F#

A place to learn and teach. Also consider F# Slack - fsharp.or...
May 29, 2015 00:27
@ReedCopsey pleh, ideone? Use dotnetfiddle.net much better online IDE with F# support: dotnetfiddle.net/7IsbCV
Nov 15, 2014 05:13
@S.R.I rosettacode is good for this a lot of times.
Nov 14, 2014 22:05
@BryanEdds the concept of science, yes, the application of science... Far too little from-the-gut Truthiness in it, thus why people so commonly accuse people who are "book smart" of not having "common sense" aka -> They don't know the things I feel to be true
Nov 14, 2014 22:03
> Both Brawlers and Expert Experts are an attempt at managerial arrogation over a field (computer programming) that is utterly opaque to non-technical managers. Brawlers are the tough-culture variety who attempt to establish themselves as top performers by externalizing costs to the future and “the maintenance team” (which they intend never to be on). Expert Experts are their rank-culture counterparts who dress their mediocrity and lack of curiosity up as principled risk-aversion.
Nov 14, 2014 22:03
@BryanEdds Expert Experts
Nov 14, 2014 22:01
@BryanEdds you say that as if anti-science isn't a common stance from people
Nov 14, 2014 22:01
@BryanEdds truth.
Nov 14, 2014 21:59
it's a time up front vs. time in the end, this industry is obsessed with the belief that they don't have to spend time up front or in the end, so the vast majority of decisions in this industry are based around not spending time up front and hoping they gambled right and won't spend time in the end either
Nov 14, 2014 21:57
@JeroldHaas yes but they can argue about the source of that time loss, many would rather use the conveniences and then just say No True Scotsman has those problems because No True Scotsman does it that way
Nov 14, 2014 21:52
@JeroldHaas it's not about coping, it's just about choice: Much of the enterprise world has an unbounded laziness that will always choose the easier option. Or good companies won't hire me so my perspective is totally skewed, who knows...
Nov 14, 2014 21:51
@JeroldHaas it's not that I use them, it's that nuget package publishers use them
Nov 14, 2014 21:50
^-- I completely agree with this stance and approach, but this makes it basically a non-starter for many as they expect their packages to be installed batteries-included - folks don't want to have to read documentation to find out what they have to add to their web/app.config, or for PostSharp for instance it actually installs shit into Visual Studio itself and binds itself to be a part of the compile so it can do the IL weaving
Nov 14, 2014 21:49
> No, we don't run any script or program from NuGet packages and we have no plans to do this in the future. We know that this might cause you some manual work for some of the currently available NuGet packages, but we think these install scripts cause more harm than good.
Nov 14, 2014 21:47
irritating as shit.
Nov 14, 2014 21:47
^-- this caused innumerable runtime errors with Log4Net for me which I had to fix manually each time someone new did a deployment of some of our apps...
Nov 14, 2014 21:46
> Even more importantly: If two packages reference conflicting versions of a package, NuGet will silently take the latest version (read more). You have no control over this process.
Nov 14, 2014 21:46
yes I saw that
Nov 14, 2014 21:43
@JeroldHaas oh is it F# specific?
Nov 14, 2014 21:43
@JeroldHaas welcome to the software industry, enjoy your stay.
Nov 14, 2014 21:42
may very well give it a push though as others on my team have registered a modicum of displeasure with NuGet as well
Nov 14, 2014 21:42
@JeroldHaas I suspect so; unfortunately I do not get to decide the technologies I work with.
Nov 14, 2014 21:40
@JeroldHaas yes, I have heard of and seen some improvements over nuget out there, haven't looked super closely at any of them though. Will take a look at this one though, thanks! Unfortunately NuGet being a part of visual studio makes it the de facto standard to be accepted as better than all-comers just like C# is clearly better than F# in the eyes of my team and most others..
Nov 14, 2014 18:41
@BryanEdds ....the week does end in the next day....
Nov 14, 2014 17:42
I wonder if you could use a Type Provider to create value-constrained-types like phaux dependent typing... let findStr (s:String Lower Invariant) = [...] so compile time checking could say "pfft, you tried to "findStr" something that wasn't a Lower Invariant string" just like how you can constrain type parameters on generics, except type provider could give you the runtime-execution of user defined constraints like "Lower" and "Invariant" on String, or user defined range checks on numerics...
Nov 14, 2014 16:59
NuGet didn't come about until 2010... Haskell had Cabal, Ruby gems, Java had Maven and Gradle and others I believe, Node NPM, surely others had managers I'm not aware of heh
Nov 14, 2014 16:58
> CPAN was conceived in 1993
Nov 14, 2014 16:55
@JeroldHaas indeed. Though to be fair- it's initial release was 2010. MS was very late to the game on this, Java was on like it's 2nd or 3rd generation of this tooling, most all other development stacks had package management tooling for years already...
Nov 14, 2014 16:53
Still handy though. Be lying if I said I don't use and appreciate it.
Nov 14, 2014 16:53
@JeroldHaas yeah that's the thing of nuget, well implemented, but just not well thought out in many ways it seems
Nov 14, 2014 16:51
Visual studio should store and own nuget.exe, if you run nuget.exe update -self it will update itself, but it prefers to live in source control so it will never be updated - the contradiction in those design choices is just a big ?? to me. They should have stored it with visual studio so when visual studio tells you "Hey there's an update for me! Install SP1!" it could all say "Hey, update your nuget now!"
Nov 14, 2014 16:50
not libraries
Nov 14, 2014 16:50
@JeroldHaas no, nuget.exe
Nov 14, 2014 16:24
Just lots of little details they get inexplicably wrong..
Nov 14, 2014 16:24
another little detail that irritates me: It has a self update mechanism, but it prefers itself to live in a .nuget folder peering your solution where it goes into source control and will not as such be automatically updated. Why didn't they just tie it into visual studio (it already has a whole package manager console widget for it) such that it lived with your visual studio and notified of available updates frequently like visual studio does?
Nov 14, 2014 16:22
@JeroldHaas Yes. It's good tooling, it's those little details like that which they got just wrong enough to be frequently painful that ruins it for me
Nov 14, 2014 16:16
plus for the longest time common.logging had a dependency on Log4Net >= 1.1, but when Log4Net released a package of 1.2 that had a different interface, nuget would grab that with common logging and then common logging would blow up at runtime because the API changes
Nov 14, 2014 16:15
@JeroldHaas yeah, likely. All the same, it sucks when I'm done with one branch, have a colleague do a get of the branch for the first time and build and nuget pulls totally different versions of the dependencies for them than it did for me and now what they build and maybe deploy somewhere isn't quite the same as what I was working against...
Nov 14, 2014 15:49
...hate...nuget...much... it's defaulting to always grab the latest package has screwed my team over so much, and we shouldn't have to manually go edit our config files to set use specific version, not >= some version as the default is..
Nov 14, 2014 00:52
@Maslow true enough
Nov 13, 2014 23:29
super handy to know about if you're not familiar with it
Nov 13, 2014 23:29
> Alternatively, just set the Registry keys your self. (I just memorized them, as I set them all the time.) Set HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Fusion\ForceLog registry value to 1 and HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Fusion\LogPath registry value to C:\FusionLogs or some path that exists.
Nov 13, 2014 23:27
there's even some tools out there for turning on/off/viewing the fusion log
Nov 13, 2014 23:27
@Maslow fusion log is precisely this, logging all the resolution attempt events, you can turn it on in a few ways but easiest is reg key where you turn it on and specify where to write the file log
Nov 13, 2014 20:39
@pblasucci whether machine or applicationHost configs override a section is defined per-section, some sections the hierarchy of overrides flows one way, other sections otherwise...check your applicationHost and machine configs if fusion log doesn't give you a better idea
Nov 13, 2014 20:38
I'd take a look at the fusion log, anytime I have binding issues I've learned that's the best place to look
Nov 13, 2014 20:37
presumably it's not being overridden? config files have a hierarchy
Nov 13, 2014 20:37
oh runtime binding