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12:03 AM
@Rapptz what's a PoC? Prisoner of C?
 
Person/People of Colour
Chat broke for me.
 
@Rapptz context?
 
starboard, it's the Django PR
all of the profile pictures look like people from tumblr
tbh I think this got raided
 
idk if it's because English isn't my native language, but I don't see how calling things master/slave is offensive? Are male/female plugs sexist?
 
It's over-sensitive political correctness with a bit of white guilt.
 
12:09 AM
better be careful :)
 
Black people were slaves back then and white people were the master so people think they're clever by being offended over anything related to those two terms.
 
@StackedCrooked don't wanna get suspended like @DeadMG :p
 
@DeadMG And, now, so have I :D
 
People in jail per 100k people US 710 Chile 266 Mexico 210 Turkey 179 UK 147 Canada 118 Sweden 67 Japan 51 Iceland 47 http://t.co/drdKQoZsGr
intredasting
 
@Rapptz Those are known troll accounts. Read the comments.
 
12:15 AM
9 mins ago, by Rapptz
tbh I think this got raided
 
> We cannot FORCE a cpu to conform to any architecture but rather let it self identify. Just because you're running something on an arduino doesn't mean it can't be an otherkin Xeon with a dozen 64-bit registers and PAE and it would be discriminatory for you to hand it ARM assembly. Instead, C+= is inHERpreted, which fosters communication, itself a strong female trait.
haha
funny until it committed hypocrisy at the end
 
Feminist Software Foundation is a 4chan troll account from /g/ to make fun of tumblr.
 
> Instead of "running" a program, which implies thin privilege and pressure to "work out", programs are "given birth". After birth, a program rolls for a 40% chance of executing literally as the code is written, 40% of being "psychoanalytically incompatible", and 40% of executing by a metaphorical epistemology the order of the functions found in main().
\o/
check your privilege, programs
 
3x 40% = 120%
those are russian odds
 
12:18 AM
6.4% actually.
 
> I admit it may be more symbolic than practical change. But it's a symbol that lets people know where django stands.
where django stands on what..slavery?
 
Welp all food places are closed
That ain't good
 
it's 2:24. you were gonna go get food now? :v
 
I just woke up
 
lol
@CatPlusPlus so now I have a makefile which generates my ninja file :3
 
12:26 AM
Good job
 
you people are psychos.
:<
 
what? :(
 
I never got around to eating my pizza
Hope it'll be okay tomorrow evening :/
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit you shouldn't have said that. now cat's gonna steal your pizza
 
@melak47 that's what reminded me :/
it's in the box in the microwave
waiting
but i'm still kinda full from the kebab and it's also 1.30am and I have an early start
 
12:30 AM
Do you eat your pizza cold?
 
why would he put it in the microwave
 
My microwave serves as a food storage too :v
 
oh no, it's @AlexM.! gotta bail. (also work later)
 
huh
what happened
I just married someone ten years older than me
 
congratz
 
12:40 AM
Maybe I'll just go back to sleep
 
@StackedCrooked thankies, it was a very useful marriage
I was in need of one extra ship to attach to my main convoy and I got one for free via the wife
2
 
good wife
 
ain't nothing like a marriage that improves your economical situation
yup
 
I have pasta and ketchup
Maybe if I just boil everything it'll be enough to last 8 hours
 
@Rapptz no never. i don't even like to reheat it -.-
nn
 
12:45 AM
ew
 
@AlexM. What's that?
 
I used to play the 2nd (the third is really an expansion pack) a lot as a kid, and I decided to give it a go again
now I'm once again hooked on trying to optimize automatic trade routes
the micromanagement you can get into is scary at times lol
man time flies too fast
I have to sleep again
cya
 
@CatPlusPlus don't
also good night lounge
 
@Jefffrey I WILL
 
1:00 AM
pasta and ketchup sounds disgusting
 
1:14 AM
Everything tastes better with ketchup
 
Hi everyone.
Finally enough reputation to do something on this website
@AlexM. What are you playing?
 
1:50 AM
Just learned that a AKB48 member was stabbed during handshake meeting.
No fatal wounds though.
 
@StackedCrooked o.O angry fan?
 
I suppose.
Or more like a psycho.
He even brought a saw.
 
Oh, yeah, prob psycho
 
> Rina Kawaei, 19, and Anna Iriyama, 18, both broke bones in their right hands and received cuts on their arms and heads caused by the 50-centimetre saw at the event in Iwate in northern Japan.
I'll need to google that.
Looks good :D
 
2:44 AM
@StackedCrooked I wonder how he managed to get the saw that close without looking suspicious.
 
maybe he pretended that he wanted it signed :P
 
3:24 AM
Cppcon is a new thing right?
I don't remember it existing before Cppcon 2014
 
4:01 AM
> Module sux *S*mall, *U*ncomplicated *X*ML.
 
4:57 AM
@Coolen you don't need rep to answer questions.
 
@JerryCoffin How ya been? Its been ages :)
 
@GamesBrainiac Pretty fair--busy Memorial Day weekend though. Need a second weekend to recover from the first... :-)
 
5:13 AM
@JerryCoffin Oh, well hope the even went well. And yea, I'm taking time to rest as well :)
 
5:44 AM
morning
 
6:29 AM
what is this, Lounge<Zzz>?
 
Yup
 
@melak47 Lounge<ZzTop>
 
morning
 
Lounge<Zz++> is a stack/queue for sleeping people?
 
Why can't we vote to move to Code Review
@melak47 lazy bs!
@Borgleader wow
 
6:47 AM
Woo normal hour I can go eat something
 
Xeo
7:17 AM
@Rapptz It's the new GoingNative, basically
just bigger
 
lol
> We should accommodate that some vendors, such as Microsoft, feel they must be able to break the standard library ABI on every major release (see next section).
We should accommodate that some vendors, such as GCC, feel they must not break the standard library ABI (see next section).
 
Called out.
 
@Jefffrey How is this NSFW?
 
the link in the answer is
 
7:26 AM
What about it?
 
@Rapptz A woman milking a cow is probably offensive to vegans.
 
@FredOverflow and a guy milking a cow isn't?
 
Jeffrey might be Amish or Mormon.
 
@ScottW Wait, isn't that when the Titanic sank? I smell conspiracy.
 
I don't see how a feminist could be offended by a woman milking a cow ...
well, you can't milk a cow in the kitchen
 
7:37 AM
At least that actually has potential of being NSFW. Unlike Jeffrey's link.
 
@chmod711telkitty You can if the kitchen is big.
@chmod711telkitty Is that a woman or a cow?
 
Cow woman.
 
Cowomanga!
 
@FredOverflow depends ... does ... the creature look very milkable?
 
It's not like women aren't milkable.
 
7:40 AM
Tag dat mothafuka with every language you can come up with... except the one you are actually using.
2
 
I can see how this lounge could possibly be shut down because of this milking talk ... but go on ...
 
@Jefffrey Astonishing.
 
@Rapptz reading it now. Is he suggesting compilers ship with two implementations of the std lib? :|
 
@ScottW You eat cereal at the end of the day? People normally eat it for breakfast.
 
@jalf I think he's suggesting wrapping the stdlib in extern "abi" blocks.
 
7:43 AM
@FredOverflow that's kinky ... not the cereal part ...
 
@Rapptz sure, but inside a single application, one std::vector might refer to a different type than anoher std::vector then
at least that would be caught at link time, but it still seems icky
 
lol are you still talking about the woman milking the cow
 
morning
 
When I read it, it seemed like he was encouraging using std::abi and std:: to be the same thing but allowed implementations to have differences.
TBH, I didn't really like the proposal.
It might be good though, iunno.
 
Yeah, I haven't read it all yet, but extern "abi" seems nice, but a solution in search of a problem (that part of the abi is pretty stable on major compilers already), and std::abi sounds like a mess
 
7:47 AM
Apparently not as stable in Visual Studio land...
That proposal taught me that they break stdlib ABI every major release. I didn't know that :v
 
@Rapptz afaik it is. The core language ABI has been stable in VS since forever. It's the library they break every release
 
Xeo
@Rapptz I knew
 
The proposal mentions that somewhere too
 
Xeo
that's why they have the #pragma with the version string
 
Yeah it does.
That's where I learned it :v
 
7:48 AM
ah :)
 
Xeo
so that .o files built with different versions can be detected at link time
 
but again, that means extern "abi" doesn't really do much (other than maybe disable fucking _SECURE_SCL/_HAS_ITERATOR_DEBUGGING or whatever it's called at the moment)
come to think of it... Totally worth it then!
Holy shit, that'd be great
 
lol
iirc that gets turned off when compiled for release no?
 
@Rapptz no
 
@Rapptz Depends
By default, in the latest couple of releases, it does, IIRC. In 2008 or 2010 or something, it was only set to an in-between level
also, of course, your project can override that, so Release can do whatever you want it to :)
 
7:52 AM
seems to agree with you
 
Also, his proposal kinda seems to imply that gcc gets shafted, because they currently use std as the ABI-stable implementation, and they'd have to convince all user code all over the world to migrate to std::abi, to free up std for unstable stuff
 
Xeo
Well, it's from Herb, so you might come up with a conspiracy theory right there
 
:p
 
Well done, Herb. The proposal relegates the problem of users making ABI-stable APIs to a "maybe later" section and simply tries to standardise something that MSVC should already do.
 
Didn't someone call him "The Oracle of Wrong"?
 
7:55 AM
Yes.
 
I wonder if Herb shows up in Hawaiian shirts for committee meetings
 
Well, if he can start that abi discussion in the committee, that might be worth it. But this proposal seems like it's not quite there yet as a solution :p
 
"MSVC is dumb, let's fix it in the standard" is so cool.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, in fairness, GCC is dumb too
ref-counted strings still, in 2014 ;)
but yeah, I agree
 
Does clang have a sane approach to it?
Never bothered looking
They seem to advertise a stable ABI though
 
7:59 AM
I find their distinction between core ABI and library ABI interesting (and by interesting I mean dumb) though. It seems like a decision that must have been made back when it was mainly a C compiler. What good is a stable C++ language ABI, when you can't rely on the library ABI?
 
IMO the one feature you need for this C++ ABI thing is support for pimpling with less boilerplate.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes support for line breaks?
oh
 
Add that and it all becomes easy.
 
What's wrong with ref counted strings?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That has a perf cost though
 
8:01 AM
-4
Q: Best representation of a 3d array

xdevel2000If I must design a space system is better write: int space[10][20][20] where the first index is z, the second index is x and the third index is y or int space[20][20][10] where the first index is x, the second index is y and the third index is z. I often read that a three-dimensional arra...

^^ those tags...
 
@Jefffrey they're illegal according to C++11 (because they're inefficient and icky under threaded code)
 
@jalf no other way to make stable ABIs without just going extern "C".
Well, maybe having an upper bound on your class size forever.
 
Shit. it's 4 AM.
 
That also has a perf cost with the wasted space, though.
It's a eat the cake and have it too thing.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes there's nothing stopping std lib implementers from pimpling everything today (they'll just have to write the boilerplate code for it)
 
8:03 AM
pimpling?
 
@jalf it doesn't help end users one inch though.
 
You mean the pointer to impl thing?
 
@Rapptz ya
@R.MartinhoFernandes why not? It would mean we could use std lib types across library boundaries, no?
 
I don't think the stdlib should be singled out at all here.
@jalf and no other lib types.
 
extern "pimpl"!
 
8:06 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I kind of do. Making everything that's available out of the box (= core language + library) stable is a pretty good starting point
 
Herb's proposal doesn't do anything about other libraries either.
is this possible with variable templates?
template<typename T> using my_stuff = std::map<int, T>;?
If not then variable templates are more useless than I thought
 
This is an alias template.
Do you mean this?
`template< typename T> std::map<int, T> my_stuff;`?
 
Yes
 
@jalf the problem is that by doing that now you either limit yourself in the future generalisation or end up with two separate sets of rules for what is essentially the same thing.
 
Btw, how can you do that font thing with code?
 
8:10 AM
Apparently it's legal.
Neat.
 
Of course it is! Variable templates are nice.
 
I think there's a reasonable distinction between standard stuff (has to offer known stability guarantees, regardless of how it's done), and third party libs (whose degree of stability is left to themselves to decide, and where the language can only provide tools to make stability easier to manage)
 
Outside of that specific use-case I don't think they're neat.
 
Well, they weren't made for much else, were they?
 
You can't mandate stability from the standard.
 
8:12 AM
All examples of it used pi for some retarded reason.
 
Its useful for constants as well, like Pi, e, or Phi.
lol
 
See, you're doing it too.
 
yeah :D
 
Useless example.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes sure you can. The question is whether or not you want to
 
8:12 AM
@jalf: I'd never use a library who doesn't conform to the standard.
 
The proposal uses this notion of ABI dictated by the OS by the way.
It's rather silly to force libstdc++ and libc++ to share an ABI.
 
Whats the difference between both?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes true (although the alternative is saying "you shouldn't be able to link this code with that code, even though both are compiled for the same OS", which is also silly)
 
(the ABIs)!
 
Or have everything share MSVC's ABI on Windows.
Not gonna happen.
 
8:14 AM
Isn't MSVC the special snowflake for the language level ABI?
iirc everyone else uses Itanium ABI.
 
This ABI is a lot more encompassing than that.
 
Does GCC use Itanium?
 
yes
 
Since ever?
Or since like 2?
 
It's not just "this is how you throw exceptions" but also "std::vector is pointer + size + capacity and not three pointers".
 
8:17 AM
yeah
 
The Itanium ABI is the tip of the iceberg.
 
Starting with GCC 3.2, GCC binary conventions for C++ are based on a written, vendor-neutral C++ ABI that was designed to be specific to 64-bit Itanium but also includes generic specifications that apply to any platform.
 
I know.
 
also I think the core problem (that he doesn't touch on at all) is how to handle ABI breakage. Either the C++ standard commits to never ever changing anything that could force an ABI change in any implementation's ABI-stable subset, or there has to be a mechanism for handling that "oops, this implementation has been ABI stable up until now, but we're going to have to break it this once"
 
I much prefer seeing features added like inline namespaces were: useful in the stdlib but just as useful for others.
 
8:19 AM
@jalf He suggested inline namespaces.
 
@jalf that already exists: inline namespaces.
They work well and they work for any library, not just the stdlib.
 
I don't know how I feel about inline namespaces tbh.
I don't know how I'd use it without copy pasting a bunch of code :(
 
With them I can make my libs ABI-stable too.
 
and I don't really like copy pasting code
 
8:20 AM
Sure, my point is that splitting the library into two halves, an "always changing" and a "never changing" isn't realistic and doesn't really give us anything useful on top of what we already had
 
Well libc++ uses inline namespaces
Which is cool I guess.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I guess I don't know how to explain it.
 
Xeo
@Rapptz Why would you do that?
 
Because I just mentioned "I don't know how"?
 
Wasn't @Arcoth supposed to leave our chat forever?
 
Xeo
8:22 AM
Who cares?
Let him dwell if he wants
 
I kinda have this weird feeling, that this lounge is pretty awesome.
 
namespace my { namespace v1 { stuff } }
That's all.
 
Xeo
namespace std{ inline namespace __1{
// ABI breakage:
namespace std{ inline namespace __2{
 
@Arcoth :)
 
I get that :(
Never mind.
 
8:23 AM
By the way, is N3797 still the latest draft?
 
Oh hey Linux Spotify got the new UI
Cool
 
Finally
I reinstalled it two days ago though lolk
time for sudo pacman -S spotify then
 
@CatPlusPlus yay linux only one month behind. Considering spotify "downdates" this might actually be a plus, though.
 
Oh, wait - spotify is not in the official repos.
 
it's proprietary
ah wait pacman, so I have no idea what distro you're using
 
8:26 AM
did anyone try to build libc++ on Windows?
 
And im using Archlinux
So i instead use makepkg -i -s
 
I've never ever used Arch
 
@Abyx Ahahaha no
 
Its nice though, bleeding edge
 
I don't think it even officially supports Linux yet
 
8:28 AM
@CatPlusPlus actually it does
 
@Arcoth I typically stick to the Debian family
 
@Bartek: I am absolutely not farmiliar with Linux - i switched to it about a year ago or so
 
Japanese Language is pretty cool
 
First i used Ubuntu, which sucked, but Arch is very nice.
With Gnome 3 plus Addons its heaven.
Silly KDE guys..
 
IDGI that people keep saying that ubuntu sucks
 
8:29 AM
I use debian with xfce 4
 
I have little to no problems with it.
 
K i didnt like it :D
 
@Abyx Has failing tests on Linux apparently
 
J
 
Only OSX is listed as 100% supported
 
8:29 AM
My server runs Ubuntu Server and it's flawless too.
 
apt/dpkg is crap
 
I have no problems with apt :v
 
Also repos are often outdated because of the release model
 
@CatPlusPlus at least there are instructions on building it
 
Yeah, we had a discussion in the forum about the package manager of Ubuntu
Seems it is really bad
And Pacman is nice
 
8:30 AM
I don't use debian stable
 
@Rapptz Install all -dev packages automatically
Or replace a broken package with your own version
Or replace a stupid, almost irrelevant package that's in a meta hierarchy and triggers removal of half of the system
Portage is the only good Linux package manager
That I've used anyway
Recent example:
May 19 at 9:19, by Cat Plus Plus
Of course gnome-shell depends on a Bluetooth package
Ubuntu has one good thing that it's p fast to set up, but it's quickly offset by maintenance and use being a fucking drag
 
might be that I use linux mostly on VMs
where I don't really pay the maintenance cost that much
 
It's annoying every time you need a newer version of software than what's in the repo
 
I don't like Ubuntu.
 
And don't even get me started about customised builds
 
8:42 AM
The only thing I liked was their Unity HUD thing.
That's pretty neato
 
@CatPlusPlus make make install ? Is it so hard?
 
> I have a C# background, before I have to work with the JavaScript. As for the C#, concatenating strings with the + operator is a bad way. There is a special class StringBuilder, which works better and doesn't provide a bad style of your program design
what
 
Though that didn't work for GCC when i tried to compile the newest snapshot
Still need the PKG-file from that guy
 
what
 
It's not about "hard" it's about "error-prone" and "tedious"
 
8:44 AM
sounds like C Programming Language
 
Esp if you have more than one server
Or whatever
 
Mar 18 at 21:11, by Etienne de Martel
@Jefffrey Why can't you just link to the question like a normal person?
 
What's the point of infrastructure that actively works against you
 
@Jefffrey because the rest of the question is terrible and irrelevant
 
@CatPlusPlus protection!
 
8:45 AM
@CatPlusPlus s/infrastructure/industry/
 
@BartekBanachewicz Then let me downvote it
 
it's already closed
I just wanted to ask why is op+ so bad suddenly
I mean it's bad, in a way
 
user1804599
Fuck you Angular with your retarded globals.
 
user1804599
What a piece of cuntsucking cockshit.
4
 
-2
Q: What is the correct way to concat a string in JavaScript?

Gelo VolroThere are two styles in JavaScript as I know, which provides you a capability to concate various strings into a single string. 1). With the + operator, e.g.: var result = 'abc' + 'zxc'; 2). With the Array.join() function, e.g.: var result = [ 'abc', 'zxc', someValue.toString() ].join( ...

 
8:46 AM
Also Portage better understands packages in foreign package systems than dpkg, which requires repackaging as dpkg package, which is dumb and leads to massively outdated shit even in 'recent' releases
I want Portage basically ;_;
 
TIL I can do git show master@{yesterday}, cool.
 
Is there any difference between T t = {a, b}; and T t{a, b};?
 
Do they look different
 
@Maxpm yes. Xeo explained that to someone yesterday. In general, left = aggregate init, right = uniform init.
 

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