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6:06 PM
@JossieCalderon to talk to fellow python people, or ask for help within the constraints of the room rules
 
6:19 PM
I didn't know pandas was case sensitive.
 
most things are in python
 
I personally can't even think of a single counter example to be honest. the case matters.
 
There are things like pyplot parameter values that are a bit more flexible. 'horizontal-alignment' or 'ha', etc.
 
i see, good to know
though not quite sure how i feel about that :P is that a matlab influence?
 
I wouldn't be surprised if those were case insensitive
 
6:22 PM
Hi, does anyone have a more elegant solution to this: stackoverflow.com/questions/60404670/…
 
@ParitoshSingh could be, MATLAB definitely does that
 
Does anyone else read tutorials instead of the actual docs?
@Saganlives Hasnt been 48 hours, you shouldnt be asking here
 
ok?
 
I used to. As a beginner, docs can be intimidating, though python docs have been frankly very well written
 
6:24 PM
noted, I am stuck on this project, thanks tho
 
you might get help in the remaning day and a half, and if you don't you're welcome to ask here again
 
@ParitoshSingh They are awesome, but you're right
@Saganlives If your question is eligible for a bounty (>= 48 hours old) and hasn't received a useful response, then you may link to it.
 
noted
 
It's honestly more of a mental block more than anything. Once you get used to reading docs, you never go back.
 
<shrug/> I tend to start with a tutorial on new libraries and leave docs alone. I find it easier if I have a vague mental framework of the library first
 
6:28 PM
It's all you really need anyways, and in my experience, tutorials are just docs with some sugar
but josh does bring up a good point!
 
assuming you find a decent tutorial
 
realpython ok?
 
Probably, although I've seen a low-quality page there (about lambdas)
 
user11585758
guys a quater epoch passed model accuracy is not increasing, what should i do
Train on 5216 samples, validate on 16 samples
Epoch 1/50
5216/5216 [==============================] - 177s 34ms/sample - loss: 3.9206 - accuracy: 0.7429 - val_loss: 7.6246 - val_accuracy: 0.5000
Epoch 2/50
5216/5216 [==============================] - 173s 33ms/sample - loss: 3.9205 - accuracy: 0.7429 - val_loss: 7.6246 - val_accuracy: 0.5000
Epoch 3/50
5216/5216 [==============================] - 172s 33ms/sample - loss: 3.9205 - accuracy: 0.7429 - val_loss: 7.6246 - val_accuracy: 0.5000
 
Dec 9 '19 at 12:41, by Andras Deak
Ugh https://realpython.com/python-lambda/ . I just took a glance after this was asked about on main:
 
6:30 PM
I think python builtins are best left to python docs.
 
I don't pick any one source. Usually the tutorial choice will be task-driven by whatever appears to do roughly what I want at the time. Just like getting comfortable with docs, I can usually scan a tutorial in ~30 secs to get an idea of whether it's reliable. I abandon plenty just from that scan
 
^ aye
 
@AndrasDeak Hmm, looks ok to me. What's wrong? Maybe it's edited now.
 
@JossieCalderon click the date in my quoted message and you'll see the short discussion there
 
@mathematics You need to check your code bro...ask it on StackOverflow, wait 48 hours, and come back with a bounty.
 
6:34 PM
@JossieCalderon They don't have to come back with a bounty. And it's alright to ask here only. The problem is asking here and on main in parallel. You can leave moderation to regulars and room owners for now.
 
@mathematics there are a billion things to try out to improve model performance, and no one can simply tell you what to do. It's a lot of trial and error. For starters though, you can see what happens if you make your model more complex (more layers, or more neurons per layer). having said that, 16 validation samples is an abysmally low number, there's no real use in that kind of test set then. your split needs to be more like a split. Go for something close to 70:30 ratio
 
@AndrasDeak OK
@AndrasDeak Indeed, RealPython has a few mistakes (especially their web tutorial, part 1 written, with Django). But it's a good start. (8/10)
 
user11585758
@ParitoshSingh , what things can i add to increase model performance :
 
@mathematics I think that's going to be too broad to properly help with. Firstly, what type of model is it?
 
@mathematics start reading up some blogs on the matter. I'm not kidding when i say there's a lot of trial and error involved. here's a start for example.
 
user11585758
6:37 PM
@roganjosh , my model is penumonia detection
 
I mean what type of model? Neural network?
 
user11585758
It had 90% above people have done , im so afraid
 
yeah, that's the output of a some kind of neural network*
 
user11585758
oh its cnn with dense
 
@mathematics no, you can't trust your numbers. you literally put almost every data point in training.
 
user11585758
6:38 PM
@ParitoshSingh thanks :)
 
Your train test split is abysmally skewed.
 
I'm not familiar with CNNs so I don't suppose I could even give a rough idea of what to tune
 
user11585758
That kagglers were doing so
 
user11585758
ok
 
Am i reading it correctly that you have 5216 samples in train, and 16 in test? Do you know yet why that is bad?
 
6:40 PM
In validation I think, not test
 
If I am creating a login system in tkinter - should I create new windows as the user progresses through each option?
 
I use the two interchangeably because everyone else does.
 
So presumably it doesn't have enough data points to adjust its weights on each epoch and actually converge
 
If not, it might also be worth exploring why we do a train test split in the first place. Sadly again, It might not be a good place to discuss here, there's a lot of blogs that cover it a lot better than we could in a chatroom in a reasonable amount of lines.
 
user11585758
i am chainging to valid test to have weights 70:30 . Thankyou @roganjosh
 
6:42 PM
@mathematics the split ratio was from Paritosh but ok, that'll probably help :)
 
user11585758
@ParitoshSingh thanks, . i had heard from andrew , to use valid to test thing
 
user11585758
Thanks @roganjosh @ParitoshSingh :)
 
Ah. i've heard Andrew's material is excellent, that's a good source of information
One day i will actually get to experience it for myself. I hope. :P
 
user11585758
@ParitoshSingh are you dl practitioner
 
user11585758
or ai engineer
 
6:44 PM
@ParitoshSingh interesting. It doesn't make sense to me to use them interchangeably because one is used during the training phase to help the model converge, and test data is completely unseen. Maybe I've been out of the loop too long
 
For all intents and purposes, I'm just a guy interested by the field more so than anything.
@roganjosh no no, you're spot on. It's just libraries don't do a great job making that distinction
 
user11585758
:) .
 
For example, look at that very output, tensorflow/keras just use the terms train and validation.
 
user11585758
Can i use x_test, y_test to validation data while training instead of x_valid , y_valid
 
oh boy
 
user11585758
6:46 PM
and use x_valid,y_valid as test for predication
 
Do you want the quick and dirty answer, or the "correct" one. The quick and dirty is simple: only split your data into two sections, train and test/validation.
 
user11585758
OK :)
 
@ParitoshSingh I think that makes sense. I actually haven't used either library properly but I imagine the "unseen" test is a separate module, possibly with some method for 10-fold cross-validation. Unseen data is irrelevant to model training
 
user11585758
Thanks guys bye, if any good progress comes i will get with news :)
 
user11585758
oh
 
6:48 PM
Wow, I adore pandas....this stuff is powerful
 
Hold that thought. Treasure it.
 
I just found out the middle school I attended is still not at it's best :'(
 
@roganjosh Indeed. More so than anything, there's two big issues with keeping an unseen data. The primary is the urge to retune the model after running the results on this "never used for tuning" dataset (to date, i still don't know whether the right term for it is validation or test. Let's call it "withheld" set just so we can have this discussion without me misleading you). The secondary is: it's rare to have the luxury of enough data points to justify holding out a lot of data points
 
without looking at the data sheet
@roganjosh considered :)
 
In an ideal world, you'd be trying a lot of different kinds of models, and when a model is done with all training and finetuning, you'd run each model once and only once on the "withheld" set. At that point, you'd treat them as frozen in place, and pick the best one.
 
6:51 PM
Well, picking the best one was the cause of my major bust-up with the university and losing interest in my PhD so let's not expand the scope to that area :P
 
Lets just say, this world doesn't really exist. Maybe in AD's side of things perhaps, with rigorous researchers in ML and AI perhaps
Out in the wild though, i've yet to actually see a 3 way split that didn't end up being used for tuning by the end of it all
I'd be surprised if it even exists.
 
err...I don't know what type loc returns? cant even find it in the docs
> returns valid output for indexing (one of the above)
 
@roganjosh oh. hmm, losing interest permanently or temporarily? reckon you might reconsider down the line?
 
but what type though
@ParitoshSingh he literally said "don't expand the scope"
c'mon man
 
@JossieCalderon I didn't. Note that i am not asking about the event itself at all. In case it might be taken that way, im sure roganjosh will let me know
 
6:55 PM
@ParitoshSingh reconsidered an awful lot. But I lost faith in academia when I got a new joint-supervisor in the final year that specialised in machine learning
 
Never mind. it returns either a Series or a DataFrame/
@roganjosh Haha, didnt even climb that ladder! Just dived straight into the real world...
That's unlucky, though. Sorry.
 
@JossieCalderon I've known Paritosh a long enough time that he knows when it's inappropriate to continue even if he's curious :P
 
user11585758
So guys model is in training,
 
user11585758
I made more deeper
 
user11585758
I have some doubts about these things can i ask
 
6:58 PM
Yes
 
@ParitoshSingh I'm on my phone so it'll be hard to explain. When I get back I'll see if I can locate the graph that caused the meltdown :P
 
@roganjosh That'll be a fun story hehehe
 
sounds good :P For what it's worth, there's also merits to working outside academia. But having said that, I've actually been pondering if i should bite the bullet, and consider further studies
 
user11585758
@JossieCalderon
I am so confused about that binary_crossentropy and mean_squared_error
 
user11585758
when to use these things,
 
7:00 PM
@mathematics I can't help you, but maybe others can
Nice username btw
 
user11585758
OK thats fine @JossieCalderon :) .:)
 
@ParitoshSingh Same, but you need the money to eat.
 
And that too. :)
 
user11585758
@JossieCalderon , opposite to my username , my life always i have failed in mathematics :D
 
@mathematics in this specific question, at least the choice is easy. MSE is for regression, binary_crossentropy is for classification.
As long as you remember the error metrics based on the type of problem you're solving, you can figure out which to use
 
7:04 PM
Do you guys think the accepted answer should not be accepted?
11
Q: Search for a value anywhere in a pandas DataFrame

Josh FriedlanderThis seems like a simple question, but I couldn't find it asked before (this and this are close but the answers aren't great). The question is: if I want to search for a value somewhere in my df (I don't know which column it's in) and return all rows with a match. What's the most Pandaic way ...

I think the 2nd answer is better
 
Once again, knowing the answer doesn't actually help much when it comes to ML. The moment you spend some time figuring out the why behind it, you'll be in a much better position to reason out these things.
 
user11585758
that francois https://blog.keras.io/building-autoencoders-in-keras.html , had used binary_crossentropy , in making autoencoder, it is so low accuracy

but when i used mse, strangely it worked giving lowest loss
 
@mathematics because you're using the wrong metric. It's like trying to measure how tall a building is by counting how many elevators are inside the building.
think of how MSE works.
 
user11585758
@ParitoshSingh please could you look at my question stackoverflow.com/questions/60349306/…
 
step 1: downvote that answer. step 2: carry on
 
7:09 PM
too much bold/10
 
What's a fast 2D graphics library for Python?
 
user11585758
but did you see that loss in mse than binary_crossentropy
 
Actually, I might also be wrong here. I am not sure what metric encoders use usually
 
e.g. how do Pygame, Pyglet, and PyCairo compare in terms of speed?
 
ok yes, it is binary_crossentropy
 
user11585758
7:11 PM
mse had reconstrocted nice model than binary_cross
 
hello
can someone help me?
 
4 mins ago, by Paritosh Singh
@mathematics because you're using the wrong metric. It's like trying to measure how tall a building is by counting how many elevators are inside the building.
 
qwerty have you read the room's rules at the top right? Namely just ask your question, dont ask if you can ask a question
 
ok so sorry
 
user11585758
@ParitoshSingh that means it mse isnt perfect although it show less loss
 
7:14 PM
I'll say this once, and i hope you realise how important it is. When building ML models, don't just try to "get it to work", spend some time understanding the "why" of things first. Without the necessary groundwork, the best you can do is copy paste code, and watch it fail the moment the dataset changes even slightly. You're missing the groundwork right now to reason about the underlying algorithms, which will hinder your own learning.
4
 
yeah cause if you ask if you can ask a question, you've already asked a question, so R.I.P.
 
user11585758
Ok
 
@mathematics indeed, mse isn't the right metric here. Generally, stick to the metric shown in tutorials if you're not sure. then try to find out why they use that metric vs something else
 
user11585758
ok Thankyou @ParitoshSingh :) .
 
The issue is, it gets a bit fuzzy since you can force yourself to use MSE in this case and make it work too
 
user11585758
7:16 PM
:). New invention .
 
But you're fundamentally rehprasing the problem statement "or what to learn on" for the model without even realising it if you do that. remember, the error completely determines what the model is learning
 
user11585758
Guys but did you had suffered from not supported avx instruction in your computer? How did you had takled it?
 
I tackle things by ignoring them till they go away. Im not sure if that happened or not.
 
user11585758
That was because of old laptop , which i couldnt use tf 2.x in my laptop . Its so hurting in progress
 
Intresting, was it tensorflow running on CPU or gpu?
 
user11585758
7:19 PM
I am in cpu
 
user11585758
I asked question , people gave -2 votes :(
 
user11585758
and eventually i deleted question
 
user11585758
If you have any idea to tackle this please help , thanks in advance .
 
Im reading up on image autoencoders now, and i'm also seeing examples with people using MSE.
I apologize for misleading you. In this case, MSE is also fine
 
user11585758
Oh is it :)
 
7:25 PM
the problem is being phrased as pixel by pixel comparison, and regression makes sense there for each pixel value
 
user11585758
oh, but actually in current condition everything in deep learning seems to be hit trials
 
Aye, trial and error forms a very important part of deep learning
 
user11585758
:D
 
user11585758
Could be because we are not getting how intelligence works inside our head .
 
nah, though you could say that if we could perfectly mimic how intelligence works inside our head, we wouldn't need to tinker around that much. But it's not really as abstract as that, trial and error is needed simply because you essentially balance between overfitting and underfitting every time you're training the model.
rbrb
 
user11585758
7:33 PM
:)
 
user11585758
Friend , please tell me if you find , how can i use tensorflow 2.0 or any libraries in my old laptop that dont support avx instruction, several dl softwares are also not working in my machine, nor pytorch . Help!!!. Bye
 
user11585758
please leave message how it works, here night is becoming day, seeing colab training bye.
 
8:22 PM
@ParitoshSingh It's gone :/ I've just spent 45 minutes going through all the files from that period; I was fastidious about files until that date and things unraveled. I have a feeling I just printed the email attachment to take with me to rant about. Suffice to say, it was quite a turning point in machine learning and academia for me
He trained and validated all the models. R^2, MSE, MASE etc. all good; fantastic. So I asked him to fix all parameters and just vary one parameter over a range and plot the results. He picked the 4 best models for the job. this is not even an exaggeration on what I received back
I asked which should be believed; he told me that I should go with the model that made the most sense. Aaaand the rest is history :)
 
8:39 PM
@roganjosh chuckle those plots are a definite 10/10, though it's unfortunate you had to be on the receiving end of that kinda mess
 
He actually came into academia after being an ML researcher for IBM. Crazy.
 
wim
9:05 PM
@ParitoshSingh Good question? Before enum existed, I would sometimes make the values each an object() instance.
There is a use-case for values mapping to lower-level protocols (e.g. all those integers values in errno and signal) but that is mostly served by enum.IntEnum.
 
9:18 PM
@wim I also do this, so that 'is' testing works correctly.
 
9:40 PM
What's the best place to upload images for not getting adult adverts? I've re-opened my last link and it's now got an advert that I'd rather not have associated with the post; I hadn't seen such adverts before on that host
In fact, they don't even display on desktop, only mobile, so I was ignorant of the issue until opening on a phone :/
 
@roganjosh imgur
or if you don't want to have control of the content: stack imgur :P
 
I'll do that in future @AndrasDeak. I feel bad now using ibb because I've used that quite a bit simply because it's similar to dpaste in being such a simple interface. It's frustrating to see that they've hidden the ads purely in the mobile view :(
 
9:56 PM
something about free lunches comes to mind :)
 
The originator of the idea probably needs a chiropractor to deal with all the back-patting :P
<angry fist shake>Curse you, Steve for the annoyingly genius business model!</angry fist shake>
 
10:09 PM
@roganjosh for some reason that reminded me of xkcd.com/792
 
@AndrasDeak I guess the "some reason" is perfect logic :)
 
except I presume you didn't register on ibb.co
that would be the only benefit of using a paste service as opposed to something more decent
 
No, but I bet they know quite a bit about me
 
hmm, maybe
 
I don't use DuckDuckGo, for example, or an adblocker
 
10:14 PM
do you facebook?
 
Yep. How else can I find Angry People in local Newspapers or Terrible Art in Charity Shops? :P
 
welp P
 
I ramble so much to people in pubs when they tell me they just got some device in their house. I haven't found my balance yet because they keep making me feel that I'm wearing a tinfoil hat
 
The people in the pub? They do sound like reliable sources in infosec.
 
Ye Olde Erudite Inn, though?
^ totally made up btw. But would be a decent boozer
It's really interesting when you explain to people that Samsung issued info to turn their TV off if they're having a private convo, or that things like Alexa send recordings to real people for verification. I think they feel attacked on a very basic level so they end up justifying their way out of the debate. I suspect a part of my own mental process does the same. I really need to lock things down for myself... but haven't
 
10:29 PM
So instead of staying away from newbie questions for a while I ended up joining a python discord. I really suck at staying away from things that are bad for me.
 
@Aran-Fey please don't join the FB Python group. I struggle to understand why it's even a closed group. A chilling insight into the next generation of programmers
 
fortunately I'm not on facebook, so no worries there
 
@Aran-Fey the way you're sliding down the slope you'll get there in no time!
 
He's safe. He can't answer anything there because it's nonsensical.
 
10:44 PM
doesn't sound much worse than other places where people ask questions
 
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