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12:00 AM
@Machavity I don't think it will. 5 votes didn't get reversed for me.
 
Should the delete vote tally even be shown if an answer does not qualify for deletion?
 
@Ethan It's not 100% guaranteed. Hence why you should mod flag if they're close together.
In your case, you still have stuff pending behind the scenes. It's just awaiting a CM
 
12:21 AM
@Machavity I thought it was if x amount were cast in y amount of time. And maybe if the user had a past that many votes were reversed that would increase the likely hood of the action being triggered. But we don't know exactly what would trigger it.
 
12:59 AM
@dippas FYI we prefer to avoid oneboxes in this room - I edited your message to preserve the link without the onebox.
Also definitely red-flaggable (your choice of flag, really), that is just a rude rant.
 
Is my "tone" really so bad? stackoverflow.com/q/73029379/2943403
 
@mickmackusa In some cases, I would say maybe... but not here. I thought that was fairly polite. It's possible they don't understand the reasoning - i.e., the need to be able to copy-paste the sample data to make sure that the answer code produces the right result.
 
1:20 AM
@mickmackusa Nah. You were matter of fact and they just wanted the answer without having to do extra work.
 
@RyanM sorry I wasn't aware of that
 
No worries!
@mickmackusa The user who cast that delete vote has never been suspended.
 
1:35 AM
@RyanM hmm... odd then.
@RyanM Should the delete vote persist on my upvoted answer? I guess so. Otherwise, someone could engage socks or voting ring to upvote a post as a way to neutralize del votes.
 
The answer is up-voted in the aggregate and cannot be deleted now, and if that changes in the future (due to sock-puppets or whatever), it's just one answer, and so shouldn't be a big issue, no?
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels these are my babies! :)
 
IMHO that's more of a system-level question and not one I'm well-equipped to answer for PHP. Though I tend to think delete votes in general are overused by some people (e.g., on potentially salvageable questions that will Roomba anyway, on answers that are merely suboptimal but not completely worthless) - but there's very little we can do about that, since the lack of tooling makes it hard to establish a pattern.
Knowing the sort of answers you tend to write, I'd be surprised if the answer were bad enough to warrant deletion. Though in this case, as Hovercraft notes, the upvotes protect it anyway, which is a good design.
 
2:28 AM
Spam? User has posted multiple times linking to a "base" question with that same external link.
 
I think you've found the wrong room. I think I saw the word "user" there. =P
 
7 answers of the same form in a short amount of time seems suspicious for sure.
 
@IanCampbell Already mentioned in CHQ, but folks are asleep, over there. :)
... well, they were.
... and Natty found at least 3 of them, so we have 3 rooms in which to debate the issue. :)
 
 
1 hour later…
3:56 AM
^ also a duplicate, see comments under question
 
4:07 AM
Anyone around with a Node.js or sass hammer? There are reports of massive duplication of answers (22, at the last count) in SOBotics. Closing the parent Qs as dupes seems appropriate, IMHO, in most of those cases.
 
4:22 AM
@AdrianMole It looks like there's only 1 sass hammer so that one's unlikely. There's about half as many answers as node.js hammers so I think you're a bit out of luck with those tags (without a diamond, of course)
 
@HenryEcker I left a comment on the last of those answers - maybe the poster will do something about them? Otherwise, I guess the mods will get around to handling the flag(s) on the answers in their own, good time.
 
5:20 AM
@HenryEcker Heh - I got a response to my comment on the last of those duplicate answers. Anyone that calls me (still) "Young man" has issues, for sure. :)
 
5:34 AM
IIRC, there is a limit to how many of one's own answers one can delete in a single day. Does my memory serve me correctly?
 
5:46 AM
@snakecharmerb job offers are considered spam on Stack Overflow IIRC
 
6:18 AM
Anyone know what a "frozen" post is?
@AdrianMole "Will fix" - 42 minutes ago (no changes to any of the 20 posts)
 
@Adriaan You recall correctly at least wrt. the canonical on meta (cc @snakecharmerb)
@JeanneDark Thanks for finding that for me =)
Hmmm... If frozen === 'historical lock' then isn't the wording on "Cannot add comments to this post; it may be locked, deleted, or frozen" redundant?
 
I think they like that term because SO staff are a chilled-out bunch of folks.
 
6:44 AM
@Adriaan Thanks for the reminder, I'll try to remember in future.
 
6:56 AM
Is this on-topic? It contains pseudo code and asks what the big-O time of that algorithm is
 
@AdrianMole I think it's five per day
 
 
1 hour later…
8:03 AM
@Adriaan ...someone custom flagged that as "Stupid beyond words..."
The flag was not marked helpful.
 
@RyanM ;D
@RyanM only asking questions about programming and being forced to ask in English? This is more difficult than I thought... End of the free world!
 
@Adriaan Or end of the free Wi-Fi, at least...
 
@Adriaan *raises gun with an eagle passing by*
 
8:19 AM
@Adriaan and hey, "What think apps for hack wifi password" is almost asking in English...
 
8:36 AM
^ Has a phone number, why didn't any of the bots pick that up?
 
an excellent question, especially given that it hit several SD rules.
 
Was it just slow to respond? I.e. should I blame caching?
 
@Adriaan It's possible, though Smokey's usually faster than that.
 
8:55 AM
Has anyone noticed that recently there seems to be an effort to pimp the open-gauss database? The question patterns of questions tagged with open-gauss just strike me as odd...
 
@RobbyCornelissen ughhhhhhh. Yeah, that's not organic in the slightest.
 
@RyanM the nerve! People reposting their NAA ("Me too") after you've deleted the original. And that ad verbatim
 
@Adriaan Oh, did someone do that and I deleted it again? I didn't even notice.
I see me too, I click delete.
 
@RyanM I wouldn't know how to even begin to moderate that though...
 
@Adriaan That entire tag is off topic
 
@Braiam very, indeed ... but why do 332 people watch the tag?
 
@RobbyCornelissen I nuked everything I could quickly prove. Needs more investigation though because there's a lot more that looks suspicious to me.
 
@Adriaan Mergers and acquisitions
Also, some people follow a tag just to make sure it doesn't exist
> The following tags will be remapped to career-development: career, career-advice, employment and job-hunting
 
[career-development] deleted:all is:q: 2,659 results
 
9:18 AM
Well then, sounds like a gold mine for Stack Overflow if they launch a career/hiring website!
 
lol...
 
Adriann... too soon!
 
Ryan M. why you closed that question for need details or clarity I think it should be closed for not suitable for site.
Which Adriaan has shared above
 
@SunderamDubey Non-English Qs are - by convention - closed as "Needs details or clarity."
 
The french one?
 
9:27 AM
D'accord.
 
@SunderamDubey anything non-English is by definition lacking clarity, since it's not understandable.
 
While I can understand more or less what's asking, I expect most people to being unable to do so, due being in another language. So, it fits the definition of "unclear".
Unclear what you are asking due being in a language I can't understand and it's unexpected.
 
Also closing as "Not suitable for this site" results in a message that says "Not about programming", which is ...less than helpful.
It would be nice if we had a dedicated "in the wrong language" flag/close reason. Also for answers.
 
Meh, those cases are so rare that it would be a waste.
 
it would be the easiest flags to blow through as a mod, too. "is it English? Nope? click"
 
9:31 AM
Close reasons should apply to 99.999% of the questions.
 
I do get to use my canned comment roughly 10 times a day though, telling people to post in English.
Interestingly enough most often for either Spanish or Russian, where a dedicated SO exists...
 
@Braiam stackoverflow.com/tools/question-close-stats ctrl+F "english" - 10 results (14 close votes), just for today.
and that's just people who opted for custom reasons
 
I guess they are so quickly handled that most people don't notice them
 
@Adriaan 5 today
 
Why doesn't a dedicated French-SO exist? There's a couple hundred million speakers for that, and it pops up on SO almost as much as Spanish or Portuguese and definitely more than Japan
 
9:33 AM
@RyanM Considering that we get 9k questions day (it's still 9k?), that's a drop in the bucket
 
@Braiam and it's not even lunchtime around here
 
@Adriaan Sorry, I meant last 24 hours
 
@Braiam 9 such comments by Adriaan in the past 24h, including deleted posts.
 
@RyanM How many closed questions last 24 hours?
 
@RyanM Qs and As? That's a pretty accurate guess by me
 
9:35 AM
@Adriaan yeah, I just looked at all comments you posted containing "have to be in English"
 
Reminds me of the user telling me they had never seen a non-English answer and they must be extremely rare. Been here for 10 years and not even raised 300 helpful flags on SO.
 
Ummm, wait, /tools/question-close-stats says today, I don't know if it's a UTC day
@JeanneDark Hey, I don't follow what kids consider popular these days.
 
@Braiam I don't think I can search that. But part of the issue is that we don't have very good numbers on non-English content, so it's hard to go to staff and say "hey you should do something about this."
...err, wait, yes I can. Questions Closed: 1386
 
@RyanM The /tools/question-close-stats route should include that
Seems that you found it :)
Yeah, less than 1%, doesn't scream to me "we need a standardized message"
 
@RyanM 1386 non-English questions closed in the last 24 hours?
 
jps
9:40 AM
@Adriaan and often these users are already members of the spanish/portuguese/russian SO and never posted there.
 
@RyanM catches from Dharman's bot seem to be pretty accurate
 
Well, it's somewhere between 1% and 21.38% of closures, given that the canonical advice is to use "Needs details or clarity"
 
@RyanM I'd presume on the low end of that scale though
 
Yeah, even that guy that haven't seen a non-english post would have noticed 20%
 
It is, at least, overwhelmingly the most common custom close reason.
Yes, it's definitely not anywhere near 20%
 
9:42 AM
In SO custom close reasons aren't used very often I see
 
If anybody is up for a challenge, this answer to Sieve of Atkin - Explanation and Java example (score 133) is in desperate need of edits to properly format math formulas. I've gave it an attempt but it was too much for me.
 
Or they are two disparaged describing the same issue
 
However, it is notably higher than "About professional server- or networking-related infrastructure administration" which does have a dedicated reason.
Admittedly, we're trying to kill that off.
 
Isn't it a simple two moderators process to create and enable a new close reason?
 
(it's gotten 0.67% of closures in the past month)
@Braiam yes, but we want to edit the existing one to be more general and stop recommending Super User, which requires a CM.
 
9:44 AM
You know you can simply create a new one, disable the other and enable the new one?
You don't need to edit previous one, just create.
 
It may at least make sense to change the "Needs details or clarity" explanation in What does it mean if a question is "closed"? to include non-English content.
 
Yes, we're aware, but then it won't change the existing uses...and Super User is bad advice for many of them. It also makes the data cleaner for analyzing it. It's also very simple when the CM you were workshopping it with isn't out of the office.
...personally, I think two moderators should be able to just edit them. But I remain not in charge of SO product for some reason.
 
The more time you spend on your thumbs, the more questions gets closed by a bad advice, just saying.
Do it now, and limit the number of questions.
The edits to the other reason can be done at a later date at anyone leisure
 
10:13 AM
 
10:46 AM
 
> i am illetrate please help me
 
@JeanneDark that would explain their issues with finding the "Ask Question" button instead of the "Post Your Answer" button...
...also, sympathetic though I am to illiterate people, I do wonder exactly how they were planning to get help on a website that only permits text communication...
 
11:03 AM
@RyanM speech-to-text
 
When is it appropriate to mod-flag in a question defacement roll-back war?
 
A roll-back war should raise an automatic mod flag
 
@Adriaan I would not rely on that one, though...it's failed to raise in a number of situations where it should have. It did work here, though.
@HovercraftFullOfEels for defacement edits, even one rollback would be worth a flag, I'd think. That more than qualifies for sure.
 
@RyanM I had assumed that several roll-backs (3?) would automatically trigger a flag, but I am now not fully sure.
But thanks for looking into it.
 
Frankly, I don't understand the rules, as I've triggered it myself multiple times.
And by "triggered it myself" I mean entirely myself. No other users were involved in the "war."
 
11:55 AM
^ They are serving great spam
 
12:15 PM
@RyanM Yeah, the rollback war autoflag is sometimes too sensitive. If you edit, rollback and then revert, it sometimes will trigger, which isn't useful (especially if you're the OP)
 
@Machavity I've also seen it go the other way and not trigger on legit rollback wars.
 
12:49 PM
For above cv-pls request, can someone please add two duplicate targets? Links are in comments; one from me and one from other user.
 
@AmitJoshi they already voted for the other one, looks like
 
@RyanM: I voted for one and other user voted for other target. Their target is also look helpful because it suggests a trick to handle compression but the technology does not match. That is why I decided to find the question that matches the technology.
What will happen if someone vote to close for any one target? Will that automatically add two links in banner? Or will it only add the link with two votes?
 
That's a good question. I want to say both would be listed, but I'm not sure
 
1:11 PM
@AmitJoshi All duplicate targets voted for by at least one close-voter are included if the question is closed as a duplicate (with the caveat that I'm not certain if there's a moderator exception to that, but I don't think there is).
 
@RyanM May also be a gold-hammer exception. Not 100% sure, but I think I've hammered a Q with a different target than suggested by another close-voter, and only my target was shown. I'll keep a weather eye for any future cases.
 
@AdrianMole those weather eyes of yours covered by sunglasses these days?
 
Nah. I tried them, years ago, but kept bumping into things when I walked into bars.
 
@AdrianMole you ... know ... you can take those things off?
 
1:22 PM
OK - I found one to try an experiment on ... I'll be editing the list afterwards, just in case anyone wonders what I'm up to.
... result of the experiment: both targets are shown (With my hammer taking the top spot!)
But I really do dislike the term, "double pointer" for things like int** p;. What would x be called in double** x;? A double double pointer? Or a double pointer pointer?
 
@AdrianMole double pointer to a double
 
what about int**** then
 
@blackgreen Now you've become a four star programmer
4
 
1:40 PM
@blackgreen That's called, "You're fired!"
 
Great, now we've invented C**
 
would you close this question and if yes for what reason? It literally just ask a question with lack of details and clarity and already starts to self-answer the question in the question itself.
 
Wow, somebody actually made this edit (see Rev 2)...
 
IMHO also opinion-based along missing details and clarity
 
@GeneralGrievance At least it was not a suggested and approved edit...
 
1:48 PM
True.
 
@tacoshy You can downvote and close vote as you see fit. You also allowed to post a cv-pls request in here, if you think it deserves quick closure.
@GeneralGrievance Should've been, "Tanks, Deer!"
 
I know adrian just not sure it actually not sure what I should close it for and if I should close it at all
IMHO SO is not a blog to write your own tutorials
cI could be wrong though
 
You could be wrong. If so, folks will likely reply to a close request, saying why they think you are.
... but you can also ask a question, as you did already. No problem, either way, as far as I can see.
... and my answer would be (quoting a moderator), "It's unclear what you're asking."
 
@tacoshy are you sure \s
 
Self-answered questions are fine and highly encouraged by the system. However, the questions still need to meet SO's standards.
 
1:54 PM
not entirely thats why I asked. However I believe they should follow a purpose and value to the community and need to be correctly formatted
 
@gnat what is even going on there
 
And I believe that thsi "tutorial" is purely opinon-based
 
@blackgreen Bah! Not much we can do about moderating Collectives, as mere mortals. But ... I just noticed that a down-vote on an article automagically gives a pop-up asking for feedback (which is kinda, sorta, completely contrary to what mods and staff say about downvotes). An upvote doesn't ask for feedback, though.
 
@tacoshy I would close it as Needs Focus or Needs Details
 
@AdrianMole For low-rep users, it's the same on SO and MSO (which has the advantage that I then know that my vote was registered)
 
1:59 PM
@AdrianMole Nice overkill, but ok.
 
> stack is now overflow with indusians pseudo developer or sismilar
 
???
 
what
 
Ninja'd by the MQ.
 
where is that from
I need to delete it
 
2:12 PM
@Dharman See this answer
 
@Dharman You'll sleep well, now!
 
"I vote for this post, cuz I made that question because i was getting that error." Well, that's certainly a statement
 
So, for a question like, "What's wrong with my code?" is an answer like, "It doesn't work!" acceptable?
 
Well, it's arguably a valid answer but don't expect it to avoid downvotes :-)
 
... maybe I'll try, just to see if Jeanne upvotes it.
 
2:27 PM
@AdrianMole I didn't say I would upvote it. The person who upvotes answers like "Please how can I solve this I need urgent assistance" maybe would.
 
Oooh - 6,666 posts edited. :)
 
2:43 PM
@AdrianMole I'm pretty sure you will get a few upvotes on an answer like that (I have seen similar), but if Natty catch it I will also please you with a nice NAA flag ;)
 
@AdrianMole nice
I thought I heard Diablo being resurrected somewhere in the distance
 
Diablo Immortal is setting record revenue, I think
 
Despite all the backslash about "microtransactions¨
 
Well, one must take care in how they frame it
the question should not be "are we still making money despite all the microtransaction press" but rather "are we making more money than we would have if we didn't have the microtransaction press"
 
2:52 PM
That would require a time machine.
 
though I have not been following Diablo Immortal really at all. That is the mobile game, right?
@Braiam Well, no, just forecasting
 
Also works on pc, but there were issues, I don't know if they are fixed.
 
@Braiam I've poked around it. The game is somewhat more difficult if you don't pay for the premiums
 
@TylerH That would work if your models are updated.
 
Blizzard has openly adopted the Epic games model. They even call their system "battle pass", which is the same
 
2:54 PM
People find "normal" pay to win models
 
The battle pass model also avoids the legal pitfalls of the old loot crate model, which some countries ban as gambling
Overwatch 2 will have a battle pass
 
3:24 PM
Yeah, I will continue buying on GOG and itch.io
 
i'm not a fan of destiny 2's model, but battlepass... i can deal with battlepass
 
4:07 PM
 
4:19 PM
Is it ok to ask for the room's opinion on an old question without asking for any action to be taken? It's an question. I'm not sure if I should just edit the tag out or CV, looking for a second opinion.
 
@miken32 Yes, just don't use the *-pls tagging on it and users should not consider it a request to act upon, but a request for opinions
(obvious caveat of "don't abuse this as a way to hint at *-pls action being taken without explicitly requesting it", bc that's against the rules, etc. etc.)
 
Ok I was thinking this was POB because OP doesn't specify exactly what notices they're looking to suppress. The intent is clear, but I'm not sure that "stop just the annoying notices and keep the others" is specific enough. stackoverflow.com/questions/12185971/…
The title differentiates between "warnings" and "errors" but the output of the program doesn't indicate that there's any such classification in the program itself.
 
4:51 PM
 
@miken32 Yeah, I would have voted to close that question as either needs details or POB... we don't currently (and probably never will) know what specific types of errors OP is interested in since they mix clear errors with stylistic errors in the list of things they don't want.
My recommendation back in 2012 would've been to use a proper IDE to debug the issue rather than an opinionated linter.
 
@TylerH sounds good to me, thanks for the confirmation
 
5:16 PM
@tacoshy Nah this is not a networking question, it's how to access an HTML file/page from a web browser which is within the scope of a programmer's daily tasks.
 
his question is how to show an Ip address instead of a path in the browser
 
@tacoshy yes, shown on a browser as an externally accessible URL, not a local filepath (e.g. C:\...)
 
and how would that not be about networkign or server hosting? An externally accessible IP instead of a local path is all about server setup and accessing the file through the server path instead of accessing it locally
 
@SotiriosDelimanolis OP is new to Java so this may actually be a lack of understanding rather than a typo (still think it is probably 'not likely to future readers' though)
@tacoshy accessing an HTML file from within a browser is such a small and frequent task for someone writing HTML, CSS, etc. that it is clearly w/in the scope of " problem that is unique to software development". It's certainly not at the scope (yet, could be if OP edits with more info, potentially) of "professional networking or server question".
 
@TylerH maybe. I've got dupes for that case, but harder to get those deleted (roomba more strict)
 
5:24 PM
to be clear, I think the question needs more details to be answerable (and I don't begrudge anyone who downvoted the question for lacking effort/research) cc@tacoshy
@SotiriosDelimanolis Yeah. I think closure was the right call, just felt it was worth remarking since OP mentioned they were a beginner in Java in the question
 
🚽
 
@tacoshy This doesn't seem clear to me at the moment. OP asks for a blue background and their question and code shows a blue background.
 
he askes for the button
 
yeah that seems... mostly clear to me
i can understand the confusion
 
The issue soley comes down by including the button and applying the stilyes only to the container without reseteing the default button styles
 
5:26 PM
but i picked up on what they wanted within a few seconds
should probably just be closed as a duplicate of how do i style html buttons
they're currently styling the button's container, not the button itself.
 
They just say background-color; they don't mention anywhere that they want the button itself to change colors. That's certainly a possible assumption... I'm not in a hurry to make that assumption, especially given I'll just re-close it as a duplicate (as Kevin mentions it's an nth dupe)
Maybe if the title were clear at all, I'd feel more confident in that assumption
 
"But in this button is a white box with text, how can I make this blue too?" this IMHO clearly says that his issue is, that the blue background does not apply to the button
 
@tacoshy You realize you are quoting information that was added after everything I said above? :-)
 
it's such a silly question
like
 
oh true wasnt aware of that
 
5:32 PM
i styled my div to be blue, why is the button not blue
because... you didn't style the button to be blue.
 
properly. Is there a good dupe for default button styles?
 
not that i can see
but so is full of bad titles so maybe i just don't see it
 
Yes, one sec
 
For beginenrs it properly is not intuitve that buttons have a default styling among other inline elements
 
Surely there's a how do i style buttons question somewhere
 
5:35 PM
@KevinB Back in our day we had to put it all in tables and color it separately. Uphill. Both ways. In the rain.
 
i'm currently working on revamping an app that's built with tables... in a way that doesn't look wildly different from what they have to avoid needing to train anyone... and I'm seriously considering just using a table and calling it a day
 
good lord there is no good canonical for how to change an element's background color
There is this for buttons but it's about resetting styles to default stackoverflow.com/questions/59378204/…
 
yup...
strange isnt it? I haven found a good dupe with the search so far for this "simple" case
 
well usually simple cases, especially in the past, were downvoted/discouraged
because only experts used SO
now that it's for everyone and all questions no matter how basic, it's different, but you're still gonna get a million people downvoting such basic questions
this one is close but specifies divs: stackoverflow.com/questions/64051702/… I can probably change it to be generic without invalidating the answers but some users might grumble
I'll probably do that
since the answer is the same regardless of element
This is the kind of scenario that SO Docs would've been great for closing against
 
 
1 hour later…
6:52 PM
 
8:32 PM
 
8:57 PM
@KevinB There's nothing wrong with using a <table> for, well, you know, a table. While <table> elements have definitely been over-used in a lot of sites over time, it's not something which needs to be completely avoided all the time. OTOH, it is something that's not that great of an idea for things other than tables. It's just one more tool that should be used appropriately.
 
yea, this is a form, it's being used for layout
i very well could get the same design without tables, but, if i'm just gonna make a design that looks like tables....
i mightaswell just make it a table
it sort-of mimics a spreadsheet, since that's what this was based on replacing a decade ago
i might just say screw it and use a more modern design
only ~ 30 people use the form, and the majority will be able to adapt
 
9:44 PM
@KevinB You underestimate the "workflow change aversion"
 
it's a really complicated process too, with consequences if you mess it up. so... change aversion could be a problem
but it has a review step that should avoid any such problems
 
And who review the reviewed step!?
 
the managers
 
Just use divs so it's visually the same yet behind the scenes it's totally not the same thing.
 
it has to be approved twice after that step before anything happens
 
9:48 PM
Then go "hey, we need to move this so it works better"
That is assuming that you gave yourself that leeway in your rewrite
 

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