« first day (531 days earlier)      last day (4416 days later) » 

12:00 AM
K night!
 
unfortunately I've got to be at my desk and on a conference call in 7 hours!
nn
 
@je4d I use kompare for diff browsing :)
git diff | kompare -o - rocks
 
@sehe awesome.. if you want anything fixed, just let me know.
I still know the codebase and have commit privileges
 
@je4d likewise
@je4d likewise
 
@sehe but unlike you I'm human and actually need my sleep
 
12:01 AM
@je4d That's nice. Now, I don't remember major problems. A few idosyncrasies, but nothing too annoying
@je4d ...likewise :)
 
@sehe hah. I remain to be convinced.
except that I won't remain, I'm going to sleep
(really)
 
Survival shows make me hungry.
 
sehe, you don't understand how happeh I am
 
@EmileCormier Thanks for letting us know. That could come in handy
 
12:05 AM
after about 5-6 hours of constant browsing, coding, and asking, I have finally got the text IF "engine" down
 
@Hoxieboy now you're ready to begin automated regression testing!
 
oh... yay... o.o
?
@MooingDuck meaning?
 
If you want to actually write an IF game, it's probably better to just use Inform.
 
@Hoxieboy you write a little program that does a series of commands, and looks at the input to make sure it's right. Like pick up light, (check output to make sure it got picked up), pick up light again (check output to make sure it fails), move north, set light down, set light down, move south, move north, making sure everything still works, and that you didn't break anything on accident
 
Hai guys.
 
12:10 AM
Then you run it once in a while.
 
@MooingDuck what programming language is this ?
 
@georgemano any langauge? It's a standard part of programming
 
I think I can just manually test it for now lol the modularity of it though... I don't think I've hard coded ANYTHING accept for player input and object definitions
@georgemano It is python though
@EtiennedeMartel greetings :D
@MooingDuck do you want the source?
 
@Hoxieboy nope. That's your job
 
its only 4k
 
12:14 AM
@Hoxieboy ok, and what does it make? programming sensors?
 
ok
@MooingDuck I know, just to look at though ;)
 
@georgemano he's making a rogue-like
@Hoxieboy nope.
 
@georgemano I'm creating(or trying to :D) a text IF or interactive fantasy, kinda like zork
 
@MooingDuck Zork is not a roguelike.
 
this is actually a predecessor of a roguelike by the way lol
 
12:15 AM
A roguelike has graphics.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes if you count ascii graphics AS graphics :3
 
@georgemano He's making a zork-like
 
lol I'm just excited about it too because without really coding any functions to specifically do this, I managed to pick up an object and move it to a different room and drop it, and have it stay there :D
what would be a good place to post program source code?
almost forgot to implement a flask
oh noes
 
pastebin.com
 
12:19 AM
Roguelikes were displayed with text, but that does not make them "text based".
 
guys , can I ask something ?
 
Depends.
We're not a very good authority when it comes to sexual intercourse.
 
I have a array , I think it is std array
can i say array1==array2?
 
@georgemano if it is a std::array yes, otherwise no (I think std::array can, not 100% sure)
 
@georgemano if you don't care what it does
 
@sehe I care what it does
 
@RMartinhoFernandes This video hasn't got threesome, it has awesome: vimeo.com/36579366
 
You can compare C arrays for equality. You get referential equality though.
 
:)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes can you?
 
12:22 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Do they decay to pointers when you compare them?
 
@MooingDuck They decay to pointers.
 
in fact I'll just upload it to dropbox
 
@MooingDuck it is an array that works only with include<array> and is declared as array <array<int,4>,4>
 
@RMartinhoFernandes that's sad :(
@georgemano that is the std::array, yes
 
That's the fact of life. One array decays so another might be allocated.
5
 
12:23 AM
WTF.
 
@MooingDuck so i can do that , right ?
 
@georgemano yes, it will compare the elements
 
@MooingDuck Nice!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Want To Show?
 
oh noes, I can make books explode and explosions produce books, all the while making robes fill-able with liquids... OOP <3?
 
12:24 AM
@EtiennedeMartel Show what?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes show the cause of the WTF
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh. My brain fucked itself for a second. Disregard what I just said.
 
Sounds good.
2 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
That's the fact of life. One array decays so another might be allocated.
 
Oh, cat was the WTF. Makes sense now
 
12:26 AM
Only the best arrays survive.
The others serve as memory for the next batch.
 
oh boy
flask = Object('YE FLASK, can hold liquids.', 5, False, False, True, True, 'Ye Flask')
 
Greenspun-Zawinski-Godwin theorem: Every system grows to contain Lisp and email so people can argue about Hitler
 
Oh, I forgot to watch yesterday's Zero Punctuation.
 
> So, i caught that bug literally the second I typed it, instead of writing the entire function and 20 unit tests
^ vimeo.com/36579366 at 19:40-ish
Too true. That stuff is amazing
 
I've implemented book reading and spell learning/casting :D
 
12:40 AM
@sehe Eh. I'll be amazed when it's a 5MLoc C++ project
 
@DeadMG Skeptic. It is pretty darn nice, already. I'll take it for Haskell. Forget C++
 
I also have no idea how it would work for less visual code
for example, how would you use that for a sort algorithm?
 
@DeadMG Duh. The linked timepoint is about implementing quicksort
 
seems to me like he's got this special case, and it's sweet, but I don't see how it's useful in the general case
oh, I didn't see the linked timepoint
 
posted on March 30, 2012 by Herb Sutter

Last week I spent 30 minutes with interviewer Robert Hess to talk about the differences between managed and native languages, and why modern C++ is clean, safe, and fast – as “clean and safe” as any other modern language, and still the king of “fast.” The interview just went live today on Channel 9. Here’s [...]

 
12:43 AM
@DeadMG Skeptic. Sure you see how it would be useful. You probably mean to say you don't see how it could be feasible. Puny limitations of human imagination
 
@sehe No, actually, I'm still not really seeing the useful of it
I mean, admittedly, I have not seen the entire video
but I just don't see how it's going to scale above toy examples
 
@DeadMG There, you mirrored may interpretation: 'You probably mean to say you don't see how it could be feasible'
Skeptic :)
> Puny limitations of human imagination
 
I'm pretty sure that "not scaling above toy" is "useless"
 
I'm pretty sure that "I just don't see how" is irrelevant
 
why/ it's aperfectly valid opinion
 
12:49 AM
@DeadMG I'm not debating whether it is an opinion.
 
why link it if not to gain opinions on it?
 
He's not saying, "don't give me your opinions", he's saying, "thanks for your opinion...here's why it's unsound"
 
I think you're going to need to resolve that situation in the ring.
 
I don't value a skeptical appreciation that comes about in mere minutes. I personally can totally see this happen. I don't think the code demo is a fraud. I think it is highly useful and exemplary of many functions I write in my day to day job.
7 mins ago, by DeadMG
I'm pretty sure that "not scaling above toy" is "useless"
^ I guess I can't handle that kind of 'implied logic'
'not scaling above toy' is a figment of your imagination. Yet you combine it with frivolous retoric to dismiss the concept as 'useless' pretty surely.
 
a figment of my imagination, huh
how are you gonna do that quicksort algorithm for an input that's 10,000 long?
you can't type an example 10,000 value input into a quicksort
or see that sweet grid for a loop that goes 10k iterations
or what if each iteration is a 10MB texture?
 
12:59 AM
@DeadMG Why would you want that. The visualisation is an aid and the scale of the input doesn't matter. Much.
 
You test for large inputs by fuzzing.
 
@sehe Maybe my algorithm has a bug in it that only manifests at 10k
 
@DeadMG You wrote Java 1.4?
 
or, I dunno, through integral overflow
or a race condition
 
@DeadMG Spot on. Java had integer overflow issues in Quicksort
@DeadMG I don't care. You can't dismiss the whole concept as useless just because it has limitations. That would make you and me very useless.
29 mins ago, by sehe
> So, i caught that bug literally the second I typed it, instead of writing the entire function and 20 unit tests
 
1:01 AM
being limited to scales above 10 is a very serious limitation, considering that programming is practically the definition of the job which has to cope with very large scales
 
^ that alone makes it worth something in everyday programming
@DeadMG Maths much? Logic much? Divide and conquer. I think you just explained why 100-line functions could be ok or even necessary. I don't buy it.
 
@sehe This thing is equivalent to proof by truth table- and that doesn't go very far for applications with more than a few bits of information either
 
In order to implement a tree, you really need to model only a single node. You might want to 'visualize' interactions with 2 nodes, maybe 3, perhaps even 8. But not for more. That would be just the logic scaling, and you don't need to visualize it. In fact, the human brain can't 'oversee' it anyway
@DeadMG No need to point out the limitations. I'm aware of them. I'm just saying that doesn't make it useless.
Do you think that observation (early detection of potential bug) I quoted (twice) is useless?
 
sure, but not everything is trivially visualizable as a simple recursive algorithm
 
@DeadMG Nobody said as much.
 
1:07 AM
OK
most problems that I have seen and dealt with which were actual genuine problems, not "It didn't work and I stepped through it in the debugger once, set one breakpoint, observed and fixed the problem in two minutes" problems, could not possibly be resolved by such a system
problems like, "The requirements were incorrect", "The specification was incorrect", "The class has a fundamentally bad design", "I have a dangling pointer somewhere"
 
@DeadMG True. I get what you're saying there. True problems live at other levels of abstraction. However, not a day goes by when I don't write those 'obvious' mini-bugs.
 
that's true
but they never take more than a couple minutes to fix
whereas the other bugs can take hours, days, or weeks to fix
or even months
 
@DeadMG Now, in my opinion, reducing those minutes to sseconds is totally useful
@DeadMG actually, to find, mostly, fixing is frequently the easy part
 
yeah
but my point is the same- that this tool won't help with those
and yes, it's irritating that I spent minutes tracking down silly typos
 
I use a power editor to reduce time doing chores. I use distcc and ccache to reduce time waiting for compilers. I use Resharper to reduce brain wear-out while shoving code around.
 
1:13 AM
that's equally true
but for me, the need to edit code using Autocompletion is practically every line of every method I ever write or edit
the need to remove the "I made a whoopsie" is limited, at most
 
@DeadMG It's like complaining in about your brand new TV that it won't help you draw cartoon figures. It's not for that
 
And you have the crappy end of the autocompletion stick.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes ? Hi = and what do you mean
 
that would be a relevant comparison- if I was a cartoon artist who never watched TV
 
Ha, today I refactored two (out of 20) components at work, to use new framework facilities that I developed when building my own component recently.
 
1:16 AM
@sehe I mean the Visual C++ autocompletion is a piece of shit. Especially if you compare it to high-powered tools like R#.
 
The components lost 5700 LoC, out of a total of 32k LoC
 
@RMartinhoFernandes You know, it's non-existant in VS2010 (and I think 2008) for some reason I forgot, anyway...
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I thought you were responding to something.
 
3 mins ago, by DeadMG
but for me, the need to edit code using Autocompletion is practically every line of every method I ever write or edit
 
I don't use VS for C++. To slow.
 
1:18 AM
@sehe I'm a fan of Notepad++. But if I'm making a GUI application, I'll use VS at least some of the time for coding.
I will have to watch that interview. I'm not up on the latest versions of C++. I need to be.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It's better in vNext
but more importantly, it's sure better than none at all
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Missed that line. @DeadMG Can't help but feel that seems a bit backward to me.
 
hey
I will be perfectly happy to climb on the "Visual Studio Sucks" bandwagon
but I'm not really feeling the better solutions
and their Intellisense may be of questionable quality
 
@sidran32 That interview? The presentation we're discussing is not about C++ nor about VS
 
but it's sure higher than none
 
1:22 AM
@sehe Linked up above. Sorry, was reading up.
 
@sidran32 Ah, Feeds again? I ignore him
 
@DeadMG I actually think that Visual Studio is awesome as a debugger. But it's mediocre when actually coding, compared with what I'm used to in N++.
 
@DeadMG Eclipse with CDT is not horrible, but is slower than VS
@sidran32 Really? Does N++ actually have editor features VS doesn't?
 
@CollinHockey Slower? Not with me. (Especially if you factor in launch time. Heck, installation :))
 
Autocompletion is for wusses.
 
1:23 AM
@sehe I think I need more RAM...
 
@CollinHockey Heaps and gazillions
 
@CollinHockey My main thing that I missed was a built-in compare utility (which N++ supports with a plugin) and the ability to block edit.
 
@sidran32 I believe it arrives in MSVS2011. VS2010 has it in a Addon
 
@sehe It'll be 2012 now :P
 
Visual Studio goes with Emacs way of hiding every useful feature behind 4 key combinations with alternating Ctrl and Alt.
 
1:25 AM
However, the code browsing in Visual Studio (such as the callers graph, at least) is pretty awesome.
 
vNext comes with a nice include dependency graph generator
 
@sidran32 Compare I guess you don't have in VS, but you can do block selections: weblogs.sqlteam.com/joew/archive/2007/11/06/60393.aspx
@CatPlusPlus (I do most of my coding in emacs)
 
I don't have rubber fingers.
 
@CollinHockey That sentence seems to be missing a negative.
 
@CollinHockey Neat. I think when I tried it, it didn't work (was VS2005 at the time, if it matters). But then again, I don't use the mouse much, so maybe Alt+Shift+Arrow keys doesn't work in VS?
 
1:26 AM
@sidran32 I think it's a new feature of 2010 or something
 
@CollinHockey Ah. I'll have to see.
 
I see Visual Studio as a nice R# host.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Exactly
 
That's why I don't use it for C++.
 
Exactly
 
1:28 AM
what even is R#?
 
Resharper.
 
I really don't hate Visual Studio. I just don't use it unless I'm making a full-blown Windows project. It feels like such overkill if I only am creating a few source files at the most.
 
Or, if I'm forced to at work. Or if I'm debugging. Because debugging in anything else just isn't as good. :P
 
1:29 AM
no C++ support?
 
Though I have yet to find an awesome debugger. At least VS2010 supports multimonitor support. In some programs, I feel like I could spread out my data across 4 screens...
 
@DeadMG Nope.
:(
 
ah well
guess I'd better get back to inventing Wide at sometime soon, then
 
I'd love to create my own debugger. But the scale of that kind of project is just massive. :P
I have grand ideas, but little time.
Or, perhaps, too many ideas and things I want to do. :P
 
1:31 AM
Meh, you just hook up existing engine and add stuff on top of that.
 
@CatPlusPlus I have to admit that I haven't looked into it much. But with the prevalence of OSS, that's probably a viable option...
 
Make a debugger with only one command: "Find bug".
 
:D
 
You can either use GDB or, if Windows only, Debug Engine that powers WinDbg and probably Visual Studio, too.
 
1:33 AM
It takes input directly from the issue tracker, and produces a report with the lines that cause it and why.
@CollinHockey Far from what I had in mind.
 
Findbugs is a static analyser AFAIK.
 
@CatPlusPlus Oh really? I didn't know that engine was available.
I was thinking GDB. DDD is just horrible. There needs to be something better out there.
 
If you really want to write your own debugger, you go one level lower and use Debugger API. On *nices, probably ptrace.
But that's mostly waste of time.
 
@sidran32 DDD is actually quite nice. It sort of breaks down due to template contraption naming
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It was meant to be facetious
 
1:34 AM
@CatPlusPlus It depends on the scale of what I want. Most of my ideas center around better information distribution.
@sehe I've used it successfully, but I swear I spent as much time moving things around so that I can see all my data as much as I actually spent thinking about my actual bughunting tasks.
 
@sidran32 That's not a bad thing. The point is, did it help you see the bug more quickly
 
Lately I just use GDB directly.
 
@CatPlusPlus Exclusively. For C++
 
@CatPlusPlus I do the same, though I'm not coding C on Linux as much as I used to be.
 
Many bugs you can catch just by reading the code carefully.
Well, maybe not in C, because of the boilerplate.
 
1:37 AM
@CatPlusPlus Mmm. True, but that doesn't really cover the full ground
 
@CatPlusPlus We've started using crucible at work to pretty good success
 
@sehe Yes, but it could have done better. :P If I recall correctly, it liked to resize windows when new data appeared, making me have to move everything around again since things I wanted to look at started overlapping or getting out of view.
@CatPlusPlus I know. :P I've been coding for a long time, so I've been there, done that.
 
@CollinHockey What's that?
 
@CatPlusPlus In college, I had to write and debug some C programs for a course that were designed to be run stand-alone. As in: it's compiled and put on a floppy disk with a bootloader, reboot, and load it directly off the disk. No debugger to break into. You had to make much use of printing to the screen if you ran into a bug, and lots of code inspection. :P
I'm sure there's tools out there that let you emulate x86 hardware and let you break into a debugger from the host OS, but we didn't have access to anything like that for the scope of the course.
 
@sehe It's a code review tool from Atlassian. Basically you hook it up to your repositories, then create code reviews based on changesets, files, whatever
Then comment inline on the code
It's much easier than getting everyone in a room and doing a code review on the projector
atlassian.com/software/crucible/overview - The pricing is really strange, $10 for 5 users, and $800 for 10 -- we bought a 5 user license
 
1:44 AM
Looked at Go language. Must admit i pretty much liked it simplistic style - as C++ and Python developer.
 
@CollinHockey Thanks for the link
 
@sidran32 I do embedded systems, and for many things its the same way. I try to make as little of the code as possible rely on the actual hardware so I can test most of the code compiled on the host machine
 
@CollinHockey That's a good system. Probably could make an API layer for certain things and link to different libraries when compiling for debugging on the host OS vs compiling for actually running it in an embedded environment?
 
There was a message(msdn blogs) that the C++ programs compiled in Visual Studio 11 will not work under Windows XP. Anybody knows something about it?
I dont mean WinRT platform.
 
@Miatar My random guess would be that it has something to do with either a .NET version that won't be released for XP, or perhaps they're doing away with support for certain win32 libraries that XP uses?
 
1:53 AM
W̟indows XP mainstream support ended three years ago.
Extended support ends in two years.
 
There is that.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes @ try tell this to your customers =)
 
@Miatar Microsoft is telling that to their customers.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes the potential loss of customers is my problem - not microsoft i suppose...
 
1:58 AM
@sidran32 Pretty much how we do it. Our OS/platform abstraction stuff actually compiles different libs for linux / embedded platforms
 
nods
 
@Miatar It's up to you to decide if those customers are worth whatever inconveniences having to support XP causes you.
 
btw, is anyone tried d 2(d lang 2) - i really tried to look at that language, but i simply dont understand it principles
@RMartinhoFernandes true...
 
@sidran32 Emulators are pretty much designed for this.
 
2:21 AM
@CatPlusPlus I got a magic/spell system down earlier, now loads text files for viewing :D
 
 
2 hours later…
4:04 AM
whats the most efficient way of doing this in c++ ? stackoverflow.com/questions/9935974/…
@RMartinhoFernandes I see VS as cat shit, and not catch it!
@CatPlusPlus ".. by reading the code carefully" ? catch it or cat shit?
 
4:20 AM
@FrankComputer Probably the way you did it in basic.. or:
11
Q: combination and permutation in C++

skydoorWhat's the most widely used existing library in C++ to give all the combination and permutation of k elements out of n elements? I am not asking the algorithm but the existing library or methods. Thanks.

Also these are cool (linked from the question): home.roadrunner.com/~hinnant/combinations.html
 
4:55 AM
Good Morning to all
unable to compile project
getting linker errors
 
@Vinod Good Morning? That means you're probably living in the same area as me!
 
exactly
!
 
@ScottW It's the worst thing I never bothered to use. :D
 
can anybody help me out
 
@Vinod ask at SO?
 
5:05 AM
searched every thing
 
I wonder when the PPL will start.
 
 
1 hour later…
6:16 AM
> I slept with an Agile developer and now my doctor told me I have a TDD.
 
you might be eaten by a grue
a TDD?
 
@StackedCrooked Grats!
@IntermediateHacker I like how is still managing the thumbs-up with the cast
Mawning.
Hah. Big oops
We just woke up at 8:02am
 
6:36 AM
I have spent far too long on my computer I dare say
 
That meant: jump out, bully them poor kids out of bed (fast asleep still...), dress them, get their hair combed (oldest), make a sandwich, eat it, prepare satchels (the dishwasher failed to run too, wash manually), scrub teeth, prepare 'bakfiets' and run.
It worked. Sort of.. They're gonna be on time, that is. And we owe them a big apology for failing to wake up earlier :) (-- still done of course, but they probably didn't here it then)
 
@sehe I can relate to my parents not waking up on time :3
 
5 hours ago, by sehe
@CollinHockey Thanks for the link
^^ Only roughly 36 chat messages since I went to bed? @ScottW must be right, this room's dead without Europe
 
sbi
@sehe BTDT. Fortunately, I have, over time, learned to avoid such situations, so that this hasn't happen to me in years.
 
@ScottW You do
 
sbi
6:44 AM
@sehe Yeah, but then: You don't sleep much. I mean, what's "5 hours ago", given that you've been awake an hour already?
 
@sbi O we have only had this happen once before. We (I + wife) hate it so much that we avoid it quite effectively. It must have been the dailylight savings effect still: it's very dark this morning (cloudy)
 
sbi
@sehe You might want to look into the concept of an "alarm clock". I agree, it's weird. But it's quite effective.
 
@sbi Still failing to get a rhythm. That doesn't help, I guess. Still, my wife doesn't join me in my bizarre sleep patterns, so the 'dark morning' rationale still serves to explain her failing to wake up at first call :)
@sbi Derp. I guess I deserve it. You know how that works:
99% of the time it works. Then you hit 'dismiss' instead of 'snooze' one day
 
sbi
@sehe 99%? That's failing more than trice a year!
 
Anyways, off to work! More code to delete
@sbi That was just display precision. Actual values publishable in the IFRL report
 
sbi
6:47 AM
@ScottW But are you responsible for others not having a miserable morning because you slept in?
@ScottW See, there's the difference.
 
Delete, Delete,      I've got a crush on you ♮♩
Delete, Delete,  ♬ I'm so in love with you
^ Everyone sing along :)
(afk)
 
sbi
You can measure the speed of light by using a bunch of marshmallows and a microwave! Instructions ---> http://omgf.ac/ts/dpq
 
7:02 AM
lol
 
7:22 AM
mawning
 
morning
still hate life, feel sick, etc?
meh, imgur seems to be down
 
of course
what could possibly change those fundamental constants of my existence
 
what'd really make my life better is if I could render those damn 3D lines
spent all my time writing collision detection and unit selection routines, and now I have no damn way to indicate anything to the user
 
7:38 AM
oh that sucks
 
Mat
I'm in the mood to try something new today... Anyone here tried out Go?
 
sbi
Go (weiqi in Chinese, igo in Japanese, baduk in Korean), is an ancient board game for two players that originated in China more than 2,000 years ago. The game is noted for being rich in strategy despite its relatively simple rules. The game is played by two players who alternately place black and white stones on the vacant intersections (called "points") of a grid of 19×19 lines (beginners often play on smaller 9×9 and 13×13 boards). The object of the game is to use one's stones to surround a larger portion of the board than the opponent. Once placed on the board, stones can only be ...
2k years is not exactly new, eh?
 
Mat
I haven't tried the game out either actually. I'll stick to chess for now, anything chinese is going to be too complex for me
 
sbi
> The game is noted for being rich in strategy despite its relatively simple rules.
 
Mat
The look at the "Basic Rules" and you see 2 black pieces disappear because they are surrounded in a particular way by white
That could get very complex on a 19x19 board
In any case, I meant golang.org
 
7:57 AM
@sbi and for making the whole "teach a computer to play chess" thing look trivial, and like a complete waste of time ;)
 

« first day (531 days earlier)      last day (4416 days later) »