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12:03 AM
@Dharman the Q was edited by OP into English, do you think it qualifies to reopen?
 
12:42 AM
@Vickel No, but I took my downvote away at least
 
^ I'm no SME, but Q looks quite OK, compared to many others :)
 
It has no title and contains a lot of code
 
 
1 hour later…
2:16 AM
stackoverflow.com/questions/70553165/scope-of-a-list-in-python What's the canonical duplicate for this? Please tell me there's a canonical duplicate for this.
Thanks @khelwood.
 
 
2 hours later…
3:58 AM
Is this suitable as a "known good" audit?
 
I'd say no
 
Meh. I passed the test but it looks a bit 'thin', IMHO.
 
I'd give that a narrow "yes" on it being an acceptable question, but it's a close call as to it being a good audit.
 
@HenryEcker {Sorry - read your response as "I'd say so"}
 
Ah. Yeah that's different. :p
I definitely meant that while the question is probably fine, but I don't think that's a good audit.
I'm surprised that wasn't caught.
 
4:09 AM
I think the main issue is that there's very little understandable content to be matched by the regexes, and it's a novel enough form of gibberish that there haven't been rules developed to catch that sort of thing.
 
Looks like probably Hindi characters mis-represented?
 
But doesn't Smokey have a phase which evaluates against the standard frequency of English characters?
I feel I saw that somewhere in the source. Or is that just a vandalism screen on edits?
 
I think you're right. But the rules may have been inadvertently breached by the formatting.
 
If I recall correctly, it's probably not looking at the accented characters that are used widely there.
There are enough repeated characters that it seems like pretty serious data corruption if it was originally understandable text.
@RyanM Yeah, only unaccented English letters are checked: github.com/Charcoal-SE/SmokeDetector/blob/master/…
 
4:15 AM
It doesn't even get there.
The search before will return False if there isn't a contiguous non space block of at least 8 characters
 
Ah, yeah, you're right. It's really designed for contiguous strings of gibberish as a particular troll used to do. Though it's proved pretty good at finding other gibberish more generally.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:21 AM
So, we're asked not to translate non-English posts on behalf of the poster. However, is converting images of code/text to (proper) text OK? As in this edit by a relatively high-rep user, using Google Lens.
 
I fix images by converting to code when I feel like it.
So far nobody has told me to not do it.
 
The problems, as I understand, are two-fold: (1) The possibility of making minor (but significant) transcription errors; (2) Gets the OP into bad habits.
 
@AdrianMole My understanding is the reason that we do not translate non-English posts for other users is because they must demonstrate the ability to communicate in English themselves. If they cannot communicate in English they may be unable to choose an answer or respond to comments.
I don't know that that applies with images. I don't think that the risk of a transcription error has any higher or more likelihood than a normal copy paste/or edit that is made. It also provides a base template for OP to correct such mistakes.
 
I think it's fine. Mistakes are a risk with any edits, and we expect editors not to mess it up too much. I wouldn't transcribe an image myself, but I also wouldn't rollback an edit that does so, unlike a natural language translation.
 
I generally agree. But, with transcription, it is all-to-easy to 'automatically' correct very minor errors, like indentation faults (in Python) or - more rarely - converting weird, illegal characters (Greek question marks, anyone) into their legal equivalents.
For info, this is a Greek question mark: Íž Searching on SO gives some interesting stories.
 
5:34 AM
I agree that a destructive edit would be an issue. And there are certainly issues that can arise in transcribing an image. I wouldn't go around and create a bot to just run through and auto replace all images of code with text.
 
I don't think VonC is a bot. ;-)
 
Having said that. In this case, I don't think that there are additional concerns with this image transcription as it is a how-to question, not a debugging question and go is not a space-delimited language.
 
In the particular case, I have no issue, as it was a good edit in other ways, too. My concern was more general, and that one came up in review, so I used it as an example.
 
I think case-by-case basis evaluation would be the best approach. I wouldn't make a general habit of it, and I think it'd be best to have a meta consensus to reject a suggested edit on that basis alone.
 
So it turns out it's already the consensus to not transcribe code from an image into text meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/260245 (see bullet 5 in the don't list).
 
5:51 AM
@cigien: What you have here is one line in an otherwise very good conglomerate answer. I'm not willing to say that is consensus on that issue. The voting is for the aggregate not each individual rule.
 
Fair enough. That makes sense and is in-line with the other edit guidelines.
 
Actually, editing OP's code in a question - even when presented as text, can often be seen as 'dodgy'. I very occasionally remove excessive blank lines/whitespace (OK in C/C++), just to make the post more readable, but anything other than that risks changing the code sufficiently to break the question.
 
The reality is however unless the original question image happens to have the rather obscure text rendering I require I'll just blow past it unread.
 
... I've also rejected numerous edits that change one type of spacing to another (like Allman -> K&R). There was a user doing it a lot, a while back; I haven't seen any recently, so they either got 2000 rep or were edit-banned.
 
I've done that when the original code had no consistent format. But I'd rather just comment and downvote.
 
5:58 AM
I downvoted because you use K&R formatting but I prefer Allman! xD
 
@Joshua I'm afraid that's just how consensus on Meta works, for better or worse. If you want to carve out on exception for this case, then a new meta post would have to be made and voted on. Currently, this is the closest question I could find, and it's closed as a dupe of the FAQ.
 
"Thanks for putting in the effort to transcribe that image into text which can be copied elsewhere. That was pretty cool of you to do."
 
I feel like there was just a meta post (last couple of days) about images of code. I can't seem to find it now though.
 
Hi there. I confirm, I am not a bot :)
4
 
But you would say that, of course. :)
 
6:04 AM
That being said, I was incredibly disappointed by the moderation choices promoted in this case.
 
Not sure what you mean. Disappointed by the discussion in here?
 
The OP said they have found a solution (but cannot post it since the question was closed). I edited it in order to allow reopen votes. Any chance you could reopen it, in order for the OP to help others?
 
The consensus here was the edit was fine (though perhaps not to be deployed on a wide scale). What choices are at issue?
 
OK. I saw it in the Reopen review queue but skipped ... not really my domain.
 
I rolled back the edit (presumably that's what VonC is referring to).
 
Ah. I didn't see that.
 
@VonC You can post a reopen-pls in here if you want.
 
@cigien Cool! (I am not familiar with the practices here)
 
The FAQ is a bit long, but it covers most issues pretty well.
 
First Millionaire to visit SOCVR? I'm going for a 🍺 to mark the occasion.
 
6:09 AM
@VonC May I ask, do you think the rule against transcribing images of code into text is a problem, or do you just feel that the edit you made to this particular question is ok?
 
"do you think the rule against transcribing images of code into text is a problem": I most certainly do, when the image is not huge, and clearly the main root cause for the close votes and downvotes, which is always disappointed to see on posts done by new users: their first experience is "downvoted/closed/have a nice day"
That is why Google Lens exists: phone, transcribe text, send it directly to the clipboard of your computer through your Google session there, CTRL+V, done.
It takes a few minutes/edits to make the OP's day, or, you know, two clicks to downvote/close.
 
Given the state of the post when it was closed, do you feel that the closure or the downvotes were inappropriate? Those are the actions I would have taken myself.
 
I am a proponent of the former, but I do not deny the usefulness of the latter.
"Given the state of the post when it was closed": I am usually to edit/improve first. Then if the post is still closed, then the moderation community has made their decision.

But in this case, the OP commented they have found a solution. I find it sad to not give them the opportunity to contribute and help others.
 
6:45 AM
@VonC Would you be interested in making a meta post about this? AFAICT, the current consensus on meta is that such edits are not appropriate, but there are several users who think it's fine (myself included, if you just scroll up a bit in the transcript), so maybe it's worth starting a discussion about it. You seem to feel strongly about the edit you made, so you could try and make the argument on meta that it should be allowed.
 
@VonC I think closure was appropriate, and I'm in the camp of those who reject edits that simply inline images, or worse, edit the code in
that's the OP's responsibility
I'll leave your last edit in place, since it wouldn't change the fundamental clarity of the post, however I'm not sure it warrants a reopen vote
And it's probably a duplicate of this
(BTW, it's nice to see you in here)
 
7:12 AM
and just to be clear, the OP is not "new". They have been member for five years, and that wasn't their first question. Maybe take that into account if you go ahead and make a post on Meta about this
 
 
1 hour later…
8:15 AM
Could this one stackoverflow.com/questions/66510697/… considered as a request for external resources? The answers are just links to an external tool so I would close the question
 
@blackgreen Thank you for you feedback.
@cigien I have posted a meta discussion about this: https://meta.stackoverflow.com/q/415040/6309
 
8:49 AM
Any gurus who want to put the case for/againt this and this being duplicates?
... sorry if I bent (broke) room rules ... I didn't put any formal requests as I'm kind of involved, already (hammered it as a dupe, but now hammered open by OP).
 
9:47 AM
@Turing85 OP clarified, but now the question is a math-question, not a programming question.
 
10:28 AM
{ Happy New Year all 🎈 }
 
10:41 AM
 
11:31 AM
Can someone with 10k rep check if this question and the deleted question I linked in the comments are the same? As I remember, the only difference was measuring up to 3m not 2m.
 
it seems substantially the same
 
11:59 AM
@gre_gor I was expecting to see an undel-pls but I realized you can't access the post. To me it seems reasonable course of action. The two questions are in essence the same. I'll wait for others to chime in before posting an undel-pls
 
12:31 PM
@blackgreen I mod flagged it for potential attempt at downvote removal. And OP is complaining about bullying, so that might be the case.
 
^ it seems it has been handled
 
Great and also thanks for your help.
 
 
1 hour later…
1:51 PM
@AdrianMole I always wondered if an OP with a hammer would be able to use it on their own question. Now I know.
 
Should I flag a question that was undeleted after a few months and completely changed into a whole new question? It doesn't have any answers or comments from before the change.
 
@VLAZ I would probably flag it, but don't trust me on this, since I've been dinged for inappropriate flags.
 
@VLAZ Yeah, that sounds like a typical ban evasion tactic. Please mod flag when they change the whole question to something else.
 
My personal opinion is that if there are no comments or answers, then it's not really hurting anything to replace the question with a different one. But that's not the official answer.
 
2:09 PM
@VLAZ: actually, @RyanM's comment makes quite a bit of sense
 
@VLAZ Why should you care?
 
@Braiam: why should any of us be motivated to curate the site?
 
How someone editing their question impede site curation?
 
2:28 PM
This answer doesn't add anything to the answer I linked in the comment, does it?
 
2:42 PM
@RyanM But, personally, I would never do that. Well, maybe not never, but only in very special circumstances. Hence my comment on the linked post. (There's something kinda 'dodgy' about hammering one's own Q, IMHO.)
 
3:11 PM
is cv-pls for a question popping up in sobotics (over comments) valid if it has no new answers?
 
hmmm
 
I guess the question comes down to is "are comments considered new activity"
 
@SurajRao no, comments by itself are not activity in how we interpret that in SOCVR
 
@SurajRao: no need for a cv-pls on that one, ;)
... and I know, I should not have engaged
 
Does a user get notified if someone invites them to a chat room?
or do I need to @ them explicitly somewhere
 
3:29 PM
this question is off-topic right? I mean it's basically a "bug report" to Wikipedia... Wasn't sure what reason to use...
 
@Braiam That was my question - should I care about this or should I let it slide.
 
@Tomerikoo My vote is that it looks off-topic, perhaps a general computing type issue.
 
@Tomerikoo It's not a "bug report", though. It's verifying whether certain information is correct. If the mention of Wikipedia is removed and the quote retained, then it's going to still be the same question. We have a lot of similar questions - some want to verify information from books, or other sources.
"I found something that says X, is it correct" is a pretty standard question.
Now, whether questions about ZIP are on-topic on SO or not is another matter.
 
@VLAZ There's nothing wrong. Just evaluate the question as if the previous version didn't exist.
 
3:46 PM
@Braiam This is the problem I was facing - The guidance for questions with answers is to not invalidate them. However, for questions without answers I've seen conflicting guidance. I am not aware of a consensus on the matter - I've seen different people say either case is acceptable. Others that either is not.
 
4:00 PM
@VLAZ Nah, there's nothing of conflict. As long as the question is improved, everything is fine.
@VLAZ if you wanted a more pointed opinion, here is one meta.stackoverflow.com/a/338240/792066
 
4:29 PM
I'm wondering if this question should be closed as a typo or should I convert my comment to an answer? Or should I ask this in the Python room?
 
4:42 PM
@Tomerikoo Maybe you could edit the question to be easier for others to find? Or close it as a duplicate?
 
@IanCampbell A duplicate will be best in my opinion... Do you have a target?
 
@Tomerikoo I figured this would be more common, but I can't seem to find anything.
 
@Tomerikoo Kind of a stretch, but it's really this?
Meh, I'm not sure it's a great fit. I could go either way between a typo and an edit and answer.
 
@IanCampbell haha I'm confused as well... I guess the whole problem will be avoided if the OP wouldn't use subprocess to run other Python files but of course that's valid. I guess...
@IanCampbell thanks for the input. I went with a slight edit and an answer...
 
5:19 PM
@blackgreen If you use the "invite this user..." chat action, then, yes, there is a notification. You also @ pinging them in some room is redundant and be perceived as being a bit pushy.
OTOH, when opening a private chat, moderators may SuperPing™ the user from the new private room, as the sequence of events might result in the user being notified of the invitation while they can't actually access the room and/or have the notification not sent due to the room being private and the user not, yet, having access.
 
thank you @Makyen
 
np
 
 
1 hour later…
6:32 PM
 
6:59 PM
@Turing85: I may have found a better dupe. What do you think?
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels your is definitely a closer dupe
 
@Turing85: I have hammered it with both Q&A's. There are undoubtedly more similar ones out there.
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels OP confirmed that those are dupes... so everything should be fine
 
 
1 hour later…
 
1 hour later…
9:22 PM
@HovercraftFullOfEels the lion, the witch and ...
 
@Turing85: ... and the irrevocably wrong answer(?)
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels ... of course.
 
I'm missing some reference, I think. Wardrobe doesn't quite fit
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels look it up on knowyourmeme
@richardec why the hurry? Shouldn't this question get roomba'd anyway?
 
user17242583
Actually yeah @Turing85, didn't think about that.
 
9:49 PM
I have finally managed to scrape all flaggers data. I published it on my website flaggers.dharman.net
7
Can someone let me know if it is readable/accurate?
 
user17242583
I find the rows a little spaced out, but other than that it looks pretty cool to me @Dharman!
 
user17242583
Wow, it's so nice to look at.
 
user17242583
264k helpful flags!!
 
@Dharman How frequent is the updating? It's fairly close to accurate for me
 
user17242583
I never seen Floern send messages in here, but they must lurk in SOBotics, because GenericBot always pings them...
 
9:51 PM
Ah nevermind there's a date at the top ignore me.
 
@HenryEcker The thing is that scraping that much data is very time consuming
 
@richardec If by "lurk in SOBotics" you mean is a Room Owner then yes.
 
I might update the top 100 from time to time, but not all of it
 
How did you end up getting the data?
 
9:56 PM
Ah full html page scraping of the entire user base
I see why that would be expensive
 
@Dharman that's an all-time ranking, right? or yearly?
 
user17242583
It's all-time @blackgreen. Otherwise, so Dharman flagged 100k times in less that two days? :P
 
all-time
 
user17242583
@Dharman are most of your flags automated or manual?
 
automated
 
10:02 PM
the site could just use a search box
 
user17242583
@Dharman The metasmoke autoflagging?
 
user17242583
I wasn't sure if I wanted to do the work to set it up (if I even could) because I didn't think it would do much, but if it's that prolific, maybe it'd be of use...
 
No, I have build my own bot
 
user17242583
Ah, okay.
 
user17242583
Oh yeah, DharmanBot, right? :)
 
10:31 PM
@blackgreen Done
 
fast
much better now
 
user17242583
Sweet @Dharman! and that was a speedy fix. ;)
 
@Dharman For me, it's off by one (which most probably is in the margin of error). Do you have a cron-jobs for updating?
 
@Turing85 The rank or the flag count?
 
@Dharman the flag count
 
10:37 PM
the flag count is definitely going to be off by a little as it's not real time
 
it's pretty accurate though. for me it's off by 8
 
It took me 24h to scrape it all, so some of it is already outdated
 
the time delay likely won't change the ranking significantly
 
Do you have a statistic of how many 502s you encountered?
Or 429?
 
less than 10 I think, but still pretty annoying
 
11:15 PM
 

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