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5:00 PM
Oh, ok. But would a meta room reduce the heatedness, or just move it somewhere less obvious to the casual vistor?
 
I imagine that it would both take it elsewhere and elsewhen
 
would it be feasible to have an irc hooked into SOPython's site? (to get around a room being frozen)
 
Yes, I think in general it removes the tension from people who don't want to be involved, keeps room6 on topic and the one on one conversation can be resolved quicker without distraction
 
If it's heated, give some time to the involved parties and talk about it later. If it's something general, talk about it elsewhere at the time
 
wim
How long does it take for a room to get frozen
 
5:01 PM
but details like a room getting frozen and whatnot make this too a non-trivial scenario
 
wim
Would a bot posting a message in it once every 4 weeks prevent that?
 
Maybe. Would the mod team get mad at us for doing that, though?
 
The issue isn't having a meta discussion in here. It's having one that's out of proporttion in terms of reaction and time taken compared to the action taken. It's ok to ask an RO why an action was taken. Get a response and move on, bring it up at a meeting if you feel it's problematic. It's not ok to do that every time you see an RO take an action, or to ignore feedback you got in the past when bringing it up.
 
I wonder how the mods would feel about a "dead" room being kept alive by a bot?
 
#1 item of how to contribute to room 6 - tell terry to say hi in r6meta every other day
 
5:03 PM
@wim IIRC, rooms get frozen quicker than that. But a post every week should keep it alive.
 
I have to leave so will not be here when we get to New item #1 (new contributors) - can I just add to the record "Include a link to github/issues on sopython.com (either wiki or main page)" and "create a pdf/visual guide to contributing to room 6 <- I'm going to try and work this up by completing one of the small issues this weekend" as not everyone is familiar with the framework
 
@davidism I'd love to get a response and move on. The only response I've received so far is "this is an old discussion (that I had with someone else, not you)".
 
@JGreenwell thanks, sorry you have to go
 
wim
@davidism It goes both ways. What about feedback for the RO, and an RO ignoring feedback they got in the past about their actions?
 
I have others but I'll bring them up later if they're not covered here
 
5:04 PM
@JGreenwell Noted. I also note that this is a good reason not to do the Items out of order. I have learned an important Chairman Lesson today.
 
I think we've been on this topic for a while.
Is it safe to conclude that we agree on having a separate grievance room, and we just need to keep it alive for now?
we can add it to the To Do and move on
 
What about the feedback through sopython?
 
I like that too
 
we probably don't agree about the details, but some kind of feedback channel, yes
 
why not both
 
5:06 PM
Anonymous feedback please.
 
out of curiosity how many more items is on the list, Kevin ?
 
wim
@idjaw Not really, it was just an idea I threw out there (and not necessarily a good idea)
 
@wim I disagree, I don't think it's a bad idea.
 
We've got three Items after this, although I expect the final one will take fifteen seconds
 
5:07 PM
@AndrasDeak does not line up but okie :\
 
I'd rather get a feedback form on sopython, if that's acceptable to people as a start. With the understanding that an ocassional question in here is perfectly fine, but continued disruption is not and should be taken to feedback.
 
I think that's a great start.
 
OK
Version 1 - sopython feedback form.
so say we all
let's move on
 
Yes, and I think it would be good to 1) make it anonymous, or give the user the option to disclose their identity, and 2) have it viewable for all ROs, and not just the one who handles it
 
wim
I've still got a few things to say on this topic.
Not only are we not seeing many of the members that are very active in on main, we are actually losing members that were good contributors - look what happened with @Aran-Fey recently
 
5:10 PM
(The good news is that I'll be coming back now that we've decided on a way to provide feedback)
 
wim
This was, as I could see, a direct consequence of one RO inability to handle criticism
 
@wim I disagree with that assessment
 
Yes, a feedback form on sopython sounds excellent. Let's see how that goes. If it works well we probably won't need to bother with a separate grievance room.
 
Let's stay on topic
 
@Aran-Fey Yay!
 
5:11 PM
Yes. Please. @wim Not to take away from your concerns here, but I think we just agreed on putting something in place to help provide feedback directly to ROs to act faster on valid concerns
 
@Rawing awesome!
 
Is there anything explicit you want to suggest/improve on this topic?
Beyond setting in place this new mechanism, I don't see what else we need to discuss at this point.
 
Would it be possible for the feedback to be made view able to the public, so we can direct others if there's a reoccurring issue?
 
I put forth two points regarding the implementation detail. I'd like to know if those are appropriate... or perhaps now is not a good time to discuss specifics?
 
but I guess these are details to system that we can hash out later
 
5:13 PM
@coldspeed it probably isn't
 
Okay then, moving on
 
your suggestion will be in the transcript and noted by whomever tackles the feature
 
Perhaps a "private? y/n" checkbox during submission... But we can hammer that out during implementation
 
@coldspeed Let's keep your improvements in mind. I think we've been on this one for a while and don't want to take away from your suggestions.
 
wim
@MooingRawr And also not immediately trashed / stars cleared by those concerned
 
5:14 PM
sounds good :)
 
@wim I guarantee that anything ad hominem will be unstarred, irrespective of target
 
We need an understanding that whatever feedback does happen, both parties need to accept it. If you provide feedback, get a response from other ROs, then ignore that response, that's not acceptable.
 
wim
@AndrasDeak Why? If it not abusive, is that really necessary?
 
oddly nobody protests when I unstar things that is directed at non-RO regulars
@wim yes
 
Let's move on, please. We have a lot to discuss regarding moderation practices in this room, but not now.
 
5:16 PM
in line with the new Code of Conduct, and Be Nice before that.
 
If you think there's an issue, but the general consensus is that it isn't an issue, then you'll need to escalate in some other way than disrupting the room.
 
wim
It's not "not nice" to provide a constructive criticism. RO are not infallible.
 
I second Aran, would like to finish this meeting so lunch time can roll around.
 
Ok, since we're talking about niceness, let's go to Item 2, "The welcoming and what it means for moderation of chat"
 
@wim "I don't believe you should have <taken action> because <objective reason>" is not ad hominem and will not be hurt. "Are you completely crazy?" is.
 
5:17 PM
Which I interpret to mean "how does the new Code of Conduct affect the moderation of the room?"
 
Thanks Kevin.
Let us please stay constructively on track
the way the discussion is going is moving more towards how this new moderation channel will "work" or what it will help alleviate
looks like we need it.
So please, let's just move on and stop.
 
wim
I thought ad hominem means "relating to or associated with a particular person" but maybe I'm misunderstanding.
 
The mods have more or less said that the Code of Conduct doesn't/shouldn't really affect day-to-day moderation. It's just a more stringent codification of the values that the site has had all along.
 
@wim In football, it's the rule of "play the ball, not the man".
 
@wim ad hominem is about criticizing the person rather than the action. But we digress.
 
5:19 PM
I would prefer if users would get a warning before being booted.
 
@Kevin I concur, handling problematic users is not in any way against the new CoC or old Be Nice
@Aran-Fey I agree and I'm pretty sure we do that unless someone is very disruptive (flat-out troll)
 
and if we don't do that, then this is again a perfect avenue for sending that criticism through the web form that will be open
 
We've got agenda items that predate the new CoC by half a year that indicate we've been trying to move in that same direction since forever
 
I agree that proper legitimate warning is required and failure to do so should be brought up so we can all reflect on why this happened and see what should have been done instead
 
@idjaw Agreed
But I refuse to accept any allegations that we should tolerate disruptive users on account of being nice. The JS room has been highly tolerant with trolls for fear of seeming unwelcoming, and it looks awful.
this is a hill I'm ready to die on
 
5:22 PM
@AndrasDeak There have been times where a new users was having a conversation with a RO and then got booted out of the blue because they were slow to understand something or didn't do enough research before asking their question, and the RO in question lost patience
 
The Meta.SE guide to moderating chat hasn't changed. meta.stackexchange.com/questions/271267/… We're still going to moderate the room to keep it on track. We're also trying to ensure a user has been communicated at before taking action rather than after.
 
by the way that became an official FAQ a few days ago
 
Guess it has changed. :-|
 
@Aran-Fey that has been discussed in private days before the meeting
 
@Aran-Fey it probably has, and it's not something we wish to make a habit out of.
 
5:23 PM
Re: warning before kicking, I agree, with the caveat that particularly egregious offenders aren't going to read our cajoling anyway, since they didn't the previous ten times.
 
though it's not always evident to non-ROs when someone was kicked and when they weren't
 
e.g. that guy that spammed gibberish in the room every day for a week
 
@Aran-Fey to add to this, the user would post and post almost allocating the whole page for their question. Not saying who is right or wrong, just something I've noticed. Also when someone tries to have a separate conversation then it might become difficult; or others don't want to start something during a "massive" convo. (just observation).
 
@Aran-Fey This is exactly what the topic about opening a communication channel was about and we are implementing that to help resolve/clarify these issues.
 
@Aran-Fey What Kevin said. The only time I've seen that happen is with repeat offenders. It may not not be apparent to bystanders that an irregular visitor has a bad track record, so it may seem like a kick without warning.
 
5:25 PM
3 mins ago, by Andras Deak
But I refuse to accept any allegations that we should tolerate disruptive users on account of being nice. The JS room has been highly tolerant with trolls for fear of seeming unwelcoming, and it looks awful.
^^ I agree with this wholeheartedly
 
Try not to assume the worst when you see moderation either. There are a lot of users, some years old, who we have notes on, but to you might look like an arbitrary kick or trash. When in doubt, don't assume malice.
 
@idjaw Yeah, sorry, I got sidetracked. My bad.
 
There are also chronic problem users who get very little leeway considering their history. I don't want to name a few out of niceness, but regulars shouldn't instantly shout dictatorship when a long-time vampire gets moderated very fast. Users with long history will also be moderated based on their history, not just the specific new messages alone.
 
I think collectively in this room, I hope we can agree that to a certain degree we want to help control the behaviour in a way that doesn't cause the room to accept trolling.
 
I think it comes down to having good faith in the RO, and trust they aren't power thirsty individuals.
 
5:27 PM
I for one guarantee that I won't tolerate trolling at all.
 
wim
@AndrasDeak that doesn't leave a lot of room for them to adjust their behaviour
 
What I've heard from site mods is that we have a reputation as a very well moderated room. We have a list of rules, they're hopefully pretty quick and clear, and we'll continue to enforce those rules.
 
wim
give them the benefit of the doubt, and moderate based on the current actions alone not on the history, imo
 
Nobody gets kicked on sight.
 
wim
a "long-time vampire" is perhaps better use for using ignore list than kick, provided they not breaking stack exchange rules
 
5:28 PM
The thing is, I know a few recurring vampires and it's actually pretty rare for them to be booted wordlessly. So I have trouble understanding what's going on when a user I've never seen before gets the boot out of nowhere.
 
I see nothing wrong with kicking a troll after telling them to stop when they won't yield.
 
@wim But when a vampire comes back with a few years of history and starts yet another incoherent mess of messages, we won't wait until we make sure that they still can't put a coherent question together.
 
When a chronic problem user turns up we like to give them the opportunity to demonstrate that they've changed their ways. But they need to know that we won't indulge them just out of sheer niceness. If they behave well, great. If not, then we have no option but to assume that they're just going to do the same old stuff. Again.
 
@Aran-Fey I think that comes back to having faith in the RO, maybe they've seen them before but you haven't?
 
@wim we prefer not to ignore users, because we lose the ability to moderate what we don't see. Being disruptive by being a horrible vampire is almost as bad as being a flat-out troll.
 
wim
5:31 PM
why do you want to moderate something that is just "slightly annoying" but not breaking any rules in the first place?
can't you just allow members to use their ignore lists, if they choose to do so?
 
Because if we tolerate slightly annoying, users will go away. The opposite of what you want. We wish to nurture the existing culture of sanity and trolllessness
3
 
@MooingRawr Yeah, possible.
 
We do allow members to use their ignore lists, but this still means we uphold a level of contibution we expect from the people here. Nothin more than being a minimally useful part of society.
 
wim
@AndrasDeak A fair point, but it's a grey line imo
 
ignore lists are a non-feature, if you ask me, since ignoring a user just means that you'll see one half of an irritating conversation instead of the whole thing
 
5:32 PM
of course "we" is mostly "I" because I don't know what the others exactly think
 
wim
Chat is supposed to be a casual place, less strict than main site. It feels more strict than main in here, on occasion.
 
@wim indeed. The more casual it is, the more trolling and flags there are. I don't want to sound like a broken record but think JS room or Lounge
The very hard pushback against trolling goes hand in hand with perceived oppression of liberal rights.
all in all, I'd rather have a well-moderated island of sanity than a madhouse where monkeys roam free
 
@Aran-Fey and any others interested I suggest reading eev.ee/blog/2016/07/22/on-a-technicality, as well as the other article linked at the top, for some insight into moderation. I think it's worded better than what I can say.
 
wim
I can't find it now but Kevin or someone had a MSO answer about moderation in chat
 
@AndrasDeak lmao so true
 
5:35 PM
I think it could definitely frame further discussion about this if we need to discuss it more in the future.
 
I remember writing an answer about chat on Meta, although I forget the particulars
 
we've spent some time here...is there anything of substance we can say?
 
On that note, I was somewhat surprised recently to discover that one of our semi-regular HVs is actually quite well-behaved on another SE site. In here, he's a classic HV: he ignores half of the info we try to impart, almost always forgets to format his code, asks marginally on-topic stuff. And gets all offended when we try to explain what's wrong with his behaviour. Etc.
But on that other site he has 20K+ and uses his powers properly. The moral is: if you let a HV get away with it, they'll take advantage of your kindness, mistaking it for softness.
 
wim
@Kevin can't even find your meta stack overflow profile now
 
("meta user" link on top right of profile, or just edit meta. into the url)
 
5:37 PM
are we at the point to move onto the next topic ?
 
wim
but there comment was responding to "what is the point of chat" or somesuch, and it was something like "a fun place to hang out and chat, less strict than the main site"
 
@davidism Thanks, I'll check it out later
 
I think everyone's had a fair amount of time on the soapbox for this topic. Let's finally get to Topic #1: "How can newcomers to SOPython contribute?"
 
@wim With how things are unfurling on main it might as well be that we're stricter :P
 
wim
@AndrasDeak Yes!
 
5:39 PM
Reposting for visibility,
35 mins ago, by JGreenwell
I have to leave so will not be here when we get to New item #1 (new contributors) - can I just add to the record "Include a link to github/issues on sopython.com (either wiki or main page)" and "create a pdf/visual guide to contributing to room 6 <- I'm going to try and work this up by completing one of the small issues this weekend" as not everyone is familiar with the framework
 
thanks, Kevin, on his behalf
 
I lost the link to the github page so I do like his first point.
 
@wim "a place for regulars to hang out that is less strict than the main site"
 
Yep, let's definitely add a link. I declare it with the power imparted upon me by the Chairman gavel
 
Not sure what he means about ""create a pdf/visual guide to contributing to room 6", does this mean a guide to how SOPython is structured or does this mean something else ?
 
wim
5:40 PM
yeah I don't understand it either
does it mean "how to chat in rm 6"?
 
misplaced ending quotes
 
wim
pretty self explanatory isn't it?
 
> and "create a pdf/visual guide to contributing to room 6" <- I'm going to try and work this up by completing one of the small issues this weekend as not everyone is familiar with the framework
perhaps it's clearer that way ^
this is not to say I understand ;)
 
I imagine some mix of "which SOPython repositories would be receptive to submissions" and "interesting SOPython wiki pages could be expanded"
We can always use additional entries to the canonical questions, that's a big one. Then there's user scripts and tutorials... Stuff like that.
 
wim
so not "contributing to room 6" but "contributing to SOPython"?
 
5:42 PM
wait I didn't misplace the end quote, it's the same spot as yours, i think we both miss placed it but I left the things after the <- because I felt it's a comment of his
 
@wim Yeah, that's the impression I got.
 
@MooingRawr my point is JG misplaced his end quote, I believe
 
Oh I miss understood your point, but yeah oops sorry
 
note to transcript: ignore Moo and me in this item :P
 
5:44 PM
Alright. So where are we at
 
So I guess the actionable items here are:
1. Make it obvious that these opportunities to contribute exist
2. Make it clearer how those contributions are actually made
 
good enough, next point ?
 
Not too controversial there, I expect, so now we can go to the final item: when's our next meeting?
 
Oh a minor point to this topic, can we move all the transcript from the wiki tab into it's own little sub page ?
 
wim
November 19
 
5:46 PM
I arbitrarily picked November 19. Mondays usually work better for me than Tuesdays.
 
@wim That's correct, from the stuff he's said on this topic in the past.
 
wim
perhaps a few hours later?
 
I find it weird that Winter's transcript is at the bottom and Q3 is at the top, and would like them all neatly in the same place if possible.
 
wim
it's like 3 am for the australians
 
@MooingRawr At the very least, going forward we ought to name then "{year} q{number}" so they sort properly
 
5:47 PM
Our resident Aussie has shown no signs that they ever sleep, wim. :P
 
another point is so we don't spam up the wiki links
 
Unless they can confirm they do in fact sleep
Resident Aussie, speak now.
 
I've never seen PM not here for EST time :D
 
@MooingRawr they have a separate tab, top-level menu on sopython.com
there's an old link in the wiki, and just the agenda item for today. The transcripts otherwise live in the separate top menu as far as I can tell
 
such removal.
 
5:49 PM
we could keep the Q4 date tentative until further notice (whether shifted or not)
 
I don't oppose moving the time, since the way it is us EST guys will get distracted by the promise of lunch on the horizon
 
Hmm could we move this meeting to another time, It's 2 hours over due for my lunch time, and my cafe runs out of food around this time.
 
no complaints from PST timezone
 
@Wim JGreenwell can sometimes have minor communication difficulties, due to a little brain damage he picked up from a bomb blast in Iraq. See chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/31874339#31874339 and the following message.
 
frankly quite a few ROs are absent, so we should allow feedback at later times regarding the exact time
 
5:51 PM
@MooingRawr I must admit I'm getting sleepy. :)
 
@AndrasDeak Yeah. I intend to write down 18:00:00 UTC in the next agenda, but I am entirely receptive to changing it.
 
:O this isn't my PM I fell in love with! /jking
 
we could pin a message for a few days asking for feedback while it's fresh, and still keep it tentative until later
 
Ok, that's all the official agenda items. With the power vested in me, I declare that any discussion that occurs after this message is just regular complaining.
 
@Kevin I would prefer something a little earlier than that, which is 4AM in my timezone, or 5AM in Daylight Saving.
 
5:53 PM
wooo lunch time. thanks for the meeting guys and girls, and kevins (for hosting too).
 
I'm equally comfortable with going earlier than 16:00:00. We'll have to poll the Europeans about that.
 
@AndrasDeak Did not want to interrupt the discussion, but I am personally experimenting getting driven away from my usual chat room because of exactly that.
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier that's a sad but highly on-topic thing :(
 
Speaking of dates & times, it's my birthday today.
13
 
5:54 PM
@PM2Ring many happy returns! :)
 
Huzzah!
 
Thanks!
 
Happy Birthday, mine is tomorrow
 
@Kevin <- this European doesn't care about the time either way. Later works. Earlier works, too. Same time also works.
 
PALJON ONNEA. CHÚC MỪNG SINH NHẬT!
 
5:55 PM
Ia! Ia!
 
@Aran-Fey check your UTC(+few) privilege ;)
 
@Kevin just not +12 :D
 
Good job everyone
 
Maybe we should start allocating more than 60 minutes for these GMs
 
well this was 2 hours, so allocation is arbitrary :P
 
5:59 PM
Yeah, thanks, Kevin. Well done!
 
Ok, the Q4 meeting page is up. Now ya'll have a full three months to come up with fun* topics.
10
(*topics will not actually contain fun)
 
@Kevin thanks
 
happy birthday @PM2Ring
 
pinned for good measure
 
Thanks, idjaw.
 
6:00 PM
if we post an explicit request for timing feedback we can combine it with an agenda invitation and pin that instead
that reminds me: @Drew, we're finished ;)
 
is indicator the tulip ?
 
Welcome to room 6, Rick. Have you read the room rules yet?
 
no I have not
 
I guess I'll go through the transcript now and write a summary before it congeals
 
Well they're right here! They include helpful links on formatting code too.
 
6:12 PM
oh geez Rick
 
cool i'll ctrl +k next time
 
But it's longer than 12 lines-- so you should probably use a pastebin anyway
 
what's Pastebin you have a link
 
I do have a link, it's in the rules ;)
 
I enjoyed the meeting, rhubarb ladies and gents
 
6:18 PM
 
@Rick thanks, I'll remove the ill-formatted version
 
@Rick and Morty is just OK. Convince me otherwise.
 
umm I rather talk about python
 
Good, looks like you've read the room rules then.
This was just a test. whistles and walks away quietly
 
6:20 PM
:|
 
dat username
 
so what is indicator, what function is it serving?
 
Yee
Thx Félix
 
@SaltyHelpVampire hello
 
6:21 PM
Hi
 
because node seems like it is the array/tuple ?
 
@coldspeed Thx! Didn't wanna say thx so much because I just gained the privilege and didn't wanna spam
 
We appreciate that. Please read our rules to be sure sopython.com/chatroom
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier can you see the code in the link?
 
I will indeed
 
6:25 PM
@Rick is there a reason you've pinged Félix for the second time now with this?
 
I am not sure if he saw the link
 
But why did you ping him in the first place?
 
he knows python and javascript.
 
but perhaps he's hanging out in the python room since he wants to talk python
and not javascript
 
@AndrasDeak Just read the rules, they seem fair enough, so I guess I can't spam questions, oh well :(
 
6:28 PM
that's why the code is python
 
@Rick My proficiency in php and javascript has not yet translated in python. From what I can understand, indicator, node = is destructuring the tuple in the stack. I don't know that much about binary trees.
 
@SaltyHelpVampire I'm afraid so :) But you're welcome to ask help for questions that are more than 2 days old, or just stick around and talk python
 
@Rick then why does it matter that he knows javascript? Just asking since that was the reason you cited when asked why you were pinging him in the first place
 
@AndrasDeak I read that, I was jk :P
 
6:30 PM
@coldspeed my apprach might have been misguided. do you understand the code?
 
I have lashed together a summary of the Q3 meeting out of coconuts and twine. It is visible at sopython.com/wiki/2018_Q3_General_Meeting.
3
 
Kevin == The Professor on Gilligan's Island. Or maybe MacGyver.
 
@Rick I'd suggest putting that in a debugger and stepping through the code. upon further examination, it seems that it will process the largest horizontal size of a binary tree.
 
Also I just checked the "salad language" section of the rules. Why is that even a thing? I mean, I will accept "why not?" as an answer, but if there is a deeper meaning, I'd like to know if possible
 
Why not?
 
6:35 PM
@AndrasDeak Ok then I guess there is no deeper meaning, thx :D
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier cool, but I just want to understand what indicator is doing. because both indicator and node seem redundant to me
 
Salad came into existence because we're goofballs, and it continued to exist because it's an easy shibboleth to determine who read the rules all the way through and clicked on every link
 
@Kevin That's clever, thx
 
@Rick If I understand correctly, every node in the tree gets added to the stack twice. When the node is first added with an indicator of one, this signals that the node's children have not yet been processed. You can't process a node until you process the node's children, so the node gets reinserted into the stack, with its children on top of it.
Then eventually that node gets popped again. By that time, the children should have been processed, and the indicator of 0 signals that the node itself may safely be processed.
 
@Rick I think it's because the script needs to differentiate between the building of the stack vs actually computing the width. There are three possibilities, which if node can't express.
is that what Kevin'd means?
 
6:41 PM
I feel like I only explained like 75% of it, so you don't have to feel like I got the last word in
 
so indicator is the first element in the tuple/array so "if indicator" on its first run is testing for 1. so "if indicator" is equal to "if node[0]" ?
 
@PM2Ring Happy birthday!
engaged-cabbage :D
 
I wouldn't say those are equivalent. We don't even know if the Node object can be indexed, to begin with.
 
indicator, node =, is the same as javascript's desctructuring {indicator, node} =
 
6:47 PM
You might say it's equal to if tuple_we_just_popped_off_the_stack[0]: though
 
@PM2Ring Happy Birthday, hope you have a blast today.
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier cool that's what I wanted to know :)
 
@PM2Ring Happy Birthday :D
 
>>> x = (1,2)
>>> a,b = x
>>> a
1
>>> b
2
^ quick demo of tuple unpacking
 
Thanks, everyone.
 
6:49 PM
Although it sounds like Felix cleared it up for you already
 
unpacking, that's the word I was unsucessfully trying to remember :)
 
@Kevin your expalintion helped a lot too thanks!
 
6:59 PM
stackoverflow.com/a/8029944/4014959 Bad info about Daylight Saving
 
@PM2Ring So what you mean is we should downvote that answer?
 
Nah, delete vote
 
@SaltyHelpVampire No. That didn't work. So more drastic action is required. High rep users can vote to delete the answer.
 
@Kevin I checked and it seems to be gone
 
See review queues for more - stackoverflow.com/review
 
7:03 PM
Balance is restored.
 
r/ThanosDidNothingWrong :-p
 
@shad0w_wa1k3r gg
 
We normally just let votes do the talking on technically incorrect answers. But when answers give bad advice that could cause major problems, then we like to take stronger action.
An example that's still sadly too common is answers that contain code that's vulnerable to a SQL injection attack.
 
@PM2Ring Makes sense. Misinformation spreads like wildfire if unstopped
 
Yeah. We expect people to use common sense to not use bad code they see on SO. But code that could cause major stuff-ups is too dangerous to leave lying around.
 
7:07 PM
"Age of information"...
 
@shad0w_wa1k3r You are an amazing person, don't let anyone make you think otherwise
 
I don't see a reason for that compliment apart from the snide remarks, but thanks :D
 
@shad0w_wa1k3r It was precisely that (EDIT: I looked up "snide" on a dictionary. I wouldn't consider it that, they are some clever stuff, not "derogatory"), and it is beautiful. Also you're welcome :D
 
@PM2Ring did I tell you about the time someone at Samsung copied code from one of my questions on SO?
not my answer...my question
 
@Code-Apprentice Kindly elaborate :D
 
7:13 PM
28
Q: INSTALL_FAILED_DUPLICATE_PERMISSION with Samsung Galaxy S8

Code-ApprenticeI am attempting to install my app on my new Samsung Galaxy S8 for the first time from Android Studio. When I do so, I get the following error message: Installation failed with message Failed to finalize session : INSTALL_FAILED_DUPLICATE_PERMISSION: Package bbct.android attempting to redeclar...

The incident even made it to a couple of blogs, including xda
 
@shad0w_wa1k3r :D
 
@Kevin Ah, I missed the meeting :| Thanks for the summary!
 
@Code-Apprentice It rings a bell.
Earlier today (ok, yesterday) I got a comment on an answer I wrote in the last day or two. The OP proudly linked me a Github repository of code he'd collaborated on with several other authors. I immediately noticed that a large slab of the code was a cut & paste of the answer I'd written for him on SO.
Which is fine, of course. But he'd totally neglected to give me any attribution. So I linked him to the little blurb about "user contributions licensed under cc by-sa 3.0 with attribution required" at the bottom of every SO page. A little while later he apologised and added my name to his Github stuff.
 
@PM2Ring are you sure you're better off now? :D
 
7:25 PM
I wonder how many people have used my code for modeling wireframe spheres. The fools, it's not even good.
 
@AndrasDeak No. ;) But at least the license says: "You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor endorses you or your use. "
 
hehe
 
Instructions unclear, PM 2Ring for President 2020!
 
PM's code somehow makes it into American voting machines, and that's when the backdoor activates...
 
poor Venezuelans
 
7:29 PM
yah, I heard about that on the news. Super crazy inflation and people can't even afford the bare necessities of life
 
FWIW, the code I wrote retrieves cryptocurrency exchange rates. I think the program it's now part of is for determining which cryptocurrency is currently the best value to mine. But I know hardly know anything about that stuff. stackoverflow.com/questions/51915941/…
 
wim
omg I hate bitbucket more and more everytime I use it
where the heck is the create PR button, I've been looking for it for half an hour now
 
@wim Add /pull-requests/new to the end of the repo URL :-p
 
wim
access denied
I can successfully make a PR against my own fork, but can't change the remote to origin in the UI
 
Something fishy, or maybe permissions are messed up...
 
7:35 PM
@wim I usually go to the "Branches" page. In the row of the branch should be a Create button.
 
wim
I despise this UI so much
 
oh...it's the "..." button at the end of the row
 
or if you are on the page for a branch, the "..." button at the top right
 
wim
aha, found it
that ... on the top right button was it, thanks @Code-Apprentice
 
7:37 PM
 
I am also not fond of important things you have to discover in the UI by hovering over them...
 
@wim watermelon. There's a similar menu on the branches "index", the page with the list of all branches. If you hover over the row in the table for a branch, the button appears at the end of the row.
@shad0w_wa1k3r yah, there's much to be desired with the bitbucket ui
 
@shad0w_wa1k3r Especially when you're using a touchscreen. ;)
 
wim
This UI is so bad. There must be all the time people creating PR to their own fork and then just sitting there unnoticed forever .
 
7:41 PM
@PM2Ring oh yes, that's the like the worst nightmare... Specially when you have to implement such UIs...
@wim I suppose that's one of the reasons they provide terminal "info" prints when you git push a new branch.
 
Bitbucket's UI must have been built by an engineer. It certainly looks like something I'd build. I think they need to hire more designers.
 

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