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15:00
bahaha
"A sweet kid, wouldn't harm a fly" - everybody in the neighborhood
I'd trust bb with... ah... erm... I'd trust him with... You know what, nevermind that
So @Madara when are you going to resign?
@Nyakouai You can trust me with your life or something if you want
@ballBreaker Haven't quite decided yet. I still want to see how this ends up.
I still remember when you got elected 😃
Yeah quite a mess since then
@ballBreaker 2 days after I got elected, I dropped down hard on the Lounge :D
I had quite the rocky start.
15:04
hahaha I seem to vaguely remember that
I held the most "downvoted complaint against a mod" on meta for a good long while, maybe I still hold that title.
Was that when the lounge got frozen for a bit?
@MadaraUchiha Don't understand. Where you the mod targeted by the complaint, or the one that emitted it?
Some of us here are a wee bit green behin the ears
@Nyakouai I was complained against, as in, my actions were challenged.
@ballBreaker That was when the lounge pretty much got disbanded
I remember
15:06
Right.. I memba
-188
Q: Request for community attention on a moderator's behavior

NoobleIt has come to a handful of people's attention that at least some of the newly elected moderators might not be exactly up to challenge. Here's a message that very clearly demonstrates this incompetence, that was a result of a particular argument that appeared in one of the SO chatrooms: Madar...

remember remember the 5th of november
Got it! :D
@TimCastelijns oh snap!
that's today!
Thanks for the friendly reminder
dammit
15:07
Did you had an healthy breakfast?
now i have to watch the movie again
shame on you all.
Can't take down a corrupt government on an empty stomach
You have to shave your head in solidarity
20 hours ago, by Tim Castelijns
Friendly reminder to watch v for Vendetta tomorrow
You first. Pic or it didn't happen
15:08
damn I gotta watch it tomorrow too?!
well yeah
how can you remember the 5th before the 6th?
"Remember Remember the 5th before the 6th of November" doesn't quite have the same ring to it
shortly-lived memory helps you rmeember it the same day. multiple times.
so what if I say
Guy fawkes the chinese government
is that okay
It has a double meaning, so it's smart
and therefore I am smart
seems airtight to me, nobody could punish you for that
15:14
I have to write a user manual of something I did...a year ago?
😱😱
ProTip: If you don't know what it does, the people asking you to write the manual certainly don't know what it does
I don't remember all the steps I did TT^TT
Just pad it with vague, somewhat correct statements
It's an user manual, not a dev doc ;)
They want a "If I had to do the same stuff you did, how should I do it?" Manual
15:16
Oh... so yeah, you're screwed
Unless you take Raghav advice
"Find out where I'm working now and offer me 5x my current pay to come in as a consultant and do it for you, 10 hour minimum"
look up your browser history from that day and copy all the links
This is why I never delete my bash history
And why I need to start maintaining a log book
It's my seventh most important upgrade after exams are done
@RaghavSood Chance is, she still works at the same place
Yes, but they're only gonna use the manual when she's gone
While W0MP exists there, they'll just pass the task on
I've written tons of documentation, no one ever reads it unless they can't reach me
Which is rare
Even though it would be 10x faster
15:19
I tried to convince my client-side manager to update the tools we use to something from this century
Told me "Write a doc backing up your demand, and I'll consider it"
and triple stamp it
Write a doc with your resignation letter and find a better job
Deliver a nice, clean doc... a month and a half ago
It is still being thoroughly crumpled at the bottom of his bag
When someone on my team wants to use fancy new tech, they always get to do it
Mostly because I'm the only one on my team
user image
2
me approving change requests
Fancy new tech, ah. I asked that we may have a git and a somewhat reliable soft to use it... instead of a fucked up, 14yo SVN
Still using C++ 98 cause "It's stable, we don't know for sure for the new releases"
15:21
hisses
Hisses at 98 or C++?
You should write another doc that talks about purely analog computers, and how they are clearly the better choice since they predate C++98, and digital computing in general
Haven't seen that one in a while
i'm as meme-outdated as c++ 98
15:23
I might consider it on my free time... Which I have in vurtually infinite amount at work...
Aaaanyway. Doc are useless, don't write it, they won't read it
If they read it, they'll complain anyway, sooooo...
Good docs are useful
I read mine all the time
The others don't
But they will
I shall make them
I have to write it 'cause they have been asking for it xD
2029: Soodnet has arise. The world robotic domination is complete. Everywhere, humans are forced to read Raghav's doc. For most, it's a matter of survival. For the rest of us... The rest of us died with honor.
There is no honor in what most people hanging out in an Android room do
(Don't take me seriously when I argue against doc, please. Docs are magnificent and the world would be a better place if people would just fix or just write their goddam doc)
15:30
docs would not be needed if there were no people
5
is that what you're trying to say
Sounds like a good solution, allow me to help
open the window
15:46
@RaghavSood the best docs are the java docs
straight to the point, good naming, you already see at first glance what you're looking for
Go has great docs too, better than Java I'd say
Java's are good, but can get quite verbose or omit certain details
Go's work very well, sync up with community packages, and you can always jump to source, which works great for go since it is very easy to read snippets without having to understand the entire package
java docs don't even have syntax highlighting
So no distractions while reading
16:02
you're saying you can't be distracted from reading if you don't read
Nice XD
16:14
Hiya CF, cM!!!!!!!! :D
sup wompy cm crabs and a nya
Heyo, Womps!
Eating mini chocolate bars until I decide what I want for lunch
you should just have like ten more of em
solid lunch right there
hmm he could use eat a crab for lunch tho
I'll still be hungry. On number 4 now
16:20
hmm lol crabs message got removed
and still survived?
niceeeee
I might have to go snag some mini chocolates now too
so many in the office rn
No offense meant, but this chat would lose some interest without bb
Way less garbage to talk about
xD
what about cM then?
Lets just be glad there is no automatic garbage collection then :D
I don't know, cM only greeted Womp
16:22
where is maukerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
So I decided to be mad for no better reason
Plus, I got to go (f*cking finally!!)
See you all
cya tomorrow man
Bye~~
~(^o^~)
16:23
I hate writting this stuff so much
The manual on how to code your code?
Page 1: be me
I wrote it for you! all done :D
outsource it to some cheapo country?
Okay so you know how pets can sometimes be a reflection of their owners (and vice versa) ?
they can?
This is my cat, Jabroni
16:27
Relax everyone...lunch was figured out for me by a coworker
Unfortunately, it's not a coding manual
it's a "Create your own visual studio project installer"
or die trying
I get a slack message (knowing he's in some finance meeting) "Come quickly to <conf room x>" I get there and he has a Chinese menu up on the big monitor in that room. lmao
@ballBreaker so cute
That's how they warm you up to voluntarily attending the termination meeting for yourself, cM
You're writing a manual on how to create a VS project?
16:29
@W0MP3R He's a bit psycho hehe, but so so adorable
Like I would be so lucky, Raghav
not a VS project, but how to create the setup of that VS project with Visual Studio
oh
that doesn't sound any better
(it's not hard, but I have to remember all the stuff that I did for the setup that works)
right
That's why I always plan to write that stuff as I go
It's much easier that way
I mean, I don't but I always plan out to do it that way
16:33
I knew I had to do a manual of "How to install the windows service" but I didn't know I had to do the "How to create the setup" TT^TT
oh this is some bullshit
HEY
Wompy is working HARD
are you fucking kidding me? They deleted the meesage
I think thats quite unfair
So now we can't criticize nazi germany? Because someone may get offended
So you're mad that the thing you said to star enough that they have to remove it got removed?
The message deleted, in context, is showing our disapproval for something condemned by the UN. There is no other side to it. No one is arguing pro concentration camps.
16:45
You missed my point
@codeMagic I am mad because its bullshit they removed it. And i predicted it because so many US companies have no backbone
Apparently including SE
I understand why you're mad.
I hate to pull the jew card, but especially since I'm Jewish its even more hurtful
I think the reality on why it was deleted is a bit different than what you're suggesting
Yeah, i'm reading a bit more now
still stupid
but fine
16:55
Oh, it's dumb forsure
some poor chinese person must have seen it and flagged it
I don't blame them, they probably don't know any better due to the censorship
Tiananmen square? whats that?
In other news, i have a shit ton of hw
Does anyone know where firefoxe's spell check engine comes from?
Time to go~~
Cya later people!!! 😀
@MadaraUchiha Can you please clarify this? You deleted the message and explained that it was because of the vulgarity, and then posted and pinned a comment saying not to have political discussions. I come here and moderate this room every day and so I need more clarification. Should we be preventing people from saying 4 letter words? Or from talking about politics? Which is it?
17:12
@JBis what is what? No idea what you're talking about man
He says later on that it's the context, so whatever vague understanding of the issue that gives you
He's talking about how the Chinese government have hidden the Tianamen square massacre from most of their population through censorship.
yes I was joining in on the meme of "didnt' happen"
sorry haven't had all my coffee yet this morning
17:22
lol
I've got an awesome app idea that y'all better not steal
steals idea
Well you better share it so we can't steal it
Elevator Pitch: macOS spellcheck sucks. I create an extension for macos with a new spell checker using hunspell
I'm fairly confident people will buy it
cause macos spellcheck sucks so much
can we pre order?
17:25
lol sure
I'm definitely stealing it
Anyone know C++?
what is the pre order bonus?
do we get like the complete dictionary, or will there be DLCs?
@TimCastelijns Your username is added to the dictionary by default
do I have to pay extra for wing dings
17:26
room topic changed to Android: Sometimes we even talk about Android. New users are required to read the rules (room-15.github.io). We have a blog. Remember that this is a chat room, not a helpdesk. [android] [cats] [circleavatars] [cyanavatars] [java] [kotlin] [o/] [xkcd]
I'm legit gonna make it but i i need to learn C++ first so may take me a bit
C++ isn't so bad
You'll do great
@CarlAnderson I have clarified a bit after the pinned message, but in general, keep things civil, always, and especially when politics are involved.
And no, it's not that you aren't allowed to criticize china (or anyone). I've done it myself on various occasions here on the network. It's that if you do, please keep things professional and civil
Else things go downhill very fast, and we go from "off-topic but interesting and harmless" to "off-topic and with namecalling"
And yes, @JBis I've seen the flag, read up the conversation, and decided to delete the post without suspension.
If you think I acted in the wrong, please do tell. This isn't a threat, I'm genuinely interested in hearing your opinion.
You can suspend me if you want, I promise I won't learn anything from it
17:32
I just think in context, it wasn't name calling
Are there any meta posts or stack overflow posts that you can point to where as a room owner I would have known to moderate this without your intervention?
Nobody came on the network said "fuck china" and left. That would be problematic. We were talking about all the problems with the Chinese government and instead of listing our discontent for everything china is doing we summed it up with "fuck china"
@CarlAnderson Nothing so specific. It's a combination of the "Be Nice" policy and the "Beware of political/religious discussions" unwritten Rules Of The Internet.
there was an implicit "Chinese government"
I'm not insinuating that you've tried to offend the Chinese people. It's clear to me to whom it was referring to.
17:34
So why is it a problem?
I am saying that political (and otherwise loaded/high drama potential) discussions are fine as long as they are civil.
When they cease being civil (yes, "fuck china" counts as not being civil), they stop being harmless.
I find it quite frustrating to have to guess at what's appropriate to moderate and what isn't, and I don't agree that this statement was an issue. I starred it myself out of the frustration at the way the Chinese government (and it's lucrative market) has been able to bend weak-willed US companies to comply with its censorship.
It's not a "don't say "fuck"", and it's not a "don't criticize China", it's combination of both those things. When discussing topics you know to be loaded and emotionally charged, please try to keep it civil. That's all I'm asking.
@MadaraUchiha that makes very little sense to me
mostly every company will bend to china, too big market to ignore
17:37
If i said "Fuck Nazi Germany" or "Fuck ISIS" are you gonna remove that too?
Ok. Well I disagree but understand how random drive-by visitors who don't bother to understand the context could end up flagging the message, which forces your hand.
There's no clever heuristic here to tell you "this is OK, this is not" use your common sense on what's acceptable in a public. Also, there's a reason I only deleted the message and felt like the flags should not be validated and the user suspended. It's not a "OMG EVIL BASTARD DIE" sort of situation.
I think he would be just as likely to remove it, but the odds of someone flagging it are quite low
@ColdFire Luckily, I am not every company. I am, in fact, not any company, either.
@JBis I'd say those are inappropriate, but less charged. Also, much less actual.
haha i was talking about companies not individual
17:38
The flagging system doesn't allow for dialog with the flagger, and thus in my mind it's a poor system, but it's the system we have.
Honestly reflecting on those, I'd probably not remove such messages, nor would I "fuck cancer" or "fuck terrorists"
@CarlAnderson Agreed.
Well that's retarded
Ok, so its the possibility of people getting offended that you are removing it
17:39
What if some Nazi or ISIS terrorist gets offended
@JBis It's the possibility of incurring drama.
there was much less drama before you remove it...
@JBis That's true. But remember that it was flagged.
It's easy to compare my action to the null case of "nothing happening" and pointing out there's more drama this way. Compare it to the hypothetical case of, say, someone coming here and starting to defend China.
Did you read the context it was in before removing?
Especially once we said "fuck china"
@JBis I have, yes.
17:41
Let them defend China and be crucified by fact and reason
@JBis Yes, civilly
Again "fuck" is just a summary. Its a four letter word instead of an 8 page essay on the issue.
btw we have said fuck c something more times than we have deleted now
niceeee
> In conclusion, I think we all agree that China sucks
Let's not heat up the mood for no reason, and actually stay on point if we wanna debate
17:43
> We all disagree on China's bullying behavior
Any of those would have been better, in my opinion.
And while they are not single 4 letter words, I think the extra length is acceptable for keeping things civil.
So its the fact we used "fuck" because that's too fueled
whatever i mean its done
i disagree but you are mod so you get the final say
@JBis Not necessarily. This isn't a Facebook group.
my emotional side may be getting the better of me in this situation and making me blind to the points you are making
If I were the mod, and I'd have the final say, I'd just suspend you all for backtalking to me and be done with it, like I've seen happen in so many other communities before.
This is actually a topic that I greatly care about. That power is transparent, and that I am expected to defend my actions if they are challenged.
@JBis it would be a good idea to take a break and cool off.
17:46
@JBis I appreciate you saying that 😀 Thank you.
And I say that while agreeing with your anger and frustration.
Well its just frustrating that China seems to get better treatment than everyone else deemed "bad" merely for their economic influence and size
Yes, i will take a time out for a bit.
@MadaraUchiha Jumping here to correct this, it was very rude and used the f-word indeed, but it wasn't about china, rather about their govt :)
@JBis Well, I can assure you that the fact that China is bullying everyone into submission had no part in my decision. I am, in fact, very much against their oppression and behaviors.
13 mins ago, by Madara Uchiha
I'm not insinuating that you've tried to offend the Chinese people. It's clear to me to whom it was referring to.
@MadaraUchiha Ah okay, I missed this I'm on mobile, maybe you could ask SE to give us a nice mobile app for chat? It's maybe a good justification on why it's needed :D
17:49
xD
SE isn't going to invest anything in chat unless it's causing them bad PR at this point
@MadaraUchiha one could think that the Android room could use their expertise to develop a mobile app for chat if it was an effort driven by SE :D
@MehdiB. You could also open source it
user11867329
Anyone used SpiceWorks?
17:52
@MehdiB. hey it wasn't rude
don't be mean to me
@MadaraUchiha Yeah but as far I know, all the attempts were quite painful because it was more reverse engineering work (their websockets) so if it was a joined effort we could work with something more structured
Maybe China can fund the SE chat app
@MehdiB. Yeah...
Don't hold your breath.
(God dammit I've fat fingered and deleted my own message instead of quoting it)
hahaha yeah chat has been abandoned a long time ago
17:54
If anything, with the direction the company is going, I would be surprised if they don't can the chat all together
@CarlAnderson killing off chat more likely at that point
Yes, I fully expect at some point this entire system just goes offline without notice.
@MadaraUchiha What sane company refuses qualified free labor working under their very capable management :D
Next time drama hits the fan in meta
"our moderators don't have enough resources since everyone is quitting, the chat is going to be temporarily unavailable for the foreseeable future"
I'm out for a bit. Back later.
17:57
@ballBreaker Because there is no Devops maintaining the micro instance on which it's running, jk they probably have good infra :D

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