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12:07 AM
1
Q: Call static lib function embedded in DLL

greydetLet's say the following architecture: A static library is used/linked within a DLL The DLL is loaded (either implicitly or explicitly) by an executable Is it possible from the executable code to access code of the static library without relinking it explicitly nor inserting wrapper functions ...

seems like that is the structure i have
but my wrapper functions in the dll i created still can't seem to be seen by
exe
for every export function i have an import function in the exe
so now i am suspecting my dll linking with the static lib
perhaps there is something going on in there
 
no
you MUST link the .exe with the static lib
that's where the linker puts the loading code & shit
I'm amazed the exe will even compile without it
 
it apparently does. so even though i have a dll which is man in the middle
i would still need the exe to link to it as well as the dll (which was created with the static lib)
static.lib->>>dll.lib/dll.dll created ->>> exe linked with dll.lib which dll.dll in the same dir as the exe.
this is what i was doing
 
@DeadMG you can access the dll's functions directly with LoadLibrary/GetProcAddress
without linking to the .lib
 
yeah, if you know the name mangling algorithm
which is not only proprietary, IIRC, but changes between releases
plus, dllimported functions are faster (and much simpler) to call than those found with GetProcAddress
 
12:23 AM
do i have the dll.lib files with the exe and no cigar. can't seem to run that code. but compiles and builds fine.
so*
in that exe i have the .cpp which does the import for the export in the dll.lib header which is visible to the exe
 
evening all
 
evening
if I do a bunch of switch/case with a modern compiler,will it almost guaranteed go down to a jump table?
 
not sure if guaranteed, but I'm pretty sure it would do that most of the time
 
12:42 AM
well, I guess I'd rather trust to it's heuristics than try to force O(1) with something like a hash map
 
right
ugh, I have a stomach ache :(
 
trust me when I say: I feel your pain
 
yes I trust you :)
Funny, cause someone else in this house also has a stomach ache
are they contagious or something?
 
depends on the cause
 
no idea about the cause
 
12:48 AM
well, they're not directly contagious, but there's no reason for there not to be a joint cause
 
for example, bad food, contaminated cookware
 
right
funny thing is though, the other person got it yesterday evening, I only got it tonight
like half an hour ago
 
if you shared any food or utensils, I'd look at that funny
 
what do you mean, look at that funny?
 
12:53 AM
well, if you share cooking utensils, you could wash them up again
if you shared food, you could consider throwing out any still remaining
 
oh I see
 
wash hands
 
It's a spider plot to take over the house.
You need to strike preemptively.
 
1:22 AM
Just out of curiosity, what's your guy's preferred IDE for C++? I've been using codeblocks for a while now, but from looking at Eclipse, I have a feeling I could be using something better...
 
@Shalmezad codeblocks is nice. visual studio is possibly on its way back to goodness with version 11.
i answered yet another question!
1
A: Distinguishing between failure and end of file in read loop

Alf P. SteinbachIt is very easy to differentiate between EOF and other errors, as long as you don't configure the stream to use exceptions. Simply check stream.eof() at the end. Before that only check for failure/non-failure, e.g. stream.fail() or !stream. Note that good is not the opposite of fail. So in gene...

 
@AlfPSteinbach I agree with that. Looks like he wants all the data at once (at the end), which would require a couple of flags. Also, wouldn't it fail at the end of file anyways because you can't read anymore?
 
1:44 AM
I don't use any IDE.
 
user457812
I tie magnets to hummingbirds who then dance on my hard drive.
 
user457812
That said, I use vim, a terminal, and xcode for building stuff that needs xcode for building stuff. Otherwise I use Makefiles (since I wrote a little script to generate Makefiles, because reinventing the wheel is fun)
 
2:01 AM
@CatPlusPlus @nil Just out of curiosity, why don't you two use an IDE? Is it just a personal preference?
 
user457812
Because I don't need one for personal projects.
 
Quiz question: If you had to say in one word why exceptions are a crucial component of C++, what would the word be?
 
user457812
I'm not working on gigantic projects with millions of lines of code, so I don't really have a use for an IDE. I do also use Xcode for refactoring stuff occasionally, though.
 
user457812
@KerrekSB "Standards."
 
@KerrekSB idiot-case
 
user457812
2:03 AM
Standards say they're crucial.
 
user457812
Well, Standard.
 
@nil Nah, I think there's a better answer. I mean, a "real" answer.
 
user457812
What's a "real" answer?
 
@nil One that's a logical consequence of the language design.
 
user457812
In that case, don't limit it to one word, because that is stupid.
 
2:04 AM
If it's too hard, you can take one entire sentence if you like, but I think one word is enough.
 
Handling problems that come with flexibility.
 
user457812
If you want one word, safety is probably one reason.
 
user457812
But that's just one tiny facet, I'd say
 
I'm thinking of something very concrete, and something that couldn't have been done in any other way
 
user457812
What's concrete mean in the context of a language made up of abstractions?
 
user457812
2:07 AM
And there's really nothing about exceptions that couldn't have been done in any other way.
 
Non-fatal error handling. How do you otherwise stop an error-prone operation if something fails?
 
@Shalmezad Why would I need an IDE?
 
@StackedCrooked How about bool statement = !statement;? ;)
 
@nil I think there's one thing that really couldn't have been done otherwise.
 
@FredOverflow Dammit.
 
user457812
2:09 AM
What do you think that one thing is?
 
@ManofOneWay Sure, the JVM is way more complicated and performance-sensitive then javac.
 
user457812
@CatPlusPlus To be cool.
 
user457812
I have to ask what said one thing is because I don't know what you're fishing for and you seem to know what you're trying to get.
 
@FredOverflow Actually, I think that would translate to: "This statement is not this statement."
 
@nil: I've always wanted to ask, aren't you getting tired of being the last pseudo element of every singly linked list? ;)
 
user457812
2:11 AM
@FredOverflow Singly-linked lists are for chumps
 
Singly linked lists are very popular in FP.
 
user457812
Chumps!
 
@Kerrek SB Let's say I open an SQL db. Before, I would have to check EVERY single possible error case to make sure it opened correctly. With exceptions, it will let me know if there's an error, and I can catch and handle ones I can handle.
So in a way, it's for easy error handling
 
Are parsing errors really that exceptional? :) I prefer Haskell's Either approach when it comes to parsing errors.
 
user457812
Ba-dum-tish?
 
user457812
2:14 AM
I think I need to get a legal name change
 
@nil User notnil = *nil?
 
user457812
Need to give the e in my name an umlaut
 
> I was adding my own gui textbox using classes, when I clicked the textbox, it says false
great question :)
 
@FredOverflow FredO, want to take a shot at the "one word why exceptions are necessary" quiz?
 
@KerrekSB constructors?
 
2:17 AM
@FredOverflow Yay, 100 points!
 
How can I spend the 100 points?
 
You can throw them at people, one by one.
 
> I am deaf, and Im not good speaking and/or question.
that makes sense
 
user457812
@KerrekSB Now explain how constructors necessitate exceptions? O_o
 
Because constructors cannot return error codes or something?
 
2:18 AM
@nil Think about it: There must be a way for object construction to fail. Yet constructors do not have a return value, and also an object is considered "alive" once any constructor returns.
 
user457812
That in itself doesn't actually make exceptions necessary, though.
 
So the only possible way for object construction to fail is by throwing an exception.
 
user457812
It just makes exceptions convenient.
 
but, couldn't the constructor just set a flag? like nil said, it's more a convenience than a necessity then
 
@nil No, necessary. Otherwise you'd have a language in which there is no room for potential failure of object construction.
 
user457812
2:20 AM
Doesn't that just mean that C++ constructors are poorly designed?
 
@Shalmezad Think about unwinding and member destruction. None of this could work sensibly in any manual attempt you might be suggesting.
 
@nil How else would you have designed them?
 
What if you make an array of ten and the fifth element fails to construct?
 
user457812
I don't know, the point is that it could've been designed to allow constructors to fail (that is, without exceptions).
 
What if that array has been new[]ed?
Who will call the deallocator?
 
user457812
2:21 AM
Don't know, leave that up to someone who designs languages.
 
user457812
The point I'm making is that it's not actually necessary, it's just the choice they made. Probably not a completely arbitrary choice, but it should be obvious that constructors themselves do not necessitate exceptions.
 
So much of the language is built around the notion of objects that a language in which objects had no option of failing to come alive would be all but useless.
 
And at this point, I am over my head. Ah well, at least it means I can still learn...
 
user457812
Objective-C gets around it by decoupling allocation and initialization, so that's one (not quite pretty) option.
 
It's really, really ugly option.
 
user457812
2:24 AM
It is, but it's an option.
 
user457812
The point of which is that exceptions are not the only option.
 
(Of course you could have designed an entirely different language. But let's say we want something that is still C++ in spirit (e.g. direct control, don't-pay, etc.)
 
user457812
The main issue I have in the end is your word choice, @KerrekSB >_>
 
Think about the intimate coupling between allocation and construction that the new expression introduces. Designing this correctly without exceptions would be a hideous monster that would defeat the whole idea of C++...
@nil Which one?
 
user457812
The use of "necessary"
 
2:26 AM
He probably means "necessary, given the design goals of C++".
 
user457812
Which would be a more accurate statement if he'd said that.
 
Okay, let's burn him at the stake then, shall we?
 
user457812
With lemons?
 
Well, simply in the sense of "you cannot remove them from the language without truly breaking it". There's no workaround in the current language in which you could write correct (sufficiently general) code without exceptions.
 
user457812
Would be really nice if Skyrim downloaded a little faster
 
2:28 AM
Not as in "in any hypothetical other language, which part makes exceptions necessary"!
 
What would you replace exceptions with? Error codes? It's certainly not a better option.
 
user457812
And if I didn't have to school my little sister on what's appropriate to post on Facebook
 
@nil What is Skyrim? Space porn?
 
user457812
Yes, space porn.
 
@nil you can have exceptions, or dynamic allocation, or zombie objects. take your pick.
 
2:29 AM
With dragons.
 
user457812
I like zombie objects, because it has "zombie" in the name.
 
brraaaiiiins
 
I know that compilers offer the option of disabling exceptions, and people repeatedly think it's a good idea to do without them. So I was wondering if they're really just convenience, or something deeper. But I've come to the conclusion that they're fundamentally necessary in C++ in order to be able to write correct programs, with no way around (short of only writing C).
 
user457812
Hm, time for a muffin.
 
2:31 AM
Muffins... every keyboard's best friend! I think Windows even has a feature for "sticky keys", not sure how that's implemented...
 
user457812
Sticky keys, the one thing everyone who reinstalls Windows forgets and then screams about when they finally get that wonderful popup.
 
Alright, before I go, any advice on what to learn next? I'm still somewhat of a novice, but I've covered all the basic stuff up to and through classes (including inheritance, polymorphism, etc.)
 
templates
 
user457812
Seconding that motion.
 
@KerrekSB Many companies do without exceptions in much of their C++ code, like Google and Opera. AFAIK it's because they want to support all kinds of platforms for the same code. I.e., they haven't found a practical enough way to factor out platform dependent code.
 
2:33 AM
@Shalmezad What books do you own?
 
And then from templates? I've heard design patterns would also be a logical step.
 
@AlfPSteinbach No, Google does it because they had a massive legacy C codebase and didn't want to pay interop costs.
 
user457812
hisses at the mention of design patterns
 
@Shalmezad You never finish learning templates.
7
 
@FredOverflow Not much. Just a basic classroom C++ book, and code complete. Have yet to read code complete though
 
2:34 AM
@Shalmezad Then you should buy Effective C++, probably.
Also, what "basic classroom C++ book" is that?
 
@DeadMG maybe :)
 
@nil Sorry, robotics group wants one of the mentors to learn design patterns, and I volunteered (not knowing what I was getting into)
@FredOverflow Hold on, let me check, it's buried in my mess of a room.
 
user457812
@Shalmezad Just don't go full-retard after reading about design patterns.
 
design patterns fit your code, or they don't
 
@nil That's pretty much impossible.
 
2:36 AM
people try to force them in when they don't fit
the result is bad
 
user457812
@FredOverflow We must have hope, if only to keep the madness at bay.
 
Trying not to go retard. Only one I've learned so far is state-event, and I've only found a few places it could fit.
 
Well, at least you didn't start with the S-word design pattern ;)
 
lol
 
user457812
Although that said, I don't think I've ever learned anything about design patterns, so I'm talking out my ass about 'em.
 
2:37 AM
I've also read horror stories. Something about singletons being evil
 
You said the S-word!
 
user457812
HE SAID THAT WHICH SHALL NOT BE NAMED
 
user457812
Damn space porn, download faster!
 
Can't you buy space porn on DVD these days?
 
user457812
Might be able to, but I don't have a DVD drive
 
2:39 AM
but that costs money
 
user457812
So I have to get my fix off of Steam, which is basically space porn central.
 
@FredOverflow Can't find the C++ book right now, but it was the equivalent of my high-school book: get you through classes.
 
I have a DVD drive, and I use it quite frequently. Not for space porn, though. More like sitcoms.
 
user457812
Friend of mine took several C++ courses in college, never got to classes until around the time he graduated
 
@Shalmezad Is it a normal book I can buy at amazon?
 
2:40 AM
@FredOverflow Probably.
 
@nil using classes or implementing classes?
 
user457812
Either or both. Apparently classes in general never came up.
 
lol
 
That's certainly strange. How did they even explain std::cout << "hello world\n"; without going into classes eventually? :)
 
user457812
I have no idea. Probably used printf.
 
2:42 AM
probably printf
 
probably the same way they did with me, using namespace std;
 
user457812
But that would still have to go into classes.
 
didn't learn about the std class until I worked with SDL on my own time
 
@Shalmezad using namespace std; is just about being lazy about qualifying names.
 
user457812
2:43 AM
std isn't a class..
 
yeah- cout << "Hello World\n" is only explainable with operator overloads, and therefore classes
 
user457812
Well, it's a class of disease, but that's a different context.
 
They just said it was "necessary" for printing stuff without an explanation
 
Well, it isn't.
 
2:43 AM
@AlfPSteinbach Interesting. I wonder what their code looks like... e.g. do they permit the possibility of allocation failures? That said, I truly love Opera, but I'm never surprised by its semi-regular crashes...
 
Then of course, came the crash course in pointers (also never covered in class)
 
Pointers suffer from poor teaching examples like int i; int* p = &i; *p = 42;
 
user457812
Weird, considering the grand total of two C++ courses I took covered both classes and pointers in the first introductory course fairly early on.
 
dude
wtf did you do in your C++ class if not pointers and classes?
 
user457812
printf!
 
2:45 AM
templates maybe? :)
 
I get classes, somewhat, some people teach C++ as C
but neither classes nor pointers?
holy shit, that must have been the quickest C++ course ever
 
They never touched it except for a brief mention in arrays and classes that "your variable is a pointer to the memory location"
 
user457812
My instructor was awesome.
 
no data structures, no algorithms, not even goddamn reading input from command line
 
Teaching C++ without pointers is totally possible. We don't cover pointers until the very last week.
 
2:46 AM
yeah, but neither pointers nor classes?
 
You can do algorithms with iterators, no need for pointers.
 
And sadly, it wasn't the quickest, it was SLOW. I made an ascii space invaders while waiting for everyone to finish bubblesort
 
Right, C++ without classes is pretty much impossible.
 
user457812
Oh, it's definitely possible, but ignoring both is just insane.
 
user457812
It's basically setting the student up for failure
 
2:47 AM
They covered classes, someone else mentioned not having them
 
@Shalmezad How did you write a bubblesort without pointers or classes?
oh ok
 
user457812
Yeah, that was my friend who didn't do classes 'til his last class.
 
@DeadMG int arrays?
 
user457812
Which was the last course offered by his school, apparently.
 
still requires a pointer and size
 
2:48 AM
You can disguise pointer arguments as "array" arguments.
 
user457812
Requires a pointer?
 
@DeadMG Hehe. Stepanov had a big rant the other day about bubble sort in some talk I watched. He says universities spend way too much time teaching entirely useless information :-)
I think he bemoaned the fact that Knuth devotes 17 pages to it.
 
user457812
Who knows, maybe he'd just write the entire thing in main
 
Checking my notes, we did use the pointer, but we didn't know what it was
yet again: "this symbol is necessary for passing arrays" without explanation
 
I usually don't have a problem with using stuff without understanding it, but that strategy doesn't work with pointers at all.
 
2:49 AM
Didn't even know you could have a function pointer until today
 
Please don't ask how to convert functions pointers to void* ;)
 
that's ok, function pointers suck balls
 
Actually, I used function pointers for a simple state driven program
 
user457812
Indeedy.
 
About the only use I could see for it
typedef void (*state)();
std::map<stateID,state> stateEngine::stateMap;
 
2:51 AM
typdefs are for sissies ;)
 
they're absolutely useless when you learn std::function
 
only way I could get the map of function pointers to work, otherwise I wouldn't use it (yet again, typedef is another thing never taught)
 
@DeadMG Many schools haven't even caught up with C++98 (yes, 98) yet and you speak of std::function? ;)
 
let's see, what else wasn't covered: std (pretty much everything except cout), enum, interfaces, etc.
 
enums aren't that useful imho
What do you mean by "interfaces"? Purely abstract base classes?
 
2:54 AM
In java, the class Student implements Person, forcing the class to implement it's members. Not sure how to describe it since my knowledge of it comes from the internet
 
C++ doesn't have a strict term for classes which have pure virtual functions
 
user457812
C++ is not Java.
 
except telling you that you can't create one
 
Personally, I think Java's interfaces are a good thing. Let the flamewars begin :)
 
It is a good thing. Used it in a genetic AI implementation for defining a generic "node" which could then be a variable node (x, y, or constant) or an operation node (+, *)
But anyways, back to c++. At this point, the general recommendation is for me to learn templates?
 
2:58 AM
I recommend you learn C++ by reading a good C++ book.
727
Q: The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List

grepsedawkUnlike many other programming languages, which are often picked up on the go from tutorials found on the Internet, few are able to quickly pick up C++ without studying a good C++ book. It is way to big and complex for doing this. In fact, it is so big and complex, that there are many bad C++ book...

 
es
templates are essential
 
I think I'm going to have to do that. I know that my teachers did not cover enough, and I have 2 years until I switch to a different university.
Well, thank you for your help guys. Been fun talking with people who actually know something about C++ (unlike the rest of my class)
 
user457812
3:19 AM
If I ever claim I know C++, smack me.
 
why?
also gladly
 
cpx
but I rarely use typedefs
 
3:42 AM
me too
 
user457812
4:01 AM
@DeadMG Because I suck at the C plus pluses.
 
4:38 AM
Ugh, subversion takes forever to respond.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:10 AM
Unity Launcher is totally gay.
It notifies the user by wiggling the icon.
 
lo
 
For my hobby project I find that the majority of the time is spent on maintenance. Creating cross-platform builds, fixing broken platform builds, merging stuff, updating libraries..
 
that's true for all projects, if I'm not mistaken
 
I could make it easier for myself by limiting myself to one platform.
But for some reason I always try to make it work for Windows, Mac and Linux.
 
what is the project?
 
6:25 AM
My Tetris thingy.
 
ah yes
that is always fun because of the different OS APIs
 
Now I created a branch where I'll try to replace the locks with Jalf's STM library.
 
even if you stick to just OpenGL for rendering
 
Yeah, I'm using Qt. Every library is cross-plaform. But still.
 
if you're using Qt and every library is cross-platform, then why are you having to maintain it for various platforms?
 
6:27 AM
I also like to have a self-contained repository. So I want to provide all 3rdParty headers and libs.
So I end up building Poco and boost libs for different platform and architecture combinations.
 
that sounds excessive
 
I also started using CMake. The combination of CMake and Qt is nice. But I haven't managed to make this work on Windows yet. There I'm still using VS2008 projects.
@DeadMG It probably is.
 
no probably about it
 
I have this ideal where one only needs to checkout my code, followed by a ./configure && make and everything just works.
 
./configure && make? ewwwww
I'll take a VS2008 project any day
 
6:30 AM
But reaching that ideal can be a lot of work, esp if you want to support multiple platform & architecture combos.
VS2008 isn't very Linux and Mac friendly..
 
true
but it's not as disgustingly terrible and hideous as that make shit
you open it, you push build, and it works
vastly superior
 
CMake is promising because it can generate VS and Xcode projects. But the generated projects sometiimes fail to build. And I am clueless as to how to figure out why. So in the end I let CMake generate plain makefiles.
@DeadMG I'm not sure if VS project configuration is superior to Makefiles. It often requires way too much clicking. Esp if your solution has many projects.
 
here's a tip
if you send your project to someone else, they double click it to open it in Visual Studio and it's done
therefore, it's unquestionably superior
 
Makefiles just require the user to type make.
 
Hey! I'm giving ALL of my reputation (well, 100 points, I have 101) for an answer...
0
Q: Norwegian keyboard keys don't work with Ubuntu in VirtualBox

Alf P. SteinbachI just installed VirtualBox (from Oracle) in Windows 7, and created a virtual machine with latest Ubuntu. Here in Firefox I can use the left Ctrl key, while the right one doesn't have any effect. However, I can't use the AltGr key (also known as Right Alt) to produce e.g. curly braces like {} (I...

 
6:35 AM
@AlfPSteinbach I recently purchased a US keyboard (not even US International) because I got tired of having to use different keyboard configurations.
 
@StackedCrooked You forgot ./configure &&
and wait, I'm in the wrong directory in my commandline, and all of that bullshit
with visual studio, you double click the project, and it loads and it's done
 
If you limit yourself to one platform than most of the problems I mentioned don't apply.
 
I guess that technically, Visual Studio targets x86, x64 and Itanium
all Windows, of course
 
Those would be architectures.
Platform is returned by uname and architecture with arch on *nix systems. So my link command looks something like "3rdParty/Boost/lib/uname/arch/libboost_thread.a".
Backticks are swallowed, damn.
It's almost 8 AM. I can almost buy food. Yay :D
 
you know
it occurs to me that if I modify my intended syntax a little bit, it would be executable Lua
 
6:48 AM
But your language is static and Lua is dynamic, right?
 
oh
I'm going to write a parser generator tool first
I actually have a sweet idea as to how I'm going to make it infinitely better than Bison
 
Just using good C++ style will be a good start I think.
 
agreed
how about something like this
 
Looks a bit like JSON.
 
Lua had something like that long before Java or JavaScript ever existed
 
7:01 AM
Brb, grabbing some food.
 
7:48 AM
This is just a personal preference, but I think defining your grammer with s-expressions would be cool.
 
wtf even are s-expressions
 
The are list literals in Lisp.
 
no, absolutely not
 
There's also YAML. The markup language that is super-cool in theory and one that I never managed to actually use in practice.
 
still no
why not just define it in XML or something equally silly
 
7:53 AM
xml?
Hah.
You beat me to it.
I recently read something about Literate programming. A paradigm promoted by Donald Knuth. He turned out to be the only user though.
 
lol
 
8:06 AM
pretty much, yeah
cause the language was way more complicated than, say, C
ever seen WEB?
 
You mean like the Internet?
Being more complicated than C shouldn't be sufficient cause for a language to fail. See C++.
 
nope. WEB is the language knuth made for his literate programming thing
 
I read a recent interview with Knuth where he claims to have programmed some things in it that he would never have been able to do in another language.
> Some of my major programs, such as the MMIX meta-simulator, could not have been written with any other methodology that I’ve ever heard of. The complexity was simply too daunting for my limited brain to handle; without literate programming, the whole enterprise would have flopped miserably.
We'll just have to take his word for it.
 
i'm gonna call bullshit
perhaps some other system might make it easier...or if you're a tex junkie
 
8:16 AM
heh
 
gay guy with scoliosis?
 
Pretty much.
^ I love this movie.
 
what is the lifetime of temporary or rvalue when bound to rvalue ref ? same as const lvalue ref?
 
8:40 AM
yeah
 
@DeadMG then why this thing works : A a; A&& a_ref2 = a; // an rvalue reference but article says we can bind rvalue ref to only rvalues , but in the example we bound it to lvalue , isn't this a contradiction? , does lvalue converts to rvalue implicitly?
 
it used to
but everyone discovered that it was horrendously unsafe
so it was changed in a draft
that's not legal C++11 but it was legal in some previous draft
 
@DeadMG aah , thanks
 
in C++11 there is a std::move to make an rvalue from lvalue
but it has to be explicitly invoked
 
template <class T>
typename remove_reference<T>::type&&
move(T&& a)
{
    return a;
}
:1856315 I am reading this article actually : open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2006/…
 
8:46 AM
never read it, but I know that the rules have been changed and recently
there are more up to date articles on rvalue references on MSDN
 
@DeadMG oh, i'll search them , anyways , can you please explain what happens when we pass lvalue to std::move? (i am very new to move semantics )
what is the type of T&& a then?
 
how about you search them first
 
@DeadMG ok , Thanks :)
 

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