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10:07 AM
Heh - a user with 1 reputation point editing a post from a user with 1,000,000. Here.
 
@AdrianMole And a good edit, too!
 
I like the comment the editor left
 
Absolutely! At first I was starting to think: "Cheeky wee upstart." But it is a good edit.
Cheered me up, already!
 
Cheeky always cheers me up
 
10:22 AM
 
10:47 AM
@JeanneDark I flagged as abusive
 
@Vega Didn't think of that, but I agree
 
10:58 AM
@MrUpsidown Too old... still voted
 
11:14 AM
@MrUpsidown oddly enough that one will roomba tomorrow (unless your edit did reset the timer).
 
@rene ok I removed it from a totally inappropriate tag...
 
@Lankymart Am I correct in assuming that due to the conversation on this one, the request isn't valid? Should it be binned?
 
@Scratte removed for now
 
11:34 AM
@Scratte think that's up to individuals to decide, for me it's still close worthy but probably not that reason as the tags have been edited.
 
12:12 PM
Can somebody (an RO, preferably) remind me what the "dos and don'ts" are about discussing in here close/reopen wars we come across? Is it completely no-go?
... for example, can I solicit opinions about a possible lock request?
 
12:27 PM
@AdrianMole if it already is re-open/close war and we or you are involved then better leave it to meta or a mod, if it is abusive.
 
I'm only involved because I came across it in the CV review queue; I can seen no other regular in here that's involved in it in terms of an answer, or anywhere on the timeline. It's been closed and reopened once each and now in the CV queue again.
... no abusive stuff going on, that I can see.
 
Close wars would fizzle themselves out, since ammunition is not limitless.
 
Unless it's mods battling it out ;)
 
I presume they would discuss it out rather than bringing the big guns.
 
Can anyone make sense of this answer?
 
12:31 PM
Although, if the users want a result and the mod is opposing it, then I would see how asymmetric those battles would be.
 
I'm not a big fan of putting this room in the front line in that type of disputes. Either raise a mod flag for a lock or ask on Meta to get wide consensus on the preferred question state
 
I definitely wouldn't want a lock, just stay clear of any of that and wait it out.
 
@rene Can I 'risk' a link or would that bother you?
 
@AdrianMole Is there something to gain of having anyone else involved? No, then no.
 
for this time only I'm with @Braiam
 
12:35 PM
I will put away my popcorn then
 
@Yatin what to do with questions like this one. The error in a lot of these is that OP named their file with the same name as an existing inbuild/installed library
 
OK, I'll just leave my vote in the queue and let the matter go by (it's not a tag I follow).
 
I repeat, the only reason why wars are extended is because you bring more ammunition. In this case ammunition are close votes and since the one user=one vote, then bringing users is just going to bring more ammunition.
Just wait it out. The war would end if no one has more ammunition.
 
@JeanneDark don't put it too far away ....
 
I understand; it's just the first time I've really seen such a thing. High upvotes, a number of high-scored answers, high view-count, etc., etc.
 
12:37 PM
@AdrianMole Nah, it's just another day on SO.
 
But I'm just a naïve teenager.
 
I'm more suspect of the bikeshed effect due those characteristics.
The greatest answers on the site aren't the most upvoted.
 
I guess if a mod should happen upon this conversation, they could easily find out which post I'm talking about, with the probing tools at their disposal. I've left enough clues, already.
... not worth a flag, I think.
And Shog9 agrees with Braiam: Let 'em burn out!
 
@AdrianMole Actually, both agree with Jeff
 
Jeff who? xD
 
12:46 PM
A few hours ago, in LA, I came across a plagiarized answer. They had just copied the code from another answer, not even formatting it. I custom flagged it (still pending). And now I observe more and more people interact with it. First someone edited it to format the code, then the FP reviewer left a comment about code-only answers, now another user asked why that new answer was better than the existing ones. Kind of strange to witness.
 
@JeanneDark Sometimes the code-formatting can be helpful, making it easier to see that it's a copy of the other post.
 
@AdrianMole It helps indeed. But the post has 7 answers
 
@JeanneDark you got me there for a moment. I assumed you were in Los Angeles ....
 
@rene :) A lot of people think I refer to Los Angeles
 
Awesome, lets not tell anyone and have some fun with it ;)
 
12:56 PM
I thought it was a common acronym
 
It is - for Los Angeles.
 
So @JeanneDark tell me, how has it been in LA?
 
@rene According to Cody, the strip-searches are a nuisance.
4
 
@rene A lot of cleaning up to do
 
:D
 
12:58 PM
Morning
 
@AdrianMole I think it really depends why. I do not think an autoflag is raised on such. Bringing it to meta is the worst solution, unless you want it deleted too. I expect it's a battle of value versus low effort.
@JeanneDark You didn't leave a comment?
 
@Scratte No, I just raised a flag
 
@JeanneDark Leaving a comment on such will in a lot of cases stop other users from wasting their time interacting with it. Especially if you link to the other Answer in the comment.
 
But good that you're asking! People already suspect that we are the same person. But here's a clear difference: You leave a comment and don't flag, I flag and don't leave a comment.
 
@Scratte No question of lack-of-effort. It was closed as "Too broad" a while ago, then reopened. And now, it's just completed the CV review: 3-1 to leave open. So I'm happy and will leave it be.
 
1:06 PM
@JeanneDark It's not allowed for socks to vote on the same posts, I expect commenting and flagging is the same. No two comments, no two flags. So I don't know how that doesn't further suspicions ;)
@AdrianMole Wonderful :) I like a happy ending :)
 
@Scratte But we don't comment on / flag the same posts
 
Here's a quote from John Lennon that may be a clue: A surprise for you all: The Walrus was Paul.
 
@JeanneDark We call it split personality :D
 
Is it okay to tell OP in an answer to use VScode instead when they clearly mentioned that they are using IntelliJ?
 
@Yatin Depends. If it's "You cannot do that in IntelliJ, but VScode has that option" then why not?
And by the look of the other Answer.. that's probably what they're trying to say
 
1:12 PM
Isn't it better as a comment then?
 
@AdrianMole Not so well-versed in Beatles history. What walrus? Did it sink the yellow submarine?
 
@Yatin Why? If it's an actual alternative? The answer is still "No, it's not possible, but.." which is normally a perfectly valid Answer.
 
Something to do with tags eggs.
 
@Scratte Ok, thanks :)
 
@Yatin IMHO in its current form it hardly qualifies as an answer. It would need to be fleshed out by explaining that it doesn't work in Intellij but in VS Code. All it does is link to VS Code and say it's free. Not sure a flag would be marked helpful, though.
 
1:15 PM
I'm not going to imply that it's a high quality Answer though. I've made my comment on it.
What JeanneDark said.. it's kind of just a link to software. But I wouldn't raise a flag on it, since you can take away the link and there's still something left.
 
@Scratte It is very simple to do in vscode btw... just open the file with it.. that is it
 
@Yatin So.. you can edit it? :)
 
@Scratte I am thinking I will suggest an edit... and add that detail in. But I face my biggest enemy again :p
nvm I am in! :)
 
@Yatin Just another 220 reputation points? :) If it was allowed I'd give you those.
 
Yep
Please help me edit this and this.
 
1:43 PM
@Yatin it is edited already. Any extra help needed?
 
@rene Naaa . I just edit. I see same post on sobotics. If you do better go ahead :)
 
@Shree yeah, I saw. I couldn't see what else was needed. I'm moving on.
 
2:08 PM
@rene To clarify, if a close/reopen war is not abusive, and doesn't involve members of this room, it can be brought up for discussion here?
@desertnaut Wouldn't that be an off-topic ML question even with details?
 
@cigien indeed
@cigien I'll post a comment, thanks
 
ahh, the smell of receiving revenge downvotes from people too scared to downvote anything other than questions in the morning...
 
@desertnaut Thanks, I'll use that as a close reason. No point in confusing the OP into thinking that adding details would help.
 
@cigien you are absolutely right, I should have done this myself in the first place
 
2:13 PM
@desertnaut No worries. You can dump your comment now. Hopefully next close voter will use the right reason.
 
@cigien I'll leave the comment just because it provides a relevant link (hey, there have been requests here that I integrate the sentence in my custom close reason ;)
 
@desertnaut Oh, good point. Yeah, the link is useful.
Crap, it got closed as Needs Details.
 
@cigien nevermind, the comments are still there to indicate that there is something else going wrong; as I said, it's my bad...
 
And there's still the help center with articles about what's on- and off-topic.
 
2:19 PM
@desertnaut Not atll :) BTW, why do you have multiple different close reasons for off-topic ML questions?
 
I have one, actually
 
@JeanneDark Well, if they read that, they wouldn't post the question in the first place :p
 
sometimes I keep only one of the "theory/methodology", depending on the question
 
Oh, sorry, I thought the custom close reason list showed more than one of your close reasons saying the same thing. I must be misremembering.
 
@cigien ^^ here is a variant ;)
 
2:24 PM
Exactly, what's the difference between that, and your last close reason?
I see an additional link for the help-center, but otherwise it seems to say the same thing.
 
2:38 PM
Seeking adivce: how should we (if we should) close questions like "Is there a way to ... " for example: stackoverflow.com/questions/64461133/…
 
@Georgy if it's a duplicate of a deleted question then logically it should probably be reopened, not deleted
duplicate closure is only useful if the target it points to is not deleted
 
@TylerH It was a mod who closed it as a duplicate. I chose the needs debugging details reason.
 
I thought the targets could not be deleted before duplicates
 
@Georgy Since it wasn't answered and has a negative score, Roomba would take care of it (posts closed as duplicates just take a bit longer than closed posts)
 
@JeanneDark Somebody added a downvote just now.
 
2:54 PM
@Vega the community user is not subject to such plebeian rules.
7
at any rate I think this question is of quite little value so I agree with deletion, personally
@Vega MSE question on that subject - meta.stackexchange.com/questions/248259/…
 
3:10 PM
@TylerH Thank you :)
 
3:37 PM
@MrUpsidown There are no rules about "Is there a way to.." It's the same as "How to..". It depends on the post. Some of them are very useful. Some of them are a little too broad. I do not know the technology of this one, but it looks like a normal HowTo to me. I cannot say if it's not narrow enough to be answerable.
 
@Scratte ok thanks - to me it's too broad, definitely, but that's IMO
 
@cigien the consensus on Meta and a former CM seems to be that we better move on so I would prefer that. If you want a strict rule or something that is in the FAQ then I have to disappoint you, as there isn't one. All I have is my gut feeling and that tells me we better stay out of it. But I don't think my gut count. So if you make it work so it doesn't escalate in any way then I'm open for a one time experiment.
 
@rene I agree; any close/reopen war should be taken to Meta or mods, not here.
 
Oh, and you have to do it when @TylerH is not around ...
 
3:52 PM
@rene I realize my usual style has been to adhere to the FAQ strictly, and so I understand your response. But no, I've very recently realized that doing that is not particularly fruitful, so I'm not asking for a FAQ rule on this, just your opinion as an old-timer. Ok, seems better to err on the side of letting it be discussed on meta then. I don't have a concrete example at the moment anyway. Thanks for the clarification.
@rene TylerH is not a fan of contentious discussions huh?
 
@cigien I have no problem with contentious discussions :-)
 
@cigien The RO team is diverse for a reason. I don't win all debates in the backroom
 
@TylerH Good. Life would be boring without those ;)
@rene Of course, I understand. Very good thing too IMO :) Hmm not that you don't win all debates, but that the RO team is diverse ;)
 
@Yatin Just FYI, a question getting rude/abusive answers is not a reason to close the question. It's a reason to flag those answers (separately).
Please keep that in mind when listing close reasons in requests :-)
 
3:56 PM
@TylerH Yes I am aware of that. The question was closeable so I figured I should send a cv-pls to stop them.
 
@MrUpsidown Reading the comments, it looks like it can be answered with "No, there's no such option at present" :)
@rene But, what about ruled by rene?
 
urban myth
 
4:13 PM
What should I do when a user makes a completely superfluous edit to a question? They posted an answer, so I assume they're chasing a badge. Do I just ignore it?
 
@cigien What kind of edit?
 
@cigien If it made the post worse, rollback, otherwise just ignore, maybe mod-flag if they do it frequently
 
Is it ok if I share the link, so we're talking about the same thing? I'm worried this might fall under user moderation.
 
you're asking about a specific edit not a user no?
 
4:19 PM
grumble grumble despite knowing which I'd prefer I reject any edit which only seeks to resolve those "typos"
 
@Nick Hmm, good point. I'm annoyed with the user, even though I'm technically asking about a specific edit. Ok, I'll just roll-back and handle it myself. Thanks.
@JeanneDark Adding blockquotes around the error message. That's all they did. Useless edit, and in fact makes it look worse IMO.
@Nick To clarify, they don't need other users to approve edits. I would definitely reject a suggested edit that made just this change.
 
Oh I understand that, I was responding to Jeanne
(has pending transcription edit)
Bah, got more close votes between me typing that and going to VtC
 
@Nick That edit should be approved, right? It adds an MCVE, and makes the post on-topic I think.
 
@cigien I had a look at it and I agree with you. At least the way they did it, it didn't improve the post. But sometimes it can be useful because then you don't need to scroll to see the long error message (if it's no longer formatted as code)
 
Not really my place to say in here, I shouldn't influence your reviewing :p
Although now the review has finished: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/375127/…
 
4:28 PM
@Nick Hmm, opinions seem to vary. I approved the edit, seems useful to me.
 
To each their own /shrug
 
@Nick What do you mean? You can voice your opinion :)
@JeanneDark Thanks, that makes sense. How did you find out what post I was talking about?
 
@cigien It showed in your profile that you rolled back an edit
 
@cigien Because if I say it should be rejected because X before the review is finished, that's the equivalent of me saying reject-pls, which IIRC, is bad :p
 
@JeanneDark Ah. Moderating users, I see ;)
 
4:32 PM
No, just curious ;)
 
@Nick Hmm, that doesn't sound right at all. A formal request is quite different from an opinion, I think.
 
Ooh, cigien's got something to hide, might have a profile peek myself ;-)
 
Oh no :( [scrambles, deletes account]
 
:=p
 
@cigien The error in a code block versus error in a quote is a tricky one. I do not like errors in quotes at all, especailly not a Stack Trace. I like to scan the beginning of each line for the one I'm interested in. Having to filter out wrapped lines is a real pain, and I generally just pass on those posts, because I feel my time isn't worth having to filter someone's bad formatting.
2
 
4:38 PM
^+1
 
@Scratte Ahhhh, but what if it's a code block in a quote
 
@Nick I have no issues with that :) But it doesn't give the argument that "it saves me having to horizontally scroll" any justice :)
 
error messages are messages and belong in quotes; if the message contains code that code should be formatted appropriately :-)
 
Obviously I do not agree at all with that. And.. I believe there's a meta saying otherwise as well :)
 
Gimme teh popcorn!
 
4:43 PM
Hold off on the popping. I'm expecting a call, so I'll be unable to go in the ring ;)
 
@Scratte sure, people are wrong on Meta all the time
 
@dippas I don't understand how that's opinion based. Isn't it just asking for the differences?
 
@Scratte Differences between what? Without specific code, I'd say it's opinion based.
 
@Scratte We can't really objectively respond without at least either what OP considers a meaningful disadvantage or OP's code.
they list 'more CSS to write' as a disadvantage to one, but it's simply a tradeoff between more CSS to write or more JS to write depending on which method you use. Are those disadvantages? Not really... they're inherent in the method you choose.
 
@JeanneDark here
{\___/}
( • - •)
/ >🍿
 
4:51 PM
@Yatin Thank you
 
:p
 
Is this a dupe of this? Or is that an RTFM target?
 
@TylerH Ok. Thanks :) cc @cigien
@cigien How come there is no out for a "No" when at "Insert/Erase at Front"? :)
Ohh.. there is.. but it goes the way it same in. How very confusing. That's not how a flowchart is suppose to work..
In any case it does look like a reasonable duplicate, in my opinion.
 
5:27 PM
@Scratte Wait, what are you talking about? The "no" arrow clearly goes to "need to find the nth element". What's confusing about that?
 
5:38 PM
 
@KenWhite Note that lack of effort is not relevant to the close reason.
 
@cigien It is according to the [help/on-topic]. It specifically says that homework questions must show the effort made to solve it.
 
5:59 PM
@cigien Other Answer. The colourful one :)
 
6:14 PM
"I need complete code of..." "your contribution will be considers a huge contribution. thanks in advance."
 
@JeanneDark Thanks. I'm finding it difficult to match up the advice on how to handle HW questions, with concrete close reasons. I might make a meta about this. cc @KenWhite
 
dbc
@cigien Usually I'll close as "Too Broad" and drop a comment such as...
People can and do ask for homework help here, however this looks off-topic for stack overflow because: 3. Questions asking for homework help must include a summary of the work you've done so far to solve the problem, and a description of the difficulty you are having solving it. Please [edit] the question add this. Please, also read this Open letter to students with homework problems.
 
@cigien Close-worthy are pure requirement dumps whether they are actual homework or some other kind of assignment. They can be flagged as "more focus" or "details or clarity". When I cv-request them here, I'll add "(homework)" to make clear it's a "bad" homework question and keep it short.
 
@JeanneDark Sure, but pure requirement dumps are on-topic, so long as they don't need more focus, or details. Why does admitting that it was set as Homework change it's on-topic-ness?
@Scratte Oh, I see what you mean. The "no" arrow does go to "Persistent positions", but the merging of the 2 no arrows makes that a bit confusing.
 
dbc
@cigien There's a specific line item in stackoverflow.com/help/on-topic restricting when homework questions are on topic: 3. Questions asking for homework help must include a summary of the work you've done so far to solve the problem, and a description of the difficulty you are having solving it.
 
6:24 PM
@cigien What types of questions should I avoid asking?: "You should only ask practical, answerable questions based on actual problems that you face."
For sure, when you do your homework and come across a programming problem, you can ask here (if it also meets the other requirements). A good homework question is not recognizable as one.
 
@dbc Yes, but that's my question. Can an on-topic question become off-topic simply because it was set as Homework? If so, why?
 
@cigien I prefer evaluating it as if I'm ignoring the context of the question. Remove the part where it says that is hw, it's still a acceptable question?
 
Ok, I think I know what I want to ask on meta. I'll share a link here when I write it up. Thanks for the help everyone.
 
dbc
@cigien Hypothetically yes, because the site rules state that homework questions must include a summary of the work you've done so far to solve the problem, and a description of the difficulty you are having solving it even if [the question] fits into one of the categories listed above
 
@Braiam Yes, that makes the most sense to me. In which case, stating "Homework dump" in a close reason is completely irrelevant.
 
6:29 PM
@cigien No, it doesn't matter where you came across your programming problem. But if you merely copy-pasting the homework your prof gave you, it needs more focus and details or clarity.
 
dbc
But in reality homework dumps are very obvious as such. Usually it's a copy/paste of some assignment (or even worse, a screen shot image of an assignment) with either several sequential requirements or a requirement to prove or justify something.
 
@JeanneDark Ok, IIUC you're saying that whether it's a HW question or not is orthogonal to whether it should be closed. Then why should it ever be mentioned in a close reason?
 
@cigien It denotes a specific type of question
 
dbc
I.e. usually one can tell it's homework because it's too broad in certain characteristic ways.
The reason it might be mentioned in a close reason is that Stack Overflow does allow people to ask for homework help, as long as the question includes a summary of the work done so far + a description of the difficulty in solving it. Just closing as "too broad" with no further guidance may turn off students who have barely begun to learn how to be a professional and ask professional questions of other professionals.
 
Ok, I don't mean to cut off the conversation, but I suspect we might be going around in circles re the HW topic. Apologies if I'm being obtuse about this. Anyway, I think meta might be a better place to discuss this at this point.
 
6:38 PM
@cigien Example
 
@JeanneDark That mean we can close most of Stack :) All the "What's the difference between Questions" for one. The "problems that you face" seems to not be a requirement. And a homework assignment is a problem someone is facing :D
 
6:49 PM
@cigien I think this has already been discussed on meta though. Several links have been pasted here. Though I agree that if one can just edit out "This is for school" and find a perfectly valid Question, then it should not be closed. But this, I expect, is very rare. They're mostly not very focused on one problem.
 
@Scratte Most of the so-called homework questions don't include that info anyway, they're just the copy-pasted assignment (sometimes even a photo of a sheet of paper). Once I saw a mother posting her daughter's homework. But I agree with you. If you do your homework and come across a programming problem, it might be a fine question, no doubt.
 
@Scratte That wouldn't surprise me in the least, though none of the shared links actually answers my specific question. I absolutely agree that this would be a rare thing, i.e. a HW dump that is on-topic. That is, in fact, the primary reason I don't want to prolong the discussion here: the benefits of resolving this are not sufficient to justify the time members would need to spend on it. OTOH, I have no issues wasting users' time on meta, so I'll just bring it up there ;)
 
@cigien Did my example not help?
 
@cigien Ahh. Maybe I'm also confused about your specific question then :)
 
@JeanneDark Not at all, I'm afraid. That question is close-worthy for multiple reasons anyway, and whether it's a HW question is irrelevant.
 
6:57 PM
Are you going to ask a homework Question on main now? :D
 
@cigien It was an example of the type of question we call homework question. And yes, it's close-worthy for multiple reasons.
 
@Scratte Fair enough. Maybe it's unclear in my own head. Anyway, if I figure it out, and there's not a reasonable dupe on meta, I'll ask there, and share the link here.
 
@Scratte It's just a thought, but I'm thinking of posting 2 questions :) Both zero-effort requirement dumps, that are clear and on-topic. The only difference would be that one would additionally say it's a HW assignment. I'd love to see if that garners varying responses.
Of course, I'll have to be careful. I certainly can't try that stunt in the tags I'm active in, and even in other tags, with my rep, users might get suspicious, and that would ruin the experiment. This might be a worthwhile reason to make another account
 
I've pasted the "3. Questions asking for homework help.." on quite a few Questions and flagged it as "Needs focus", and I consider myself to be in the more open to HowTo Questions than the general average.
@cigien I think you'll find both of them closed for the same variety of reasons as your last experiment :) Though I'd expect that the quality of your "requirement dump" will probably be better than most of them, and hence not be "closable".
 
7:05 PM
@Scratte It's tricky for sure. I might scrape some new questions to see if I can adapt something. BTW, would you be willing to post those questions from your account? You'd like the rep loss, right? ;)
 
@cigien I don't ask Questions.. I prefer to struggle :)
The problem is that as long as users close for the, in my opinion, invalid reason of "lacks effort", there's no Question I could imagine asking that could ever be answered, that also has been researched enough. So.. there's no point in asking.
 
Sigh
 
It's the lesser of two evils.. I don't mind them winning over me. I just mind them winning over other users. If that makes sense.
 
Yeah, your pov makes sense, in that I get where you're coming from. I just feel that it's perhaps misguided, and I certainly think it's not very productive.
 
7:33 PM
@cigien There are lots of users that never posts Questions :) There are 36 users here. 6 of them don't have any Questions at all. 9 of them have less than 10. Very few (only 3) of those were posted after 2015.
 
@TylerH Why did you leave a translation under the latest SD NAA post? Is it so that users don't mistakenly spam or R/A flag?
 
7:53 PM
@cigien just in case anyone was curious or the poster edited it, etc.
 
@TylerH Ok. So not necessary?
 
Correct, it is not necessary
 
Got it. Thanks.
 
I like that. Then I don't have to check myself. It could be an Answer, a NAA, rude or anything..
 
8:14 PM
 
quick question: can moderators reverse post bans?
 
@10Rep I believe so
 
I can't find any meta posts on that topic, thanks.
 
@10Rep which post bans do you mean?
 
Like an answer ban or question ban
 
8:20 PM
@10Rep Do you mean the system imposed question and/or answer bans? If so, no, there is no control available for moderators to do that.
 
@Makyen I meant system imposed question bans, yeah. Thanks.
 
Ah
 
@10Rep Moderators cannot lift the ban, so don't bother to ask. meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/255583/…
 
I was thinking of suspensions
 
@10Rep OTOH, moderators, like everyone else, can perform actions on a post (i.e. upvote/downvote), which the system takes into account when deciding if the user will have a question or answer ban.
 
8:26 PM
@Makyen So you are saying moderators go around upvoting banned users' posts in order to automatically remove the post ban on their accounts? Conspiracy!
 
@Makyen So theoretically a mod could undelete the post, upvote it, and then delete it to get close to reversing the ban?
 
that gets noticed for sure
so I won't risk my diamond on doing that (if I had one)
 
@TylerH Not usually, no. My general response to people asking about question/answer bans is to tell them that moderators can't turn those on/off, and to point them at the Meta which @rene linked. However, I have seen a moderator state on meta that they upvoted a couple/few of a person's posts to get them out of a ban.
 
@10Rep better option is to have the post disassociated from your account
 
@10Rep Yes, in theory, that would be possible.
 
8:30 PM
But it wouldn't really count as gaming the system, because the moderator is doing it for a good cause, no?
 
@rene I thought I'd seen it mentioned that disassociated posts still affected the bans.
 
@Makyen If you don't mind, can I quote you on meta?
 
@10Rep hang on, do you have a specific scenario in mind? A moderator doing this would probably be seen as abusing/gaming the system
if the reason for the actions could be definitively attributed to 'get a user unbanned'
even moderators are supposed to vote up/down/delete/etc. based on content, not based on the associated user
 
@TylerH Say the user who is question banned asked a question and then immediately realised that their code includes a typo. So since the question is closable as "typo", they delete it. In the theoretical situation that this happens enough times to get a ban, would the moderator doing this be considered gaming the system?
 
usually people who are post banned are ones we want post banned because it's really, really hard to get post banned if you make OK (or better) posts. So someone else working to get that person unbanned would definitely not be doing it for a "good" cause, in that sense
 
8:33 PM
@10Rep I don't really get a say in if you can quote me on Meta. As long as you comply with the CC BY-SA license, you get to quote anything on SE which is contributed by a user.
In general, I don't mind if you quote me. However, if you want to quote the part about a moderator saying they upvoted to get someone out of a ban, I'd prefer that you find the original statement, rather than using my statement of what I remember seeing.
 
@10Rep I would not approve of a moderator doing something to those posts in order to get the user out of the ban in that case. The questions (assuming the typo in them was the cause of the error) were rightfully deleted.
Users can always ask at least 1 question every 6 months even when 'permanently' question banned
It would take quite a few questions getting deleted by OP with that self-realization to get them question banned, since they wouldn't be closed or negatively scored. If a user is seriously not paying that much attention before posting, then we don't really want them posting here.
Depending on how frequently it happened, the user might even run into the system-imposed meter on self-deletions (put in place to prevent harmful site rage quits)
 
@Makyen that ... is news to me.
 
@rene If I did actually see it, it would have been on MSO or MSE. I'm not remembering the specifics, but just a general "oh, it works that way".
 
@Makyen Yeah, I don't think this is the case. Once disassociated, it's as if it never was posted under your account
if you can find an authoritative source that says otherwise I'd love to see it :-)
not to add anything to your plate...
 
It's hard to find meta posts, I looked for one with SE search and couldn't find it for the life of me.
I couldn't find the post where the moderator upvoted a users posts to get them out of a post ban, for instance.
 
8:44 PM
@10Rep it's better to search google with site:stackoverflow.com (etc) instead of searching directly within SE
 
@10Rep It may have been in either a comment or answer. It wasn't all that recent, but it also wasn't a long time ago.
 
@Makyen Maybe what I'm remembering is that in the disassociation process the effect of the current state of the post, wrt. the Q&A bans, was directly applied to the user's account. The base thing I'm remembering is that it was recognized that people might try to game the bans by disassociating posts which were negatively received, and that something was in place to prevent people from succeeding at gaming it in that way.
Maybe all I'm remembering is that that method of gaming the system will be one of the things checked for in the manual process of disassociating a post.
 
@Makyen that sounds much more likely
 
This may be what was meant when someone mentioned a moderator upvoting a user's post to get them out of a ban. Which in this case wasn't gaming the system, but rather avoiding the system gaming the user, if I may say so: Prevent answer ban from kicking in for a single honest mistake for a new user cc @10Rep
I'd not mention to any user that it's technically possible for a moderator to lift any normal Question ban by circumventing the system imposed one by committing.. well.. basically voting fraud? I mean why would any moderator do that?
 
9:43 PM
@Scratte It's not, necessarily, possible. The only advantage which a moderator has is that they know about the user's deleted posts and can force being able to vote on them (as previously described). There's definitely no guaranty that the votes by a single user will get a user out of a ban. In addition, such votes are just as subject to being auto-reverted, due to serial voting, as votes by anyone else.
 
@Makyen Awesome :) Obviously the posts need to have a score high enough for the voting to have any effect. But I've just realized that it's going to take en entire group of moderators to make it happen :P
Unless it's just one un-deleting the posts and a group of minor conspirators to do the voting. At least I think one can safely say that it's not only unlikely to happen, but Dharman would find out and flag it :D
 
Is Smokey allowed to vote? reference to comment that made me wonder
 
9:59 PM
@Scratte Generally, no. I suppose a human with access to the account could make the account vote, but that's not the same thing. And a fully automated vote would stand out like a sore thumb
 
@Machavity But lets say Smokey's human handler does so. The votes between the human handler and the bot may not exceed the 40 a day limit, right? So what's the point of allowing the bot to vote at all?
 
anyone else annoyed at the change they made a while ago to profiles where it hides the extra profile space except on hover? I much prefer a scrollbar
 
@TylerH Screen shot?
 
@Scratte Go to my profile and hover over the free text section that I filled out
 
@TylerH chat profile or normal one? Normal one.. nothing happens. I see a vertical scroll bar.
 
10:03 PM
@Scratte hmm, maybe it is a change made by one of the userscripts I'm using. Would be one of Sam's that made the change, probably.
Yep, it's ReduceClutter that does it
 
I used it for a very short time, then I figured it was doing too much that I wasn't too happy about.
But I'm using the one that reverts the tooltips. And I think one other that was also taken out into it's own script.
 
If OP asks about how some feature works in language X, and also mentions that they know how a similar feature works in language Y, is that ok? Can/should I edit out any references to Y? Also, should I remove tags?
 
@Scratte At this point I've had to report/change at least 4 things that it has changed without my knowing about the changes.
 
@TylerH You mean changes to the user script or changes to Stack?
 
changes to the user script
it doesn't appear to be a change made in response to a bug, FR, or PR
so it was silently changed at some point
at least, as far as I recall it didn't do this all the time I've been using it
 
10:14 PM
@Scratte Smokey cases flags, not votes, tho. But we don't have a "flag only" account
 
@Machavity According to Smokey's Profile the bot has voted: 1 up-vote!
... I'm guessing it was for the answer by ElectionBot. :)
 
@AdrianMole ..the plot thickens ;)
 
I got an interesting comment from a high-rep user in a question we closed with @TylerH as "not about programming (ML theory/methodology)" after my request here: stackoverflow.com/questions/65149280/…
 
There was definitely something going on between those two bots in the Election Chatroom! Whether conspiratorial or romantic, I can't say.
 
I replied, but I would be interested to hear alternative opinions
As an SME, I would have closed the question as "needs details/clarity" (i.e. I don't think it is a good one, irrespectively of being on- or off-topic), but this is not the issue here.
 

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