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12:06 AM
Alpha Request Generator update: version 1.10.1.0 (GitHub) (install). Multiple improvements/fixes: re-enable request preview; adapt to SE HTML changes (post menu, CV dialog, etc.); activity warning to 6 months; rework data locking (improve use in multiple tabs); confirm open revisits; comment locked posts; just "no Roomba" is an error; etc.
19
 
@Makyen Woo Hoo Two!
 
@Makyen THX a lot!
 
np. Sorry for the delay. I'd left things a bit in the middle wrt. multiple changes, which resulted in considerable additional time to get even just the post-menu changes out.
 
12:48 AM
 
1:22 AM
@cigien How about stackoverflow.com/q/65676448/18157 ? It seems the user is posting a large number of broad "What is this" questions with answers, and other users are closing them as lacking focus. Do we want people to just write broad questions and self-answer them? I don't see plagiarism here, but I'm also not sure this adds any value to the site. All of this user's questions would normally merit "no research" downvotes.
The goal of SO is (as I have understood it) to accumulate answers that aren't otherwise easily available... not to duplicate existing resources. Or have things changed?
 
That's a canonical question, obviously designed for use as a duplicate target.
The charter of SO never said anything about answers "that aren't otherwise easily available".
 
Just got my annual chance to donate $100 to a shortlisted charity on behalf of Stack Overflow for being a mod on JSE. I super love this initiative. For anybody who doesn't know about it: stackoverflow.blog/search/giving+or+gives+back
3
 
@JimGarrison I'd rather not discuss multiple posts by the same user, but IIUC your general question is, "do we want more "how-to" or "what-is-this" style questions on SO?". In my opinion, the answer is yes. I personally find those questions extremely helpful. It's often easier for me to look up such questions on SO instead of opening a manual or a textbook, even though the answer is obviously available in there. These questions are in fact, some of the most widely used canonical targets on SO.
The fact that the answers to these questions might exist elsewhere, even in the same format as on SO, is not really relevant. I would like to see them added to SO's repository as well. I also don't think these questions are too broad. They might be simple, or lack research effort, but as you point out, those merit downvotes, and are not a reason to close the post.
Also, as you pointed out, some users are closing these for Lacks Focus, which is quite unfortunate. Apart from the fact that this is in direct violation of SO policy, I think it's a loss to the site to miss out on these questions. Of course, the users voting to close these questions are doing so with the best interest of SO in mind as well, and I respect that. I just disagree with that approach, as I believe it will have an overall negative impact, as I've stated multiple times.
As to the self-answering aspect, I think that's even better. We value good questions, and we value good answers, so if the same user happens to contribute both on the same post, I don't have any issue with that. In fact, I would actively encourage it, and hope that more users do the same thing.
 
1:53 AM
@cigien @JimGarrison personally, I think Q&A like that should be community wiki
3
 
@Makyen Thanks much! (Request Generator update)
 
2:31 AM
@Nick It's not clear to me why that is preferable. As far as I can tell, the only difference would be that the author of the Q&A would not get any reputation from doing so. I don't see why that would be a problem; after all, the user has put in some work to write that canonical, and even if they did so purely to gain reputation, I don't see the problem. Is there some reason to make it a CW that I'm missing?
 
2:43 AM
On JSE, we have a few self-answered questions where the OP very obviously copied directly from the manual and nothing more. This was clearly done to farm rep and as a consequence the poster received some snarky comments like ... [good job copy pasting content from the manual]. In the case of copy pasting content from the manual, I consider this practice to be unsavory. The expectation is that the Joomla manual should be the most uptodate resource and single source of truth.
 
@cigien Just personal preference. If you're going to write a Q&A that is largely a dump from release notes, I don't think you should gain rep. For example, see blogs.oracle.com/javamagazine/text-blocks-come-to-java which was written over a year earlier and contains very similar content. How does this Q&A add to what is in that blog post?
 
When the single source of truth is missing something, this is when I think Stack Exchange should be stepping in.
4
 
As @mickmackusa says, the supplier's documentation should always be the first point of reference.
The same can be applied to this question and this Oracle blog post
 
Stack Exchange should be used when the application of techniques from the manual go awry. We don't love redundant pages here, so why should we want differently for the internet.
 
3:31 AM
 
 
3 hours later…
6:33 AM
@Nick Community Wiki is not a rep-denial mechanism. It might have that effect, but that is not its purpose. Its purpose is to relinquish ownership of the post, to show that it is, in fact, something that is to be community-curated, rather than the primary work of a single person. Normally, edits must respect the author's intent, but that doesn't apply to CW posts.
 
I have a question: You can make a request as a reopen-pls of a post that had no recent activity except for one last activity that was made by the same user who made the request.
 
In many cases, CW is appropriate for canonical questions, if the original poster intends for them to be community-curated. However, it is not a requirement, if the OP plans to maintain the canonical Q&A themselves. In such cases, I would argue that they deserve any rep netted from the canonical: the upvotes prove others have found it useful, and it is therefore a valuable contribution to our knowledge base.
It is utterly inappropriate to plagiarize from other sources, but as long as proper attribution is provided, it's not plagiarism, and we regularly give reputation to people who can quote the documentation in a relevant context and explain it in such a way that it is useful to others.
@eyllanesc No, you cannot. That recent activity would count as your "involvement" with the post, which means that you cannot be the person to request action on it in here. See rule #15: socvr.org/faq#GEfM-no-requests-youre-involved
 
@CodyGray Then that should know @oguzismail since he requested a reopen-pls with the conditions that he indicated. Does the same not apply for @AmitJoshi 's recent requests?
 
@eyllanesc There is no recent activity requirement for reopen-pls requests. The only request type which has a requirement for recent activity is cv-pls.
 
@Makyen Ah, I was thinking intuitively that that should be the rule, but I couldn't find confirmation of it anywhere in the FAQ...
Rule #15 just says (emphasis added): "Do not request action on posts or edits where you are involved or where you have a conflict of interest"
 
6:40 AM
@CodyGray Recent activity is only mentioned in the cv-pls portion of #11.
 
@Makyen okay, so you can make a different request to the cv-pls that don't have a recent activity, am I correct?
 
@Makyen OK, so I'm confused. Is it legitimate to make a reopen request when you're involved by virtue of edits?
 
@eyllanesc If you're not making a cv-pls request, then you can ignore when the last activity was on the post.
 
As usual, I'm confused by the FAQ.
 
@Makyen Okay, thanks for the information
 
6:42 AM
np
 
@Makyen If I send a cv-pls in a room first and then try to send a cv-pls in another room then I get an alert that a request has already been sent. Is this by design or a bug?
 
@CodyGray Edits only count as "involvement" when you're making a request about that edit (i.e. you're not allowed to make a request about your own edit). If you edit a question to make it on-topic, you're welcome to post a reopen-pls request, as long as the following does not apply: "you are the author of the question or the author of any non-deleted, non-community-wiki answer on the question."
 
Wow, that... was not even close to my interpretation of the FAQ.
It's frustrating how often I am surprised.
I have much greater chances of success by just applying common sense, rather than even trying to look at the text on that page.
3
 
@CodyGray To a large extent, the rules are intended to be reasonable, so using common sense is often quite effective. There are some things where that's not, necessarily, the case. We're happy to take suggestions on how things could be reworded, but also keep in mind that people do rules-lawyer these as written, so a considerable amount of the convoluted portions have been built up as holes are filled when found.
 
As often as I see questions asked about them, and experienced users (including but certainly not limited to myself) misunderstand and misexplain them, the attempt to close all loopholes to stave off rules-lawyering might be shooting yourselves in the collective foot.
 
I should probably note one more thing about edits: You're not permitted to edit a post yourself in order to cause there to be "recent activity" on a question in order to make it eligible for a cv-pls request.
 
@TomerShetah No
 
@TomerShetah It's another NAE (needs an edit), I think, insomuch as there is an attempt to answer there (check what architecture you're passing to make). However... bringing my subject-matter expertise to bear, it's not relevant to the question (note that an architecture is explicitly passed to make). So, I'm going to just delete it. But that shouldn't be taken as endorsement that it should be NAA flagged.
 
Thanks :)
 
BTW @Tomer is that question caused by a typo?
You should set variable CROSS_COMPILE, not a CROSS-COMPILE.
 
6:55 AM
I'm also deleting that whole Q&A, because it's arisen due to a typo. The comment has the answer, but a comment cannot be an answer, and I cannot promote a comment to an answer.
 
You are right :)
 
There is also an answer, which is misleading and wrong.
@Yatin is reading my mind.
This is good :-)
 
@Yatin The Request Generator does not remember which room you sent the request to. It only remembers that you sent a request. So, it's as designed. If that could be improved by also remembering which rooms you've sent the request to is open for discussion. In general, I have not gotten any feedback that it's a desired feature. I have encountered it from time to time in testing, but it's been rare, at least for me.
 
I would say that is a desirable feature... Just as you should not cross-post questions to multiple SE sites, you should not cross-post requests to multiple rooms.
 
@Makyen Ok, I just wanted to know if you were aware of this. BTW thank you for updating the script so quickly 😃 it is a pain to send requests without it
 
6:58 AM
 
No
 
No
That one seems obviously an answer. It isn't even phrased as a rhetorical question.
 
@CodyGray That's my view of it too, but I'm willing to hear about an alternate use-case. :; Actually implementing it would depend on the use-case and balancing that against that it's generally better not to be spamming requests into multiple rooms on a regular basis.
 
I don't think there is a justifiable alternative use-case. In the exceedingly rare event that it would be justified to post a request in multiple rooms, it could/should just be done manually, with the extra effort required to do so also being a desirable feature.
 
@Yatin np. I'm glad I was able to get it done, at least for the alpha version, so far. It did take substantially longer to get done than I would have liked, but that was largely because I'd not followed through with getting other changes all the way to the point where they could be pushed into a new version (i.e. they were mostly there, but not all the way).
 
7:05 AM
Mmm, now I need Sam to fix his script(s)...
So many things could be done better, including not making superfluous changes to the DOM, announcing changes to the DOM in advance, and actually having a semantic DOM.
 
@CodyGray I, also, haven't come up with a use-case where it would be better to not have the warning. It's actually a bit easier to post an additional request of the same type for a post than having to do it manually. If the user has already set a request of that type for the post, then there's a warning in the request dialog and the user has to confirm sending with a standard confirm dialog which lists the reasons why it might not be a good idea.
 
(1) It's annoying. (2) People might not like it. (3) You will get complaints. (4) It's best if you don't do it.
Honestly, I'm of the opinion that it shouldn't be allowed at all.
 
:)
 
The only reason I am OK with such requests is that they are posted in a public forum, where people have a chance to disagree with them.
If you can double-dip in multiple rooms, that's super sketchy.
Pick the one where you think you have the best odds.
 
But ... POWER!
 
7:10 AM
@CodyGray I'm usually of the opinion that the script should allow the user to override most things, but to let them know that they are doing something for which there may be consequences.
 
I'd normally be OK with that, except the problem is just that it's too easy for such things to go undetected.
Meaning that there are effectively no consequences, because you'll almost certainly escape detection.
And the script is primarily used by power-users who can be expected to know that.
 
@CodyGray Which ones? Oh... I'd guess probably the one that adds extra mod functions to the post-menu. I think I looked at that one, but chose to use the version which provided a popup.
 
@Makyen Yup. I hate pop-ups. :-(
So that one was created at my request.
 
One use-case for overriding the warning about already posting: I occasionally screw up posting it the first time, delete my message in the grace period, and then re-send later. Rare, but I've done it a couple times. It works well with the current confirmation warning to make me double-check.
 
Ah.
That would not be reposting in a different room, though.
 
7:15 AM
True, but it's reposting in the same room, which seems even likelier to be sketchy.
 
@RyanM Yeah, that's been one of the use cases which the warning and override is intended to cover.
@CodyGray Yeah, it could end up being a problem. However, if the user is cross-posting requests a lot, then it will probably get noticed, eventually.
 
I guess it's too much to ask that the script track that the request has been self-deleted?
 
@CodyGray Yeah, I'm not thrilled with it, but there were too many things I wanted easy access to, which would have ballooned the post-menu beyond what I'd consider reasonable.
 
Oh, I hadn't noticed anything useful missing from the inline version. There's the menu of "contact" options, but to me, it's just as good to have those linked on the actual contact page. (I have a separate script that skips the horribly pointless step of having to pop out the dialog on that page.)
 
@CodyGray That's a possibility at some point in the future. The intent is that, eventually, the script will know if someone else has made a request for the same action on that post and warn you in a similar manner as it currently does for reposting your own request. While I've sort-of planned that functionality out, I have not actually implemented anything.
 
7:20 AM
Ah, yes. That'd be nifty, too.
But much harder to track than one's own actions, I'd imagine.
 
Yeah, it is, but it would require the same data (or a direct superset of the data) as determining if your own request message has been deleted.
 
@RyanM but that we will notice and tell you about (if not yell)
 
I'm going to yell.
I can't disappoint my fans.
 
true
 
@CodyGray: I see you edited question in this delete request to remove the duplicate link (which was embedded in body) and add proper dup-banner. But how will that make it a good signpost? If I am not wrong, signpost need good internet-friendly title.
 
7:28 AM
@AmitJoshi I fixed the duplicate-closure problem. I don't know whether it's a good signpost or not. I don't know how you know, either. But I don't have a strong argument either way (for keeping it or deleting it).
(Fun somewhat-related fact: I recently raised a flag on MSE to have that problem corrected with an old, dupe-closed question. In my flag message, I linked to the above-linked answer of mine, in order to provide context. That flag was declined with the whole "don't flag stuff unless mod intervention is required' message. That's especially ironic, since that was discussed in the comments beneath my answer. I guess the MSE mod disagrees with me about that being a mod-flaggable issue...)
Kinda makes one wonder what, exactly, does require mod intervention.
As a non-moderator user, I cannot fix that problem.
 
@CodyGray The question is near to 10 years old and have 176 views so far. So, internet is not directing users towards it. That makes me feel it is not a good signpost.
 
do autoredirs count toward views?
 
@CodyGray please raise your doubts about mod actions on the appropriate meta. I'll get the popcorn while the parrot picks you apart ...
 
@rene Ah, I don't have to do that. I can just flame her in the Teachers' Lounge. I think that's what it is for?
 
@CodyGray And remind them that you handle their flags on SO ;)
 
7:35 AM
@JeanneDark They don't raise flags on SO... I still think that all network mods should have mod privileges on MSE.
 
@CodyGray I'm not sure if that is what it is for. I had the impression it was used to do more off-putting things ...
 
My idea seems sufficiently off-putting.
I can be quite off-putting in a chat room. Maybe you wouldn't know.
 
I never noticed ...
 
@rene I was summoned? :D
 
@JohnDvorak Not sure but I found this on meta which says: "If the question isn't attracting lots of views, and isn't likely to start attracting lots of views in the future, then it's not a useful signpost, and should just be deleted."
 
7:49 AM
I tend to side with Makoto there. I prefer abstaining from deletion of duplicates unless they are causing some kind of harm.
I don't really see what the motivation is otherwise.
Even if they're not serving as useful signposts, the argument about view could equally go that they're not causing any problems since no one is seeing them.
 
@Tinkeringbell I hoped for a public TL experience but it needs two to Tango ;)
 
I can't even dance.
 
Cody is too tame in SOCVR ;)
 
I make a batch of popcorn, just in case ...
 
@CodyGray And I never got further than a waltz...
I guess that's the end of it already then :P
 
7:58 AM
I can definitely eat popcorn.
 
Eh, not before breakfast.
 
As breakfast?
 
Hmmm. Interesting thought.
 
It's just grits without the alkali bath.
Or, you can turn popcorn into polenta by grinding it.
 
I'll stick with tea and knäckebröd.
 
8:02 AM
Surely you have to put something on the knekkebrød...
 
cheese :D
 
Ah, perfect.
Brunost, ideally.
 
that's so Norwegian
 
Wha? Norwegians definitely eat brunost!
 
sorry, thanks for noticing the typo!
 
8:06 AM
Oh
Hmm
The rest of y'all Scandinavians don't know good cheese?
 
@CodyGray Mostly Gouda here.
 
Gouda, I can accept. But still not quite as good as smooth, buttery, nutty brown goat cheese.
Gouda is best with eggs.
Gouda in omelets and scrambles is bliss.
 
I'd have to try that sometime, but I can imagine it tastes good :)
 
Hum, I guess Jarlsberg is "too Norwegian", too.
 
@CodyGray it exists elsewhere of course, but Norwegians regard it as iconically Norwegian and it's much more popular over the whole country there
 
8:10 AM
It's not my fault they know what's good!
 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A4sterbotten_cheese would in some sense be purely Swedish but outside of Västerbotten it's just another regional cheese
omg they even have a category page en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Swedish_cheeses
 
I have never had that before. Haven't even seen it in stores.
But, a hard cheese doesn't sound ideal for knekkebrød
"Moose cheese" sounds interesting, too.
 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bondost is pretty soft, my kids call it "squeaking cheese" because there's this sound when you chew it
 
SO Cheese Varieties Reviewers
9
 
Oohh! Bondost is spiced with cumin and/or caraway seeds? Mmm.
Never had that, either, but that sounds intriguing.
Otherwise, could be kinda boring, as it sounds like just a mild cow's-milk cheese.
 
8:16 AM
yeah, it is, but really nice with jam as a (rather) healthy dessert
 
@JeanneDark The parrot started it. And cheese isn't even good for parrots!
 
@tripleee Bondost sounds pretty similar to young gouda cheese...
That can also have cumin, it's nice. Though I prefer "italian" herbs (whatever those are)
 
@tripleee I'm afraid that sounds far too healthy for me. Kahlua and ice cream is where it's at.
 
@CodyGray I wasn't the one that summoned me here. You know what happens when I'm around...
 
I don't. You aren't around enough!
 
8:19 AM
Which is probably a good thing :P
 
You need to raise more custom flags
 
I'll put a reminder in my calendar to raise one every week just to say hi to Cody ;)
 
Sounds like a plan!
 
You forgot to share your favorite cheeses, @JeanneDark!
 
8:28 AM
Nothing out of the ordinary
 
Oh? This is the first time you've admitted to being ordinary, average, or boring. How disappointing.
 
My taste in cheeses in not the most exciting thing about me ;)
 
I guess that's at least better than "I'm allergic to cheese".
Or, "cheese is disgusting; what's wrong with you animals?"
Although that'd be kind of interesting.
 
Cheese has so many calories, I have to watch my figure
 
@JeanneDark Round is a figure too ;)
 
8:32 AM
;)
 
do any animals actually eat cheese?
 
I wonder if @rene is enjoying their popcorn (maybe with cheese?)? ;)
 
@JohnDvorak My aunt has a dog that does, but that dog is weird in a 1000 other ways so...
 
@JohnDvorak Most animals will eat it... Very few will make it themselves.
 
@CodyGray I prefer mild cheeses. Yes, I do have a softer side, too!
 
9:10 AM
I never heard back from @RobertColumbia. Could anyone offer compelling reasons not to reopen this recently closed page? stackoverflow.com/q/53066929/2943403
 
@mickmackusa Not programming related
 
@mickmackusa lack of details, no repro, lack of debugging information
 
10:25 AM
 
10:44 AM
@tripleee okay, I accept that argument. I was originally coming from the perspective that a "programmer" encountered this issue (and future "programmers" would possibly benefit from this page) despite the solution not requiring any programming but a translating service. I felt the question did a fair job of representing the example (because a knowledgeable user was able to offer support). What should become of this page that has an UVed Q and UVed answer? Delete it? Leave ot closed?
@Dharman ^
 
Leave it unless you think it is harmful by staying visible
 
Should there be a comment to the OP to explain how to improve the question? If you feel the question is not about programming then logically it should be expelled.
 
Yeah, but it doesn't bother me much. I pick my battles
 
I think it is a good enough question that will spare some devs from hours of tooling with encoding settings. I'd like a pathway to reopening (by explaining in a comment) so that the OP can understand the closure and possibly improve the question.
 
is it spam if op is saying he will pay for solution? prediction of unknown item using assosiation rule based approach?
 
10:53 AM
@Ruli no, but it is not something we want to see in questions
 
@Ruli Please ask spam-related questions here: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/11540/charcoal-hq
 
@Yatin pesky timing, but probably refrain from making cosmetic edits to posts which are probably going to be closed and roomba'd anyway
 
Ok
I regretted it just one second after I applied it 😅
 
yeah, those things happen
 
@Yatin If you do it soon enough, you can spam or R/A flag, and then immediately retract your flag. Doing that will prevent your edit from putting the question in the reopen queue.
 
11:02 AM
:O
Is that a bug or a feature?
 
@Yatin Feature.
 
Oh cool
 
Edits by users who have voted to close or flagged the question (excluding custom moderator flags) do not push the question into the reopen queue. See: Shog9's answer to "Lots of questions in the reopen queue".
 
Ah that makes sense
 
11:28 AM
Anyone any idea why this was deleted, just curious? - stackoverflow.com/a/60439978/692942
 
@user692942 screenshot please
 
I still find jarring that I have to click twice to post on meta.
@user692942 If it's closed, that's the reason.
 
They linked to a now-deleted answer @Braiam
 
@Braiam I was just intrigued what made it close worthy, seems pretty comprehensive answer would not marking it as a community answer been a better shout?
 
@Yatin Ah well
 
11:35 AM
@Yatin Can't the answer is pretty long.
 
Might have been deleted by the author themselves
 
@user692942 In firefox, you could screenshot a entire element, even if it doesn't fit the viewport.
 
@Braiam don't use it, used greenshot for screenshotting for years.
 
@user692942 given it is deleted by SE staff and that staff member is Animuson I suspect it is deleted due to an DMCA take down request.
 
@rene Oh okay, makes sense.
 
11:40 AM
The account has been anonymised which doesn't happen often
 
The details of those requests are no longer public so we can't really tell.
 
AFAIK, DMCA taken down posts include a comment about the notice, this one does it?
 
@Dharman yeah noticed that, which made me think if it was an account issue just make it a community answer. Guess there's more to it.
 
@Braiam in the past they did. Not the case here. I assume policy changed on that.
 
> One key feature we want to add is a new lock reason for the question which better highlights that it was deleted due to DMCA and who sent the request, rather than having an unnoticeable comment that's sometimes hidden --- meta.stackexchange.com/a/317712/213575
The latest post about DMCA's ^
 
11:53 AM
@CodyGray Fair comment about CW; I guess we'll have to see whether OP maintains the Q&A. In terms of those specific questions, I'm still not convinced they need to exist on SO as I had no problem finding the blog posts from Oracle itself and they have just as much info in them.
 
Yay UserScript works again! Thank you!
 
12:12 PM
You discovered a new close reason? ;)
 
I'm as surprised as you are ;)
 
@Makyen Now thats what I call service. I pop in here to see if anyone else is missing the CV Request Generator, and the first message I see says Yay USerScript works again. Quick update and away we go. Didnt even have to ask a question :)
 
1:54 PM
Such a productive day here: 37 warnings, fixed 5 warnings, now I have 97 warnings.
10
 
Can't you just suppress warnings? ;)
 
@java.lang.SuppressWarnings("everyThingzzzz")
 
You can't suppress warnings when you have a prime number of them.
 
Just fix 1 more so 3 new appear
 
@JeanneDark yes, well ... it is in Schema's and I need that to work if I don't want to end-up with trial-and-error with no IDE support.
I might have been done by now if I just did trial-and-error ....
 
2:42 PM
 
"Stack Overflow users are busy people with limited time and attention." (Content principles), Context: "No Candidate Search results" Don't: “0 results.” Do: “No candidates matched your search. Try different keywords or adjust your filters.” (Voice and tone - Negative)
 
flagged the StackOverflow.design as rude ....
 
3:08 PM
Be ready to get 1 more declined flagged.
 
@JeanneDark Yikes, some lowest common denominator junk there
 
3:34 PM
Anyone here use the entity frame work in c#? I have a question about this stackoverflow.com/questions/30094755/…, The upvoted accepted answer does a select, load all data and then an update, the answer at 0 just do an update am I missing something about the entity framework?
In java spring I would just do an update.. seem so strange to load data first...
 
The accepted one used the object model as suggested by documentation while the second one is using raw SQL to perform the update.
 
Yeah but object mode must be much slower...
If you need to set a column by id, in SQL you issue an update... you don't do first select, the load the data to application and then an update...
 
that is how EF was designed.
 
I must be missing something because that just seems crazy
 
:)
 
3:39 PM
so the answer at 0 is the best one then...
 
There are different camps on that.
 
basically you should not use the framework to update records :)
 
depends on the complexity of the updates needed
 
It's an update of 1 or multiple columns by id...
in basic sql that is a prepared statement with values and id
in java spring it's very similar but you can pass directly the object with correct id set (you may need to do a trick on key if you want to use the save method)
 
Well I guess that is why Dapper is so popular.
 
3:42 PM
For me it's just plain crazy to load everything and then update everything.
 
Agreed. I live in both worlds. (Java / .Net) I use what works for the task at hand.
 
It's first time that I need access DB from C#, normally I do only dll in C#.. comming from java I went lets find a framework to handle it... I guessed I missed Dapper..
 
@PetterFriberg Dapper saw the same issues you described and came up with their own approach
 
How the heck can Microsoft come up with something similar... I still feel we are missing something....
 
Does anyone know a good duplicate target for this? I've been googling for ten minutes and nothing appropriate showed up yet, damn
 
3:47 PM
@PetterFriberg The first step in accessing a DB from C# is to not use EF :-)
 
@Nkosi Really? Never heard of it.
 
lol to late
@TylerH however it was really nice when it created all objects from database
baah upvoting the 0 answer, since that's the correct one :)
@oguzismail I know nothing about bash and python but this is how I would google it google.com/…
 
@Braiam Me neither, until a few months ago. I was annoyed at some weird EF Core Bug, then happened to read some random Nick Craver tweets about Dapper and decided to test it out...have been using it since then :D
 
hmm but this maybe solves the problem stackoverflow.com/a/29867701/5292302
 
4:06 PM
@PetterFriberg it's not C# but sqlalchemy.org/features.html is very, very nice :p
 
@TylerH Had to change the top answer because it was incorrect. Thanks
 
@PetterFriberg Yeah, I should have thought about that, thanks
 
@oguzismail That's an invalid edit; it changes the meaning of the answer completely. At the very least you should leave a comment saying you think & is wrong and should be ; instead.
 
Ok found it, according to me this is what you should use, if you have not object loaded
 using (JddLPRSDB db = new JddLPRSDB())
        {
            CameraEvent ce = new CameraEvent
            {
                id = 10380,
                plate_no = "AS001AB"
            };
            db.CameraEvents.Attach(ce);
            var entry = db.Entry(ce);
            entry.Property(e => e.plate_no).IsModified = true;
            db.SaveChanges();
        }
 
4:10 PM
Also I kinda doubt 15 people would have upvoted the answer (and OP accept it) if it were so completely wrong.
 
not perfect but yeah that issue a single update only on the field's...
 
@TylerH Remember, not because "it works" means that "it's right"
I remember someone saying that some code would silently corrupt data elsewhere.
 
@Braiam this sentence isn't grammatically correct so I'm having trouble understanding what it is you're saying
I do agree that an upvote doesn't indicate an answer is "correct"
but I think the higher the score the less likely it is for something to just be out and out wrong, at least when it was posted (stuff does become wrong over time as things change or new features come out, get deprecated, etc)
 
@TylerH That's the problem: you are using score to measure something like correctness.
 
Have you noticed that the bar with "Share Edit Follow Close Flag" now have capital letters?
 
4:24 PM
Score doesn't even mean that. Heck, I've had +20 answers that are flat out wrong.
 
I don't like it but it really is a luxury problem :D
 
@TylerH In this case it's not. OP doesn't ask how do I run multiple commands asynchronously?
 
@JonClements yeah seems nice, but but it's only in Python :(... actually now that I solved this problem about issuing a object oriented update.. Entity Framework is not bad... it's really nice to create all your objects from db, it's code orientated query and seems to manage the connection fairly well (pool)
 
@Braiam I'm not, I'm using score to measure what people voted on; they didn't vote on an answer that said use ;
they voted on an answer that said use &
 
@PetterFriberg yup... just saying though :p
 
4:32 PM
If the post author wants to change that to be something completely different... OK. But if someone else thinks it should be different, that's when you comment.
 
@TylerH They probably didn't even know what it did. How about I rollback, and edit again to include the original code too with a brief explanation how they differ?
 
@JonClements java has nice framework also Spring JPA, it's a bit complicated in the beginning to setup and understand key structure + most of all to remember how you should write the method name :), but basically it execute and return result only by writing the name of a method (interface method).. with many features as Paging and Sorting that can be passed as params.
For example
@EntityGraph(attributePaths = "authorities")
@Cacheable(cacheNames = USERS_BY_ID_CACHE)
Optional<User> findOneWithAuthoritiesById(String id);
It will automatically find a user and load relational data (auths) from other table, then attach a cache so it does not need to re-query...
 
food time - bbiab
 
buon appetito
 
@TylerH And they also upvoted my wrong answer :D
People don't know what they vote for.
 
4:44 PM
Disable upvoting ;)
 
I think we need to do some upvote research. Really understand why people are just like upvoting all the time...
 
@Braiam maybe you just don't know what they vote for :-)
I have upvoted answers before because, while not the best answer and sometimes even outright wrong, they are helpful to me for some reason.
 
@Braiam exactly. @TylerH I take silence as Yes, you should do that
 
fundamentally changing someone else's answer is saying not only "I am re-attributing your upvote reason based on what I think you should be upvoting for" but also "I am replacing your solution with a different one because I think you are wrong". In both cases I think that's not an appropriate action, unless there's some case where the post does need to be edited/redacted to avoid harm/breach of sensitive info.
@oguzismail What do you mean silence?
 
You didn't respond
to my message
 
4:52 PM
@oguzismail Sorry, I must have missed it in the pings. Which message?
 
Sometimes it's more appropriate to simply write a new answer
 
@oguzismail I already rolled back; I don't think it's appropriate to do anything other than comment (or go ahead and provide your own answer) explaining why you think & is wrong and should be ; instead.
 
@JeanneDark But not practical at all. Average programmer will copy paste the code from the top answer and move on.
 
4:58 PM
@oguzismail You should trust that if your answer is right and another is wrong, then over time your answer will get moved higher than the wrong one
 
@oguzismail The help center article I linked to above is pretty clear
 
@TylerH I'll edit later then. It's not that I think it's wrong. It's wrong, and should be amended
 
@oguzismail Probably in this case it's better that you add an answer, then you add a comment on the upvoted answer saying "for non async see this" or something similar
 
@oguzismail Regardless of whether you think it's wrong or you're right or whatever, the appropriate response is to comment and/or answer, not change someone else's. You can also always downvote incorrect answers, too, to help the problem you mentioned already (average programmers copying from top answers and moving on)
 
That way user may choose... and also understand the difference, if they are diligent..
 
5:02 PM
@PetterFriberg And that comment will disappear with one NLN flag :D
 
The most frequent jasper-reports question have a totally wrong answer... but what could I do other then adding correct answer and leaving a comment... Then if people like to try the wrong answer let it be so... TO be honest slowly my answer is arriving up.
@oguzismail Not if it is constructive
Explain that the answer executes in asynch and link your answer..
I even do the same with deprecated code (even if Braiam probably don't agree :). I post an answer with latest version of code and let the other answer remain. To me it seems most logical like that since maybe a future user have a deprecated version.
 
For suggested edits there's even a specific reject reason: "Clearly conflicts with the author's intent"
 
5:20 PM
Can someone explain why this was reopened? stackoverflow.com/posts/65688226/revisions
 
It's gone
 
Looks like a mod just deleted it, so I guess that the point is moot now.
 
5:36 PM
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica that is the second time I look at that Q/A. Is that a coincidence?
 
5:49 PM
@TylerH "they are helpful to me for some reason." ah, so finally we reach that point where you recognize that people could "have upvoted the answer (and OP accept it) [even] if it [is] completely wrong"
Which is my entire argument. Wrong answers get upvoted all the time, and score isn't a proxy of correctness
 
the tag is proof of that
4
this is my first time making an edit like this, is it good? stackoverflow.com/a/65683353/12708583
 
@10Repsaysgetvaccinated looks fine to me
 
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