I'd say
 
11:43 AM
@JamesButler Single page app ?
 
@OmeidHerat Btw. was stackoverflow.com/questions/5882936/… the right answer to that? Else I delete it again or something :)
Off for food. Later :)
 
@edorian I will have a look, last time I used it wasn't showing the PHP buffer live, but let me see.
 
Works for me with 7.0.x really off now
 
7.0.1 here.
 
Wait, what?! Super MVC Framework is not hip and trendy anymore?!?!?
 
11:50 AM
@ChristianSciberras right, just when we get the hang of MVC it's out to dry.
 
@davidethell No one ever got the hang of it exactly because it's useless bloat.
 
@JamesButler Interesting (reading fowler). thanks for the link.
 
@edorian I suppose (I'm just trying to chase the one pattern to rule them all dream)
@davidethell I'm still doing MVC (in some capacity), but it doesn't always feel such a good fit, especially now i'm getting more involved with mobile stuff.
@OmeidHerat - see this for a good explantion - better than i can give here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-page_application
 
@davidethell , i gout think that using php frameworks you were learning MVC , then you are somewhat stupid
 
@ChristianSciberras unless you're Howard Lewis Ship
@tereško well, my major use of MVC is in the Java world where I do about half my programming.
 
11:52 AM
@davidethell Huh? Who's that?
 
i predict MVC will have a renaissance when websockets are standardized and widely available. not sure php will play a big part in it though.
 
@JamesButler That term is not correct IMHO in the context that we are talking. more correctly that will be Single View Application.
 
@ChristianSciberras creator of Tapestry tapestry.apache.org
 
OMG, another framework?! I gotta use it quick.
In my next big business hit.
 
@JamesButler A single page application is not necessarily a single Script file and never ever should be unless it's really a single page website not an application.
 
11:54 AM
@ChristianSciberras Tapestry has been around for a while and if you've ever used it extensively you'll know how powerful it is in creating Java webapps compared to something bloated like Struts.
 
On the other hand, it's the first time I hard someone describe Java technology as fast. Or maybe I was missing the sarcasm.
 
@OmeidHerat I meant single page from the browser point of view, it should of course still have a nicely broken out code base at the backend, but the question is, do views and controllers map well to it? (or as well as they did to 'old-skool' sites)
 
@ChristianSciberras I didn't say fast, just powerful.
 
@JamesButler well, that Single Page thing is more of a Design Concept and it really doesn't has much to do with MVC.
 
@Gordon I'm (ab)using web sockets a fair bit with my nodejs mucking about, but i'm still not sure how best to make it fit with MVC
@OmeidHerat Yes, you're right thats it separate layer to MVC, but the question is how to make MVC serve up content for it while maintaining a good backend design. Or do we use something else for it? (I am leaning to towards the latter)
 
11:58 AM
ok, so all of you in this MVC discussion, for your PHP work what is your framework of choice that best fits what you see as the "right way" to do things?
 
@davidethell It's not the best, but I am generally a Zend chap, also symfony2 works for me too
 
@davidethell it depends that if I need a full blown FW like Zend or a Full stack like symfony2 or sometimes it's like Do I really need one ?
 
@OmeidHerat @davidethell good point, although i still like having the library components to use from both those Frameworks, even if i don't use their full MVC stack (or any of it)
 
Just like a carpenter doesn't has an ultimate tool to that does-everything and instead they have the right tools for right things, like a saw to cut, a sand to smothin up things. There is no ultimate language or framework to do it all ! you need to finde the right tool.
@JamesButler I am not sure if it's possible to use any Library component from Symfony2 it's a Full stack, like Take it all or none.
 
@davidethell Indeed you didn't. They did.
@davidethell Any one which doesn't feature "MVC" in it's title is a good start.
 
12:04 PM
@ChristianSciberras Gotcha. Well, if you mean development speed it's definitely fast. Performance? not so sure.
 
@OmeidHerat oopps, I meant symphony 1 compenents
 
Anyone which doesn't feature MVC at it's core, is a candidate.
 
@ChristianSciberras +1
I looked at Zend and liked what I saw, but my customers were leaning toward CodeIgniter and I've been fairly happy with it.
 
Arrgghhh CodeIgniter is the framework from hell, ugly ugly ugly... (sorry had to get that of my chest)
 
Excuse my bluntness, but when ever customers decide on things Like Framework or Language outside the options that the developer provide. It's Developers Mistake.
 
12:08 PM
@davidethell , you just now confirmed that you are stupid
 
@tereško ;-) not the first time I've been called that or worse.
 
@tereško Harsh :| btw Hi :)
 
@OmeidHerat Maybe this will help you understand... My customer is also a development shop. I'm hired as an extra programmer so the decision wasn't ultimately mine. I was able to give input on different frameworks, but they chose what they decided fit best for their team. So I had to decide to work for the money using their choice or go find another contract.
... I chose the money. :)
?stupid?
 
@davidethell well then it's not your Customer, it's your Office or your developing team.
 
@OmeidHerat Well, possibly. They are just one of many clients I have. They just happen to also be a dev shop. I actually have several customers like this and some for whom I'm the sole developer. So whatever name you call them is fine. They pay me to program.
That said, I do find CodeIgniter easy enough to use. A little different than the way I do things in the Java world, but it works.
@tereško BTW, I'm not "learning" MVC. I've been programming this way for more than 8 years now in Java, PHP, Oracle/PLSQL, Objective-C, etc. I'm just interested in how people in the PHP world decide to "fit" MVC into their work since it's not a one size fits all paradigm.
 
12:24 PM
i shudder to think how your code looks
 
@tereško Definitely not as good as yours.
 
If you are going to use Twig to render views, would you Pass it by reference to View or instantiate it inside view ?
 
hmm, pass by reference (disclaimer, i have never used twig)
 
in general passing in would be a better way , but "pass it from where" ?
 
Bootstrap ?
or controller (doesn't sound quite good though) ?
 
12:31 PM
its quite tricky to do it from bootstrap
 
through, cause you have to pass it through multiple levels.
 
emm ... sounds like you are doing the DI a bit wrong
 
but I think I will just do it inside, that way i am sure if View is set to JSON or anything else like raw I don't do the over head of twig.
 
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