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wim
7:03 AM
Hello MetaPython, I have an ongoing issue with a particular room 6 owner. The message was much too long to post in chat, so I post here instead.
 
7:21 AM
@wim I never noticed davidism deleting any of your chat messages (I assume that's what you mean when you say "censoring"), do you have some examples of this?
 
@wim It might help keep things neutral if you document the number of times you were kicked, and nominally what for, if anything. As you know there are no longer regular room meetings, not that that would make much difference. What are people's expectations of any RO aacountability in general? ("I'm tired of hearing the retort 'But he doesn't do it to me, therefore it isn't a problem'". ..
...Also the standard line 'But ROs and mods sometimes discuss this stuff in private, just trust they get things right without verifying the other side of the story' doesn't do transparency either.
 
7:44 AM
And it occurs to me that the ROs could use some guidelines on deescalation in discussions. Also in the particular case where a RO is party to a discussion and has a strong opinion, it's very hard for them to also neutrally moderate that discussion. The obvious measure is to table (=postpone) discussing a subject for like 24+ hours. To allow all sides to cool down and rehprase. I'd like to see that used as much as possible as an alternative to kicking, for regulars and non-troll/vampire users.
 
8:16 AM
@wim For context, has there been some recent activity that triggered you to post this now, specifically, as I'm not sure I've seen anything in the last day or so?
 
8:51 AM
It was before this room got reopened
"Censorship" was kniving
in Python Ouroboros - The Rotating Knives, Jun 8 at 14:20, by wim
@AnnZen The Dark Council removes stars occasionally if they are not expressing approved opinions.
A "joke" on the theme of thought policing and oppression, which wim brings up every now and then so he knows he's walking a line at best when prodding that
If thishad been wim's first rodeo the response would have been disproportionate. But it wasn't, and a regular like wim must know that when an edgy post gets trashed and after a kick it's better to stop what they've been doing, rather than post "voila" proving that they're being repressed in a chip-on-their-shoulder way.
2
But I haven't had a chance to read wim's post yet. This is just my baseline.
 
I have read wim's post and it goes back to a Meta post from 2016 that I have also read in the past. The problem I see is that there is too much history tangled up in this; I have been aware of this "issue" (for want of a better word) pretty much since I joined the room. The ideal scenario, I see, would just be a reboot for both parties such that there is no many-years-long context behind every statement or action. Given that's not possible, I don't see where we can move
 
 
4 hours later…
wim
12:57 PM
@roganjosh Yes it was the one that Andras mentioned, except he has put some of his own spin on it that I don't really agree with (I just thought it was kind of amusing that a message about disappearing messages got disappeared, nothing so deep as "proving that they're being repressed" or thought policing or anything like that)
Kicks used to be frequent, must be 10 times or more, but it had been a long while since this time. I thought the problem was gone for good but no
@smci I don't care to make a laundry list of all those, but a couple of times I could remember enough to find again in the search ..
this time I asked if they could post any music videos as shortlinks rather than onebox. No discussion or anything just an instant kick. (I use the Python chat at work and those youtube vids would often have some anime girl on the picture that was not a good look in the office)
this time I was saying something about F vs C (temperature units) and he just says that it's a really stupid discussion. Kick. I don't even understand, still, but every time if I ask about the kick then I just get kicked again.
I don't think user should moderate if they can't be impartial. You're right that there's history but that is no excuse, don't just kick or mute a user because you didn't like what they wrote or they disagreed about something. That's not stack exchange rules and not in stack exchange spirits..
interestingly I think davidism and I actually have a pretty similar vision about the main site (well maintained knowledge base of reference content, downvote and delete all the crap). he put a lot of good content on there and curates accurately, if not exactly friendly, but to net positive effect! so it's ironic that we can have such differences and disagreements about how the chat should work
 
1:26 PM
@wim not that it really matters but are you certain you were kicked for the original discussion and not "Sometimes I think the topics you discuss are stupid too"?
There's a not so subtle difference
 
That's not kick-worthy either, though.
 
wim
I'm pretty sure I was kicked twice then, but I don't remember for sure any more. The answer maybe in the room logs for moderators or RO's
 
ROs don't see that, alas
 
I've been told davidism has good intentions, but honestly, more often than not he just ends up pouring fuel on the fire
 
@Aran-Fey I won't deny that
 
wim
1:31 PM
@Aran-Fey I also think that's not kick-worthy, so thank you for your comment. Let's make chat a casual place to hang out and talk vaguely Python-related, not this place with a thousand rules sometimes even more strict than main and impossible to have a disagreement with someone
 
 
7 hours later…
 
2 hours later…
10:34 PM
@wim for what it's worth I agree that that particular RO's methods are a bit draconian, even if they mean well. Then again I haven't personally seen what transpired recently, so my outlook could be outdated. This is just from my personal experience, the dude certainly cannot take criticism in any form, and is not ready to explain themselves when the time comes to do so (at meetings, as requested). I've seen this point brought up time again with not really anything being done about it.
Feel free to agree, or disagree with what I say, this is only my opinion
 

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