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18:06
What's worse for you, coffee or hot chocolate?
is the hot chocolate made with water or milk?
does it make a difference?
it makes all the difference @KevinB
Water
My coffee is 1 cream, 2 sugars
@forresthopkinsa depends in your level class an elegance
18:08
milk is more elegant, but only if it's 2%
skim milk is the same as using water
whole milk is a demonstration of gluttony
additionally, @SterlingArcher #twocreammasterrace
I like how that's informative, but doesn't answer my question at all
lmapo
wow, I don't even know what that stands for
"partially"
I'll take it
is it pronounced "ell em eigh pee oh" or "ell em eipo"
el map o
18:11
wow we've cracked the code folks
laughing my arse partially off
> cracked
oh my god it's another clue
Have you ever done an online scavenger hunt?
Google used to host those
18:17
scavenger hunts are literally the worst thing to ever happen to humanity
I remember when I was like 12 my brother in law would play this riddle scavenger hunt thing that would lead you to different sites after you decided something in html source or like noticed something in a picture
i once had an assignment in college that felt like one... it basically instructed you to go to a website and click on a particular link, then do a few other things, but the book was out of date... so you had to find stuff in the new design
oh right that cryptography thing
Cicada 3301 !
Dude, I should totally turn it into a crypto gambling game lol
No, this one was sketch af
Cicada was pretty sketch lol
18:19
that whole class was weird. it felt like an introduction to the internet
By like cyber punks in the 2000s using forums sometimes and linking to weird pages
there are a lot of those in colleges now
ohhhh I getcha
but the only people in the class were network admins and web developers
who... if by that point didn't know the internet, were going to fail
lol
this was 10 years ago
"now that you've written 250 essays, let me introduce you to word processors"
I was like the only one in my intro to ai class that could write an artificially intelligent program by the end of it.
18:21
it's people putting together courses/curriculums who have no idea what people in that field need
They had to allow alternate assignments because no one else understood lisp lol
I think that's maybe less a reflection of your classmates, and more a reflection of the class
wha
classmates can definitely alter the amount that gets covered in a course
depending on the instructor of course
I'd much rather an instructor who's there to teach, rather than just go through the motions and fail those who can't keep up
the ones who are excelling are going to excel with or without the course
18:24
@forresthopkinsa so true. That's my major problem with organized education though. Most advancement has historically been made by the self taught, but that could be a byproduct of how hard it was to get an education until recently and now it's like you're either in a class at Purdue or some really prestigious school or your in with the prolls lol
and if what you're saying is accurate that it depends on the class, then it's like a lottery of how much you'll actually learn and how much will be busy work. Busy work is worse than doing nothing because you can't even spend the time learning
yup
in agreement
accel? excel? meh
accessel
Yeah... When I learned access in my db admin class, I knew the end of the world was coming soon...
@Zirak fake news.. Goat's name was Sauromon (spell check)
18:30
that's spectacular
yeah my dba class covered nothing but access
it was more about how to structure tables than anything else
I feel like that's pretty common, I don't understand how nobody intervenes when these courses are being designed
most of the semester was spent on learning the sql to create a table... which most people didn't seem to grasp the purpose of, because it was access and they could just do it with the gui
We covered sql too, but it was mostly about structure, so I understand why they did it. Relational db's are fun, but normalization isn't really as necessary in the real world
@forresthopkinsa Who's that somebody who's supposed to intervene?
18:32
the professionals teaching the class... oh, wait...
the 'experts' who are supposed to be teaching the courses
right...
I mean, the professors are often not the ones who designed the curriculum
Oh gosh, my DBA class was a nightmare
yeah i had a pretty good professor in college, all of them were good and had real experience in the field
It was the professors first teaching job and he refused to let us use computers for anything. It was 100% on paper
but they had to teach the curriculum
18:33
and that's how that happens. I just feel like if I were a professor teaching a DBA course and I was told to teach my students Access, I'd be like, uhhhh
okay that makes sense @KevinB that's reasonable
if they don't have any say at all then I mean, there really isn't anything they can do
it was more of an introductory path anyway
meant to be two years that prepare you for going to mississippi state for a 4year
plenty of "dba" classes that really only serve to introduce the concept of "tables"
like, they had us buy this huge book, about the size of an encyclopedia
and we never opened it
user1596138
THis is a first for me
user1596138
> Except as expressly permitted by these Terms and Conditions in writing, you may not copy, reproduce, modify, republish, display, upload, post, transmit or distribute in any way any content of the survey.
18:35
> tables, how the fuck do they work
> The Unabridged Curriculum
user1596138
Is that real? They can legally forbid me from copy/pasting the text on this website? (I am not logged in in any capacity)
ok, what would be the easiest way to make every element in the render method of a react component change it's cursor to pointer?
can't any website make that statement on content unique to that site?
user1596138
Oh no I just broke the rules didn't I :O
If the content is copyrighted I assume so?
18:36
I can think of 4 or 5 ways that are a lot of typing, but...
user1596138
@Marie They're referencing the questions
user1596138
For example: "On a scale of 1 to 10 how enjoyable is X feature"
@DavidKamer a little css should do that
@KevinB right, but how could I make a toggle and not apply it to every class.
user1596138
@KevinB My question is if they did does it actually matter?
user1596138
18:37
Cause yeah, I'm wondering why that's not on every website
make it apply to 1 class, and toggle the class
sounds like something that a consulting lawyer threw in that nobody cares about
More likely a boilerplate EULA or something?
sure
So I have a job posting profile page for the job, and when a user navigates to the page, I'm having it check the store or token to see if the user id matches the poster ID and then set the UI to editable if it is that user
So I don't want to go through and say
18:38
@DavidKamer are you working on that pixel-perfect contract web app
if logged in, apply logged in class
isOwner&& style={{cursor: "pointer"}}
logged in class alters the cursor of various elements under it.
user1596138
One question
user1596138
> Which, if any, of the following categories or genres of video games, do you prefer to play?
user1596138
18:39
I typed it out manually, I moved stuff around
user1596138
So I didn't technically break this. But how tf can you prevent me from cpying that haha
You can toss the class on a parent element (e.g. body) and have it apply to statically applied classes on sub elements (body.editable .field)
@forresthopkinsa no, they decided not to do it all together. It wasn't something from a Princeton design lab associated with that university, so I'm not surprised if they didn't just want to avoid using a rando off the street lol.
@Jhawins some sites programmatically disable content selection to prevent you from copying
oh that's unfortunate @DavidKamer
that just makes me want to copy it more
user1596138
18:40
@forresthopkinsa So lol. I can just copy anyway.. Also they don't disable it
exactly, you just disable a css rule and you're golden
@KevinB that would be nice, and it does work that way to an extent through containers, but each page is unique
user1596138
I can see how if I am logged in or even identifiable to a site, maybe they have some say?
it's like, if we're just on the honor code, I won't copy it, but if you try to STOP me? Challenge accepted man
user1596138
18:41
But when this is public and anonymous. Yea. I just want to copy and paste the whole thing to Ubisoft
that's like ad block blockers
or the popups that say "I see you're using adblock..." right-click block this ad
user1596138
@KevinB Friggin Yahoo Mail does this now.
I'm saying that I don't want to just add a line to every element that ads just that. I want to make every element pointer: cursor under the root element with one line of code
18:43
@DavidKamer and the only way to do that is with css
you're overcomplicating this
user1596138
@KevinB I use the domain blocker extension a ton tho now tbh. I just block whole domains to remind myself not to revisit them
> cascading style sheets
You could do what I'm doing for anyone trying to fake a token or send bad socket requests. Respond with "You're ip address has been recorded and reported" lol
like what linux does with bad logins
user1596138
Haha omg linux logins
18:43
@KevinB oh shit I am
user1596138
> THIS INSTANCE HAS BEEN RECORDED
the first time I saw that I freaked. out.
and it was MY MACHINE
user1596138
Yeah me too cause I was legit trying to break into my dads PC
like, just add the class to a parent, and then using css, you can style whatever you need to. No need for cluttering up the react components for something that's stylistic anyway
Pop quiz: Where are the incidents reported to?
18:44
LOL
user1596138
And I'm like now he knows
/dev/null
they're not reported anywhere
@forresthopkinsa Yeah, lol, I actually am using an admin panel to log that though. I'm even using honey pots. This site will be legit. I actually might end up selling it..
right @KevinB
Damn son
user1596138
18:45
/log/secure or something
or is it \dev\null
Reported, not r ecorded right?
It's sent by mail, defaults to unix mail
but unless you configure it, it doesn't actually go anywhere
auth.log
18:45
So /var/spool/mail/root
get these backslash heretics out of here
user1596138
Pretty sure it's also logged to /var/log/secure
just type last into the terminal lol
hmmmm maybe
user1596138
Oh that's every attempt
18:46
there is a easier to read list I have saved on one of my servers, but can't recall off hand.
I actually have more rep on Security Exchange lol
although it's still not much and mostly from 2 questions.
okay so I asked for a promotion because I'm being paid legit half of what I'm worth here, and they're trying to give me a $2k raise
I'm gonna fight them
I'm still waiting for help fixing Unreal Engine 4 on Ubuntu's stack exchange lol
Ubuntu SE is pretty poorly moderated
at least it used to be, when I was around there a lot
user1596138
@forresthopkinsa So you asked for a promotion when you wanted a raise?
now... worse question since my first one was kind of garbo. How can I do the same thing with a click event?
user1596138
18:52
That's kinda your fault... Negotiations seem to have completed
I don't think there is any way around adding a separate click event for each item
I mean... a $2k raise is a move in the right direction at least.
unless I use vanilla js to make an event listener in componentDidMount for that class? I've never done that in react
How can you justify doubling your income at the same company without adding any additional responsibilities?
user1596138
^
18:54
What ever your job is, I'll do it for half as much in a quarter of the time
jk lol
user1596138
Without doubling your responsibilities
@forresthopkinsa spoiler alert: you're not going to get a 100% raise
Only a new job will get you that immediate raise (if you deserve that much)
i mean... my income has doubled here, but only over the course of 10 years
user1596138
If you're worth 200% your salary then you'll leave and make 200% your salary. That ones pretty simple
not instantly
18:55
@KevinB right, you're never going to get a 100% immediate raise lol
Negotiating raises is pretty ridiculous tbh. It's often sometimes easier to be re-hired to a place with twice than salary than negotiate getting twice your current salary
no yeah I wasn't asking for 100% raise
It's both a psychological and a business thing
but I was asking for more than $2k
and no negotiations are not done
they think they are lol
Which is why hiring conditions are important to negotiate
18:56
No one is really worth any more than what it takes to find someone who can do your job ADEQUATELY for the lowest price. You might get brownies for doing your job perfectly, but no one but you will really care in the end... Well, you're team might care somewhat.
make it a compromise. Ask for a guaranteed progression toward what you want.
even if it takes a while to get there
@DavidKamer what a shitty outlook
you should try working at a place with decent people who care about what the company does, and the company cares back
I don't know about that @DavidKamer it would be pretty expensive for them to replace me, it'd cost a lot more than it would to just give me what I'm worth imo
@Zirak It's true in my experience for every industry I've worked in. I agree that it is shitty and I would never run a business that way...
18:57
what is that, 2003?
yea. at least that is what I googled for.
"new capabilities"
good eye :)
@SterlingArcher doesn't matter, every outlook is shitty
Wow! it has a junk email filter!
18:58
innovative!
except i routinely find not junk in my junk folder
Has anyone else read this: gizmodo.com/…
@Zirak worlds worst magic 8 ball
whenever I think I'm valuable or special I read that and remind myself that we're all suspension bridge engineers working on pylon bridges or the other way around
> Outlook shitty
19:02
@DavidKamer that's half-satire, I hope that much is clear
It's written to be funny and engaging rather than accurate - there are many well functioning development teams and interesting problems to solve
@BenjaminGruenbaum ur mum
Gawker (now Univision) sites like Gizmodo and Co. have zero journalistic integrity and anything stated on their sites should be viewed with heavy skepticism.
I know. I've actually read his book. It's just funny, but it is partially true to the extent that we all know more about something that we don't do. Well, that is at least true in the Midwest where Silicon Valley has basically abandoned and sabotaged us as best they can...
They're not outlandishly wrong or inaccurate, but it's an over-glorified blog written by a bunch of click-bait amateurs. The only thing good on that site is Kinja Deals simply for..well..shopping deals
i mean... if you REALLY want job security, go work somewhere noone wants to move to
19:05
@SterlingArcher's vicinity?
mississippi
stop addressing me you're plummeting property values with each word
Hi, my boss has requested that I place a button on our web application that allows the users to "Close Window". This isn't something I'd add to the design myself, but I don't like to argue with my boss. I tried several javascript implementations but none worked for me. What code can I put in place while giving my boss a list of limitations / consequences?
@KevinB Coding isn't in reach for the average Midwesterner. They'd rather, good, bad, or indifferent, hire someone in Chicago with an visa. It's just the truth and I have no other opinion about it than I think it might make it harder than it should be to get a job in the type of coding you want. I'm utilitarian, and it doesn't seem very utilitarian the way it's setup. feels more like being taken advantage of.
19:07
@SeaCharp javascript can only close windows that it itself has opened
@SeaCharp I'm sure you're aware of this, but your boss is a raging idiot.
@SeaCharp tell him it is a hidden button that activates with alt+f4
My boss is OK, actually. He's not unreasonable, but I like to do what's asked and demonstrate consequences rather than attempt to inform him off the bat.
"tell him it is a hidden button that activates with alt+f4"

lol
even if that means wasting time?
Yes, even if that means wasting time.
It's his time, after all.
19:09
I mean, I feel like if he was reasonable then he'd prefer to trust you over wasting his own time, as you say
@SeaCharp then he should respond reasonably to the limitations of the browser for security purposes (imagine the horrors of letting a website close your entire browser when it wanted to)
@DavidKamer at the end of the day, the employer just wants someone there that will do the job while not breaking the budget. if that means having someone more expensive there doing it because they are more reliable, or instead hiring a few cheaper devs to get more work out of them at a lower quality, both solve the problem just in different ways and with potentially different results. Yes, some companies treat developers as if they can be just subbed in and out on a whim...
and in some cases that's true
He will respond reasonably, I just didn't want to describe the problem without confirming it with people who are more fluent with Javascript than I am.
it's certainly more cost effective to be able to replace developers instead of paying them more
that makes sense @SeaCharp
19:11
if you have the infrastructure in place to deal with the lower quality results
@KevinB Short term? Yes
@KevinB I don't think that takes into account smaller companies where developers each have a huge amount of project knowledge in their heads
Thanks for your feedback, guys/gals. Appreciate it.
good luck soldier
19:13
Exactly, wrt smaller companies with fewer devs (the situation i'm in.) but... the reality is, if they had to replace me, they'd just get a cheap dev that can just make things work. i mean, that's how i got here.
they can't afford to hire some big shot that's going to come in and be able to wear all the hats i wear on day one
it's something they'd have to pick up and learn
@SeaCharp it's possible in some situations - but it's not a reasonable request and is considered an anti-pattern.
@SeaCharp You can't close a window you didn't open.
10 mins ago, by Sterling Archer
@SeaCharp javascript can only close windows that it itself has opened
>:(
19:19
I second that >:(
fight! fight! fight!
turn that frown upside down
19:32
@SterlingArcher ):
listen here you little shit
8
@KevinB The one thing that I think has some truth that you will all throw stones at me for is that "just making it work" can sometimes be the right thing to do from a business prospective. In the end, standards ARE unicorns and there is no way to satisfy every standard because it's basically an opinion if it isn't required to make it function. HOWEVER, I personally like to follow and like one other's follow good practice as much as humanly possible.
user1596138
@DavidKamer Nope. Blah blah blah covers ears nope
user1596138
> from a business prospective
by just make it work i mean, be able to keep things that are currently running running. which... isn't a very hard task when things are running smoothly anyway
19:37
qualifying "every standard" I mean that you have plenty of standards to chose from, not every standard you choose to follow.
user1596138
You make your own standard and you follow it if there is none. And you follow it everywhere
here, that'd mostly mean making sure all of the renewals happen properly, and rebooting the server in the event anything goes down. but even that can be pushed off to IT instead lol
@KevinB oh, well I thought you meant the whole bad devs making 15000 lines of code for 1000 lines worth of logic and functionality
user1596138
For the sake of maintainability. Otherwise when you leave the company needs someone who wrote "genius" code like you... Which means you failed to do your job.
19:39
see... coding is a very small part of my job
user1596138
Your job is to leave that place in a maintainable state just as much as it is to fix today's issues lol (as a coder)
@Jhawins lol, I agree
my job is more about keeping everything running under budget while moving forward with company initiatives :p
the under budget part being rather important
but when you make candy crush and you want to get it out so you can pull in 50,000 dollars a day. Just get the freaking job done and retire to bermuda
user1596138
@DavidKamer Idk what that nonsense meant lmao
19:42
@Jhawins I'm just pragmatically saying that doing everything "the right way" isn't always the best way to make money.
the "right way" isn't real anyway.
Chances are if you're in this room you like coding for the sake of coding to some extent, but that isn't always practical
@KevinB that's part of what I'm saying
personally i'm adamantly against the phrase "best practice"
When you do something the first time, how can you tell if it was done the right way
user1596138
@DavidKamer Today.
user1596138
19:44
You're talking about today. ANd you're right.
user1596138
In the long run? Nope. That's what doing it "right" is.
@KevinB I personally get aroused when I hear anti pattern lol, jk
user1596138
Idc how you do it but it better not be throwaway code when you leave after 2 years lmao
Should I remove that?
user1596138
Intellectual arousement is gucci
19:45
i'm looking at code right now that outputs a <td>somehtml</td> preceeded by a single word, and that single word isn't showing up in the html and i'm not sure how that's happening. code that i wrote 8 years ago
@Jhawins did you write jQuery ever?
@DavidKamer Technical debt is, like actual debt, something you borrow now, and pay off later
user1596138
Yeah, back when I was an imposter who had absoutely no idea what I was doing. It's not even "good for animations" as the naive folks claim
and by "code that i wrote" i mean code that i copy pasted from an older version of the app and modified
The amount of interest you'd pay back depends on the time it would take you to pay it off, and the skill your people have.
19:46
and it's not version controlled
@Jhawins there are people who wrote jQuery yesterday.. that is wrong, but it wasn't wrong (necessarily) 2 years ago, but it's throw away code today
user1596138
My job for 3 years has been to repay tech debt from a team that wrote spaghetti on a hundreds of million dollars product scale.
user1596138
ANd that's also why I don't work at Sweetwater (FYI) because I'm tired of cleaning up from imposters
this app has roughly two dozen calls to .delegate that handle most of the logic of the entire application
user1596138
Like at least I knew I was growing when I as awful... These guys have been coding 15 years
19:48
@MadaraUchiha that's a really smart way to put it. It's kind of like speculating on the stock market on margin.
at least it's really well commented
well, n o
If you don't have a unique identifier, what's the best way to supply a key to a rendered div in React?
@DavidKamer There's no speculation here. I make it very clear that by making shortcuts now, we'll pay for the doubly and triply X months from now.
it's poorly commented, but every line of code has a comment
And that I actively try to avoid incur further debt when possible, which, unlike what most would tell you, is actually almost always.
19:49
> // get string
@SterlingArcher What do you have?
> var str = this.value;
Some context?
Just a sec
user1596138
@SterlingArcher Use React.Fragment lol
user1596138
19:50
It's just an array of elements that doesn't require keys :)
@MadaraUchiha those were the most intellectually honest series of posts I've read here
ack
this.state = {
  commands: props.commands,
  permission: props.permission,
  openPermissionsDialog: false,
  deviceCommands: new Map(),
};
user1596138
@MadaraUchiha He has trailing commas
@Jhawins trailing commas are awesome.
This is my initial component state, the only thing "unique" here is permission which is the name of the device permission we're working on
19:52
They make your git diffs twice as clean.
Trailing commas make git diffs a lot easier to read when there are changes
(or half as dirty, depends on your perspective)
yeah looking at this code i have no idea how it's giving me the result it's giving me
user1596138
Yea I always love the line change just to add a comma lol
@SterlingArcher How are you generating your divs?
19:52
and not knowing how it works makes me second guess changing it
Or rather, based on what are you generating your divs?
return (
  <div className="row" key={permission}>
    <Dialog
      open={openPermissionsDialog}
      onClose={this.togglePermissionsDialog}
      style={{ width: 450 }}
    >
      {permissionsContent}
    </Dialog>
    ... <!-- more divs and inputs -->
);
My divs are based on the content on this.state.commands
user1596138
Y u set props to state anyway, this might be a weird component?
user1596138
If the content is driven by state.commands
except inside there is a [["global", {stuff:stuff}]] (serialized map)
user1596138
19:54
As long as that's not constructor lol
@Jhawins did I read that you are not going to work at Sweet water?
@Jhawins it's a direct injected state, it doesn't receive new props
just initial props in the constructor
user1596138
@DavidKamer Not on Sweetwater.com lol. Hell no. Tired of cleaning up after people that didn't know what they were doing. Unfortunately those people ascended into technical leadership there.
@MadaraUchiha sorry {permission} is a rendering of const { permission } = this.state;
user1596138
You say you still have some misguided fondness of jQuery and "not doing things right" so I recommended ;P
19:55
@Jhawins is it really in jQuery? Lol
@SterlingArcher isn't that what mobx does (injects "state" vars from your store as props)
@SterlingArcher And there's nothing unique in there? Not even a combination of fields?
so if I click a button, I add a new item to the serialized map, but there's nothing I can use to "key"
user1596138
There's probably some MooTools too
user1596138
Idk I'm not gonna discuss the technical stuff I was told in an interview process, especially when I've named the company. But I was less than impressed
19:56
@MadaraUchiha not really no, I supposed I could just treat it like an index and do {permission+index} on the key
@SterlingArcher It's a map, what about the key of entry in the map?
@Jhawins yeah... Not on a site like that lol
@MadaraUchiha shitfuck!
user1596138
Well they want to redo it in Vue.js. But the people that are "architecting" that are the ones that wrote the jQ spaghetti and have no experience with anything modern
Wait shit, the injected item is blank
19:57
@SterlingArcher You can't put it in the map without a key.
screw it I can do some validation to make sure they don't add a new permission if there is a current blank
@MadaraUchiha good point, I really should convert it back to a map instead of working with the serialized form
I'm 24 and I'm pretty much giving the whole American dream thing one last chance until my savings are completely gone lol.
@MadaraUchiha @Jhawins much appreciated for the help gents, I know da wae now
🎉

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