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1:42 AM
@CharlesSprayberry The simplest solution would probably be to catch the exception. :)
 
 
8 hours later…
9:14 AM
@SaifEddinGmati Is this self-made or an existing solution?
 
9:55 AM
@Trowski That's fair. Generally if I know an exception can be thrown I'll take steps to ensure not having to deal with catching it. However, if you can't see any real benefit from the addition of this new method I can figure something out.
 
 
5 hours later…
2:45 PM
@IluTov self made, symfony/interiajs/tailwind
 
@Trowski Depends on context though … don't know, pythons "try doing something and handle the exception" paradigm annoys the hell out of me
 
3:14 PM
people.php.net displays "Something happened to main" ・ Systems problem ・ #81005
 
@SaifEddinGmati I just hope we won't run into hosting trouble or security issues again. Also, does sound a little like NIH syndrome. I have nothing against a self-made solution if it provides something we can't get anywhere else, but is that actually the case here?
 
dunno, now it's a side project that i'm enjoying working on; as i said, I'm releasing it as OSS anyways when it's done \o
2FA: https://github.com/scheb/2fa
Password reset: https://github.com/SymfonyCasts/reset-password-bundle ( split token )
Email verification: https://github.com/SymfonyCasts/verify-email-bundle
OAuth2 server: https://github.com/thephpleague/oauth2-server-bundle
 
@SaifEddinGmati OSS surely mitigates some security issues. But just as an example, I've recently used scheb/2fa and it provides 0 protection against bruteforce which is incredibly bad for a 6 character code that can be guessed in probably a couple of seconds.
 
i defaulted to 8 and there's a doc on how to do it, planning on using symfony rate limiter to implement it
@IluTov yea, planning on using Rate limiter to implement that basically
 
@SaifEddinGmati That's good. It was just an example to show that security risks can still arise if you don't read the fine print.
 
3:26 PM
Yea i know, trying my best, then will open it for the public to review
@IluTov as for hosting, we should
really reach out to a SaaS provider for sponsorship ( Heroku, PlatformSh, Laravel Forge, SymfonyCloud and countless other )
 
3:41 PM
... yeah sorry @Danack I'll probably stop fanboiing over it at some point but in the meantime you'll have to suffer the occasional exalted ping: systemantics is pretty life-changing. I think it's the best thing since I started reading since rapid development.
I think I was starting to feel some of its principles in the last years but reading it ties so much of my intuitions together
 
I bought it yesterday, need to start reading it
 
rapid development?
 
another book that have had a pretty big influence on me, about development of computer projects
it's pretty old, so some of the things that feature code might feel a bit ancient, but the general principles and case studies are incredibly interesting
 
how well does it format on kindle?
 
3:44 PM
no idea, I bought a used copy a few years ago
 
used is pretty cheap...
I need to actually finish the two books I've bought though
 
hehehe that can be a valid strategy :P
 
still chewing through At the Edge of Time
 
that sounds like physics
... or an blind guardian album
 
@IluTov related question, does it make sense to allow only 3 attempts per minute? considering the code is 8 characters long, that's about 63 years ... ( and the code changes every 20 seconds + 1 code window )
 
3:49 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier yeah, physics/cosmology
it's pretty interesting, and a pretty good "introduction" to cosmology and physics for someone who doesn't have much experience with either
 
@SaifEddinGmati Wait, we have a Discord now? I didn't make it.
 
didn't knew either lol
 
it was created by Fabor a couple years ago
lots of people joined it, but most people were "begrudging" about it and haven't logged into discord (or probably forgot they have a discord account)
 
Tiffany the historian strikes again... :-)
 
4:01 PM
it was active for about a year, but people have either stopped using discord, deleted their account, or forgot about their account. it ended up with two or three active people, which is when I left
there's an Among PHP discord, with a small number of r11, but it's for playing Among Us on Sunday evenings (US central, UTC-6 or UTC-5)
and there's StatikStasis's server but it's not specific to r11
neither of those are specific to r11
the r11 discord is basically teresko's server now
 
I drop there once in a while. Sajad is a regular as well
 
@CharlesSprayberry Well, wouldn't the method just be checking for pcntl anyway?
 
Segmentation fault 11 on OSX 11 ・ *General Issues ・ #81006
 
4:40 PM
Is anyone around to check over the updated is_literal RFC, been looking at it a bit too much, and I'm not sure what words are any more :-)
 
@Trowski Sure, or in the TracingDriver case delegating to the driver it wraps. The other drivers could just be defaulted to return true since if you're using them you have signal support
@Trowski I think I see what you're getting at. I suppose could always just check for any extension loaded that supports signals. I guess I'd just prefer something where I didn't have to keep up with which extensions might or might not support them.
It isn't an especially pressing need.
 
Well, yes, and no. In general you're going to need pcntl, even with the other extensions.
Technically adding a method to Driver is a BC break (though a rather minor one).
That's mostly the reason why I didn't immediately say "sure, submit a PR."
 
4:55 PM
@Trowski I see.
 
What do you think @kelunik? Small enough BC break and simple enough feature?
 
Hey everyone
can anyone help me out?
0
Q: Wordpress theme development: variables from included files are blank when being used in functions.php

Christopherat the top of my functions.php I included another PHP file like the example below: <php? //file.php $var1 = "abc"; $var2 = "123" ?> In functions.php: <?php include 'file.php'; // echoing or using the variable in functions.php returns a blank value ?> In functions.php I included f...

 
@Christopher <php? not <?php?
 
<?php :p
 
ugh, markdown removing backticks :-P
 
4:59 PM
thanks, I corrected that small mistake in my question
for some reason it seems to do the same thing for environment variables
even if I try echo or use the variable its just returns blank instead of the value
 
@SaifEddinGmati What I did in my application was just to block the user after 5 attempts I think. How are you making sure the user can only log in 3 times a minute?
 
symfony/rate-limiter component
it's pretty easy to implement
 
@Christopher I know this is primitive, but is it worth sticking in an exit('hi'); in file.php to make sure it's being included?
 
yes sure I will try it out
 
@SaifEddinGmati Oh, you mentioned that, sorry. I don't know that component but it sounds suitable. 3 attempts per minute seem safe but I also see little use of more than something like 5 attempts. If you got it wrong 5 times you're unlikely to get it right after that. At that point you're probably better off blocking the user altogether or at least resetting the 2fa token.
 
5:25 PM
\o
 
@Trowski it isn't in Amp v2
 
@kelunik Marco will tell you that adding a method can conflict with a method a child class may have declared :P That's why we declare everything final.
But yeah… in the world of BC breaks, it's about the smallest I can think of.
 
@Trowski Interesting. I hadn't thought of that before
 
@kelunik @Trowski I can both congratulate the both of you on getting a feature into php-src, while disagreeing that its a good thing ... I know it's a lot of effort to get anything done, and I appreciate that effort ... but I don't have to think it's good ... I hope there's no hard feelings ...
I'd also like to point out that if anyone should have hard feelings, it's me ... I basically wasted ten years ...
 
5:35 PM
@JoeWatkins No hard feelings at all, I'm glad you have no hard feelings against us. We can have different views of the app architecture for future PHP, doesn't mean we can't still be friends. :)
I still think there's an opportunity for threading, but it needs to be compatible with the loop scheduling fibers. Totally understand if that's not something you want to pursue. It's certainly on my list.
 
@Trowski of course, I already tried to show that, I reviewed it and suggested a couple of patches ... we have to work on this code together, I've no problem doing that ...
@Trowski I really don't ... it's not like I haven't thought about it ... the only thing that would make the complexity worth it is utilizing hardware to the fullest, the means M:N, shared nothing is not in the way of that - PHP isn't really shared nothing any more ... but what is in the way of that is extremely high complexity, of the kind I would vote against myself, and will if you suggest it, and I'll be much much more vocal about it ...
PHP is moving in a dangerous direction, a bus factor of two is utterly unacceptable ... we need to slow down and build up our developer base ...
 
@JoeWatkins I don't think M:N is a good idea. More like M x 1:N. Proposing something like that to core would be a long way down the road, if ever because of the ZTS requirement.
For the most part, I can build the architecture I'm envisioning with multiple processes. Threads might be nice for easier data sharing, but generally CPU bound tasks just isn't want PHP is usually used for.
 
the easiest thing for the programmer, is an M:N model, that is what they will expect when they write code ... the only thing that can ensure full use of available hardware is M:N ...
 
It will feel like M:N, but fibers can't jump threads. That just leads to nightmares.
 
yes they can ... you not being able to imagine something doesn't make it a bad idea ... whatever, I don't want anyone to go down this road ... it will be bad for php ...
 
5:48 PM
They can, I'm saying that doing so is not a good idea.
That snowballs into needing the same locking over data that you need in threading when using fibers.
 
it looks like we agree ... "it snowballs" it kind of my point exactly ...
but you imagine that there is some size of snowball that we can keep control of, and I don't
 
Swoole appears to have had great success with a model similar to what I'm envisioning. So I think there's potential.
 
you would vote to include swoole in php-src ?
 
No, I don't like the way it alters existing behavior.
 
do whatever you like in the privacy of your own extension ... but doing that in php-src, that's totally different ... I don't think many people would vote to include something as complicated as swoole ...
 
5:52 PM
I certainly would not. I argued exactly that when some of the Swoole developers suggested that we should be including all of Swoole, not just fibers.
 
personally ( as an end user ), i would hate to have swoole as-is in php-src, as it breaks how per-existing functions works.
 
@SaifEddinGmati Exactly this. Doing that is a very bad idea for the community.
 
okay, and if it didn't modify functions, you'd include it ?
 
Still no. Swoole is an opinionated framework.
Given fibers in core, the rest can remain in an extension.
 
you're making no sense
 
5:55 PM
^ PHP should include bare minimum needed for people to do async programming, fiber is too little, as you would still need amphp/reactphp to be able to use, swoole is too much
 
@SaifEddinGmati I'd like to eventually build an event loop that can be in core. You're aware of the basis of that work, which once established I wanted to build an extension using libuv as the backend.
 
but ...
> Given fibers in core, the rest can remain in an extension.
 
We can run it as an extension for a while, perhaps eventually add it to core.
 
i think he means stuff like http servers, websocket servers/clients ... etc, which makes sense, and can be also implemented in user space
 
5:58 PM
I think I'll try to make it harder to get extensions into core at all ... the thinking on this is so confused, even from one individual in the space of a few minutes ...
the only real justification for adding an extension is that it has a wide userbase, nothing else makes sense ... you'll be able to see that's true for FFI, but probably can't see it's true for fibers for exactly the same reasons ...
if your ev loop is deployed and everybody is using it and it has a bunch of installs and good docs, then it's a no brainer, we add it ... the same should have been true of FFI, and fibers ... you shouldn't be able to argue any other case than we need to bundle it because people are using it ...
you can imagine that with every 1000 installs, we can even justify a little more complexity, it opens the door in a sense ..
 
That is the plan for the event loop.
 
maybe not 1000, I dunno what the number is, but I hope you see my point ...
 
But clearly if we want any async-enabled functions in core, there needs to be an event loop.
This is more of a 5 year plan, not something I'm going to propose to 8.2 :)
An event loop should be able to exist as an extension without issue.
Integrating it into core would only come after there was a clear demand and benefit to do so.
 
everything should be able to exist as an extension, and when/if the time comes where we don't think that's possible, the answer is not bundling the extension, the answer is developing core so that it does allow the thing you want to do in an extension ...
 
unrelated q: can you modify syntax via an extension? I think XHP ( facebooks extension for <elements /> ) did this before?
 
6:08 PM
Nope, can't be done.
 
well ... not easily, but yes ...
 
I'd love to know how that's done.
You'd have to alter the parser. I wasn't aware of any available hooks there.
 
zend_compile_file
 
this is Saras fork for PHP 7, not sure if it still works: github.com/phplang/xhp
 
M:N?
 
6:16 PM
I just have this sinking feeling when I think about the future, the day is coming when dmitry and nikita decide to other things with their lives ... what do we do then, nobody really knows enough to carry the project ...
 
rm -rf / ?
 
PHP - The worlds most important barely funded essential project
 
nurture an environment for others to take the mantle
 
I shouldn't have wasted so much time on things that would turn out to be irrelevant ...
 
@JoeWatkins All input is relevant... even if you don't get what you want, you would still have had an impact.
 
6:22 PM
@JoeWatkins Well, that's pretty cool. Though after looking at that lib, I think my answer is still nope, can't be done :)
 
well your answer is wrong, it can be done ...
 
Note the sarcasm :P
 
I said it's not easy, and should have been translated to not nice to look at or think about or write or consider ... but it can be done ...
 
I wasn't aware of that, everyone always acts like the only way to add a keyword to PHP is in core.
 
well that's because you can't use a keyword that's only available when you have a particular ext loaded, because that's horrible ...
 
6:24 PM
but reading the code, i don't think it's possible for 2 extensions to add new keywords which are used in the same file.
 
Does a keyword not have to be built into the grammar file at compilation?
 
a grammar file, sure ...
don't use the words can't be done/impossible ... remember that in core we are working at one layer above 0, and can go to 0 if we like, there's very little that's actually impossible ...
 
@JoeWatkins So then is using syntax that's only available if you have a particular extension loaded.
@SaifEddinGmati I didn't check, but does that parser copy the entire PHP parser, then add to it?
 
i guess?
 
If so, that's just not going to be practical to do in an extension you plan on distributing.
 
6:27 PM
i might be wrong
also can't support multiple PHP versions with different sytnax feature, unless you have multiple parsers for each ...
which would probably be ugly
 
Yep, certainly looks to be the case.
Probably fine if using the extension internally, but impractical IMO to distribute publicly.
 
that's just the xhp parser
it's a preprocessor
you do not have to include the whole parser
 
Hmm… I saw definitions for things like T_THROW, so I may have jumped to conclusions.
 
well it has to have context, that's what gives it context, if it doesn't know how to parse php, where does it get context?
 
I suppose xhp is a poor example because it's so complex.
An extension adding, for example, a suspend keyword could simply preprocess a file to swap suspend expr to Fiber::suspend(expr) and pass it to the PHP parser.
If I'm understanding correctly.
 
6:40 PM
look here, so you set compile_file/string, you get a file handle, you pre-process it with your syntax and modify it so that the parser can handle it, there's more than one strategy to rewrite the file - one you can imagine easily is turning your special tokens to comments, but it's not very nice - then you call the original compiler
oh yeah, in the case of transformations, you can come up with something that's not even so horrible ...
 
Yeah, neat, that's not horrible at all.
 
hm, so an event loop extension can add async/await/concurrently keywords ...
 
yes
 
@SaifEddinGmati Pretty much what I was just thinking. Convert async $object->method(); to async(fn() => $object->method()).
 
6:46 PM
Well thank you @JoeWatkins for correcting my preconceived notions, as you often do :P
I'm not sure actually doing that in an extension is a good idea, but neat to know it's possible.
 
I think the async/await use case is probably the first time I would have said it's a perfectly good idea ... I mean in that case, async/await are totally meaningless without the extension, so parse errors are not a problem ... I don't generally like it ...
 
It's not really necessary though, just syntactic sugar.
 
well so is everything ... I think you can justify it because these points in the code will stick out as something different, and they should ...
I dunno if understood, pretty stoned ... I mean you don't want it to look like normal calls, or that it doesn't look like normal calls is desirable ...
 
eugh, I just made a terrible mistake and ate an entire bag of harribo tangfastics
 
Functions and global state is all we need.

class('Foo', extends: ['Bar'], methods: [
'say' => [
'visibility' => 'public',
'body' => function(string $a): void {
echo $a;
}
]
]);

$instance = create_instance('Foo');
method($instance, 'say')('hello'); // hello
 
6:55 PM
Since the loop extension will be designed to be optional (since we can implement event loops with only core PHP), I'd hesitate to have library code depend on the keywords, but application code could choose to use the keywords.
@SaifEddinGmati Let's just make everything a list.
 
yeah, I think reasonable ... useful ...
 
yea the issue would be to get QA tools to support it, most of which use nikic/php-parser
 
@MarkR Too much sour, or sugar? (says he having a chocolate bar that's gone missing)
 
so even in a project, it would be hard to get it working, unless you don't use any CS/SA tools;
 
Good point, that's a big hurtle.
 
7:00 PM
@JoeWatkins no hard feelings, there are definitely reasons I can understand for not adding it. We discussed adding async / await and an event loop directly, but doing so would probably have been rejected or resulted in endless bike shedding.
 
I'm not sure it's so big of a hurdle
them all sharing php-parser is a good thing, and that can already support many versions of PHP, right?
so another keyword that's widely used shouldn't be a huge problem
 
@JoeWatkins yea, but not* extensions that add new keywords
 
@Trowski without php storm support its not going to happen
 
@SaifEddinGmati still it seems to have the machinery to optionally support keywords ...
 
7:02 PM
if people find that no tool supports it, they won't use it, and it will never be widely used;
 
@Trowski let's make everything a string... Oh sorry, that's Tcl, not PHP
 
I mean ... we can look at swoole and see that's not really true
 
@kelunik So again we come back around to practicality. Lot's of things possible, few of them actually make sense.
 
swoole doesn't add any keywords ...
 
no but there's no specialised tooling either
 
7:03 PM
i don't mean the extension wouldn't be widely used, i meant the keywords
 
(like there's no debugger)
 
people care more about CA/SA tools than debuggers, i use these tools daily when writing code, i use a debugger once every 4 months
 
I've never actually seen a swoole app, but given what we know about how it changes internal functions, it can't be very friendly to analysis, right ?
 
CA / SA?
 
they don't seem to care about that ...
 
7:06 PM
@MarkR coding standards/ static analysis
 
ah ty
 
@JoeWatkins it doesn't mess them up actually, most of them aren't IO bound, and swoole messes with IO stuff only
 
I use about 1% of swoole, but the portion I do use allows me to send my RPS through the roof (C based HTTP parser, fully shared state).
 
and you can have the option to disable it when running phpcs or psalm, as they don't really need it to be loaded
 
I mean I'm on the fence now also, I'm not sure about tooling, phpstorm in particular ... but another example that comes to mind was phalcon, I mean that had literally no tooling of any kind, but it was surprisingly widely used, for a short while ...
 
7:08 PM
because as any other extension; it doesn't add any new syntax
except for annotations, but these are just in the comments so php-parser can still parse it
 
erm ... it did have it's own syntax, not sure how much it was different from php, it was php-esque afaik ... that's the one that generated extensions from php code
 
zephir, that's it
sorry
 
Which they're dropping due to poor support and lack of interest.
 
that's another language in it's own, and they made a special plugin for it in phpstorm ( not an official one ), but yea, that doesn't have any tools afaik
 
7:11 PM
tangent, but what happened to discussions about an official php discord, did we end up making it?
 
but people didn't care that they couldn't debug or analyse it was all I was pointing out ...
 
how many people actually wrote extensions using zephir? except for phalcon?
 
@Trowski it's not nice, I found myself looking at it for some reason just when ng was happening ...
 
i think the reason they made it is to make it easier for people to contribute, and now it's dying,
phalcon is being rewritten in PHP
 
7:13 PM
Right, they wanted to make it simpler than understanding C to contribute, but then it just became something else to learn.
 
I don't really get that, so now it's just going to be another PHP framework ?
seems like they lost site of the reason for existence
 
@JoeWatkins yea, V4 is going to be written in PHP, because no one is contributing ... because it's in C ...
V5
 
@MarkR every once in a while, someone brings up discord, some people say "yeah" most remain silent, one time someone set it up, and everybody lost interest ... seems to be some sort of loop ...
 
@JoeWatkins Attempt #91 it is then \o/
 
3 hours ago, by Tiffany
the r11 discord is basically teresko's server now
 
7:18 PM
@MarkR A C based parser doesn't change too much I think.
 
@kelunik I take every cycle I can get when I'm trying to push through thousands of requests per second per core
 
does anyone know what swoole means ?
 
swoole team is also working on a new extension called "swow", maybe they are Chinese words? github.com/swow/swow
 
that seems likely ... but still I can't find out what this word means, and I don't like to use words if I don't know what they mean ...
 
maybe it's just ... a made up name?
 
7:23 PM
they've written the word in english in the chinese version of the docs ?
yeah maybe, I guess I'll have to go with that ...
traditionally though, words do mean stuff ...
 
🤷‍♂️
 
 
1 hour later…
8:30 PM
I'm working on amphp/injector again. An argument resolver can define interest in providing an argument via:
 - Parameter name
 - Parameter type
 - Parameter attribute
 - Callable attribute?
Anything else that comes to your mind?
 
@kelunik How would Callable attribute work? Define a class method/function string that returns the argument value?
 
@CharlesSprayberry No, a specific "argument resolver" would be enabled / disabled based on the attribute's precense on the callable itself rather than an attribute on the parameter. I'm not sure whether that's useful, yet.
 
@kelunik Before I started focusing on my async testing framework and I was working on my annotated injector project I had created UseService and UseScalar to define on a parameter.
I was going to also provide UseScalarFromParamStore(key)
 
Yes, I saw those. :)
 
A ParamStore interface would be created that you could use to actually get the value
I hadn't gotten to the exact details on that one before I had to pause the project for the testing framework stuff
I will wanna finish it at some point but I don't know when I'll swap back to it
 
8:41 PM
A generic UseScalarFromParamStore will be a bit verbose.
 
Yea...
I didn't like the verbosity either
I wasn't completely sold on the exact names
I was thinking that you could define a ParamStore to some "label" and then use it in the attribute like
UseScalarFromParamStore('!awsSsm(the/path/key)')
or .... UseScalarFromParamStore('!env(ENV_VAR)')
But I'm not sure about the idea tbh
Like, I said... hadn't gotten to actually implementing those details yet. Am excited you're working on the injector project again though!
 
Something I want to allow is e.g.:
#[Route('GET', '/api/users/{userId}')]
final class RegisterAction {
    public function __invoke(
        Request $request,
        #[RouteParam('userId')] $user
    ): string {
        return 'Hello world';
    }
}
 
hrmm....
 
#[Route('GET', '/api/users/{userId}')]
final class RegisterAction {
    public function __invoke(
        Request $request,
        #[RouteParam('userId')] #[MinLength(1)] int $user
    ): string {
        return 'Hello world';
    }
}
 
But the attribute #[RouteParam] is specific to HTTP stuff. You could do something like #[EnvParam] but it doesn't seem like it scales to retrieving parameters from different places well
 
8:46 PM
It quickly becomes unreadable.
 
yea...
#[Param('userId', RouteParamHandler::class)]
 
@CharlesSprayberry Right, that's why I want to introduce "argument resolvers" that can do that.
 
@kelunik Yea, basically what I just came to the conclusion of
 
@kelunik something I have strong feelings about but am too tired to be persuaive right now; you want to make the userId parameter be it's own type, so that it can be reasoned about and re-used across the application, rather than being defined inline.
 
Is calling __invoke a job for the injector here? Seems like something specific to that application, like a middleware that reads those attributes.
 
8:50 PM
 
@Danack userId here is pulled from the request router, so lower level here.
 
@Danack Yes, of course, imagine it's some random parameter, not necessarily an identifier.
 
@kelunik one thing that rdlowrey was against, and I never pushed for (due to not liking it that much) is being able to define what type gets instatiated depending on which class is requesting it. e.g. exactly which Logger gets created for differenent classes can vary. Useful for being able to route different types of log messages.
@Trowski That's why I dislike it. I think it's important for input parameters to be higher level things, so that they can be discussed easily with business/legal people separately from the concept of routing.
@kelunik I create types for all my parameters coming from the outside world.
 
@Danack It's something I will definitely build. I was annoyed by that already, because I wanted to auto-name my loggers.
 
mental note - ask @kelunik if he regrets that choice in 6 years.
 
8:54 PM
lol
 
@Danack Well, something has to take the string and convert it to the object.
@Danack That seems very reasonable. That has annoyed me as well. I think I defined a delegate to get around it.
 
@Trowski I defined something based on the $logger parameter name, it works, but it should use the type instead.
 
@Trowski yes, but that's fine (and I think best) as part of the input parameter type - which then gets used as: $eyeColourResolutionParams = EyeColourResolutionParams::createFromVarMap($varMap);
$varMap is just a dictionary interface to avoid depending on the request type directly.
but it means that if you ever want to re-use the input parameter type elsewhere in your app, you don't have to copy and paste info that probably needs to stay in sync.
 
@kelunik Yeah, should be the requesting type.
@Danack I think the problem here is conflating the injector (which definitely should be using an abstracted type around a user) and an invoker that maps request params to a middleware method that creates the abstracted user type.
 
@kelunik if you're taking requests, an ability to give a list of types and then have some code generated that has already had all the lookup done for what needs to be instatiated, to avoid needing it to be looked up at run-time would be nice.
 
9:09 PM
JIT "not supported" on 32-bit x86 -- build problem? ・ JIT ・ #81007
 
@Trowski "should be using an abstracted type around a user" - I wasn't saying that......the input parameter types are separate to any model types.
 
@Danack Yeah, it's something I plan. Not that important to me for performance reasons, as I'll mostly use it with amphp/http-server, but some caching will be required there, too, so these lookups aren't done for each request.
 
@Danack Yeah, I think you've lost me now.
 
> am too tired to be persuasive right now
/flees into the night.
 
same, night o/
 
9:19 PM
\o
 
@Danack I think I'm slow today. Now I realize you probably meant that #[UserId] should be defined that combines the other attributes.
 
10:03 PM
@Danack exit, pursued by a beer
 
or the beer exits, pursued by Danack?
 
personally it depends on which phase of my oscillating and difficult relationship with alcohol I am in yes
 
it a disturbingly large number of people and not discussed nearly enough :-P
 
we even have government agencies pushing us delicious alcohol products around here!
 
10:13 PM
the beverage industry has not suffered much from covid, despite the hospitality industry being decimated
 
it appears we are able to drink at home
I am very interested in seeing how things evolve
what changes will have happened in our lives if/when we get out of humanity's failure mode
 
yeh... I mean I cannot lecture anyone in any way but srsly I am a bit concerned by it, we work in a brewery last week and one of the managers was telling me they have struggled to meet demand like never before in the last year :-P
 
wow
that's like, both nice and concerning
 
that job is brilliant actually I will send pics when we do it properly, putting wifi in a 300yr old building through all the vats for some new monitoring stuff
 
wow that sounds very cool!
 
10:16 PM
lovely shiny copper vats and the place stinks of rancid barley
 
a brewery in a 300 years old building?!
 
not everyone's cup of tea :-P
 
that's like, supernice
haha
 
it was built as a brewery 300 years ago...
I live where the history comes from :-P
 
did you know that egyptians were brewing bears beer millenias ago?
that's right, bears
 
10:17 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I bearly believe you
 
Thanks! I'm here all week!
 
like I really really was so close to something several time but (slightly ironically) I am too drunk to bring it together
 
awww :P
well do hurry up and find it, the wait is unbearable
 
twitter is so annoying, the most asinine things I say are the things that garner the most interest
@FélixGagnon-Grenier it will come to but it's not happening, I'm not giving away the seed because I'm sure it has legs
 
10:23 PM
excellent
 
Please enjoy this Barenaked Ladies track as I guess a hold music? open.spotify.com/track/…
it's been stuck in my head for 10+ days by now
(don't let that put you off, I haven't minded it)
 
:P
I was about to say
 
it's hard not to feel cheerful if you are dancing rounding like a dickhead to music only you can hear
 
word
@DaveRandom huh, yeah, I can see how it can stick
 
"dancing rounding"
@FélixGagnon-Grenier inorite
whatever you do don't listen to richard cheese
 
10:29 PM
oh I know him
I love it
 
he is infectious and ridiculous and hard to explain to normal people when you accidentally sing a line out loud in public
 
hahahahaha yeah
I mean, doesn't he only do covers?
 
oh also I have re-discovered Ben Folds Five/Philosophy a couple of days ago
 
I was picturing singing the lyrics of some of the spiciest ones, but does he compose?
 
which I used to have a similar problem with when I was younger, when you sing "they were laughing at my helmet hat, laughing at my torch" which I once did on a packed tram when I stopped paying attention to when I was and suddenly realised like 25ppl were staring at me
bizarrely I also have actually crippling stage fright
I am fully exhibitionist, but only when no-one is paying attention
 
10:33 PM
that's like poster-boy for "dance like no one is watching you" :)
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier at least not under that name, I imagine he must have worked on some original material at some point? I also don't know and would be interested to
omg while we are on crappy muso chat, another excellent track I remembered recently that many people here will enjoy remembering I think: open.spotify.com/track/…
 
oh gods I clicked before even thinking what day it was, and I lived in great fear until it appeared it wasn't friday
 
worth noting that my most recent friday link was this
(which is worth posting/listening to on a not-friday)
very different vibe tho :-P
possibly relevant @FélixGagnon-Grenier? chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/11?m=51825623#51825623
(based on time passed and what I have been doing :-P)
 
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