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3:12 AM
@brzuchal Here's a big step toward putting together all the RFC data: github.com/ramsey/php-rfcs/blob/main/resources/metadata.json
 
strtoupper("good morning room")
 
 
4 hours later…
6:57 AM
Any plans to fix this? (The difference between null-- and null - 1) 3v4l.org/KRIVd
 
JRL
think that's silly? check this out: 3v4l.org/vWWPe
 
Yeah, bad example (should have used predecrement) but the behaviour is still bad
It also doesn't behave the same for chars: 3v4l.org/uEVJt
 
JRL
hmmm
this would suggest that these operators aren't optimized as calls to the normal binary ops
 
7:42 AM
@Derick It was already ~33% a few weeks ago :)
 
8:01 AM
@OndřejMirtes wiki.php.net/rfc/increment_decrement_fixes but seems dead
 
9:00 AM
@NikiC github.com/php/php-src/commit/… => should remain "-dev" while tagging RCs? Or it should indeed be "RC" but int the tags only and remaining "-dev" in the "8.1 development branch"?
 
@PatrickAllaert The development branch must always be -dev. You can create separate branches for releases
 
Yes, I realized I tagged on the branch 8.1 directly
 
Though I think for pre-release versions usually you do just tag on 8.1 directly and then revert to dev
 
Ok, but so you confirm it was correct (for the tag) to change those as well?
 
@PatrickAllaert yeah
 
9:07 AM
Values of PDO::PARAM_ constants have changed ・ PDO Core ・ #81405
 
@PatrickAllaert It needs to be 8.1.0RC2-dev in PHP-8.1, and 8.2.0-dev in master
 
@Derick oh... ok, didn't expect that, fixing...
@Derick ZEND_VERSION stays "4.1.0-dev" or "4.1.0RC2-dev" ?
 
9:32 AM
Morning
 
@PatrickAllaert I never cared much about that :-) Don't know... really. What did we do with 7.4?
 
@PatrickAllaert Thoughts on retagging rc1 for bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=81405?
 
hard coding constant values... IMO it's up to them to sort it :-)
 
Agreed with Derick, but I really don't mind re-tagging
as it's not yet released
 
If you don't mind... but beware that Remi will have to redo work, and new windows binaries will also have to be built
 
cmb
9:58 AM
Doing the Windows binaries is way less work, since it is done as GH action. :)
 
Isn't automation nice? :-)
 
@cmb You've got mail,@remi as well, but can't "ping" him here
 
cmb
@PatrickAllaert re-tag is fine for me. @RemiCollet?
 
You can merge https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/7445
Both @cmb and @RemiCollet confirmed they are ok with retagging.
 
10:20 AM
Hi guys (I'm mostly back online...)
@cmb would you have some time to check github.com/php/php-src/pull/6752 which replace github.com/php/php-src/pull/6752
 
cmb
Sorry, totally forgot about that. I have reviewed now. If there is an ABI break, this should be part of the re-tag.
 
@cmb this is a private API, not a public one, so no urgency and can also be push in stable branch
 
cmb
ah, right! :)
 
10:38 AM
Mhhh, isn't that adding a new param to ZipArchive::getStream()?
oh, never mind, was looking at the wrong PR apparently
 
XSS on the main page. I suggest not to visit the main site until SO clarified whether any of our user credentials have been at risk
 
oopsie!
 
cmb
@RemiCollet, any idea how to fix github.com/cmb69/pecl-mail-mailparse/runs/…? Shouldn't
 
10:56 AM
@cmb strange that HAVE_MBSTRING is not defined...
/me goes for lunch
 
cmb
bon appétit!
 
 
1 hour later…
12:06 PM
\o
@Ekin gracias
 
12:30 PM
@PatrickAllaert any ETA for new tag / tarball ? (just to organize myself)
 
Just saw that the fix is merged, about to tag in ~30 min
 
12:50 PM
@Sara Which encodings are supported for method names, I know well your table-flip repo, that is of course UTF-8, but say, for example, could I have a method with SJIS encoding (just to portrary an example)
Plus sorry to address you directly but I feel you are the one who knows this best, also Hi!
 
1:11 PM
@RemiCollet, @ramsey, @JoeWatkins, @cmb, @NikiC: tag php-8.1.0RC1 recreated and tarballs uploaded.
 
@PatrickAllaert thanks
 
cmb
We may consider to move this repo to the php org, just in case I'm not available.
Not sure who would upload to windows.php.net in that case, though.
 
@PatrickAllaert Thanks! Why did it need to be re-tagged?
Nevermind. I see the thread now.
Makes sense.
@cmb Do you build them locally, or are they built on a Windows server in Azure, etc.?
 
@PatrickAllaert Let's make sure we update the docs with these notes, for future reference :-)
@cmb Nice. Where does it save the output of the builds?
ah... I see... the "artifacts"
 
cmb
1:21 PM
@ramsey it creates an artifact, which has to be FTP'd to window.php.net manually
 
FTP'd or SSH'd?
er... SCP'd
 
cmb
windows.php.net FTP upload is only allowed for certain IPs ...
FTPS
 
I wonder if we could automate that as part of a GitHub action, using SCP and an SSH key
Would be nice to trigger build when a new tag is found in php-src and then upload the artifacts using SCP... all without a human
 
cmb
More automation would certainly be nice, but that would need to be discussed with Alex Schoenmaker (admin of window.php.net).
Also we should run the tests before uploading.
 
@cmb Yep. I wasn't saying otherwise, but if the tests pass, it's safe to upload, right?
 
cmb
1:31 PM
currently, I'm uploading (after smoke test php -v), and then trigger the test runs (they fetch from windows.php.net)
It has been this way since forever.
 
ah
so, right now, the tests are not run before uploading?
 
cmb
nope
 
got it
 
cmb
phpize doesn't seem to handle PHP_ADD_EXTENSION_DEP on Linux; anybody experienced that?
 
I guess a "baby step" would be to automate the process the way you do it now, and then, after that works, re-work it to run the tests first
 
@PatrickAllaert I don't know if we have permission to do this, but I know you can tell an errored job to run again
 
I guess so, but indeed, have no "rights" to do so
 
I guess we do. I just restarted it
I logged in with my GitHub account and had the option to restart it
@cmb Why isn't windows.php.net listed here? wiki.php.net/systems
 
cmb
@ramsey don't know; would probably make sense to list it there
 
@ramsey Apparently I can too
 
1:42 PM
@cmb I added a link to the list, but the page will need to be created with all the details
 
Do we manage windows.php.net ourself? Have the feeling the page lists what is part of "our" infrastructure
 
@PatrickAllaert It should at least list the contacts for the system
 
cmb
windows.php.net is managed by Alex Schoenmaker (who doesn't have a php.net account, but doesn't work for MS either)
well, there is windows.php.net/team
 
For example, I don't know Alex and didn't know he manages the server
ah
I guess we link to that from the wiki page, then ;-)
 
@cmb If I would tag and PECL release Xdebug 3.1.0beta1 now, would there be Windows binaries build for it?
And, which VS/VC does it use? VS16?
 
cmb
1:49 PM
@Derick nope, I haven't set that up yet (will probably do on Thursday evening). Anyway, PHP 8.1 uses VS16. (PHP 8.2 might use VS17, if we manage to get that working; VS2022 is still in preview)
 
k
I have AppVeyor building my own ones, I think
@cmb Ah no, only 8.0 - does the SDK support 8.1 yet, if I just add it to my config at github.com/xdebug/xdebug/blob/master/.appveyor.yml#L29 ?
I could just try...
 
cmb
@Derick I think that will work.
 
@cmb Seems so:

Extracting archive: c:\build-cache\php-devel-pack-8.1.0rc1-Win32-VS16-x64.zip
 
cmb
cool! the SDK isn't the problem anyway; it's just that QA releases need to be available on windows.php.net
 
now keeping my fingers crossed whether the tests pass :-D
Tests failed : 0 ( 0.0%) ( 0.0%)\
yay!
 
2:13 PM
gg
 
2:32 PM
\o/
 
2:43 PM
@PatrickAllaert Did you not bump the version in the PHP-8.1 branch to 8.1.0RC2-dev yet?
can't see it in the branch
 
 
1 hour later…
3:44 PM
@Derick about to do it now, but I don't quite get why it should be 8.1.0RC2-dev in configure.ac while PHP_VERSION remains "8.1.0-dev" and will only be set to "8.1.0RC2" for the tag
 
PHP_VERSION should also change...
It is so that when you see a version "8.1.0-dev" right now, you don't know which build it was
was it before 8.1.0RC1? or after? before RC2, or after?...
afaik PHP_VERSION gets updated from configure.ac now too
 
PHP_VERSION should be 8.1.0RC2-dev and for the RC2 tag, changed to 8.1.0RC2 ?
 
MYSQLI_CLIENT_COMPRESS does not work with aurora MySQL Compatible ・ MySQLi related ・ #81406
 
4:00 PM
Sure, but the docker build script should handle all of that
 
5:18 PM
morns
 
There's class_uses but not trait_uses hm
 
5:57 PM
@Gordon do you know if this is still an issue
 
@ln-s You can use class_uses for traits
@ln-s effectively:
 
I know
 
function trait_uses(string $traitName, bool $autoload = true): array|false
{
    return class_uses($traitName, $autoload);
}
 
Was stating that it's inconsistent, there should be a core alias
 
Oh, right. There is an actual trait_exists
 
6:02 PM
yep
 
Actually looking at the functions class_implements, class_parents and class_uses are part of the SPL extension while class_exists, interface_exists and trait_exists are a part of the Classes/Object Functions on the wiki. This might explain the inconsistency
 
no, that's just another inconsistency :-P
 
xD
thing_exists and call it a day
 
@JellyLegend you mean the manual?
wiki is where RFCs are posted
 
personally I'm fine with functions that work for class/interface/trait being named class_*, it's an artifact of the fact they are all "class entries" internally, and meta functions like that are inherently coupled to internals a bit
 
6:06 PM
docuwiki !== docbook
 
@ln-s Yeah I ment manual
@Tiffany Wut wrong tag
 
SO chat is flawed
 
mainly because it's used by people
 
:P
so it depends on where they're located in the code, the manual reflects it... ... inconsistencies
almost wonder if stuff should be moved, like that's a thing I can contribute towards php-src (organizing code), but not sure if that's...preferred...
 
6:37 PM
@NikiC danke (adding the doc bug spammer to spam list)
 
@Tiffany my understanding is probably not worth doing. The problem is that with multiple maintained branches means that any changes either take quiet a bit or work to merge, as they have to be applied to the lowest maintained branch and then merged upwards, or they have an ongoing cost as they make merging bug-fixes harder.
Adding comments to functions and macros is possibly a more useful 'boring' thing.
 
@Tiffany The spam problem is becoming really bad :/
 
Is that on our infrastructure or github?
 
@Danack Our infrastructure ... obviously :(
Will probably have to try to mass delete these comments from the DB
... maybe I can typo the query and drop the database, so we have an excuse to move?
I did a little in-production edit because the deploy is too rare...
 
6:57 PM
@NikiC the main thing people objecting to moving, is having a single linear history of bugs, and also not having to risk losing a whole load of bug reports (because that is totally a thing that is valuable) if the PHP project ever moves away from using github.
If we:
* Close bugs.php.net to all new bugs, except those created by logged in php.net accounts.
* Mirror any new bugs created on github to bugs.php.net with the appropriate packages etc.
* Mirror comments + updates from github to bugs.php.net.
that would address that concern probably.
 
So work on GitHub, but mirror everything back to bugs.php.net for archival purposes?
 
yeah. And if we ever ditch github, a similar thing could be setup for whatever is next.
 
Hm. What about the mismatch between Github's data model and bugs's?
 
for the record though, I don't think there's that much difference in actual spam, vs people who think they are helping but actually annoying as fuck.
@Crell the main one is images as bugs.php.net doesn't support them.....which one's are you thinking about?
s/'//
 
Doesn't bugs have a lot of facet type fields that GitHub does not?
 
7:08 PM
@Crell I haven't looked, but my understanding is they could be added - docs.github.com/en/communities/…
 
huh. I didn't realize that existed. Could work.
 
there would still be some munging of the data.....but think enough stuff could be covered to make it be more than acceptable.
 
@Danack That's quite awesome. I had no idea that existed. Do you know of an example that uses that?
 
possibly not the best example, as those guys are not good with computers, but it's there.
 
I think I'll put together one of those for Amp. I wonder if I push it to the .github repo if it its mirrored on all repos. I would assume so…
 
8:02 PM
Small things that amuse me at my job: highest logging level is called 'DELUGE', the next level that is 'BANTER'
My code is chatting at me vs OMG IT'S A FLOOD OF LOG MESSAGES
 
Need to add PLAID as the top-level.
 
@StatikStasis I'll pop a game in your mind, Scavengers
 
Is it normal for other teams in your company to provide really bad code and refuse you access to their code bases?
 
@Blue How do you know it's really bad code if they refuse you access to their code bases
 
@Blue IN your company only other teams provide really bad code? :D
 
8:09 PM
I've was given an old version to a file share, it was bad. No access to repositories
I am offering to do their work. Is this normal?
 
Every company is a world appart
How many jobs have you had in the past
 
3, this is biggest company
 
as a dev
3, ok not a lot, yes it's normal to have people coding like shit if that is what you are refering to
it's a usual problem, management won't see it while that cheddar is cranking or they don't want to see it, it's normal to have a huge technical debt specially in big companies
 
> No access to repositories
That's not normal. Even if you can't always commit to a repo belonging to another team, not having any access ....is bad.
 
It's in their best interest to keep that scheme going, but hey, HR can lure more people to the meat grinder with free cheese and ping pong
 
8:16 PM
@Blue Yes it's normal. Well, at least not providing you access to other team's codebases.
 
8:50 PM
@JRL I'm going to prepare a draft of the order-enum RFC. Anything you want me to include, or bikesheds that should be had first? (Eg, Order vs Ordering vs Sort vs Sorting, etc.)
 
what's wrong with good ol fashioned numbers? (Actual Q)
 
Because half of us can never remember which is 1 and which is -1. Also, magic numbers.
 
So a usort would end up as fn($a, $b) => $a === $b ? Order::SAME : ($a > $b ? Order:Greater : Order:Less) ?
 
Or something like that, yes.
 
Blurgh :-) That's not making it easier.
 
8:59 PM
The alternative is user-space constants, which would also work but not be a closed set.
 
It seems the alternative is using <negative> 0 <positive>
 
@MarkR You can't have uncomparable with just numbers (well the engine currently handles it in a very shait way, enums give you that option)
 
We would traditionally use null or false for that I'd think?
@Tiffany Do you need to know which one?
 
cmb
@Girgias this is the only reason why I might wanted to change the current scheme
 
9:09 PM
@cmb Well, it's a very compelling reason, and I agree the only one tbh
 
@MarkR I don't need to know... I was suggested to use empty() but I wrote the first function instead to avoid accessing the property more than once ... I also like that the first function gives more specific log messages
 
If a sort required returning an enum, I'd give it 30 seconds before someone wrote a function that returned the enum based on the old behaviour. I mean, we'd probably ship with it in core.
 
JRL
@Crell I was planning on using Ordering::Equivalent, Ordering::Smaller, Ordering::Larger, Ordering::Uncomparable
 
The biggest issue I personally find is "which" one is it referring to. Is it A that's bigger or B
 
JRL
always left to right
like all other binary ops int he language
 
cmb
9:15 PM
What would happen if a sorting function gets a Ordering::Uncomparable?
 
JRL
two things that are uncomparable are also unsortable
so it should probably error
this is currently implemented in the engine by checking if > and < return the same value
according to nikic
 
cmb
Yes, but that is my concern regarding sort() and friends. Probably nobody checks the result of sort(), because it is always true.
 
JRL
right, that's why i would say error instead of return a value
if the program encounters something unsortable like that in the middle of execution, it is fairly unlikely that the program will be able to complete as expected without developer intervention
so an error makes sense in that scenario
 
cmb
@JRL hmm, while some stuff makes no sense per se, it might not "break" the app, so maybe have a deprecation phase first?
 
JRL
@cmb where it returns false instead you mean?
 
cmb
9:27 PM
that doesn't matter to me; more like E_DEPRECATED "comparison of uncomparable values is deprecated, and will throw an Error in the future" (something like that, so that users can fix/adapt their code)
 
JRL
oh i see what oyu mean
 
@JRL I think what he means is that when something uncomparable is encountered emit a E_WARNING or E_DEPRECATE indicating that sorting uncomparable values is deprecated/non-sense and keep the current "broken" behaviour
 
JRL
right
i can personally see the advantages of both, and in general i would defer to what voters wanted on that issue. I would argue that we should work towards uncomparable sorts resulting in an error, but I would personally be fine with a deprecation path OR with doing it immediately.
 
Throwing would certainly give opportunity to include a message saying what happened e.g. SortingException msg => "value FooClass could not be compared to int"
 
JRL
that sort of thing would become much more important with my operator overloads as well if they were also included
this would however allow me to change my RFC so that the return of __compareTo() is the Ordering enum
Also, just to confirm @Crell, in this RFC we're introducing the Ordering enum and allowing it to work in the places you would use a sorting function in place of -1, 0, 1, but we're not replacing the int values as valid, so people can still use the int values instead
the idea being that this addition allows us to move in that direction in the future we wanted to
 
9:49 PM
One of my favourite things about sorting is the ability to chain spaceships, makes sorting on multiple values really handy
So how would your changes effect spaceships?
 
JRL
chain them? can you give an example? spaceship would still return ints with this RFC was the plan, so it wouldn't affect it at all right now
this RFC does two things: add the internal enum, and allow the enum to work in place of ints for the various sort functions if provided
 
($a->value1 <=> $b->value1) ?: ($a->value2 <=> $b->value2)
 
JRL
that code should be unaffected since <=> will still return int values
 
10:19 PM
@JRL Correct. Whether we deprecate raw ints in the future is for someone else in the future to ask. We're not doing that here. Just providing a closed set of constants, really.
Should we punt on Incomparable until the custom operators RFC? It seems like the only place it would realistically be used.
 
JRL
10:54 PM
@Crell I don't think so. It could still be used with usort(), and it's one of the things that this enum would make much easier over using ints
or rather, it's the thing that isn't represented by the int values but does have a concept in the engine, so it would be the thing that adds something tangible immediately for PHP devs
 

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