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12:01 AM
@FredOverflow i was mostly active in the two discussions on the Christianity proposal: area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/11655/christianity
34
Christianity

Proposed Q&A site for committed Christians, experts in Christianity and those interested in learning more.

Currently in commitment.

 
@JohannesSchaublitb Unfortunately that topic may be too broad.... which would lead to too much controversial debate.
You have to separate protestants and catholics and mormons, etc.
 
12:15 AM
@Xaade First I read "morons", lol.
@JohannesSchaublitb A stackexchange for Christianity? Do you think that will take off?
 
@FredOverflow dunno. I haven't committed. I suspect I wouldn't use it much. although I engaged in discussions :)
 
It depends on its use
I think it needs more clarity
A "Biblical" Christianity SE might be a little better.
 
there is already one for those folks
 
Then you wouldn't get conflicts between Biblical and liberal Christianity
 
4
Evangelical Christianity

Proposed Q&A site for people who hold to the beliefs and norms of Evangelical Christianity.

Currently in defintion.

I think the Christianity proposal is for liberal Christianity
 
12:23 AM
It's hard to say is a homosexual sinning....
It's easier to say, does the Bible say homosexuality is a sin.
 
right. I would encourage the second style of questioning. first style is problematic i think
but even the second one is answered differently depending on how one interprets it
 
Really?
Ok... not going to go there.
... See what I mean?
@JohannesSchaublitb Problem is, most of the people committing don't seem to think that way.
 
hello
 
the bible was written in context. the writer saying that guys having sex with guys doesn't necessarily talk about homosexuality as a hereditary property. maybe he talked against "unnatural" acts? i.e sleeping with the opposite sex as a homosexual, or sleeping with the same sex as a heterosexual
 
world!
 
12:27 AM
I think I would be suited for that site, if it were to be a general site.
I'm good at putting big disclaimers on answers to questions like that....

Well this is what X believe, Y believe, and Z believe.
 
people of 2000 years ago didn't know about genes and all that.
 
Or LTP.
 
Well.... when they find a gene that governs serial killing....
Should we convert them?
 
sure we should according to the bible if we find we interpret the bible as forbidding it
 
i'm getting in trouble writing a proper extraction operator overload.
:-S
anyone got a good example of doing that safely and correctly?
google's useless.
 
12:29 AM
And if it were in context, and the writer didn't know about heriditary such..... then the writer meant what he said.

I'm not saying what I feel about it.... just saying that the reasoning that such things were unknown, then feigning context is a poor argument.
 
but independent from what the bible says if your intent is finding what to do and what not according to the bible, you have to take into account it is full of contradictions. you have to choose what guidelines to take from the bible and what not. choosing to accept men having long hair (forbidden new testament), but choosing to reject homosexual men is just an arbitrary and gruesome (imo) choice
 
In that case.... I'm going on a crusade to have everyone convinced that the bible doesn't forbid serial killing.... at which point, since the populus believes it isn't wrong.... then they interpreted it that way.

Interpretations are fallacies.
@JohannesSchaublitb Which is why you need to know the author.... otherwise you're wasting your time.... JUST BETWEEN US, we can develop circular arguments on ONE topic.
 
@JohannesSchaublitb you obviously haven't studied the bible seriously if you say it's full of contradictions.
 
Can you please both explain to me in 5 words or so what you are talking about (exactly) and then where both of you stand on it? I'm having trouble picking up on the discussion..
 
@wilhelmt well it's obvious it is. it contains simple counting bugs (not even only off by one) and bugs in several registers
 
12:33 AM
Wilmelm: I have studied the bible carefully and I can say i is full of contradictions.
 
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination."
 
The old testament vs. the new testament the biggest.
 
@JohannesSchaublitb if you ever go and argue with a smart religious person, i suggest you prepare better arguments than that.
@JohannesSchaublitb if you ever try to seriously listen to smart people that defend the bible, they've got some seriously smart arguments.
 
@wilhelmtell I don't buy that..
 
@Xaade so now you have that sentence. and another that says you shall not eat a completely fried steak is said to be an abomination too. nobody chooses to follow that.
 
12:35 AM
@JohannesSchaublitb now, i'm not religious myself, and I'm certainly not very smart when it comes to defending a book, but i'll tell you this: what is true, the one and only argument that i believed when i was a baby and still believe is true, is that neither side can win in this argument.
 
@wilhelmtell I think there are very smart arguments for ID but not for the bible.
 
I don't buy any of the atheist arguments people sold me when i was a baby any more.
 
I'm not saying what I feel, because honestly I feel trying to convince anyone they are sinning is a waste of time. If they aren't being led to discover Christ, they won't care what you say.
I personally believe in showing my life as an example.
Arguments about the Bible are a waste of time if you don't know the Author.
You cannot verify what is literal and what is figurative.
 
@Xaade people make arbitrary decisions and try to take random bible verses trying to justify them, but ignore a whole lot of others.
 
@wilhelmtell Intelligent design is another matter but the bible?
 
12:37 AM
@Johannes I understand that... but you're missing my point. You miss the overarching theme.
 
@wilhelmtell I was a dead serious christian. And I did believe everything in it, and just ignored every contradiction and I felt very bad about that. Until i gave up on that
 
If you don't know God as a personal being.... then the entire religion is just that.... a religion. It's a waste of time. A country club. A mysticism, that doesn't solve anything and only serves to cause strife.
 
@JohannesSchaublitb dumb people are irreversibly dumb. don't judge the book because of dumb arguments. i suggest you listen to a serious and intellectual argument about the bible. you'll see it's not that easy to win an argument here.
 
If you aren't interested in the Author of the book.... then there's nothing I can tell you that can resolve any problem you have with it.
 
@wilhelmtell well I did. i listened to several of those Christian rockstars
 
12:39 AM
There's no reasonable argument for the bible.
 
the truth is that religious people that talk in public are usually very smart. they tune their arguments to the audience that listens to them. that's why youtube videos in this domain are so futile; because usually they're not tued for you as an audience. but if you're smart and you actually go talk to a smart guy then he should be able to give you strong arguments.
 
And I was a serious christian too..
 
you might not be convinced (i wasn't) but you'll learn that your arguments aren't any stronger.
 
@72con there's no reasonable argument against.... no more than there is an argument against believing the universe wraps around at the edge, or relativity.
 
@wilhelmtell and the more I listen to them, the more funny it sounds. "Well, this you must understand it is meant symbolical." when at one place the bible talks about 2500 and the other place it talks about 2300 or some such
 
12:40 AM
@Xaade Sure there is.. It is in many places in direct contradiction with the world we live in.
 
@72con The world we live in is our perception of it.
 
it's not a matter about atheism about Christianity. it's about contradictions in the bible and claiming that there are none and claiming it'S "perfect"
 
Simple quantum physics...
 
@Xaade sure, and there is no disproving the bible, but it doesn't make it reasonable to believe in it.
 
A lot of the contradictions go away if you study the Hebrew
 
12:41 AM
I'm not talking just about the translation error which might exist, I'm talking about the big picture.
 
@72con There is no reason to believe in the Bible alone.... unless you know the God in it.
@72con If you think that... then you don't know much about how awful Hebrew is to translate.
For example.... were there angels on Jacob's ladder?
 
@JohannesSchaublitb i'm jewish myself, and to be honest my issue is not with the book but with the people. how they treat each other in the name of the book. so i just wouldn't leave in such a community.
but it's not the book i have a problem with. not even the religion. it's the people.
 
Again, I'm not talking just about internal inconsistencies, more I'm talking about how it fits together with the world we live in.
 
the problem is when you're dumb. when you need a mother fucking rabbi to think for you. that's when there's a problem.
 
@wilhelmtell well you seem to say you think the bible is perfect and without any contradictions
 
12:44 AM
No, it's inconsistent with the world YOU want to live in...
 
and that me, saying it has a lot of contradictions just wouldn't have "studied" it yet
 
@JohannesSchaublitb what? umm. where did you hear me say that?
no, totally not.
 
yes, but what editor does God use? Vi or Emacs?
 
12 mins ago, by wilhelmtell
@JohannesSchaublitb you obviously haven't studied the bible seriously if you say it's full of contradictions.
 
what i'm saying is that the thing is so vague that if you're smart you can make total sense out of it.
yes.
 
12:45 AM
10 mins ago, by wilhelmtell
@JohannesSchaublitb if you ever try to seriously listen to smart people that defend the bible, they've got some seriously smart arguments.
 
without any contradictions
full of contradictions

Those are not polar opposites.
 
what i'm saying is that if you have an idea in your mind, you read a text in another way then if you have another idea in your mind.
 
@Xaade The tower of babel; you believe that was how the languages in the world got dispersed?
 
in the software development vocabulary we call it "being stuck in a box".
 
one cannot make sense of direct contradictions. except when saying that one of the statements is just "symbolical", but then it defeats the whole purpose of saying that the bible is perfect, because you can just say that everything is "symbolical" and that it doesn't make any real statements
 
12:46 AM
@72con No.... I believe that was how X languages got dispersed at a certain point of time. There's nothing saying that the incident was the source of every branch of language....
 
@JohannesSchaublitb there are no contradictions there.
 
You have strawmanned that
 
@JohannesSchaublitb there are contradictions in your teachers' interpretations.
 
@wilhelmtell well as I said I don't just have an idea. I was a radical Christian. And I did get rid of it actively
 
@Xaade How did there come to be folks with so many different skin color? Adam and Eve may have been black and white but where did the rest come from+
 
12:47 AM
Ok i was never radical.
in fact i was never religious.
i just listened to conversations light-heartedly.
without ever taking action other than listening and reading.
'cause i don't care much other than learning and trying to see they're point of view.
 
@Xaade Do you think it's a bit weird that god created humans separately from the animals but then made us technically speaking animals (mammals, a bit like monkeys)?
 
@72con The same way that my daughter has different skin tone than me or my wife...... a gene pool can dynamically become diverse.
 
In such a short timeframe?
 
@72con Was there any reason to change the overall pattern?
@72con most animals have the same bone structure, just different sizes of particular bones.
 
I did put a cross above my bed with "Jesus" labeled on it
lol
 
12:49 AM
for example, i always considered the idea that the bible says to treat a woman with respect, yet demands she'll stay at the kitchen, as a contradiction.
 
It demands she'll stay at the kitchen?
 
today i don't think it's a contradiction, it's just a way of thinking i'll never in a lifetime accept.
 
and on my homepage I put a star of david
 
So, you actually think that god planted dinosaur bones in the ground before creating humans?
 
along with some biblical verse
 
12:50 AM
@72con Did I say that?
 
ok wtv guys i'm just stirring you to get attention
 
No, but that must be how you explain 65 million year old dinosaur bones being found?
 
seriously, this is the best subject out there to stir people with.
and by golly get attention
 
@Xaade isn't that just codepad.org/4jgsfnQ2 ?
 
12:51 AM
my fucking extraction operator is broken
and it's annoying me
because it's supposed to be fundamental
i should think it should be do-able with raii
 
@72con Let me ask you this. There's a bridge with a stalagmite that predates the bridge. There's a fossile of a trillobyte with a human foot in it. Both have been claimed to be hoaxes. However, when a scientist claims he found the missing link which turns out to be a pig tooth, or when a scientist invents a dinosaur for grant money.... no one loses faith in science......
Then why should I lose faith in my God.
 
but how do you undo stuff from an input stream
?
like
 
@Xaade belief in god requires faith. belief in science does not.
 
you take one token
take another
 
@FredNurk I disagree.
 
12:53 AM
then fail
 
that said, I'm on the more religious end of the spectrum; science and religion are not in contest
 
now what?
 
@wilhelmtell you're only guaranteed one char of putback
 
and fuck those stupid "retry" messages here
4
 
@FredNurk How much faith does it take to believe in relativity?
 
12:54 AM
@Xaade Again, I think it's sensible to believe in Intelligent design (as I do), just not the bible..
 
sometimes stackoverflow is trying to be too smart and it's friggin me out
 
@Runcible emacs for sure, being God he can press all keys at once to trigger the ultimate emacs command and create the universe.
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas I tried that once, some silly "your cat is on the keyboard" message came up
 
@72con I have my doubts on dating methods that place dates over a few thousand years old.... we have no context.
But people take it all on faith
That some scientist is right.
 
@Xaade I was a believer for 25 first years of my life. The only thing that could have changed that (and did) was that I decided to look at it objectively; without any presupposition, I set out to look at the evidence, not only looking for possible ways how it might be possible, that bible in fact is true.
 
12:56 AM
You can't replace a relationship with God..... with a religion....
 
@Xaade: most scientists don't "believe" in relativity. We think that it's a nice theory, which has so far predicted experimental data better than any competing theory. Any serious scientist would immediately reject it as a theory, however, if an experiment produced compelling evidence that falsified the theory. That's not belief.
 
@Xaade when i was radical, I claimed I wasn't religious
I did claim I know God, not practicing religion.
and it was nonsense. lol
well, the Christians say "How could you believe Sun is God?". I think one can answer "How could you believe Bible is from God?"
 
@Xaade according to the bible you are saved if you believe in Jesus and otherwise you go to hell. My 'god' (the one who has created us and the world we live in) would not make up something that illogical when the world we live in is so consistent. For example, it is questionable whether people have free will (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will) to choose what they believe in.
 
Simple thought then..... if a bridge suddenly collapsed... a complex bridge that was based totally on concepts of physics....
When investigated it turned out that physics has broken... and the world is about to rip apart without gravity to hold it together.

At what point would you convince people to trust that the scientists have a solution.

Whether scientists believe in science or just accept it. Information is information. Without intimate knowledge, any acceptance of a scientific discovery and applied in everyday life with a dependency...... is belief.
 
@Xaade: no. It's trust, which is fundamentally different from belief
 
1:00 AM
You believe in something.....
 
@72con free will is what you're destined to choose
 
How so.....
A good reason to trust....
 
"My 'god' (the one who has created us and the world we live in) would not make up something that illogical when the world we live in is so consistent." I think that's an illogical statement. God would not need any such considerations. He/She/it could just make it so the world is consistent again. Easy matter.
 
How is my belief in God not trust?
 
@FredNurk the world is deterministic.
 
1:01 AM
How do you know what I've known.... what has happened to me?
What I've heard, felt, seen, touched, and tasted.
 
@Xaade well he will not admit that he merely believes, because he fears that he commits the Eternal Sin
 
I trust scientific experts to faithfully interpret experimental data and report it. If I find that trust to be misplaced, I stop listening to that individual. Is there anything that could happen that would cause you to set aside your "trust" in religion?
 
I trust in my God more than I trust that my body will stay together in the next second.
 
@72con That's interesting food for thought, according to the bible a person that follows all the christian principles and does all that's good and so... but does not believe in God, will he go to Heaven or Hell? A person that follows a self centered life, takes advantage of others ... [fill all that's bad here], but believes in God and repents in his last instants of life, will he go to Hell or Heaven?
 
@Xaade You seem like a fundamentalist guy, I'm not going to waste my time any longer (need to sleep) but I bet you've never really questioned your belief. It might be a good exercise to really dig deep and investigate the matter, not look for reasons why you SHOULD believe..
 
1:02 AM
If a christian becomes a non-christian, according to the bible he will never be able to be Christian again
 
@72con that's just stating pascal's wager
 
so any radical Christian inherently fears a lot about this
 
You can't trust God, because you've never interacted with him/her. You're trusting an idea of god as portrayed in your religion.
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas according to the bible there's no question, he's going down..
 
Radical Christians say they know about God.
 
1:03 AM
@FredNurk what is?
 
Then they are taking the lords name in vain, which is a sin.
(according to the bible)
 
@72con You see.... there-in lies the difference. My faith was never placed on belief. My faith was placed on a trust in a God that I know personally. I don't need to question that any more than I question that my mom truly loves me. If I question the Bible, it is mutually exclusive from my trust in God, and as such will never invalidate my belief in God.
 
@72con if the world is deterministic, then it doesn't matter what I choose, so I choose to rob a bank, and what will happen would've happened anyway, right? – ohshi-- they don't parole you based on philosophy
 
@72con: which of the two? According to the Bible, if you don't believe in God you don't go to Heaven (am I right?) and if you confess and accept God for what God is, even if it is in the very last instant of your life, you will be saved.
 
@Xaade I don't buy that, because I know it's not true
 
1:04 AM
@FredNurk Pascal would have wagered differently, n'est pas?
 
you would be a gruesome person not to record some evidence of God's saying on your disk as a MP3 file and send it to us, so we know for sure about God
 
Pascal's Wager (or Pascal's Gambit) is a suggestion posed by the French philosopher, mathematician and physicist Blaise Pascal that, even though the existence of God cannot be determined through reason, a person should wager as though God exists, because living life accordingly has everything to gain, and nothing to lose. Pascal formulated his suggestion uniquely on the God of Jesus Christ as implied by the greater context of his Pensées, a posthumously published collection of notes made by Pascal in his last years as he worked on a treatise on Christian apologetics. However, some argue t...
 
You don't have a choice. I am me.... you can't know what I am truly....
To determine for me what my experiences were.....
Reality is perception. Could anyone other than me be equally decieved.
 
@Xaade So what you are saying is that you 'know' that the bible is true. God sure made it easy for you to believe - you don't even have to cause you 'know'. Free passage to heaven, congrats.
 
@72con he says that because he thinks he has God's spirit inside
 
1:06 AM
@72con That depends on whether you're Calvanist.
 
@Xaade: to say "a God that I know personally" is to take the lords name in vain. I'm pretty sure the bible comes down rather strongly against that.
 
@StephenCanon Then I'll gladly take my punishment.
 
@Xaade the bible says "Those are saved that don't know but still believe."
 
You really have no idea how deep my trust is do you.
 
(jesus said so to thomas)
 
1:07 AM
@FredNurk yes, I know Pascan's wager. Too opportunistic. Just one of the catches that keeps believers believe - keeps you running scared.
 
I left a couple of hours ago with what was the ultimate flamewar, that included LOTR, vi/emacs, windows/linux, spaces/tabs, placement of * in a pointer declaration... and yet I come back and it has escalated to God --Good night
 
I can't begin to explain my mind to anyone.
 
Then stop trying.
 
@Xaade we already know
 
1:08 AM
@FredNurk However, if you just let yourself think about it, there's enough evidence not to believe in the bible.
 
@Xaade deep inside you know we are right
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas there are nazis later on tonight; it's better than TV
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas: also cats vs. dogs
 
Cats are terrible animals. It is a fact.
Dogs are less terrible.
 
Got two..
 
1:09 AM
incidentally, the week after I got non-Christian, I first got drunk! aahaha
 
cats
 
no no, that's later tonight. Don't start already.
 
oh, sorry
 
should really hit the sack, been working 65-70 hour weeks and this one ain't gona be any shorter.
 
ow.
65-70 hour weeks are not humane.
You should look for a job outside of the sweatshop.
 
1:12 AM
It's not too bad since that includes the weekends.
 
hm that's a lot
 
I choose when I work and how much I work :)
 
I fail to see how including weekends makes it better =/
 
=It's not like I work 14 hours every day..
 
1:13 AM
If I had to I could do 14hr days. But I like my weekends.
 
It's only like 11 on avg. + less during the weekends.
And it's emporary.
t*
Long days aren't that bad as long as you make progress. It's tougher if you're stuck somewhere.
 
Don't feel like sleeping.
 
but still, you would have to pay me a lot for me to consider doing 70 hours on any consistent basis
 
It makes free time sweet when you've been working like a dog.
(=why I don't feel like sleeping although I got my wakeup call in less than 5hrs)
 
1:17 AM
Oh, my free time is already sweet. I'll take your word for it.
 
1:43 AM
Would anybody else here be interested in a stack exchange site for 3D graphics software? If so, please commit: area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/5022/…
 
 
5 hours later…
Tek
7:03 AM
Hi, is anyone around?
 
sbi
@Tek Nope. Nobody home.
 
Tek
Hah, very cute @sbi ;p
I wanted to ask what kind of database APIs there are for C++? I want to store large sets of data, except I don't want to store them on a server... Since I want anyone to be able to run the program
 
8:03 AM
sqlite
pqsql
and mysql have c libraries
sqlite is the only one I know that doesn't need the server part installed.
 
 
2 hours later…
10:32 AM
@72con what is "working like a dog"? is that sleeping 23 hours a day and licking your junk the rest of the time?
 
@FredNurk no, that would be working like a cat..
 
@JohannesSchaublitb What does the word "defintion" mean? :)
 
sbi
@FredOverflow "Define definition!"
 
@72con Any sufficiently large text is full of contradictions. Take the C++ standard as an example. (Which, for some folks here, is the bible.)
@sbi I'm not talking about the word "definition". The quote says "defintion".
 
The ratio of contradictions is much larger in the bible, I'm sure.
 
sbi
10:38 AM
@FredOverflow OH: I missed that. Well, then: "Defin defintion!" Better?
 
@72con Maybe some computer scientist could translate the bible into a formal specification and reveal all the contradictions? ;)
@sbi Defintly betr!
 
ah, you gotta love it when wikipedia gets cited as an authoritative source for the defintion of a religion
 
I think it has been more or less done already (probably not by cs's though)
 
For example, you could write down all the begettings (sp?) down as Prolog clauses...
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Zne zsmmbßn!
 
10:43 AM
@sbi Grtl ngr schnlln!
 
 
1 hour later…
11:52 AM
try { throw; } is so underused
3
 
12:10 PM
class c{ public: c(){ DoSomething(); delete this; } }; is far more fun
is there an easy way to scroll this chat back to the location of the starred messages on the right?
or is that list essentially useless if it relies on any context at all?
 
click on the timestamp
 
12:40 PM
@sbi: there is no "c++-faq" question about stream.good()/eof() testing in a loop. I have an answer I rather like, but is there a better candidate?
(or for anyone, if you know of one)
 
12:52 PM
is there a way to count words in a sentence? does that require some complex code or can it be done simply?
 
depends on what you mean by "word"
 
the words in a SQL Statement
SELECT BLAH FROM ...
 
if you just mean whitespace separated, int count = 0; istringstream ss (sentence); for (string word; ss >> word;) count++;
 
ok, and perhaps I can remove all comma's before hand
 
SQL has operators that will be counted as words this way, e.g. "( a * b )" vs "(a*b)"
 
12:55 PM
@FredN: That's pretty nasty, bunch of extra copying and dynamic allocation
I'd just copy the string out once, then use a numerical for to loop through
 
there's a difference between, premature optimization is the root of all evil, and, let's go make a bunch of dynamic allocs for no reason
 
but sure, when it matters you can change it, but that code won't fit on a line in this room :)
 
premature optimizations only count for when it takes some modicum of effort to perform
 
and don't forget to handle unicode whitespace characters other than space, tab, vertical tab, formfeed, and line endings, which my code does if the underlying system handles them; correct beats fast every day
 
12:58 PM
valid point
 
sbi
@FredNurk I'm not uncle FAQ. You're all grownups, old enough to decide for yourself.
 
you are uncle FAQ
4
 
@sbi I went ahead and did it, figuring it could be reversed; but I did want another pair of eyes that might've been more familiar with "c++-faq" :)
 
sbi
@DeadMG When trying to chop a string into words according to what operator>>(std::istream&, std::string&) does, not using this operator is premature optimization. (Well, unless you're writing library code, of course.)
 
what'S up folks
 
sbi
1:06 PM
@FredNurk Well, so I had a look. What I'm missing in your answer is that what the OP needs generally is a loop that checks in the middle (instead of before entering the loop's body), which we don't have in C++, so we need to emulate it. The ones you've shown are all instances of this, some of them tightened pretty well as is so common in C and C++, without you ever referring to that underlying problem.
@JohannesSchaublitb I see you are up (at 2pm), though I doubt you are up since more than a few minutes. :)
Anyway, I need to leave now.
 
@sbi hmm, I covered that in "Check the stream itself after the desired operation", but I suppose it could be emphasized; I'd welcome new answers to it as well, but I chose it for the faq as it is the most generically-written question I've seen about this problem
 
1:34 PM
Is it appropriate to downvote an answer that only says that the question is a duplicate? I have just downvoted an answer by an user with 25k+ rep that instead of voting to close the question just added a link...
If it was a new user... but someone with 25k+ rep
It's caught his attention, and I am weak... removed the downvote
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas flag it as "not an answer"
the new flagging options are really expanded
however, I have no idea how often the mods pay attention to them, but the blog post said they want to encourage use, so I've used them liberally
 
I flagged it as 'not an answer"
 
@Tony why, it is a good answer
 
@AlfPSteinbach: "It should possibly be … a comment, …" is the flag reason
 
@FredNurk bullshit
 
1:41 PM
indicating duplicate questions is not an answer
 
@AlfPSteinbach it is a duplicate question, better to tag it instead of posting a link
 
@Tony he did both, and that's best. you can't be sure that the question will be closed.
 
@AlfPSteinbach ok sure
 
@AlfPSteinbach who says it must be closed? with a comment he can indicate the other question just fine, it's not like he lacks the 50 rep to comment
 
@FredNurk what's the rationale of hiding the answer as a comment? wtf. would that accomplish?
 
1:45 PM
how would it be hidden as a comment? everyone can see comments and the OP is notified about comments on their question
 
@FredNurk wake up, please. if you think there's no difference as a comment, why do you want it as a comment.
 
pointing to a duplicate does not answer the question – especially if later consensus is that it is not a duplicate, as you said with "it may not be closed"
there is a difference, but it is not that one is hidden and the other isn't
answers should answer the question
 
@FredNurk i'm sorry but that sounds moronic. it is the answer and you think it's not an answer. that's pure idiocy.
 
no, the answer is the content on the linked question, not a link to the content
@AlfPSteinbach: for example, see my comment at stackoverflow.com/questions/4885676/…
if you are saying I should've posted that exact text "See <link>" as an answer, then we just fundamentally disagree
 
@FredNurk again, you don't sound like you're fully conscious. or maybe, recent brain damage? are you seriously suggesting he should have duplicated that book list?
 
1:50 PM
would you knock off the personal attacks?
 
@FredNurk what freaking purpose would that serve?
@FredNurk if they can get you thinking (since that's not my usual behavior) they'll have served well
 
yesterday, by Charles Bailey
Either way, most insults say more about the originator than the target.
 
@FredNurk stop reacting, start thinking, for fucks sake
 
regardless, I just lose interest in discussion when that happens, shrug
 
2:05 PM
I got an exam tomorrow and I have no clue about any of the content
 
@DeadMG that doesn't help does it?
 
nope
 
so get studying! lol
what's the exam about?
 
he doesn't know! :)
 
oh darn
UNDEFINED EXAM
 
2:08 PM
there should be an undefined behavior exam
 
lol
 
@DeadMG I'd throw an exception on your exam ("cannot access memory at address 0x0000000)
 
I'd pass that shit
nah
 
:p
 
formal specification
 
2:09 PM
oh shit, yea you told us about that
sounds boring!
 
indeed
I had an exam yesterday and it went pretty good I think
but my formal spec exam is going to go rather poorly, I feel
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas: the two answers were deleted, so apparently they pay attention to those flags :) (I can't recall what the other answer said)
 
the biggest question I find is
what's with all these dodgy symbols?
like, instead of & for and, which is pretty common, not just in programming, they have to go define their own symbol for it
 
2:28 PM
@FredNurk is that the one with Will Smith? the video causes some havoc with my firefox's plugin and so had to close it to write here. argh.
 
no will smith in sight
 
I can't even understand the dialog, but the CGI starts out about what I'd expect, then gets much more interesting
 
just wtf is that
every scene involving the morphing guys, there magically becomes more of them
 
I'm not sure, and I noticed several things like that, but it's still rather cool :)
 
2:40 PM
I disagree
he must be fighting an entire army
more to the point, an army that can't notice how ineffective it's bullets and infantry are
 
 
1 hour later…
3:43 PM
@AlfPSteinbach I have been asked to determine whether the linked comment is offensive. I have let it be as it is, but I must add that I strongly disagree with this use of the language, more so the comment above: "recent brain damage"
@AlfPSteinbach, on the particular issue of discussion my position is that, while adding a question with just a link can arguably add some value, closing as duplicate and thus merging the two questions to a single list of answers adds much more value.
Maintaining two different questions that are effectively the same will only disperse the answers and make them harder to find, in principle. In particular if the user can vote to close, that should be the number one option.
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas yes, merging is good, but not as sole action (because it's not guaranteed to happen). it's not either-or, and the person who answered very sensibly did both. and yes my comments were offensive. they were intentionally designed to be. :-)
 
@AlfPSteinbach, if the question is closed as duplicate merging is unnecessary.
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas may be unnecessary, and in this case, certainly unnecessary, since answers both very sensibly linked to the book list instead of duplicating it
 
I have seen it many times before, where a question is asked and by the time I take a look at it, it has already been flagged as duplicate, with no answers, and there is a link in the very header of the question to the original one
 
I believe David meant merging in a symbolic sense, rather than the specific moving of answers that happens when moderators merge questions – and a comment accomplishes that better than a non-answer
 
3:49 PM
That, itself, adds value over merging, since it will leave the two questions (more potential words to search for) and still a single source of answers
 
@FredNurk but the answer was not a non-answer. it was not just a good answer, it was the full and complete answer. combined with a vote to close. i cannot see anything wrong with that. on the contrary. should not be downvoted.
 
sbi
@DavidRodríguezdribeas FWIW, I flagged this message. If there's an even more insulting one, I'm sorry to have missed it (while skimming over the conversations of the last few hours).
 
it should not be downvoted, it should be deleted or moved to a comment
 
I did not know that I could mark as "not an answer", and before today I have only added comments to this type of answers, but the fact that someone with power to vote as duplicate is just adding noise to the system... I don't like it
3
 
@FredNurk let's say one did that. someone googles up question and looks at things. will they get directed to best answer by a comment, when there are other answers as answers?
 
3:51 PM
@FredNurk Then again, it proved to work: after a few seconds of the downvote+comment the user had voted to close the question :)
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas not necessarily cause and effect
 
sbi
@Alf: As I see it, you're pretty much alone with that POV. Traditionally, "this is a dupe!" messages have been posted as a comment, not an answer (because they don't answer the question). People on SO agreed on that long before you and I joined the party, so all we can do is to obey the rules, whether we like it (we do) or not (as you).
 
@AlfPSteinbach yes, you see comments when you view a question
 
@AlfPSteinbach I think there is a misunderstanding here, the link in the comment should not be to a particular answer, but rather to the duplicated question
 
@AlfPSteinbach and when the community "agrees" that it's a duplicate, there is a very prominent notice added
 
sbi
3:54 PM
@David: FWIW I usually downvote answers that aren't, as that tends to get the attention of the poster, unless whoever did it is obviously a newbie, in which case I explain that this is wrong and should be deleted.
 
@FredNurk there is no prominent notice until that duplicate status is agreed on. i don't see the problem. would you care to explain what harm that good answer does?
 
it is not a good answer, it is not even an answer
 
Again, I don't think that this is worth much more discussion, and I am sure it does not deserve the language used a while ago.
 
@FredNurk the c++ book list on SO is the most complete and best quality I know of. it's silly to say that it's not an answer. It is the answer
 
@AlfPSteinbach but let's turn it around, what harm does a comment do? if someone is unwilling to read comments, aren't they just as unwilling to read answers?
 
3:55 PM
@AlfPSteinbach, it is not that the answer removes value, it just does not add. At the same time, by answering instead of voting to close (and in my opinion) you are not opting for a greater value solution.
 
@AlfPSteinbach this answer was not a book list, it was a link to another question
 
sbi
Yeah, please stop wasting bandwidth. @Alf: We agree with the SO way to treat such non-answers. You can try to understand it (no, so far you have not tried) or keep fighting it, but the rest of SO is not going to change.
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas but that guy did vote to close. and the answer did add value. anyone browsing into that question would (before removal) have been directed to the best list of C++ books known
 
I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree
 
@AlfPSteinbach I am not sure we are in the same level here. My take is that "the question is not a question and should be closed", not that "the answer is not an answer" per se.
 
3:57 PM
@sbi it's just silly. you want to force people to abid by red light / green rules, OK. you want them to do that and ignore the real situation, the traffic, that's silly and rather counter-productive, unless the aim is to create traffic accidents.
 
@AlfPSteinbach He voted to close, after I downvoted his answer and added a comment. Whether downvoting a "correct" answer is appropriate or not, the fact is that achieved the overall desired result
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas it was a question; it just happened to be a question that had been asked before in a close enough way
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas yes, i agree on closing (not sure if i voted), and the question is closed
 
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