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12:00 AM
grrr, aargh.
Actually, I'm looking to get involved in Pascal/Delphi (I learnt Pascal before I even heard about C). Just need an excuse.
 
the languages you already know are too useful?
 
Lots of people learned Pascal before C. It used to be a lot more popular. Most of the early programming for the IBM PC was done in Pascal, and pretty much all early programming for the Mac.
I've never learned Pascal, since I came into computing after its heyday.
Delphi is, apparently, a nice language, and probably what you should learn now, instead of "pure" Pascal.
 
I learned Pascal on a VAX (moved up from Fortran-77). But I can't find a decent (and 'free') compiler. Delphi is a bit to much 'dialect' for my taste.
 
FreePascal?
 
... but I do have the Embarcadero Builder (educational licence), so maybe I'll give it a whirl, when I grow up.
 
12:05 AM
@AdrianMole quit fortran too soon!
 
Yeah - I peeked in the Fortran tag - simply don't recognize the language from back in the day.
 
12:16 AM
Night all, I'm for the sack.
 
 
1 hour later…
1:20 AM
If anyone is bored and feel like helping me, I have a question about an answer. But I don't want to clutter this room with it.
 
 
5 hours later…
6:38 AM
@TylerH Question is now deleted.
 
7:16 AM
@CodyGray I have his book ...
... and I've seen him live at a PDC talk.
 
I have the book, too. But I've never seen him live.
 
He has good humor
 
Yeah, I picked up on that from the blog and the book.
I've kinda wondered what sort of speaker he is. I haven't yet found enough time to waste to watch one of the pre-recorded videos.
Watching videos is a frustratingly inefficient way for me to imbibe knowledge.
 
7:48 AM
@CodyGray He has a few. There is one (actually two but they screwed the sound (all the audio)) in the Microsoft Archives which I found entertaining. And I watched it as a Raymond fan, not because I expected to learn much.
 
8:33 AM
@VadimKotov off-topic for me
maybe webapps.se take that question
 
@rene yeah, for me too. Voting for close
 
 
2 hours later…
10:04 AM
 
10:31 AM
Figured I should come clean here: I was contacted recently by SO's user research department and was asked to do a video interview about the review system, which took place two weeks ago. There, I highlighted two points about the Triage system (the vicious cycle of Requires Editing and the non-intuitiveness of the names of the review buttons), which are concerns that I've seen raised here.
3
I was told I could email them if I have any other concerns about the review system, so if anyone wants, please let me know and I'll research them and possibly raise them.
 
@gparyani Plop! Thank you for the information =D
 
Specifically, when I mean the names of the review buttons, I mentioned the relative harshness of the term "unsalvageable" and people's understandable reluctance to use that button on questions that are missing just a bit of info from the author.
@Makyen Since I've often seen you raise such concerns here, pinging you to notify you.
The interview lasted for an hour and there were many more things I brought up, which are too numerous to list.
 
11:02 AM
@gparyani Do you want input from a new reviewer who's continuously confused and keeps failing review despite really trying?
 
I don't visit some of the queues, because I never know which button to press. Triage and H&I are the worst. I don't know what is their purpose.
 
@Dharman Triage and H&I are easy, just follow the lines in this diagram ....
 
@Dharman triage is supposed to do two things: teach new reviewers how to use a review queue in a relatively harmless environment, and weed out outrageous crap before it reaches the main page. It does a rather bad job at either. H&I has the problem that Triage keeps pushing unsalvageable stuff into it, which makes the entire queue a "should be closed instead" line.
 
That we even need a flow diagram to understand all these review queues might be a sign something is off ...
2
 
Why do we need 2 queues then? If they are working together why not merge them into a single queue? What is the point in pressing Needs Editing if I need to go into the other queue and edit it there.
Same with unsalvagable. Let me cast CV or flags if I think it is unsalvagable. Don't send it to yet another queue.
 
11:13 AM
@Dharman there was a grand master plan ... but the architect of that plan didn't get the resources assigned to get it implemented and then events took place that probably pushes this even further out, if not cancelling the whole plan.
 
@Dharman I think the main reason for doing this is that low rep users, i.e. without close vote or edit privs, can actually enter the triage queue. You'd have to make 3 parallel systems for triage otherwise, one for <2k rep, one for 2k<rep<3k and one for >3k
@rene with "events" you mean the firing of the architect?
 
yes
 
@Adriaan Surely the system should be able to read my reputation score and adjust the actions for me
 
@Dharman if that ever gets build, yes. Problem is what the blurry one just said.
Basically the queues were invented and implemented years ago, and not touched since.
 
Unrelated question: Why did my UI change when I joined SOBotics Teams?
Both Mobile and Desktop UIs have improved.
 
11:19 AM
@rene Indeed, I showed them Taryn's flowcharts on Meta.SE to provide a visual of what exactly the issue with the queue was.
 
@gparyani yeah. Good call.
@Dharman there are "features" that only Team users get. In the early days this also meant various bugs ....
 
11:41 AM
Aww come on, I copy pasted that from the FAQ.
Why didn't that render as a tag?
 
11:53 AM
@mickmackusa line break in the message
 
And it broke the line. 10/10 works as advertised
 
if the message is multi-line all special rendering processing is aborted
 
except auto-URL links, and maybe quotes?
and multiline code :P
 
yeah, ofc there are always exceptions ....
 
*grabs the goalposts*
 
11:56 AM
Someone should try and catch those
 
what with cyclone Ciara...
 
@AndrasDeak It's her! Ciara
 
@mickmackusa did you copy it from here: socvr.org/… ? Just checking if I can put some guidance in there.
 
@rene Yam's been slacking
 
A lot more have been slacking ...
 
12:04 PM
Yes, that's where I copied it from.
I can't edit it anymore
 
your shame will be preserved for all eternity
 
@mickmackusa I've edited that part of the guidance slightly. Can you check if that would have helped you a bit upfront?
 
12:30 PM
(again: keep it on one single line, do not add linebreaks!) Cool thanks. Honestly, I didn't know there was a newline in my initial post. I assumed my phone's limited input field width was just wordwrapping.
 
yeah, it is hard to see if you have a line break before submitting the message
And I won't comment on the UX when on a phone ...
 
12:44 PM
@mickmackusa if you notice the error, you have about 2 minutes to edit the message
in the mobile interface (at least the one I see on my phone) clicking on a message gets you a toolbar with an arrow icon to reply to the selected message, and a pencil to edit it
but the user interface is brittle, it doesn't work at all in some browsers and erratically in others
 
1:00 PM
Sorry if this is the wrong room for this. Could someone direct me to where I can analyse a review ban. I was banned for 8 days and I don't quite understand why. Thanks!
 
@CallumWatkins Here I believe: stackoverflow.com/review
 
@CallumWatkins Check your last reviews on your profile page under the "activities" tab. You most likely failed rather a few as of late. Otherwise you can raise an issue on meta
 
It should give you a message as to why you were banned including a failed audit or specific review
 
On that link I see one review which I made a mistake on. Although 8 days seems a bit much for one error so I reckon there are multiple. On the activities tab can I see which ones were the issues?
 
Not easily, you'd have to hunt for them, but you wouldn't know which ones were the bad ones as your good ones will be there too
 
1:03 PM
I think it was a mod action
 
Alright, cheers for the help
@Vega what makes you think that?
the extended duration?
 
If it wasn't caused by an audit it was almost certainly a mod action
 
@CallumWatkins Did you fail audits? I take a guess, no ? I saw two of you comments under answers, that are not NAA
 
@Vega I'm not sure what you mean by audits
 
@CallumWatkins Have you ever been reviewing and seen a "STOP!" or a "Congratulations this was a test!"? They're audits, they're to make sure you're paying attention
 
1:08 PM
@NickA Ah, yes and I've only ever passed them. Never failed.
 
@CallumWatkins Then it was a mod action, you can ask on meta if you want more information (there's every chance you'll get downvotes on your meta question if you do but they don't matter on meta so much)
 
@NickA Yeah I'm not particularly fond of meta, it has quite a harsh atmosphere. I'll wait out the ban and hope that they improve the UI to show what I did wrong at some point. What's the point of banning someone if they don't know why right?
 
Each to their own, although you likely won't find out exactly why you were review banned if you don't ask
 
I'll consider asking, must go now, thanks again
 
1:19 PM
@NathanOliver Morning for you ....
 
2:35 PM
@honk Sounds reasonable to me (you think it's off-topic as non-programming)
 
@Vega this post got edited: stackoverflow.com/q/60170249/578411 not sure if it now needs a different treatment. / cc @NickA @robsiemb
 
Old question (4 years old), New bounty for off-site resources? What is proper action ?
 
@rene IMO No, still unclear what they want
 
@rene Thank you:) It still lacks some focus
 
@Shree Mod flag and explain. They can retract the bounty and close the question
 
2:39 PM
^
 
@NickA Thanks!
 
@Machavity I hesitate to mod flag. Canned rep I gate , Wait for bounty expire bla bla not remember exactly but declined flag :(
 
@Shree Got a link?
 
I mod flagged the question. It's a clear offsite resource request, and the OP did not put the bounty out so someone else wants more resources
 
2:48 PM
@Machavity thanks. Ping me when flag handled :)
 
@honk FYI, SharePoint development used to be a much bigger subset of questions on Stack Overflow. However, there's also a SharePoint.SE site, and these days Microsoft is pushing a user-centric mgmt methodology for SharePoint Online, rather than the traditional "top-down" mgmtt methodology where sites and site collections are created, designed, and configured exclusively by folks in web development capacities.
 
@TylerH Thanks for the background information! I know that there is SharePoint.SE, but unfortunately our migration paths are quite limited...
 
How long does it take for an unanswered question to be deleted merely from being unanswered?
 
@Scratte Depends
 
@Machavity Thanks :) I better find an answer to my own question then :)
 
@honk Yeah, it would be great if they'd overhaul the migration options for close reasons
There's really no good reason why that list doesn't include 15 or so migration options
 
3:53 PM
@Scratte I would think twice ;) You will miss an occasion to get the badge "Tumbleweed"
 
@TylerH Yeah, but I have no hope for that. As long as they fail to find a better wording for "Requires Editing", nothing else will improve, I guess...
 
@honk I still say you send that user to the editing window and make them fix it then and there
 
@Vega I so wanted that badge. Unfortunately it's a "Retired Badge" stackoverflow.com/help/badges
 
Oh, no... You will, sure, not get it. I hope I will get an answer, though :)
 
4:10 PM
@Vega I almost have an answer already, but it just doesn't seem right to post it until all hope is lost :) There's a crazy line between doing enough research and making a Question look overwhelmingly long.
 
@Scratte Hmm, well I am using sqlfiddle because it supports MSSQL syntax. dbfiddle.com does not. I guess I'll check if dbfiddle.uk does, but also the input lines are one-liners there, which is not as good as textareas :-( dbfiddle.uk/…
 
meant *you will get an answer and not I in chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/48562333#48562333
 
@TylerH I agree. It's annoying. It does have the advantage of unique URL for every run, so you can always go back or share it without anyone else messing with your queries.
 
4:33 PM
@Scratte oh wait, you can hit enter to make it multiline
that's annoying ux discoverability...
Yep, seems to work OK @Scratte dbfiddle.uk/…
 
@TylerH Hmm.. I always thought it was one statement per "box" :D Not just one line.. but I see you've expanded on my usage of this. Thanks :)
 
Happy to pay you back for finding a SQL fiddle site that supports both temp tables and MS SQL :-D
 
5:20 PM
I've seen OT a lot of times. Does it just mean Off-Topic or is it short for something else?
 
OT == Off Topic
 
(Or it can also mean Out There, the place we never go to)
 
@Kyll Outside?
 
@NathanOliver shhh
 
Do programmers just work at home and never go out? I hope not. Fresh air is better than inside air (even at home).
 
5:25 PM
Sometimes I slept for a couple weeks at work yeah
This was a mean crunch
 
@Kyll What do you do at work that requires crunching?
 
I'm not sure I remember
 
@S.S.Anne He had to gather all the nuts before winter really set in ;)
 
@S.S.Anne Storing nuts for the Winter
Jinx!
 
NINJA'D
 
5:27 PM
You guys are
 
in sync?
Let's just complete
 
Nathan got it, I can tell by the facepalm I heard from accross the ocean
 
rene has added an event to this room's schedule.
 
5:32 PM
ooh, a meeting
 
A room meeting has been scheduled for 21:00 UTC (4pm EST) on Wed, Feb 12 to discuss a potential network-wide strike
 
waffles
 
why is "wtf" on comments not considered profanity?
 
Sam
Plop
 
Pl-WOT
 
5:42 PM
Holy cow, it's Sam
 
Sam <3
 
Sam
How's it going? I've heard a lot's changed recently.
 
... you have no idea
 
@Sam There's a lot going on, but it hit a new high when Shog9 got fired.
 
Will the bots be disabled during the possible strike?
 
Sam
5:45 PM
Yeah, I saw that. That was really a sad moment.
 
Closey will be disabled, yes
 
Sam
You guys got her running again? :o
 
As to the other bots, that's up to SOBotics and Charcoal
 
(making myself pingable here)
 
@Sam lol nah. We've talked about it off and on
 
Sam
5:48 PM
Ah right
 
Well I wanted to look into it
But then everything went to... bad
And then worse
 
sup
er, plop
 
This is 2017
We're back in 2017!
 
Sam
@Kyll Yeah, the codebase is sort of a mess. IIRC, I left it midway through an upgrade to .net core.
Hey gunr! :D
 
sam! long time!
hello to kyll as well
 
Sam
5:50 PM
Yeah it's been a couple years at least
 
Plop gunr :3
 
man, we almost have the whole gang back together!
 
Yeah, I guess you all like doing nothing for a week ;)
 
ah, so you had a look at my meeting agenda
5
 
lol
 
Sam
@Kyll Missed opportunity for a request.
3
 
If anyone has any questions about the strike letter or the general effort, wider than SOCVR, I'm the one mostly organizing it, and I'm open to any questions. (It might take a bit for me to get back to you, though, especially over the next 20 hours.)
10
 
6:48 PM
nice to see so many italicized users again
@Sam Feel free to come back and pick up where you left off ;-)
@Scratte Yep, it was seen as somewhat condescending even as a 'consolation' prize. It was replaced in part by the series of badges Lifejacket and Lifeboat
 
Sam
@TylerH I might, depending on what happens after this strike.
 
which is kind of weird because those are answer badges and tumbleweed was a question badge
 
@TylerH I've just completely lost any interest in creating a hopeless Question now :(
 
lol
good
always strive for hopeless-less questions!
 
7:06 PM
less is more
 
@Das_Geek Unless it's SASS
 
@CallumWatkins The UI for review bans is not very good. You were supposed to have been presented with the following message:
> Your review on stackoverflow.com/review/triage/25319122 wasn't helpful. "Requires Editing" should only be used when other community users (like you) are able to edit/format the question into a better shape. If a question is unsalvagable and/or can only be improved by the author, please flag/vote to close or delete instead. For more information, see meta.stackoverflow.com/q/389148.
 
@Machavity ooh, didn't think of that one
 
As others have pointed out, this was a manual review ban, issued by a moderator, as described in the Meta link. There's a lot of confusion about what the "Requires Editing" button means. It does not mean that the original author needs to edit the question. It only means that the community can edit the question into shape. If the edit needs to come from the original author (e.g., because the question is missing information), then you should choose "Unsalvageable".
 
the UI for review in general is not very good. It doesn't show answers for queue items that are questions, it doesn't show other answers for queue items that are answers, and you can't up/down vote the post in half the queues.
 
7:12 PM
Users aren't presented with anything on a review ban. They have to manually adjust the link in the address bar to get the message.
 
also that, apparently
 
Or go through the individual reviews, but I doubt new reviewers are even aware that they're suppose to do that with every single review they've done.
 
@Scratte Or open the top bar icon in a new tab.
 
@CodyGray That works :) I hadn't thought of that when I was desperate. I'll see if it also works on my next ban.
 
@CodyGray Are you able to explain the 8 day ban though? Is that length standard?
 
7:25 PM
@Scratte Hopefully you won't get banned again :)
 
It definitely works. The key is that you need to visit the /review page. You can either navigate to it manually, or you can click the icon to open in a new tab, which will land you to the same page. The bug is that the dropdown you see after clicking on the review ban in the title bar doesn't show you the review ban message/explanation. It just says "there are no queues available to you now" (paraphrasing).
 
@Das_Geek: I did just fail a test-review, so.. I'm not doing review until I understand why :) That'll keep me from getting banned.
 
@CallumWatkins I...can't actually. That's pretty long for your first ban (and this was, in fact, your first ban ever).
 
Or even when you're not banned and have done everything. See my feature request on Meta
 
I'm guessing that perhaps the mod who applied this ban picked the same duration for all users who clicked "Requires Editing", and several of the others have been warned before about the exact same thing.
Or it may have just been an oversight.
If you can tell me that you've read the Meta post and understand the purpose of the "requires editing" button, I'm happy to lift your ban, @CallumWatkins.
 
7:28 PM
@CodyGray It's probably a holdover from the old review UI, where you had to visit the /review page to access the queues at all. Might be worth raising on meta.
 
@Mithical Oh, trust me, it has been raised on Meta. Ad nauseam.
 
@CodyGray I'm certainly aware of the correct meaning of the buttons now yes. It was foolish of me to start reviewing before reading the meanings in depth
 
@CodyGray Sorry if this is the wrong place to bring it up but I'm kind of passionate about disentangling the yarn but no moderator seems to come across this request.
 
+1 for making the UI more clear
 
Personally, I called out the handling of review bans in general on the SO developer survey about things that aren't super welcoming to new folks trying to learn how things work.
 
7:30 PM
@CallumWatkins Yeah...this is an especially confusing feature, so I'm sympathetic. I complained a long time ago about it, and did manage to get the descriptive text changed so at least if you read what's right there on the page, you should make the right decision.
At any rate, I've lifted your ban, so you should now be able to review, @CallumWatkins.
@robsiemb Meh, I hope that doesn't get misinterpreted as "we need to remove bans because they are unwelcoming".
Worth pointing out that there is a UX team currently studying how to improve /review.
 
@CodyGray Thank you for your help. Who gets to make those kinds of changes to the site if not the moderators anyway?
 
@CodyGray Certainly that wasn't the intent of my comment, but to new people, they certianly feel much more like punishment than training/assistance (the general theme that meta describes them as). The bare-bones UI does not help.
 
@CallumWatkins Staff members, people employed by Stack Exchange as developers. Moderators like me are just regular community members who have been elected to serve as moderators. Moderators do have a lot of power to do things on the site, including deleting posts, banning users, etc., but we don't have developer privileges and can't make changes to how the site works/looks.
 
@CodyGray Well I certainly hope to see the company working closer with the community in future. There does seem to be a very large disconnect.
 
> Well I certainly hope to see the company working closer with the community in future. There does seem to be a very large disconnect.
- Meta. The last 3 years. Possibly longer.
 
7:34 PM
@CallumWatkins Indeed, there is quite a large disconnect, and it seems to be growing exponentially as of late. I'm still here because I still hold out hope for things to improve, or at least stop getting worse.
 
@CodyGray I commend you for your resilience, and thank you for your work on the site. Without people like you it would be nothing.
 
@CodyGray well you guys do have some capability to edit the help pages for your specific stacks
though I also wouldn't be surprised if SO is singled out as not having that power due to it being so important for the company to be able to directly control
 
@TylerH The only thing we can edit is the hero at the top of the Help Center landing page, on which Sam asked for suggestions recently.
 
@robsiemb Even it I understand the questions or answers, I'm not sure what to do. I think that's the real problem. I see most posts as corner cases. If I see a post on python I'll skip it right away, spending less than 5 seconds. All the material I've read are about clear cases.
 
I'm not sure about other sites, but SO moderators cannot edit any of the Help Center pages. If I understood correctly what one of the CMs said the other day, neither can the CMs. This requires developer privileges.
@CallumWatkins Thank you. I agree with that last statement, and that's why leaving feels like the nuclear option. I'm not ready to invoke the nuclear option.
 
7:39 PM
@Scratte Basically, the only thing I learned from the review bans (other than that sometimes mods do get it wrong -- and are willing to admit mistakes when they do :) is that the advice at the top of all the how-to-review guides about being super aggressive about skipping is spot-on. Skip if you are ever unsure.
 
@robsiemb Hey now! I've only gotten it wrong 6-8 times!
It's just that they always end up on Meta...
 
@CodyGray I definitely appreciate that you quickly reversed my ban when you did :) But having to post to meta about it is a super high bar.
 
@CodyGray yes, "some"
 
@Scratte I guess the other thing I'd say to new reviewers is that I found First Posts and Triage some of the hardest queues to review. Naturally, they are the ones you get put into first.
 
@robsiemb I get that. Skip skip skip skip skip skip skip.. maybe.. no .. hmm.. ?!?.. skip skip skip.. and half of those I understand the content. It would be helpful to me if there was more guidance on the corner cases.
 
7:41 PM
on RPG.SE at least I've had luck with them changing that (or something very similar) along with the placeholder text in the comment box upon request (though they may indeed have forwarded it to devs to make the change)
 
Maybe there should be a more formal way of disputing moderator decisions, rather than resorting to cluttering meta or trying to find someone in chat.
 
@robsiemb Not really... There isn't much other way of contacting us. Meta is really the best way of hitting a moderator with a rolled up newspaper.
 
@CodyGray It was this page that they edited on RPG.SE rpg.stackexchange.com/help/on-topic - they added the bullet point about "Social or interpersonal issues" at my prodding
 
@CallumWatkins Meta kinda is the formal way of disputing moderator actions
 
@TylerH Yeah, that would have all had to have been forwarded to devs, especially changes to the comment box placeholder text. It's worth pointing out that we used to have a CM with dev access who was ever-so-accessible to us...
 
7:43 PM
@CodyGray Exactly my point -- its basically the only way to contact a mod and better understand the ban (and how I found out about SOCVR) -- but in terms of being welcoming -- posting to the entirety of the harshist audience on SO that you think an elected mod made a mistake is super intimidating. Plus, almost all of these posts are told (justifiably) "no, you're wrong the mod was right, go away".
 
@Mithical A new public post for every dispute seems excessive to me
 
@CallumWatkins Meta and chat are the informal ways to dispute moderator actions. The formal way is to use the "contact us" link at the bottom of every page (in the footer) to send a message to Stack Exchange staff. They can override any decision we make.
 
@CodyGray Interesting, that's something I'd never considered before
 
I thought meta was formal
 
@robsiemb I'm somewhat of the opinion that, my glaring mistakes notwithstanding, most of the decisions made by moderators are correct and that there should be a high bar in going to Meta to complain.
 
7:45 PM
I agree ^
 
@robsiemb You should get points for posting there. I wrote a very long user story about my experience as a reviewer that I'll never ever post here.
 
Mods are elected by the masses based on rigorous standards
and their longform answers to tough questions
 
Meta is both formal and informal. It's formal in the sense that you need to actually present evidence and make a case that the moderator decision was wrong, and it's formal in the sense that it's highly visible. But it's also informal in the sense that you're going to get a general audience, including the moderators themselves, as opposed to your complaints going directly to staff.
 
@TylerH yyyeah, I don't think so
 
@CodyGray Certainly I expect that mods get it right most of the time.
 
7:46 PM
Also, huzzah, SQL success dbfiddle.uk/… even though it feels quite dirty to use two temp tables for this (don't look, @rene, you'll be ashamed of my work)
 
looking
 
Going to Meta is kind of like standing up during a general "open house" and saying, hey, I think you guys are doing the wrong thing. Using "contact us" is like going directly to the police and reporting someone for committing a crime.
 
And here I thought Meta was more torches and pitchforks. Turns out Meta also has tea time. Who knew?
 
@CodyGray That said, the bar to using the contact us link (private) is lower. Like @CallumWatkins I also didn't realize it was a way to appeal moderator bans (most of the docs that I found said go to meta to contest bad review audits and bans)
 
@robsiemb FYI the "Contact Us" link goes to the company, not to the elected moderators.
 
7:49 PM
Right. What Tyler said. It's like going directly to our boss to file a formal complaint about us. So, in that sense, you can complain about any action taken by a moderator using "contact us", including a ban, but we won't ever see it, and we won't be able to reverse our own decision.
 
@TylerH can't you use a CTE? Or is this supposed to be really running on MS Access?
 
Also...not to discourage anyone from using it, but the lead time on handling those is pretty long, and staff is pretty short-staffed, so you're almost certainly going to get a faster, better response on Meta if it's something that a mod can do directly without needing staff.
 
@rene I don't know what a CTE is and also yes this is for MS Access (so I hope it supports the SQL I've used...)
 
It's really meant for more stuff like, "I think this moderator is abusing their privileges, and here's a list of evidence that I've compiled..."
So that complaint can be raised anonymously, and doesn't get seen by the people you're complaining about.
 
@TylerH Okay, then a Common Table Expression is not going to help, no.
 
7:51 PM
So, for example, if you saw me repeatedly deleting all SQL questions/chat messages because they're annoying, then that'd be a good use of "contact us".
 
What is wrong with SQL?
I see myself out
 
As a counter example, if you saw me kick Cody from the room, that would not be a good use of "contact us".
 
Nah, to complain about ROs, just raise a mod flag. :-)
 
@rene I guess I should read up on those anyway. Now that I see the syntax, I saw Gordon Linoff using one in some answer where he also said temp tables shouldn't be used unless you want to re-use the table results in another query somewhere.
 
@TylerH Access won't support that, though... No full outer joins, no temp tables...
 
7:55 PM
I figure knows a thing or two about SQL
@ErikA aw poo
 
If you want, I can rewrite that to a single Access pivot without CTEs/subqueries/anything and that auto-operates for all years present, though
 
@ErikA I mean, if you are interested, I certainly won't turn you down
...unexpected r/nocontext
 
@Machavity Thanks, that somehow got regular deleted.
 
sorry
Force of habit when I see crap with 2 delvotes, by the time the mouse tap hit my ears I realized I goofed. Then I figured Cody will just have to fix it... :P
 
grumble, grumble
 
8:07 PM
we did give you a mop the first day ;)
 
That old thing? It wore out and fell apart within the first week.
 
mop? Not a power washer?
 
I have mops delivered by the case now.
I recently installed a power washer as well.
 
Wow they weren't kidding when they said mods don't have good enough tools
 
Reoccurring Amazon order?
 
8:08 PM
"Alexa, need some more mops!"
 
@TylerH Here you go: pastebin.com/ifLmYuRL
 
@ErikA there is no upvote button on that answer ....
 
> Not a member of Pastebin yet? Sign Up, it unlocks many cool features!
Is one of those "cool features" an upvote button, I wonder?
 
Hmm... Code-only answer, that should get an auto-downvote and unwelcoming comment, right?
 
I like how the paste bin mimics the awesome layout capabilities of the MS Access query designer when in SQL mode ...
 
8:11 PM
It turns the paste bin into a box. Warning: A cat might take over your box
 
@rene Worse, there's no close button
 
 
@ErikA heh... pastebin is blocked at my workplace. Any chance you could throw it into one of the inputs of jsfiddle or sqlfiddle or something?
Our web filter for some reason classifies it as online-storage-and-backup
 
@tink This is why I don't have an Alexa.
 
@TylerH Of course, now with a free syntax error on SQL server :)
 
8:19 PM
woot
checking out now
 
8:33 PM
@CodyGray Hahaaha =}
Hmmmm .... Shell use? Programming? stackoverflow.com/questions/60176868/… ... I'd be temped to CV that.
 
@tink agreed, that’s not in any programming context, so it’s off topic. But it was sufficiently well asked that I migrated it to Unix/Linux.
@Das_Geek Ah, the other Alexa. While I’m in the anti-Alexa spirit...
 
@CodyGray Yeah, all that user's content (even the stuff without spam links) is 100% copy-pasted from other articles
 
Ah, missed that. Okay, cleaned up. Kind of annoying to clean up that mess on mobile.
 
8:48 PM
More like: it's commendable that you're as efficient as you are while using mobile
 
Right? It’s amazing anyone can use these keyboardless slabs.
 
If anyone is bored, I sort of have questions about an audit.
 
Okay, that sounds riveting.
 
Should we phrase our answers to the sort-of question as questions themselves?
 
If your question is “why are audits broken?” or “why do audits suck so much?”, I’m afraid I won’t be able to help.
@Machavity I just plan to give sort-of answers.
 
8:59 PM
Standard Meta protocol. Gotcha
 
@CodyGray I had to check google for riveting (Wholly absorbing or engrossing one's attention; fascinating) I'm sensing a bit of irony :)
 
lol
 
But no. It's an actual review. Very concrete, no policy discussion. But I have 10 entire sentences, so I'd be cluttering the chat with them
 
@Scratte You will rarely go wrong reading my comments with a sense of irony. I may have also meant “riveting” in the sense of “almost as much fun as having permanent metal fasteners driven into us”.
 
9:03 PM
@rene I thought that was only for non-serious stuff. I'll try :)
 
this is chat. Everything is non-serious ...
2
Only this chat room happens to have lots of rulez
 
@CodyGray There's noway for me know how pierced you are already
 
You’ve seen my sharply piercing wit
(and overinflated sense of self?)
@rene too subtle
 
Dutch approach ...
 
@ErikA I lol'd at AccessRequiresANameThatWillLiterallyDoNothing
 
9:14 PM
@rene This is the first I’ve heard of the Dutch being subtle
 
thanks
 
9:44 PM
I found a good old post without recent activity which is still attracting views and votes. Is this the sort of thing I can ask a duplicate for if there is a strong, more informative canonical?
I'm certain it would be helpful to readers to be directed to the canonical, but socvr's FAQ says that cv-pls is for bad posts which also have recent activity.
(close queue is huge even with 3-vote threshold, so without coordination from SOCVR or a meta post, it's liable to remain open forever)
 
@CertainPerformance You could share the link to discuss this and totally not as a
 
The SOCVR rules are trying to ensure that we spend our limited resources in a constructive way. If the post has no recent activity, it’s probably not causing any issues and thus not worth our attention. So I’d say the rules would probably exclude a cv-pls in this case.
But not because the post isn’t “bad”. Plenty of duplicates aren’t “bad”, but still need to be closed as a dupe.
As Erik says, you could still spark up a discussion here regarding the post, if you have a genuine question and/or you think there’s a strong public interest in doing something. But you need to use this sparingly.
 
@CertainPerformance Not sure I follow... you found a good old post that you want to close?
 
There’s also the possibility of a moderator flag, if you think there’s a compelling interest and the normal mechanism is not likely to work, if you justify that in the flag.
 
9:59 PM
BTW @CodyGray, this question you closed 11 days ago is at risk of being deleted. Just notifying you since it has 44K views and a few good answers
 
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