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wim
12:01 AM
you type all that?
I just have an alias "3"
and "2" for python 2.7
oh my god why is travis-ci so damn slow for pypy
my CPython build is done in under 2 minutes, but pypy took 8 minutes, and pypy3 is still running 9 minutes and counting...
 
@wim I like my habits
I prided myself in having a 3.7 when my system was still 3.5 :D
 
wim
I think I will remove it from the test matrix, it's too slow and nobody really uses pypy anyway do they ...??
 
12:21 AM
yay I'm free!
 
boop
 
maybe not so free... but yay! :)
thanks Andras and team :)
my first act as new RO is to go to bed as it's 1:30am in the morning... :p
 
tell me about it, past 2:30 here! ;)
@JonClements \o/
 
\o/
meh whatever... see you later today
 
12:38 AM
Have fun being free!
 
I will... I reckon I might be able to catch my tail now... will give it a chase when I'm not so tired... I'm sure I'm gonna get it this time!
 
wim
I thought you already were a RO
 
 
1 hour later…
2:10 AM
@Boris There's also the PYTHONPATH environment variable
 
 
2 hours later…
3:50 AM
congratulations * 2 @JonClements
 
4:41 AM
@JonClements wow.....3 already. That's crazy
 
 
1 hour later…
6:01 AM
*rubs eyes* Jon's name isn't blue...? Am I still asleep and having a bad dream? *pinches himself* Ouch. Oh. Dang.
 
6:25 AM
Aug 29 at 8:27, by Arne
@MisterMiyagi does Union[Type[BaseException], 'ellipsis'] work?
 
I wonder if I've been misusing typing.Mapping, because after an upgrade to 3.7 functools.singledispatch stopped working with it.
 
@Arne oh, thanks!
 
@JonClements it feels weird to be congratulating you here, but congrats on being free :) Even puppy powah has its limits, best to keep some in reserve :)
 
 
1 hour later…
7:37 AM
hmmm epgs = list(searchIP(list(reader), ip))
The function called yeilds a string, I want to test if anything was returned...
Ah I can check for length of the string? :)
 
@wim we do, but I've never had a compatibility issue (other than python version) in the last 2 years. It's primary purpose in our CI is to keep people from sneaking in compiled-only dependencies.
 
 
2 hours later…
9:21 AM
In the gist below, I have a mininet topology (irrelevant to the question, but there for clarification), in which I am running a client and server code. I switched to using threads to run multiple client instances to get read times which I place in popens, but I get no read times! Before using threads, I placed the code for popen without the thread and it worked fine! gist.github.com/ryankshah/83608fd8c1c0cc2b900d5ad5341825b0
My aim is to constantly run client programs and record the output time (as it would with the popen) until the program finishes
 
10:07 AM
cbg
 
10:20 AM
cbg
 
cbg
 
Another exciting day at work today. The staff car park has decided to sink... and it's built on top of a railway tunnel. The site's now full of engineers. Bridges round here are not to be trusted.
 
Do you work in a city?
 
@roganjosh youch
 
@Simon Out in Derbyshire, it's an old industrial town
@JonClements It's the main line I used to use between Sheffield and Manc
 
10:27 AM
I can say from experience, anything out of staff parking involves a 15minute walk, and usually a pay meter.
 
You've reminded me - I should at some point get my rear and gear and go see some friends in Castleford
 
@Simon well as long as it's metric...
 
@AndrasDeak Thanks for reminding me I'm British but can't still can't spell
 
anytime ;)
 
10:56 AM
is there some dupe target for "defining" methods on the instance? stackoverflow.com/questions/58449360/…
 
hammered
 
ty, there were some strange replies showing up already
 
11:25 AM
alright, I just realised this is extremely difficult to explain correctly. :/
 
12:02 PM
@biggi_ grid and pack are equally valid geometry managers
If you want to put a single widget in a window, pack is probably the idiomatic choice, but I don't think there's a practical difference
 
@AnttiHaapala importlib.resources is bad? I tried watching youtu.be/ZsGFU2qh73E but I'm having a hard time following everything, is there a writeup somewhere in how far it's lacking?
 
lol, now that I have a working script, I'm like "meeeeeeeeeeeeh I can't be bothered"
 
Have a cigarette, wait fifteen minutes, and you'll be ready to write another one
 
12:23 PM
:D
ui'm wonder about getting rid of those speechmarks on the repr output
/me goes to figure it out
 
If you're saying "I don't like the way that print(my_list) displays ["a", "b", "c"] instead of a, b, c", try print(", ".join(my_list))
If the data you're outputting is meant to be read by another process, consider formally serializing it, perhaps with json or csv
I want to say "rule of thumb: you don't usually need to explicitly call repr, since print will do that on your behalf" but I think people will come out of the woodwork with use cases where explicit repr is a perfectly good way to do some obscure task thank you very much
 
hmmm i should just be able to print the list? interesting
 
print will accept arguments of any type, and almost always succeeds in printing something
 
@Kevin gotcha i feel it easier to get placement done with grid.
 
Although it might look like dog barf if the class hasn't defined the right dunder methods
 
12:37 PM
just have to keep in mind you don't pack on grids XD
 
Wooo, your solution is perfect @Kevin, ty
 
12:48 PM
@Arne start watching from the timestamp
the thing is every sensible programming language that does specify distributions also supports something like "read a file from a set of files in the package private data, organized in hierarchical directories", except of course Python
because Barry says it is a design decision.
I guess it would be obvious if you're Dutch so I guess @MartijnPieters could help here :P
 
Just answered a question that asked "why is <common antipattern> giving me <error message completely unrelated to the antipattern>?" by explaining why the antipattern usually fails. My finger is hovering over the delete button in anticipation of the OP's reply of "I made your proposed changes and it's still broken"
A just punishment for my hubris in trying to answer an MCVEless query
 
1:03 PM
@roganjosh I occasionally work with the Bureau of Investigative `journalism, and there's someone there studying the inspection reports of public works related to train lines (so ot's tunnels, bridges, &c.)
 
Today marks the first time I've used the walrus operator for evil: x = 0; result = [x + (x:=item) for item in seq]
 
The authorities are apparently unable to tell him how many of the structures are in an unsafe condition, nor indeed when they were all last inspected. It seems not keeping such records in easily searchable form is not currently regarded as dereliction of duty. It should be.
 
Im trying to do df.loc[df.Feature == "somefeature"]['Value'] = someseries. But this obviously gives a SettingWithCopyWarning. I'm staring myself blind on solving this. the 'someseries' is a series that has the same indeces as the loc returns
 
1:22 PM
@Kevin print(repr(exception)) vs print(exception) :-)
 
@Kevin Uh, is that a pairwise sum of the list elements except nothing is added to the first element?
 
@mtbrands What happens if you try df.loc[df.Feature == "somefeature", 'Value'] = someseries?
@Aran-Fey Yeah.
 
that seems like a weird thing to need
 
@AnttiHaapala I am missing too much context..
 
It was for a SO question, so I don't actually know what OP needs it for.
 
1:23 PM
Should I go get my clogs?
 
@MartijnPieters importlib.resources does not allow loading files in directories,
 
But in my own code I do occasionally find myself writing a "cyclic pair" function, which is kind of similar
 
@AnttiHaapala yeah, that's annoying.
 
only files that reside next to an __init__.py, because FLUFL says it is a "design decision"
 
I think it's common-denominator thing.
 
1:24 PM
Except I want a two-item tuple of each item and its successor, and I want the last item to be paired with the first item
 
Not all sources of imports have directories or can efficiently load directories.
 
all sources of imports have path access
 
@AnttiHaapala not really.
 
for example?
 
frozenlib imports are embedded in the binary.
 
1:25 PM
no reason for it to not support / in names.
 
where is sys located?
 
so where is foo next to sys located? :D
and it is a moot question because sys is not a package.
only packages can have resources.
 
morning cabbages, Folks!
 
Yet you can freeze packages.
 
so where do the files next to the packages go to?
 
1:27 PM
(says Martijn, without knowing for certain and not having checked)
 
Isn't it a bit early for morning cabbages? It's only half past three
 
they must go to some table that has names. Just like it has "foo.bar" that table could have "foo.bar/templates/blahblah/foo.jinja2"
 
@AnttiHaapala embedded in the binary too.
@AnttiHaapala and now you've expanded the scope of a PEP massively to also overhaul the frozen implementation.
 
I do not believe it being much of an overhaul there.
the thing is I can still package the files, I just need to add the stupid __init__.py to every single data directory.
yet it doesn't belong there.
the only thing I cannot do is organize stuff in directories
If the problem is that "directories might clash when packed in a certain way" then all other systems avoid this by not caring about it. It is an user error to have "foo.app" with templates directory and "foo.app.templates" - just don't do it! :D
 
I note that importlib.resources started as importlib_resources, entirely external, so it was at that time limited to not making any changes to Python internals.
and I am only speculating, I have no actual insights into the design decisions.
Perhaps trolling through gitlab.com/python-devs/importlib_resources/… migh get you some.
Summary after a quick scan: the whole API builds on top of module finders / loaders, which abstract away a lot of access details. Having a file-system path jump off from those has a bunch of implications and potential pitfalls, and Barry and Brett didn't see enough need so pushed it out to a future option.
They are not opposed to the idea, however. Bring a good implementation and they'd be open to it.
 
1:59 PM
oh gosh oh golly.
I want to return two lists, this is getting complicated again :D
51
A: Is it possible to return two lists from a function in python

Sven MarnachYou can return a tuple of lists, an use sequence unpacking to assign them to two different names when calling the function: def f(): return [1, 2, 3], ["a", "b", "c"] list1, list2 = f()

wow is it really so simple?!
 
Python is pretty good at returning multiple values.
 
I was thinking "It'd be so easily if you could just do x, y = fun(IP) and have the function return ip_x, ip_y
Then I started imagining a tuple of lists which I have to manually split, and other things
 
@MartijnPieters this all started because I was trying to get rid of pkg_resources in Werkzeug and Jinja. And discovered that it's pretty annoying to implement SharedDataMiddleware and PackageLoader with only the built-in APIs.
 
return ip_x, ip_y is returning a tuple of lists, fundamentally.
 
Ended up not using importlib.resources at all, and using the bare minimum from the loader API. Only tested with filesystem and zip packages, although it accidentally added support for PyInstaller as well. Given that pkg_resources didn't support anything else either, and the only projects I know of are installed as filesystem packages, I figured that was ok.
 
2:15 PM
I want to build my own QR code generator and scanner application in python. As i am beginner of python so i don't know how to and where to start working. Will someone guide me to follow any tutorial that can help me in building my application?
 
Its a bit off topic but does anyone here know any free servers that run python
 
google's colab or MS's azure notebooks
 
Yeah but I can't host on a 24h basis can I?
 
no, I don't think so
 
@Simon tried pythonanywhere.com already?
 
2:18 PM
No
 
@NoumanEjaz Writing a generator seems easy enough. Read through the QR Code specification, determine what pixels need to be white and what pixels need to be black, and render them to an image with PILlow or a similar image writing libary. Writing a scanner seems a lot more difficult, since it requires computer vision, and I don't know a lot about that.
 
Thank you
 
re: importlib.resources i also feel like instead of abstracting binary packages and packages that are just files behind an interface that is hard to grasp it would have been better to force it behind something that can safely pretend to be a filesystem.
lucky me that I haven't run into any pitfalls yet, but it's probably going to happen soon enough
thanks Antti and Martijn *and davidism for the discussion =)
 
@Kevin okay thanks
 
Probably the hardest part of writing the generator is finding a copy of the specification without having to pay hundreds of dollars to the ISO organization
Ah, it's only 198 swiss francs, so that's slightly less than "hundreds". Good news.
 
2:21 PM
@Arne Looks perfect thank you :D
 
@davidism Cool, thanks for the context!
 
Perhaps I should walk back my claim of "easy enough", as I am now looking at the specification, which is 122 pages long
 
I haven't done much with importlib.resources yet myself; it's a little annoying that when it comes to zipped imports, pkg_resources and importlib.resources are very incompatible (pkg_resources works with zipped eggs, so individual projects, importlib.resources with zip files added to sys.path, so any number of projects).
 
Skimming through it, there's nothing particularly advanced in here -- a high school graduate could probably implement all the necessary logic. It would just take a real long time.
 
@Kevin See you next week, and don't forget to re-read to make sure everything is clear, and no excuses for skipping anything. :p
 
2:28 PM
@davidism: consider adding your voice to the importlib_resources issue I linked to, as another real-life use-case.
 
One could probably speed things along by implementing only one of the forty possible versions of the standard
 
Idk what the exact purpose of the agenda is, but I feel like there is a lot of work being done to promote an effective use of Pandas, as opposed to a vanilla Python plus pd.read_csv combo. Maybe there should be discussion on how to get new users to write more effective pandas from the beginning somehow? Idk. I'm not sure if that is in the spirit of the agenda.
 
@Dair As in, the agenda of the room meeting? Agenda items usually center around the chat room, so "how can we influence newbies on the main site to write better code?" is a bit outside of the intended domain of topics. On the other hand, past room meetings have often had agenda items like "here is an interesting project that the room might like to work together on", so "let's work on educating these newbies" might fall under that category
 
@MartijnPieters Just added a summary of my use case, nice find
 
On the third hand, we could just talk about it now. In my experience, it's very difficult to change the behavior of new users in any way, because there's no surefire way to get their attention after they register their account and before they ask their first question.
Whenever a computer user is presented with a screen of text in between them and their ultimate goal, the default response is to scroll down without reading it and click the "I agree" button.
 
2:39 PM
@holdenweb I watched something (Panorama?) About bridge maintenance and apparently it's because infrastructure is boring so the cash never materialises; any spare money goes into hot topics to win votes
 
Thanks, that makes sense. I will think about it.
 
In this case, though, the cause was kind enough to show itself. A big sinkhole opened up, a pip had burst and basically washed the carpark away from underneath. Network rail was over, United utilities, the gas board (Since it wouldn't be fun if there wasn't also conveniently a major gas pipe under there). I'm quite concerned actually, all our 40 tonne tankers have to cross that bridge. If they condemn it, it shuts the entire factory in 2 days :/
 
cabbage
 
Cbg
 
i have my own qr code scanner application. i wanted to know that how can i connect it with the other device by scanning. What will be requirements to connect in python?
 
2:52 PM
What is "the other device"?
 
You can blame it on Brexit, so no worries @roganjosh
 
Oct 1 at 15:41, by Kevin
More information required. There are many ways to connect a peripheral to a computer and there are equally many ways to receive signals from a peripheral
 
@NoumanEjaz that depends entirely on the scanner itself
 
Oct 1 at 15:45, by Kevin
The specific library and method you need to use will depend on the make and model of the sensor. Do you know what kind of sensor it is? Where did you acquire it? Do you have a part number, or a link to the manufacturer's site?
 
Also, I'm pretty sure the barcode library I was using could also handle QR codes
 
2:53 PM
is this homework of some sort? I remember a very similar question about a month ago
 
Typically, devices like that have a programmer guide or something to go with that tell you the different commands/etc to send and then you get to parse the data.
 
@ReblochonMasque oh, good :) Sadly, as a lowly contractor, the factory shutting is kind of a big deal...! They think gravity might have made the flow dodge that portion of the bridge, so fingers crossed
 
Not saying that's for sure the case here, just that's how it typically works
 
So we're all in agreement, then: the question is impossible to answer without more information.
 
Yes
 
2:56 PM
@ke
@Kevin can i talk to you in private?
 
No, chat doesn't have any private messaging functionality
 
Well, there's 3 of us that appear to have experience of scanners, so I don't see why you'd want a private discussion?
 
@roganjosh beacause i dont want to disturb others
 
Others in the room might take it as a learning experience as well. Might benefit someone else here.
 
Okay
 
2:58 PM
All the more reason to succinctly describe the issue :)
 
> if(len(epgs)) == 0:
print("EPG not found for: " + ip)
# Make a list of EPG's not found
notFound = list(notFound.append(ip))
This doesn't work, but I'm not quite sure how to make it work.
wow that broke my formatting, I'll go to a pastebin.
 
some_list.append(...) always returns None, so list(some_list.append(...)) is equivalent to list(None), which crashes because you can't turn None into a list
If all you want to do is add ip to notFound, then notFound.append(ip) by itself will do it. No assignment required.
 
@Kevin ahhhhhhhhhh
hmmm, I need to create the notFound list, prior to the if statement... ?
 
Yeah.
 
is there a library that can take a line of text and indent, wrap, justify in a monospace way? I was about to write some functions when it dawned on me that I should ask if that wheel already exists.
 
3:06 PM
Thinking about it some more, I don't think it makes sense for notFound to be a list here. You're calling the function with a single ip, so notFound will either have zero elements, or one. You could just as easily return a boolean that's True when a value is found and False otherwise.
 
Slowly, ever so slowly, things are starting to crystallise for me...
@Kevin hmmm ok
 
cbg
 
FTFY *crystallize
 
what is cbg?
 
3:09 PM
ok, so confuse! :D
 
Thinking about it some more some more, I don't know if it makes sense for this function to be responsible for detecting notfoundness to begin with. Surely whoever is calling the function could determine whether something was found by inspecting the length of the returned epgs object?
 
hmmm oh bum i may have broken everything.
 
Part of the standard library.
 
@Kevin I.... maybe?
 
@Craig thx, I've used that before too /facepalm
 
3:11 PM
Oh right, epgs is always returned, no matter if it's found or not.
 
Does this question need retitling, or at minimum should the first line say "up to Python 3.7" or "prior to 3.8"? Python tuple unpacking in return statement? Because the syntax is now legal in 3.8, so allowing the question to stand without saying "prior to 3.8" or "up to 3.7" would seem to generate confusion. Your suggestions?
 
@djsmiley2k i'm not doing my job if I don't totally break something...then totally redeem myself!
 
@Kevin excellent, I can fix this in the 'main' calling script, rather than editing one of the sub scripts. Which works out much better for me
 
actually QR code is a features in my application. when one user want to connect with the other user using QR code in my application then they should be connected to each other e-g: Zapya. but i don;t know how this connection will be done?
 
insert dumb and dumber reference here
 
3:12 PM
@biggi_ hah, concidering how thins are here atm, I don't want to be breaking anything important to customers.
 
I know the feeling. I'm in r&d, but I help support legacy as well here.
@NoumanEjaz what platform is this application on? mobile?
 
mobile
 
Android?
 
actually it is in developing process. now its a web app but we convert it into apk file through json
 
Actually it doesn't matter. Why not use the built in QR scanner lib, swap to camera view in your app and then have them read that way?
 
3:16 PM
I don't understand what "connect with the other user using QR code" means. A QR code does not connect anything. A QR code is just another way of representing static data.
 
bpaste.net/show/63kj -- Kevin, so I'm thinking line 40 is where I should be checking the returned value from the function.
 
I was just trying to tackle the "read qr code" part of the data first XD
 
@biggi_ I'm a network engineer. I'm writing code to try and improve some bits of my job which are glaringly boring to do manually :D
 
@djsmiley2k Yeah, I think so too.
 
Excellent :)
 
3:17 PM
Gotcha. As stated: I do research and dev work, so new products/etc
 
Thanks for your help, support, and all that jazz
 
So my job is to break it, beat my head against wall, get coffee, fix it then rinse/repeat.
 
#effectively, replace

    allEPGs.extend(getEPGs(myMember))

#With

    items = getEPGs(myMember)
    if not items:
        notFound.append(myMember)
    allEPGs.extend(items)
 
@Kevin I don't understand, does this mean the Python room meetings do not translate into actionable changes? If so, why, IYO? What is their purpose then other than to air different opinions about problems, then do nothing for another 1-6 quarters. For all those of us who haven't been present in previous room meetings, what do you see as the important issues where consensus on changes seemed to be have been decided on, then didn't get followed through? (links if possible?)
 
@biggi_ do you break the same thing again?
 
3:18 PM
@Kevin I think he might be going for a username link or something. One user maybe scans another user's QR code then adds to friends list?
@piRSquared sometimes. Depends how busy I need to look XD
 
(-:
 
@biggi_ we don't even know where this QR code is or how it gets there. This is firmly in the realms of too broad
 
I totally agree.
Probably shouldn't take a shot in the dark....especially when I haven't had my coffee yet XD
 
It's their responsibility to clarify :) I don't think there's anything wrong with shots in the dark other than it probably leading to frustration for yourself
 
@Kevin append or extend...
I think extend.
/me writes the code, runs it and waits
 
3:25 PM
@smci I don't want to get too deeply into it outside of the room meeting, but the TLDR of my opinion is "not all resolutions are actionable, and not all actionable resolutions can be carried out with a finite amount of manpower, and manpower is not always efficiently allocated since it is drawn from a pool of unpaid people"
 
Whoops. messed that up.
appending the empty epg to the list doesn't help hahah
> IP's not found in any epgs: 1, 0, ., 2, 4, 3, , -, 7, 5, 6, 8, 9
hahahah
 
Then don't test with the full list :) You can answer the append/extend question with tiny examples
 
hehe
 
@djsmiley2k append for notFound, extend for allEPGs.
 
WOOOOOOOOOOO IT WORKS
 
3:29 PM
@Kevin Ok but that's too general and context-free for me to parse without rereading old minutes. (Suggest for the next meeting, triage specifics of "Here are the types of resolutions that are a) non-actionable b) actionable but not feasible c) both actionable and feasible" then label resolutions as such in the discussion). If the conclusion is that the meeting is a waste of time other than a token display of listening, then say so. If people are requesting or expecting resources from SO, ...
...then that would need discussing too. Like at least a list of "the Python SO room's priority list of unimplemented SO change requests, from 2018". Because I hear that SO is de-resourcing tons of things, and clearly experiencing a moderator meltdown. So 2019 is going to be worse than previous years.
 
Ah I 've discovered a bug :/
 
Luckily the amount of resources allocated from SE towards Room Owners has remained steady at zero, and is unlikely to go any lower for the foreseeable future
 
@djsmiley2k I think you should name it after yourself and then claim your PhD in entemology
 
hahah thanks
 
@Kevin i propose we discuss contingency plans for such an event in any case, negative resource allocation sounds rough.
 
3:44 PM
I was debating whether to mention that it could go negative. "We need to run lean. We've thinned the free workforce, what next? <spots some server plugs>"
 
> if ipaddress.IPv4Address(ip) in ipaddress.IPv4Network(row["IP"]):
this line is tripping me up
I thought i was testing successfully for a host in a network, but it's not, just just checking if the Ip matches the one in the data...
I have the 'host address' and the subnet, so i need to combine them to make a IPv4Network object...
10
A: How can I check if an ip is in a network in Python?

okwapFor python3 In [64]: ipaddress.IPv4Address('192.168.1.1') in ipaddress.IPv4Network('192.168.0.0/24') Out[64]: False

this is close, but it gives the answer with / notation, rather than subnet notation
 
@Kevin small suggestion. In WPF, they have this on the sidebar gitlab.com/so-wpf/samples and it's full of examples of common things. Might be worth doing something like that here? Put that threading GUI thing that you sent me yesterday in there?
 
To broaden that slightly; should we be throwing away all of our solutions in chat? In some cases, there are issues that realistically could have been on main but there was not enough common understanding between asker and eventual-answerer without the chat discussion. These are currently unsearchable and usually require either a regular tucking the discussion away in their head, or the actual answerer being present to use the crap chat search to find them
 
I think asking some things in chat are fine personally.
I just thought it'd be nice to have some examples such as that one that really helped me that might really help someone else.
 
I'm not criticising that at all. I'm basically supporting your idea.
 
3:58 PM
Gotcha. rbrb lunch time. tacos!
 
herhrrrggggp i broke something and now i have no clue how.
 
Some dpaste/pastebin etc. questions and answers are pretty informative. But there's no way for people to search whether they have been discussed in chat before
 
Ah now I see what's wrong, and derp it's going to be a pain to fix.
 
"Oh, I remember Kevin answered something about frobnicated splines along these lines" --> me not even bothering to try find for the person asking it because I basically can't
 
and it's hometime :d
 
4:05 PM
@Kevin so my suggestion would be basically the 4 messages above. "Do we want to have a free gitlab instance where regulars can migrate/preserve good question + answer discussions that happen in chat, which can be given a named-and-searchable link on sopython?"
 
Hmm, interesting
 
@Kevin But seriously, one issue is the lack of SE resources allocated to fixing basic site functionality (i.e 8-year-old change requests getting ignored by SO mgmt). So why not reframe your comment constructively as define a consensus list of "the Python SO room's priority list of unimplemented SO change requests, from 2018 and 2019". That would seem slightly less futile. Even if SO mgmt don't do diddly till 2022, or beyond.
Otherwise, I don't see the point in advertising a meeting as a futile talking-shop that doesn't result in anything tangible. (won't attract attendees...)
@Kevin: hey maybe one good approach to take is "here's list of stuff that is near-universally agreed to be needed across all SE sites, not just SO or code-related sites". Whaddya think?
 
To clarify, the room meeting is usually oriented on the changes that ROs can enact themselves, usually by altering room rules or providing new features on sopython.com. Petitioning us to change an actual feature of the underlying chat technology, or anything on Stack Exchange, is not likely to be productive because the ROs do not have any more influence over the Stack Exchange dev team than an ordinary user
 
Don't understate an RO's influence. An RO can always threaten resignation to get their way... (too soon?)
 
Concrete examples:
- "can we get the markup engine to inline tweets again?" -- this is something we have no power over.
- "can we set up a form on sopython.com so users can submit anonymous feedback to room owners?" - this is something we want to do and have the power to do, but haven't yet found the time to do
 
4:18 PM
What is the blocker on anonymous feedback?
Or maybe I'm being too simplistic in my view of how it should be implemented. I'll go brush up on the transcripts when I have some proper downtime
 
"... when I have some proper downtime." Is essentially the same blocker for everyone.
 
Well, I would be happy to build that form if it's not some convoluted process about who gets notified of the feedback, whether it should only go to the person the feedback is for vs anyone involved in the site maintenance
 
/dev/null ?
 
So, reading through all the meeting transcripts to understand how it should be implemented... would take time. Before I understand whether I think I could do a decent job of it
@piRSquared ... tad harsh :P
 
agreed (-:
 
4:31 PM
@piRSquared You know that we gained an RO by losing a moderator?
 
I wasn't aware. Who?
 
@piRSquared Jon
 
Ahh, I said I'd stop participating as well. And I did... until I saw something of an apology that seemed to be on the right track. Then I stopped paying attention.
 
5:01 PM
I for one am extremely sad. Not about Monica's dismissal (I'm sad at a fired moderator, too. But I wasn't there, and I don't have enough facts). Rather, I see the effect that it has had on this community that has taught me so much and carried me through so many trials and triumphs in my life. I've made some dear friends here and my friend's pain is my pain... and it pains me to see how this community is now wilting, hemorrhaging good talent and great people
 
All the more reason to keep the chat room sustainable. I'm pretty upset that Jon left the mod team, as one particular example, but I'm sure as hell glad that he doesn't have to face the fallout from SE's nuclear blast.
 
much agreement
 
anyone familiar w/ factory_boy and sqlalchemy? i'm new to both and am having a difficult time mocking certain models
my impression is that using factory_boy w/ sQLAlchemy's scoped_session means i don't have to explicitly create all the different tables necessary for mocked models
but i keep getting a "no such table" error, and no tutorial i find deals at all w/ creating tables in the tests
 
@roganjosh Or just doesn't get spent at all ...
 
Come now, how does the Commons bar support itself? :P
 
Worst doc page ever?. Well it does have (on the right) a direct link to the source docstring...
 
5:33 PM
It made the news. I'm not sure whether it's "clever branding" that the company name appears in the second photo... next to a sink hole, but it wouldn't surprise me if the marketing department had a "bright idea" and submitted it
 
@smci yeah, and I haven't found what it delegates to. I always end up reading the source
 
@AndrasDeak I guess the doc generator should leave it as a link, but it should replace the silly boilerplate line with "see the docstring in the [source]"
 
@smci I thought it followed numpy with sphinx?
In which case, that would be the docstring I think. I need to check now because I've never called plot() on a df for this kind of reason
 
hey guys
im going to practice making django (rest fr) + react apps
what is the best setup for this?
 
... Guess it doesn't
 
5:42 PM
@roganjosh pandas has a FramePlotMethods(BasePlotMethods), but they can be a pain to use (e.g. a) they're supposed to accept valid column-names for arguments like x,y, but often throw KeyError on a valid column name b) the doc doesn't show they accept standard plotting args like color) So you'll probably end up screaming and explicitly calling matplotlib plot.
 
@Permian Django is not my thing, but React is front-end and REST is backend so I'm not sure what you're trying to do
 
backend = django (using the django rest framework)
frontned = react
 
@smci Been there, done that. I'd rather use a list comp to get a series back to a Python type before trying to plot
Not elegant, but I can't be arsed with the Pandas approach
 
@smci honestly if I used pandas I'd still prefer manual pyplot
@roganjosh I'm certain you can pass series as args to pyplot
 
You can, but then throw datetimes into the mix
 
5:46 PM
Plt has datetimes...in a manner ;)
 
@AndrasDeak Yes i think all three of us agree on that. There may be some subcases where that builtin DataFrame.plot() method can be helpful (e.g. plotting series), but like I show it has really annoying useability.
 
I battled it for a while and just went with "screw this" and did exactly what you're suggesting
 
@smci I tend to think it's mostly for convenience
 
@roganjosh Yes really. pandas errs in favor of "very powerful when code works, but very brittle when it breaks"
 
I don't see df.plot() as anything of a convenience at all
My previous message should have been tagged with Andras, sorry, but too late now
 
5:52 PM
@Kevin You totally misunderstood my point; I never said anything about "petitition ROs to do the (years-neglected) work of paid SO employees (i.e. unserviced open change requests)". I said one (small) thing we could do in our mtg is to briefly define a list of any essential unserviced change requests that we room users and ROs consider to be important. Ok? Then when SO doesn't do diddly, we can at least say "We requested you guys to implement these for several years running"
 
If I'm messing with data and want to understand it upfront before I dissect it further, df.plot() is immensely useful. If I'm building a plot to be seen by others, 70% of the time, I take more advanced measures. Only 50% of that 70% do I use pyplot only.
 
That is certainly something we could do, yes
 
@Kevin (Hey as an aside, if you're not sure you understand something I'm saying, better to simply say that and ask me what I meant, rather than assume a paraphrase that makes me look clueless or stupid. in any case I think was clear enough)
(I did explicitly say the intent of that was directed at SO mgmt. Not ROs.)
 
@piRSquared I'm pretty shocked by that tbh. I find appeasing the df for 30-60 seconds harder than just typing out the list comps. At the same time, .values.tolist() will not work on the front-end because of numpy types, so maybe I'm a bit jaded
@smci as an aside, I didn't think you looked "stupid" at all
 
@roganjosh Appeasing the df is the right phrase, loook at these crappy KeyErrors on columns that bloody exist in the df we want to plot:
>>> df.loc[df['Color'].eq('green'), ['Date','Color','Test1']].plot(x='Test1', y='Test1')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File ".../lib/python3.7/site-packages/pandas/core/indexes/base.py", line 2657, in get_loc
    return self._engine.get_loc(key)
  File "pandas/_libs/index.pyx", line 108, in pandas._libs.index.IndexEngine.get_loc
  File "pandas/_libs/index.pyx", line 132, in pandas._libs.index.IndexEngine.get_loc
  File "pandas/_libs/hashtable_class_helper.pxi", line 1601, in pandas._libs.hashtable.PyObjectHashTable.get_item
 
6:04 PM
It's not worth it IMO. And casting to a python type doesn't guarantee that it will be interpretable (?) on the front-end so I just go with what I know.
 
@roganjosh Yeah I know. Who the hell writes a builtin plot command that promises to use the existing columns, then somehow can't find them and fails with a KeyError... (FYI This is something the R language builtin plot commands consistently do pretty well, btw... it shouldn't be taht hard to get right)
 
It's still an open-source effort so I'm sure people put quite a bit of time into it; it's just not necessarily a coherent output. I don't use matplotlib outside of debugging so I don't have much say. Everything I want to display is front-end these days
 
@roganjosh "Everything I want to display is front-end these days" Really? what package do you use?
 
plotlyjs, a wrapper around D3
 
6:32 PM
Anyone ever used rabbitMQ? All the examples I see have the producer and consumer seperated. I'm looking for an example where a producer sends msg to consumer and consumer does transformation x on msg and then sends it to the end consumer.
 
Who is the "end consumer"?
You want a middleman to do the transformation and forward the result on?
 
Yes. RabbitMQ is serving as IPC. let me draw a Picture
So essentially Transformer.py is consuming on Q1 and producing on Q2
 
I don't know anything about this problem, but I like your nice graph and I think we should have more graphs in general
 
6:47 PM
I'll also add that I don't think I have a good answer to the question. But you probably couldn't have stated it more-clearly. Nice.
 
So the way it functions is that when you are consuming it hands all messages to a callback function. I could make the callback function do the transformation and write to Q2.
I'll try that
Thanks
 
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