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12:00 AM
Only robot will.
 
Mankind split the atom to kill other mankind. That was a tremendous achievement.
 
I didn't know Lounge<C++> would actually be helpful to anyone
 
"An atom cannot be split" is therefore false.
 
We split atoms all the fricken time
Nuclear reactors, particle accelerators
 
They don't need our help you know. They do that on their own, too.
 
12:01 AM
It's practically a banality now
 
"No space left on the device" KABOOM
 
@Insilico We split hairs all the fricken time (FTFY)
 
well, if you split atoms, then you wont have much of a computer, or the area in which you are standing left!
 
Hairs can even split themselves.
 
@FrankComputer: We seem to have no trouble splitting atoms without destroying everything in a 50 mile radius.
 
12:01 AM
We should be using that.
 
no need to go further that atoms or even molecules, that will give us more than enough computing power we will ever need, especially when we get off the binary system and use qubits!
 
Newsflash: qubits are binary.
 
no their not, a qubit can have many values between 0 and 1
 
store data as sandwiches imo.
 
There are two measurable states in a qubit.
 
12:04 AM
@FrankComputer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qubit
 
Voltage is not discrete either, but somehow we manage to get binary.
 
> The difference is that whereas a bit must be either 0 or 1, a qubit can be 0, 1, or a superposition of both
So apparently is not that simple as 0 and 1
 
11
Q: Does anyone know what "Quantum Computing" is?

Frank ComputerIn physics, its the ability for particles to exist in multiple/parallel dynamic states at a particular point in time. In computing, would it be the ability of a data bit to equal 1 or 0 at the same time, a third value like NULL[unknown] or multiple values?.. How can this technology be applied to:...

 
0, 1, file not found.
The revolution.
 
A ternary boolean
 
12:06 AM
The brillant revolution.
 
@Insilico The superposed state is not measurable.
To obtain information you have to measure it, obtaining a 0 or a 1.
 
Cue benchmarks of it.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes: Yes, I am aware of that. :-)
 
you may think i'm crazy, but i know this already exists, its just not commercially available, its still a government secret
 
@LucDanton Man, took me a while to notice that. I guess I'm getting sleepy.
 
12:09 AM
@FrankComputer: Governments aren't very good at keeping secrets
 
@FrankComputer I'm safe, my house is covered in tinfoil.
 
So my university just extended the grade submission deadline for the professors from 5:00 PM today (local time) to 11:00 PM
cue RAGE FACE
 
yes, but governmets are very good at misinformation and indirection
 
@FrankComputer: They aren't quite smart enough to do that effectively. :-)
 
just remember this conversation 5 years or so from now
 
12:12 AM
@FrankComputer: I won't have to.
StackExchange Chat has transcripts for all our posts
 
@ScottW ohai
 
innovations happen every day!
 
@FrankComputer I'll remember the conversation as well as the convesation.
 
@FrankComputer: Yes, that's kind of what humans do.
At least the non-stupid ones, anyway
 
morning
 
12:15 AM
@DeadMG: Good morning
 
@ScottW goed
ohai
 
Like in the movie Stelath, "EDI's the whole idea!"
 
Good (morning|afternoon|evening) all
(whichever one applies to you)
 
(Good | Bad) (morning|afternoon|evening) all
 
we just have to put the newly discovered power to good use!
 
12:16 AM
lol
 
I'm trying to be as generic as possible.
 
template<typename Time> SayGreeting();
 
Buenas Noches!
 
SayGreeting<Morning>();
SayGreeting<Afternoon>();
SayGreeting<Evening>();
@FrankComputer: Crap I forgot about localization
Has anybody here used Bit Bucket?
Is it any good?
 
12:18 AM
I have a great Pawnshop Management app I developed over 22 years ago running in over 88 shops, but havent had the time or energy to modernize it to a touch-screen POS app
 
So far all my repos have been local mercurial repos
Might as well learn how to use the "distributed" part of mercurial
@FrankComputer: I keep reading POS app as Piece of Shit and not Point of Sale
 
Oh, I thought the P stood for Pile.
 
(Although there are lots of POS apps that really are POS.)
 
right
 
@RMartinhoFernandes: Yes, that can work too.
 
12:20 AM
do any of you nincompoops know anything about frustum culling?
 
anyone know of a good POS SDK for developing apps?.. My app was developed with INFORMIX-SQL with some cfunc and ESQL/C calls.
 
nincompoops?
 
@DeadMG:
In 3D computer graphics, the viewing frustum or view frustum is the region of space in the modeled world that may appear on the screen; it is the field of view of the notional camera. The exact shape of this region varies depending on what kind of camera lens is being simulated, but typically it is a frustum of a rectangular pyramid (hence the name). The planes that cut the frustum perpendicular to the viewing direction are called the near plane and the far plane. Objects closer to the camera than the near plane or beyond the far plane are not drawn. Often, the far plane is placed infinit...
 
@DeadMG We had to do that for CG class, but I don't remember at all.
 
well, approximating the frustum as an AABB and culling based on it is producing way too many collisions
apparently, I need to check every AABB against the frustum, but I'm smelling O(N) there and I don't like it
 
user457812
12:21 AM
@DeadMG I don't, but would this help?
 
what does "fuzzing" mean, causing something to break in order to reverse-engineer a hack?
 
@DeadMG Can't you check only those in the appropriate octants?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Already did.
still coming up with 25 objects instead of 4 on the screen
 
Oh, wait, you mean you're culling against an AABB and not a proper frustum?
That doesn't sound healthy.
 
hence my problem :P
 
12:26 AM
AFAIR collision testing with a frustum isn't that complicated.
 
why not conical instead of pyramid?
 
@FrankComputer: Because our screens aren't circular?
 
@FrankComputer Unless you have a circular screen, a cone doesn't make sense.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It isn't. The problem is to avoid having to do it O(N) times and instead O(log(N)) times
 
It should be cheap to test against 6 planes, no?
Oh wait it needs to be done for each object nvm
But I'd imagine it's still cheaper than letting the polygons draw
 
12:28 AM
not really
the GPU is way faster at such things than the CPU
it's best to simply discard a large proportion quickly than to expend massive effort getting it 100% right
 
I thought the whole point of doing frustrum culling at the application level is because your application has a higher-level idea of what the polygons are arranged into
while the GPU sees only a polygon soup
 
@Insilico And doing it O(N) is throwing that advantage away.
 
@DeadMG: Yeah I forget about that
 
eh
maybe I should just be happy with discarding 3/4 of my objects
 
I don't see what else you can do besides limiting checks to the appropriate octants (you can do this to skip both sure negatives and sure positives).
 
12:31 AM
I mean, if they weren't so densely packed in my test scene, I'd be discarding more than that
 
every frustrum longs to be a cone, like in the Cyberiad :)
 
Is it better to have false positives or false negatives (in your application)?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I guess what I could do is pass the frustum straight into the octree and get a more accurate view of which subnodes it intersects that way
instead of approximating it
 
@Insilico False negatives means things that should won't be drawn.
False positives means bandwidth wastage.
 
a false positive is some bad performance, a false negative is an incorrect output
 
12:33 AM
I suppose false negatives are worse.
 
and there's no optimization worth having an incorrect output
 
@DeadMG: I think nVidia has done that in the past to fix the benchmarks
 
of course they have, they're a GPU maker
 
besides, there's a big difference between "tiny artifacts" and "not rendering my giant object"
 
12:34 AM
@DeadMG: Yes. That's what I meant
 
"Hey what did I bump into?"
 
I think they got into a lot of trouble for totally incorrect output when subject to random benchmark tests
 
@RMartinhoFernandes What do you make of that comment by Johannes?
Just the comment stand-alone.
 
I think he's talking about template <typename = ...> void f(); template <typename = different condition> void f();
I want static if.
 
Yes, which requires e.g. some ugly typename = void hack to make it work.
 
12:37 AM
Speaking of Johannes, I find his use of LITB quite classy.
 
So you want my opinion on what alternative is preferable?
Or what?
 
If it's time to change the EnableIf alias, yes.
 
LITB is classy?
 
(Loyally in the bond, for those who don’t know. Though I prefer “Sincerely from your faithful Jon Purdy” myself.)
Well, it’s unusually polite.
 
litb is just a misspelling of 'let it be' IIRC
 
12:39 AM
@JonPurdy He once mentioned it stood for "Let it be".
 
Oh. How disappointing.
 
@LucDanton I'm torn. I definitely don't like the last parameter approach.
Doesn't it break with variadics?
 
Wut?
 
what I like about octree codes
recursion makes it so simple
 
@LucDanton Isn't he suggesting to do the EnableIf in a defaulted parameter?
 
12:41 AM
No. template<typename T, typename = EnableIf<foo<T>>> ... is however, and that's what I'm using.
He's suggesting template<typename T, EnableIf<foo<T>> = 0> ... which does involve a defaulted parameter though. (Obviously not the same alias as before in this case.)
 
Why does he use typename then?
Why does he mention return types?
 
Return type version is template<typename T> typename std::enable_if<foo<T>::value, Ret>::type ... which doesn't work for everything and I'm not sure how to alias it.
He mentions it to be exhaustive and because that's one of the common variation.
 
@LucDanton Οh, I thought he was talking about function parameters.
The return type mention threw me off.
 
Yeah, that's also a common variation. This one doesn't have a problem when overloading either.
It's just the typename = EnableIf<foo<T>> one that sticks out with its big flaw. I think I'll change.
 
I don't mind EnableIf<...> = 0.
 
12:45 AM
Any preference regarding EnableIf<foo<T>> = 0 or EnableIf<foo<T>> = nullptr or EnableIf<foo<T>> = true?
 
damn
GLM y u no provide plane functions :(
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Is your alias a 'straight' alias to std::enable_if which means it takes only one or two parameters?
 
nullptr looks silly there. = true certainly gives a more "fluent" look.
@LucDanton Not anymore.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Although changing that true to false would disappoint, so that sounds gratuitous.
 
12:47 AM
It'd be possible to use a scoped enum with one True enumerator but speaking of gratuitous...
 
I'd go with 0.
Hmm. EnableIf<foo<T>> = {}.
 
user406009
This is a really stupid question, but does anyone know if two applications can listen to the same gamepad at a time?
 
I suppose that's an OS-y question.
 
user406009
Well on windows 7.
 
definitely depends on target OS
you can use an input hook on Windows, but you'd have to write specially to achieve the effect
 
12:51 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Wow, that does work. Let's try with a literal class type.
 
Not having the zero there makes it look less warty.
 
Oh wait, they can't be used in template parameter list. Because 'literal type' is a useless concept.
 
Yeah, I think there's a DR for that.
 
lol, a scoped enum with no enumerators is possible though.
 
What are you calling that beast?
enable_if_dummy? unit?
 
12:53 AM
I don't know, I'll probably hide the type in a namespace. I.e. implementation detail.
On the other hand that would forbid tag dispatching, e.g. foo(t, EnableIf<bar<T>> {}).
Man I really wish I could have used std::true_type here.
Guess there's no point in using EnableIf for tag dispatching in the first place.
 
@LucDanton Hmm, is EnableIf useful for that?
@LucDanton Right.
It's either SFINAEd away, or always the same type.
 
So I'll go with implementation detail and name it something like type_traits_detail::enable_if_literal_type or something.
 
I'm really annoyed that clang borks on EnableIf.
 
(I'll check how such a name affects error messages though.)
 
@LucDanton You give special names to your detail namespaces? I've always had a tingling feeling that detail everywhere was asking for collision trouble, but never ran into it, so I haven't worried much.
 
12:57 AM
> main.cpp: In instantiation of 'void foo(T) [with T = int; typename std::enable_if<std::is_same<T, int>::value, empty>::type <anonymous> = (type)0]':
Guess I'll make the name short and sweet as it'll appear everywhere.
 
short_and_sweet!
 
@JonPurdy He also once linked to a merchandise website associating to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leave_It_to_Beaver
Just saying
 
@RMartinhoFernandes You had a question regarding those namespaces that are reopened across TUs and I decided to take the careful approach after some reflection. I did have conflicts in the past and it's annoying to change a topical, local name into a convoluted detail::featureX_find because someone took detail::find first. This runs into the point of namespaces head first. So featureX_detail::find it is.
 
hey robot
 
1:00 AM
I wish to re-affirm my previous opinion that GLM's documentation is weak-ass, at best
 
Does anyone know how to run a program that generally gets run by using:

LD_LIBRARY_PATH=.:$HOME/cs220s12/lib ./fn_trace fns testFn

in gdb?
 
Woah, MS released ASP.NET MVC under the Apache license.
 
@soandos Since LD_LIBRARY_PATH is an environment variable, you should just be able to do that part first, then run in gdb
 
@soandos Substitute the ./fn_trace foo bar invocation with gdb --args fn_trace foo bar
 
I think gdb picks those up
 
1:04 AM
in gdb, i tried
set environment LD_LIBRARY_PATH $home/daniel/cs220s12/lib
but either that or my
set args fns testFn

Line is not working
 
I meant substitute part of the invocation, keeping the LD_LIBRARY_PATH and all.
 
Explain?
 
No. I'm doing something else now.
 
ok..
 
@soandos $home looks not right. Replace it without fully expanded absolute path?
Also, that should be likely:
 
1:09 AM
~?
 
set environment LD_PRELOAD /home/daniel/cs220s12/lib/libmylib.so
@RMartinhoFernandes Can't rely on userland programs to do shell expansion
 
Oh, I thought we were invoking a program from the shell.
 
@sehe, so I give it a relative path?
@sehe, also, I am loading more than one .so from the folder
 
> For best performance if there's less than 4 levels of nesting, use one. If there are more levels of nesting use the other. In all other cases use the comefrom statement: cs.dartmouth.edu/~mckeeman/references/come_from.html – Michael Burr 1 min ago
Pure win.
 
3 mins ago, by sehe
@soandos $home looks not right. Replace it without fully expanded absolute path?
^ not relative
 
1:12 AM
Absolute > relative.
Screw Einstein.
 
@soandos Get it to work with one preload, then read the docs for details
 
@sehe, not working
even if I explicitly state the .so
and have an absolute path
object '~/home/daniel/cs220s12/lib/libsc220.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored.
Why is that?
 
@soandos because the path is illegal?
Why are you typing a ~ there?
Anyways, bedtime. 3:20am here
 
good night
thanks for the help
 
Cheers
 
2:02 AM
anyone that read this question?
0
Q: ADL fails when there are lambda arguments?

Martin Wirthquite some time ago i noticed that in Visual C++ 10 ADL fails when at least one of the arguments is a lambda. std::vector<float> vec; for_each(begin(vec), end(vec), [](float) {}); The above fails to compile on VC++10 and 11 (beta) (begin and end are found via ADL). When i convert the l...

 
2:30 AM
I read it
 
@DeadMG care to review my answer vs the answer provided by Nawaz? It's 4:31 am so it could very well be something I'm missing, but I took some time to re-read everything twice so I hope not.
 
if I found a problem with it, I would have posted an appropriate comment
 
@DeadMG true, though you could have read the question before I posted the answer. but I take that as a "stay calm, go to sleep, but first; grab a smoke"
 
IMO, ADL is so hideously unreliable that it's best avoided in any place possible, so I try to get away without having to know about it
 
@ScottW what other excuse is there to use?
"my dog ate it" doesn't quite cut it..
"I missed the bus".. well, that would certainly make you look like a retard
@ScottW we will never know.
 
user868935
2:47 AM
whats the preferred tool for making a gui application?
 
user868935
@ScottW is it free?
 
user868935
THX!!! :)
 
user868935
@ScottW I checked it out and it looks pretty good. do you know of any others (besides QT)?
 
4:19 AM
what? C++ is in the fourth row of rooms?
 
at 5:30 GMT, even this room becomes inactive... sometimes
 
user457812
It's when coding/eating are synchronized.
 
5:06 AM
ARGH VS U CRASH AND LOSE MY WORK :(
wow, or maybe all my work survived?
Visual Studio, u so good at saving my work from disaster
 
@DeadMG: How far back does it save your work for emergency purposes?
 
it only failed to recover the cutting of one block of text
so, about the last ten seconds
and the thing I did about fifteen seconds before it crashed, it saved
one of the few things I find fairly impressive about Visual Studio is it's resistance to suchthings
 
@ScottW: Surely you use source control, no?
Before the VC++ compiler was better at dealing with templates
Internal compiler errors were common
The template metaprograms were a bit much for the older versions, apparently
@ScottW: Or you could use a source control tool. :-)
Although it only works when you set it up first
Is there any way to make a Visual C++ project template or something? Easily?
I keep making the same settings over and over again
things like /W4, /WX, etc.
 
there's a File->Export Template button
I have no idea what it does, so use if you have judicious quantities of testicles
 
I'll try it out if I actually have Visual Studio in front of me
 
 
2 hours later…
6:57 AM
shitload of flags
good morning
@DeadMG you mean, it's so bloddy hard to simply get stuff deleted (delete a project: get a modal dialog for each individual file and (in VS2008) you can't even control it with the keyboard, so you're mousing like a monkey, serving VS?
@ScottW Never do, I suppose
Already back from school, brought the kids by bike
@ScottW Eclipse local history rocks, especially with structural diffs
@ScottW however, kids infrequently explain things
 
@sehe Even if that were true, I don't see what the relevance is.
VS is impressively good at saving work if it or my machine crashes, that's a good thing
 
@ScottW Oh it's nothing to do with the kids. Both of them are long-sleepers and they slept whole-nighters since 5 weeks old
 
no matter what it's other admittedly very real flaws are
 
@DeadMG I don't share that experience. Visual studio is impressively good at crashing randomly, yes.
Cue: telling me it's the plugins
@ScottW Well, it does in the sense that there is a lot discipline to still get up at 7am
On the relevance: someone said an IDE made it so easy to delete a lot of stuff. You say, VS is so resilient to that.
Immediately that resonates with my everyday experience: deleting stuff is annoying. I frequently drop down to a text editor to edit .csproj/vcproj files
 
@sehe No, I said that VS was so resilient to losing my work through crashing of it or my machine.
 
7:04 AM
Yes, I mentioned before the customer still uses SourceSafe. Not my fault. Crappy integration (Microsoft proprietary) gives all those dialog boxes.
@DeadMG Oh. I think no crash was involved in @ScottW's eclipse story?
 
sure, but what I said wasn't at all aimed at him
although I appreciate this might not be inherently obvious, because you can't tell from the chat logs that both messages were posted almost simultaneously
 
Oh, sorry missed the history (I read backlog bottom to top) and it appeared to match the subject.
Mah bad
 
no probs
 
Anyways:
10 hours ago, by Cat Plus Plus
Removing code is fun.
 
put it away!
 
7:16 AM
a bile?
 
sbi
@sehe I went over to their room and suggested they flag for moderators instead.
@CatPlusPlus It's not only fun, it's also for the greater good. (Two goals that hardly ever seem to correlate match perfectly there.)
 
@sbi I marked most as invalid (the non-offensives out of context), the 1 (or 2?) offensive one 'valid' and the remaining (potentially offensive) as unsure. I just don't want to reward serial flagging
Good morning btw
Coffee time
 
mawnin
 
mornin'
@sehe these discussions make me glad I'm under 10k
 
Yeah, nothing quite like seeing 200 flags queued up
I just ignore it :)
 
sbi
7:29 AM
@sehe I wasn't sure what to do, which is why I went there and told them to knock it off. They said they had a troll over there, to which I suggested to call in a moderator, rather than annoy the rest of the chat.
 
@sbi Maybe one of these days I'll learn the patience to do that
 
sbi
@sehe It's not that I had been very patient with them. I did apologize, though. Twice. :-/
 
@sbi Hah. I just went over there and did 'full disclosure' on what I did with the flags. Mainly to demonstrate that serial flagging is going to be counterproductive, and also to lend a bit of support.
I like to think I was 'patient' - allthough I did jump right to the point :)
 
sbi
7:46 AM
@sehe Yeah, read through it. Good deed, thank you!
 
@sbi Not necessary :)
LOL Philip is having a hard time learning what not to post
 
Okay, seriously, there's always several WTFs going on in the Javascript room
I can't even see all the flags
 
cout << "Hello." << endl << "." << endl << "." << endl << "." << "\n"; // the code that made me lose faith in the human race.
 

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