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12:11 AM
Is this an answer? Stack-Overflow-as-a-helpdesk seems to be striking again.
 
@RyanM seems like a comment to me
 
@RyanM totally strange answer.
 
@RyanM I think that could probably be edited into a valid answer.
 
@MarcoBonelli ciao ragazzi o/
@Turing85 OP edited post.
 
@bad_coder it's "ciao ragazzo" if you really want but that's not really something we say :P anyway ciao! to you too
 
12:17 AM
@MarcoBonelli ahh, typo. Last Sicilian told me it was alright. (I said it in the plural on purpose :P )
 
@bad_coder I don't think you'll hear an Italian tell you "ciao ragazzo" haha sounds pretty weird
 
@CodyGray - but how do they then choose the site in the first place? It's not like they tap random URLs in the browser ... :)
 
ok "ciao ragazzi"... maybe, yeah
ooookay... that's enough italian in this chatroom for today
 
Ciao
 
@Turing85 "start light" "ubuntu" Come on, Ubuntu requires hardware acceleration in the default configuration.
 
12:35 AM
@MarcoBonelli Ma che vuoi ๐ŸคŒ
@KevinB come here bambino, let me give you a helping hand ๐ŸคŒ ๐Ÿงป
 
Could you please just stop mocking / randomly speaking Italian to me? Thank you.
 
1:26 AM
@HovercraftFullOfEels That will roomba in 10 days. No reason to delete it immediately as far as I can see.
 
@Xnero please don't approve edits like this that add code formatting to random words that are not code.
(normally I flag these for moderator attention, but since I can just ping you, that seems like an easier way to convey the information to you)
 
2:54 AM
@CodyGray Oh, here's the feature-request I missed. I've flagged it for status-review.
 
3:37 AM
@Vega I don't think this question is necessarily POB. It seems that it's possible to give objective reasons why it's a useful thing to have.
 
I was waiting for that. I went thru the answers and it seems opiniated
How it could be answered if not by an opinion?
 
By showing a case where goto is clearly advantageous. Maybe a place where it solves a problem much more elegantly than other solutions.
 
I think this answer does so, by providing a couple examples of cases where it's clearly useful to have.
The top answer is a bit opinion-y, I'll admit, but I don't think they all are.
 
3:56 AM
@tink You know that lots of people are aware of "Stack Overflow" right? They could easily just go directly to it, or, perhaps, search for "stackoverflow", which isn't the same thing as searching for an actual answer to their question.
 
@CodyGray - hehe. Yeah, I do know that.
 
@sideshowbarker Seems no code was needed, as it was a configuration problem.
@RyanM Although the UI has, for unknown reasons, dropped it, the word primarily is very important. All good answers on SO (read: anything but a code-dump) involve some expression of opinions. The thing we are supposed to ascertain is whether the question is primarily seeking opinions, and thus cannot be answered in a way that is based on facts. That doesn't apply here; that question is not a problem. @Vega
 
5:02 AM
@CodyGray +1
 
5:39 AM
@AlonEitan did the edit fix the no mcve reason?
 
@SurajRao It sure did :)
#RO can you please delete this cv-pls?
 
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, by request
 
np
 
5:59 AM
@RyanM You and others have assumed a programming context which doesn't appear to exist in the original question. My evaluation of that question was that you could ask a question like that from a programming point of view, but that user was not asking it that way.
To me, based on the user's original question wording and other questions which the user has asked (none of which have anything to do with programming on Windows), they appear to be asking how do I make some random program that I've placed in the startup folder start on a 2nd desktop.
While an answer can be given from a generic Windows API POV, one of the things that's quite telling to me regarding the issue is that the user didn't specify a programming language. There are multiple things there that appear to point towards the user asking this from the POV of using Windows, rather than the POV of programming for Windows.
 
Why does the original intention of the asker matter? Why should we strain so hard to read their mind? If it is or can be made into a useful Windows API programming question, isn't it useful on that basis alone?
 
@CodyGray In general, the typical solution is that if the answer is really good, which it doesn't look like it to me as it just lists the APIs to use, not shows how to use them, then put it either A) on one of the duplicates, or B) create a question that actually asks the question from a programming point of view, rather than shoehorn it into a question which isn't that.
 
Wow, that's nice; you found two duplicate answers that should have been removed. :-\
Anyway... clearly the asker of this other question wasn't able to find those, presumably because they didn't know the keywords, so that still seems to argue for leaving that question as a pointer to the duplicate (which I didn't find, either...).
 
Why did you merge the older, higher scored question into the newer, lower scored, lower views question? While I'm not thrilled with the quality of either question, I would have expected the merge to be the other way around.
 
6:22 AM
I kept the question with the best answers as the "main" question.
I don't really see the difference in time as relevant. The gap is a single month.
 
@Makyen My interpretation was that "my program boots on the 2nd desktop" suggested that it was a program that they were the maintainer of.
The duplicates do seem valid, but that would argue in favor of having it duped to those and left as a signpost
Which is admittedly a nontrivial operation from this point for a non-moderator.
 
@RyanM That could be the case, but the overall impression I get from the question and user is that they are looking for a solution for how to use Windows, not how to program in Windows.
 
The point about a lack of a programming language is a good point.
 
Meh. As someone who deals with a lot of Win API stuff, it is not unusual to omit mention of a programming language. The specific language doesn't much matter.
 
Also a fair point... API for Windows 10 virtual desktops also didn't mention a programming language.
And well..."using powershell start a process and move any windows created by that process to a particular virtual desktop" could well be from an end-user perspective, too.
 
6:43 AM
@RyanM Yes, but it also made it clear that it was looking for an API, rather than some way to make a program placed in the start folder run on a 2nd screen.
 
7:39 AM
Very old question with new link-only answer made me aware of two other, old answers: Is this link-only or answers the "Is it possible...?" part of the question? While this is just NAA, isn't it?
 
^^^ The link in the first link-only question has no content.
 
user12867493
8:36 AM
@RyanM Thanks, Iโ€™m not sure why I approved that, looking back.
 
user12867493
Although @CodyGrayโ€™s rejection reason is too extreme, I think.
 
user12867493
@RyanM Actually, I see why I did that. I didnโ€™t realise that they added ?> at the end of the code block as I didnโ€™t look at the markdown. If they did actually remove it (as I thought they did), I would have approved that edit again.
 
@Xnero ?> should have been removed. The names of programs MySQL and XAMPP are not code and should not be in a code block
 
8:53 AM
Abusing formatting with no legitimate basis, resulting in a post that is more difficult to read, is tantamount to vandalism.
The rejection reasons aren't judging the person who submits the edit, just the edit itself.
 
It was probably because of the character limit for suggested edits. The solution is to either find something other to actually improve or just not suggest the edit, not to make some random changes.
 
I see many more than 6 characters worth of edits that could have been made there. But yeah, even if you didn't, trading one incorrectly formatted block for another is... not an improvement.
 
@CodyGray I agree. My guess was just that the main goal of their edit was ?> and then they looked for something else to meet the character limit. But the other changes were no improvement.
 
9:10 AM
@gnat maybe also review the pending edit suggestion to fix the shouting
 
user12867493
@Dharman If ?> was removed, I would have approved it again.
 
@Xnero The worst of all possible review actions
 
user12867493
Maybe thatโ€™s enough conversation for one review now. If I flagged every incorrect review I saw in suggested edits, it would take me 10 times longer to review.
 
You don't have to flag all of them; rejecting them will do just fine. It's not worth flagging except where there's a pattern of incorrect suggestions and/or reviews.
You are also over 2k reputation, so you have full edit privileges. That means you can "Improve Edit" (which approves the suggestion and allows you to fix additional issues), or you can "Reject and Edit" (which rejects an edit that did something like abuse inline code formatting, but still allows you to edit to fix incorrect formatting of a code block).
It probably takes slightly longer if you are willing to edit when reviewing suggested edits, but it makes the experience and the site much better.
Most things that are worth doing take time, after all.
2
 
user12867493
9:28 AM
@CodyGray You have gotten me very confused, but as I said: โ€œMaybe thatโ€™s enough conversation for one review now.โ€.
 
You are confused about the "Improve Edit" and "Reject and Edit" buttons? No wonder reviewing suggested edits is no fun for you!
 
user12867493
9:40 AM
@CodyGray I was perfectly aware of how they worked before today.
 
Did they change today?
 
user12867493
@CodyGray They might have done if 2 random characters are counted as part of a code block and formatting is considered abuse.
 
user12867493
I will not be responding to further comments on this matter.
 
I am not sure I understand. I had not noticed that the operation of these options had changed recently.
 
9:57 AM
Fun fact, @PetterFriberg: Mods don't have a time limit on deletion of chat messages. Are you motivated to run in the next election yet? :-)
 
I'm not active enough anymore, I need to find my old spirit before the one I had when SHog9 was still around.
 
Ah, yeah, I'm still looking for that one, too. Let me know when you've solved the problem
 
They say "time heals all wounds" lets see...
 
Last seen more than 1 years ago (Thankfully, Jeff is not here)
 
10:14 AM
Anyone in here know enough about AWS to give me a sanity-check on merging into ?
 
@PetterFriberg oh hey there... how's things?
 
@JonClements \o/ Jon all good, vaccinated.. rebuilding house and tons of work (covid has been good business for sw developers). And you how are you holding up outside of EU?
 
@PetterFriberg All good here thanks... :p
 
10:46 AM
I was worried when I saw you had troubles with transports...
 
It's all good fun :p
 
true.. but lets hope you change your mind and come back, we are missing you...
 
 
1 hour later…
11:56 AM
Morning
 
@Vickel do you know how they call MSE over at so.pt?
Metão...
 
@bad_coder mean squared error?
or Meta Stack Exchange?
 
@blackgreen no not RMS or mean squared error but MSE
 
ah then I don't know :))
 
@blackgreen you're an NLP guy...
@blackgreen the joke in that case is the "ão" suffix in Portuguese makes a word mean big.
So saying: "blackgreenão" would mean "big blackgreen". So the suffix itself is frequently humorous. And saying MSE is the big meta is the humorous side of the name.
 
12:35 PM
really feels like a good burnination victim... I mean, even the tag excerpt suggests all its questions are opinion based
 
12:48 PM
@Tomerikoo So we should fight the evil [organization]?
 
1:23 PM
@CodyGray There is no "AWS QuickSight". The product is "Amazon QuickSight", but it can be used with AWS data (not exclusively AWS data though)
So yes should be made a synonym of
 
1:57 PM
@CodyGray Jon Skeet is a near-mythological figure on Stack Overflow, so the "thank Skeet" comment was a joke about him being the god of programmers here, e.g. "thank god" -> "thank Skeet"
 
2:24 PM
 
2:36 PM
So, what's the normal procedure to have questions/answers merged? A mod flag?
 
@AdrianMole Yes. Only diamonds can merge Q's
sorry about the pings, typing is hard ;)
 
Are we allowed to ask for opinions in here, first?
 
Who are the site moderators, and what is their role here?: "Moderators can perform large-scale maintenance actions such as merging questions and tags, tag synonym approvals, and so forth."
 
Sure
 
This one closed as a dupe (appropriately, IMHO) but has a nice answer that would also address the dupe target.
 
2:40 PM
@AdrianMole I shared some of my thoughts on Meta. We're gun-shy on merges (they're not easily undone) but we will merge them with a good enough case
 
@Machavity I must ask, do you tf2?
 
@rtaft I did. Not so much anymore
 
I've pretty much stopped. The bots are bad, and they are having all sorts or lag/connection issues lately, which makes playing almost impossible
 
@Machavity I had stopped for several years, picked it back up a few years ago. I kept seeing your avatar over the years and always wanted to ask, could never find Machavity on steam though
 
Yeah, I don't use this name for online games
 
2:46 PM
@NathanOliver. Yea I noticed the DDOS attacks lately. Most of the bots are on the event servers right now, so regular games aren't so bad
 
@NathanOliver I tried their comp mode once and... people were rampantly cheating
Overwatch has been a better game in most regards
Probably the closest we'll ever get to a TF3
 
Is TF TitanFall?
 
TeamFortress 2
I'm so old I played the original Quake mod...
 
Ah wow that's a throwback... I used to play TF in LAN shops back when Counter Strike was a thing
 
I think my first multiplayer fps was Quake2
yea CS, I tried that again not long ago but it seemed like most of the server were dust or dust2, couldn't find any italy or militia servers
 
2:53 PM
These days I mostly play Rocket League... There are no guns and it's mostly kids calling you a noob, but it's fun :D
 
I almost tried rocket league, was invited to play it and they took it off steam around that time, and/or ended linux support
never got motivated to get it to work
 
Any ista that can change the dupe list on this one? While the names make it look like it, the current dupe target is not correct. I put one in the comments
 
3:40 PM
 
3:56 PM
That's new. An answer begins with "Sorry I solved it."
 
sorry
 
Maybe they just like Mei
 
@Dharman If the answer was posted by the user who asked the question, that would explain the phrasing.
 
Would it?
 
4:12 PM
Yeah, I think so, especially if there were several comments, or other answers. User could mean something like "Sorry for the trouble/effort y'all had to put in, but I managed to solve my problem".
So, was it self-answered?
 
stackoverflow.com/posts/69833037/revisions the edit needs to go. It might be a superfluous thing(typo) but don't know enough of Unity to be certain.
 
@Dharman Yeah, that's what I thought. User is just being polite (as they see it). It's pleasantries, and can be edited out, as Petter just did.
 
Yeah, I haven't opened the post. I just saw my edit
 
5:01 PM
 
5:18 PM
@Tomerikoo seems to have been sorted already
 
5:28 PM
@tripleee Yep Thanks. The answer there could be deleted as well if you're interested...
 
Um, can anyone see a delete vote on this question? stackoverflow.com/questions/69732763/…
I voted to delete it yesterday but it is missing right now and when I try to cast a delete vote again, it tells me "you cannot recast a delete vote"
Why did my delete vote disappear?
 
Huh. So... it doesn't show below the post (like normal) but it shows in the mod vote list
 
Yeah
 
So it's still there
 
Well, the modal check tells me I can't recast one
not that I have already cast one
 
5:39 PM
Not directly related, but the post should get Roomba'd soon, shouldn't it?
 
@JeanneDark Yes in 2 days
I replied to Felippe on the MSE answer he wrote announcing its implementation about this
maybe he can look into what's going on behind the scenes
 
5:55 PM
 
@Machavity current hypothesis is that it's not there anymore, actually. When trying to vote to delete it yesterday, after I had already voted, I actually retracted it, despite the modals telling me the wrong thing.
And because delete-vote retractions don't currently show up in the timeline, it looked like it should still have been there
but Felippe as a staff member could see more info, including that I had apparently retracted my del vote.
 
Do you have a question you've del voted that isn't deleted yet?
 
I'm sure...
hang on
 
Yep, that's it. There's two dates by your missing delete flag. The second date must be when the system recorded a retraction
The delete on that latter one only has one date
I've not seen what the retraction looks like so TIL
 
7:35 PM
Hmm, it's really an issue that normal mods can't see a second date (and that it's not clear to mods who can see it that that's what it is)
 
While I find both the problem & solution very interesting I'm not sure that Stack Overflow is the right place for this, but then: where would one send the guy?
It basically came down to a misconfigured hardware appliance ...
 
@Machavity Can you take a screenshot of that, per chance?
 
@TylerH Normally that date is populated once the vote is successful and the public record about deletion is added. I forgot about retraction when I looked at it
 
@tink I'm not convinced it isn't on-topic here, but if anywhere might be better, it would probably be ServerFault, which covers "networking-related infrastructure administration". NICs and MAC addresses are clearly networking matters.
 
7:41 PM
@Machavity Thanks; I wanted to give an example to Filippe in the comment chain
 
@tink I'm still trying to figure out why it isn't a problem with how the kernel behaves.
 
@TylerH - well ... the hardware issue manifests itself while trying a software backend ... so still not really a problem with the program, though ... shrug
@Braiam - what would you expect the kernel to do? :) It recognises the IP but not the MAC, which is why wireshark can see the packets and why the app on the interface doesn't ...
 
@tink If the device was set to promiscuous (which wireshark does and is why is capable of seeing it), the asker would be able to see any packet that hit the wire.
 
Keep coming ...
 
8:12 PM
@TylerH I saw a similar behavior yesterday in Chinese.SE โ€” I have trusted user privileges there. I clicked to cast a delete vote on an answer even though I forgot I had already cast one and instead it retracted the vote. The text of the alert was reading as if that was my first delete vote
Not sure if it's the same issue you were talking about earlier
And the post timeline did not show a retraction
Anyway it definitely looked like a bug to me
 
@blackgreen It wouldn't surprise me if it's similar to this bug. I mean the same code works for everything so...
 
sounds like the same, but that Q&A is dated mid July. You think they reintroduced the bug?
 
That bug was for the API, but my bet is they recycle code and probably recycled the code that does retraction
 
makes sense
anyway in Chinese.SE there's basically only 3 trusted users who do user level moderation. Even if I forget having cast votes, on any given post there's a 1 in 3 chance that the delete vote is mine
¯_(ใƒ„)_/¯
 
@blackgreen Yeah it sounds like the same issue
You probably suffered from this bug: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/371331/…
not the one Machavity linked
 
8:23 PM
yes precisely
 
Yeah, that's a good point. Close votes have a good dialog there. They should have them standardized here as well
 
8:37 PM
 
9:07 PM
Ohh, you can retract delete votes now.
Then I made a mistake
PSA: Clicking again on the delete vote button retracts your delete vote and you cannot vote to delete again!
 
Hello, dharman ! ;)
 
Hello?
 
Yes ;)
 
Why are you singling me out?
 
Which greetings do you prefer?
 
9:19 PM
Their lack of
 
Usually, greetings are unnecessary noise. Dozens of us come and go all day: if we all greeted each other, the chatroom would be full of almost nothing else. Of course, there are exceptions.
 
Greetings are ok, but it's a bit worrying when you send greetings only to me.
 
I wanted to say hello to you, because for a long time didn't see
 
I usually just grunt at RyanM and he cowers in fear, and then we move on. It is the way
4
 
I sleep and work from time to time
 
9:20 PM
@Machavity I still don't know how you get the grunt to come out of my speakers. Must be a mod thing.
 
I cannot reveal all the secrets of the moderator tools. I am bound by blood oath
 
There's a button in mod tools called "Grunt at Ryan M"
 
If you want to talk, we can in ...hats room
 
I wanted to play games on steam, so I think I have to disappoint you
 
I want to talk with all of us ;) It is a nice practice for my rough English)
Blood oath? Oo Satanic things (โ€˜โ—‰โŒ“โ—‰โ€™)
 
9:24 PM
what now?
 
๐Ÿšฝ
 
Machavity told about blood oath
But i can't ping him because of rules
 
๐Ÿ˜
 
hmm
 
I can't ping anymore. A lot of moderators warned me :(
 
9:28 PM
does making the name in an @ italic or bold cause it to not ping
 
I have to confess, it's not a blood oath. It's far worse. It's GDPR...
 
@italic?
How to make?
 
@KevinB test?
 
italic
 
it does still ping
wait no you did the @ italic too
 
9:29 PM
Oh, I'm in California, though, so blood oaths involving me fall under CCPA instead.
 
@manro The issue was you pinged moderators about doing things that could be handled with flags. No moderator hangs out in chat to get pings for stuff about posts
 
@*Dharman* test
err, it un-italiced it
lol
 
@KevinB The chat formatting engine never fails to disappoint ;-)
 
It rendered for a brief moment as italic
 
Replying to messages is perfectly fine. But don't go around asking us to undelete stuff for you. Raise a flag for that if you think there's an issue
 
9:30 PM
@KevinB It's not a bug, it's a feature!
 
@Machavity it means, that i can ping moderators for other things?
 
you can ping moderators to say hello
 
@manro As long as it's related to the conversation at hand, yes
 
the intent was to have an @ someone that doesn't actually ping
 
you can probably use backticks for that
 
9:35 PM
 
@Machavity hurray ;) ban and moderators really stimulated me: being near the edge isn't funny, but productively)
 
10:08 PM
@PetterFriberg Is it just Jon that you're missing, or all of the Brits? :-)
@TylerH Oh wow. Zoom... that went right over my head. Thanks for clarifying.
@Machavity Online games other than Stack Overflow? I think you need to be more specific.
 
@CodyGray yeah, went over mine, too. I read it the same way you did.
 
@tink Yes, that's on-topic here for SO. They're solving a problem in a programming context. Even if it ultimately turns out to be caused by a hardware problem, it's still on-topic.
 
10:44 PM
Is this question a duplicate of that question?
 
11:08 PM
@Turing85 Hmmmmmmmm. Kiiiind of. I feel like there's probably some way to write an answer along the lines of yours that would apply more generally.
But I'm not sure exactly how I'd write it.
 
@RyanM It would be easier if we had a canonical about atomicity, which operations are canonoical and which aren't. But the post would be pretty broad, and answer probably quite lenghty. At least if they are not language-specific...
 
It'd definitely need to be at least language-specific.
 
11:31 PM
@KenWhite Eehhhhhh I think this is a development question. No non-developer would ever try to run IIS on a MacBook Pro.
 
I re-read it, and you're right. Removed and voted to reopen. My mistake. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
 
Thanks, and np!
 
11:57 PM
 

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