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11:00 AM
Ye A* is the way it should be done
 
In computer science, A* (pronounced as "A star") is a computer algorithm that is widely used in pathfinding and graph traversal, the process of plotting an efficiently directed path between multiple points, called "nodes". It enjoys widespread use due to its performance and accuracy. However, in practical travel-routing systems, it is generally outperformed by algorithms which can pre-process the graph to attain better performance, although other work has found A* to be superior to other approaches. Peter Hart, Nils Nilsson and Bertram Raphael of Stanford Research Institute (now SRI International...
 
11:13 AM
hi
 
I'm debating whether it'd be worth storing the result of the distance between destinations and if it would speed up future lookups
Feels kinda machine learning-y
 
when I upload a logo using upload button and select open and after that again click open and click on cancel(from the upload window) it removes the uploaded picture
this is only happening in chrome
what to do?
 
Fix it.
 
War
hey guys
anyone here used workflow foundation ?
 
Nope, but sounds interesting. What's tat?
 
11:20 AM
It's a workflow engine built in to .Net Framework
 
Like scrum or something?
 
It's something I'm considering using but as yet haven't looked at
 
@RoelvanUden I see it is being done by jquery
 
War
i'm trying to figure out how to dynamically get a list of all available activity types
 
When I initialize the ComponentResourceManager with default values, what are default values? MSDN says nothing :(
 
War
11:22 AM
apparently adding a reference to the activity libs does not load them in to the app domain
 
@War Reflection into the assembly?
 
War
I figure there must be some sort of built in library call that can scan the available assemblies and return a set
@Squirrelkiller yeh i don't really want to scan the bin folder myself ... feels a bit off to me
 
Why though? Sounds like an X/Y problem honestly.
 
War
although i might have to
maybe you're right
maybe i've over thought it
 
it is not happening in firefox
 
11:27 AM
Chrome is dumb
 
@Butler1233 save coordinates, so you can easily calculate the distances
 
Or I could just save the distances. I already have the coordinates but I can't just pythag them because theres obstacles in the way so I need to find a route from point a to poeint b
 
but then you'd have to save distances from every point to every other point.
thats n*m
with coordinates it's just 3n
 
b-b-bbut obstacles
I don't see how coords could help
 
lets say you have 50 locations
 
11:36 AM
Use this as an example
 
the red dots are the locations?
 
still pathfinding?
 
what is the issue?
 
Aye. The boxes are obstacles
 
11:37 AM
A*
 
Sebastian thought that I should store the coords instead of the distances for some reason
 
and you have to move around them?
 
Has anyone used Evolve here?
 
Yes (not evolve)
 
@HéctorÁlvarez you mean the vlan program?
 
11:38 AM
@Butler1233 storing the coords of the path will allow you to know which path it was rather than... the length of the shortest path
if you want something to walk that specific path, you need to store its geo data
 
@SebastianL I don't think so. In my context, it's a database migration framework.
 
@Butler1233 the simple answer is, it makes the math easier
 
the easiest way is to define it in a sequence of coordinates (where the start is the starting position and the end is the end position and each coordinate between those is a place where the object should turn)
 
@Butler1233 What's the problem? Split into a grid and run an A* on it?
 
It's pretty simple, you make a script folder, follow the naming convention and it guarantees that the database is created from scratch with the exact same configuration every single time.
 
11:41 AM
how can I avoid getting the unordered list from @Html.ValidationSummary()
?
 
@Butler1233 whats your cs background? If you need help understanding A* then we can help you
 
Splitting it into a grid would add a huge amount of overhead though surely
 
I don't want to see the bullet sign
 
not as much as storing n distances for n+1 obstacles
 
@SebastianL I would love to hear an explanation, the explanation on the wiki is pretty dense and all those edges, lines and hamiltonian cycles aren't exactly easy to understand.
 
11:48 AM
So...I kinda lack an understanding of API here.

I have a .NET library, that handles that ultimately change or read a database.
I also have a razor page website.
How do I make a webapi my razor page can call? Do I have to...listen on a websocket with the library (that is now an application or service rather than a library), and send json back and forth, hardcoding the domain name to my server?

They are in the same VS solution.
 
@Butler1233
instead of saving the green lines you can save only the red coordinates
 
I already know where the coordinates are
 
@Squirrelkiller Why do you have a Web API from your RazorPage? Is it a client side request?
 
then you don't need to save anything
what is the problem then?
 
But only 3 of the lines on that diagram are valid because I can't go through obstacles
 
11:50 AM
@Butler1233 thats basic collision
 
I was wondering about storage because then I don't have to recalculate the distance between the two points every time
 
that's something you could cache, but nothing you should save
 
if neither the coordinates nor the obstacles change, you could save it
 
@HéctorÁlvarez you know Dijkstra?
 
but i'd still store the path rather than the length of the path
I know Dijkstra
he lives 2 streets away from me
 
11:52 AM
Yeah I was going to save it unless things changed, then obviously I'd have to get rid of it all ebcause it'd all be invalid
But it'd be faster to lookup the distance between point a and point b than to calculate it
 
@Wietlol tell him that proxy said hi.
 
ok... im not sure he will hear it though
 
@Rudi I don't have a WebAPI, that was jsut a thought. Rigth now, I have a razor page and a .NET application. Wondering how to connect them.
 
@Butler1233 that should not concern you if you run your program on something more powerful than a raspberry pi 2
 
It'll concern me when I'll have a graph with 100 destinations on them so it'd be faster to look up 10k results than recalculate all 10k results
Storage is cheap, processing time is not
 
11:56 AM
@Butler1233 That probably depends on how long you store something and how often you calculate something
If you store 10MB for years, it may be more expensive than calculating it a few times within half a second each.
 
I'd store it as long as the obstacles or locations stayed the same
I'd run the whole graph (based on Monday) 212 times per day, which would include up to (currently) 600 destinations to visit
I mean I'd have to benchmark it to find out what difference it makes
 
Yo scouseboy
Just pls get it in your face
That simple math (WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE DOING)
Is not computationally complex
 
Thx
and thx to Seb for proving that point
 
12:11 PM
look at this, memory is not that important if you are under 100000 points
 
@Squirrelkiller You said library not application - which is it? The latter is a bit more complex yes you'd have to create a way for it to accept requests
(or change it to process through something taht your web api creates)
 
Technically, there's a library handling db access and stuff, and an application using that library to store and view data (that is stored in teh db, but the application doesnt care)
 
by the way it crashed after it hit the physical limit of ram @ ~ 15gb
 
the application also handles authentication
 
@SebastianL It's physical, that limitation?
 
12:16 PM
So right now, I could build a quick wpf window that builds on that application, and it would just work, as the window may build those classes for itself and use them.
Just need to do that the web way now.
 
@RoelvanUden i only have 16gb installed :'(
 
Is there any particular reason you're not referencing the library directly?
 
like...from the website project?
 
Me too. I'm still waiting for my new PC which should be arriving this week or next week
 
Yes
 
12:19 PM
i should work right now, but im too busy playing with that calculation :D
 
and then...just handle it like I would normally in wpf?
(orwinforms)
 
12:29 PM
Orwin was a swell guy to make all those forms
 
and orwell was his evil brother
 
@Squirrelkiller Yes pretty much - if it's just interacting with a DB it's what every other app does
 
@SebastianL double plus good
 
Yes
 
Yes!
 
12:38 PM
How do I...make my application...exist? Where do I build the models objects? If I build them in within the @functions{}, won't it try to...build them on the clients machine or something?
Where's the connection to the server?
 
@Squirrelkiller Your Razor page is backed by an ASP.NET MVC backend, right?
 
Are you burning out @Squirrelkiller?
 
@Roel just trying to get over a mental barrier. I don't understand where the connection happens. Will need a few more explainations to actually make the connection.
With standard html/css/js it's easy: js does frontend stuff, and links go to a new html file.
Then there's php, taking soap request for example, sending responses (although I'm not completely sure how that connects with the frontend either, just used it with an android app where I directly processed the response).
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan I'm honestly not sure. Let me check some stuff.
 
@Squirrelkiller Generally speaking, if you're writing ASP.NET MVC, then your actions on the page are performed on the server - you have a button which does a POST action on the page, it will be mapped to a C# method on the page's controller. This code can call your .NET component and execute your DB code.
If you don't have any C# server-side, only client-side JS, you'll have to add a server endpoint- create an ASP.NET WebAPI project with a simply API controller, and call it via an HTTP request from your client.
 
Well.. any server that responds to requests is.. a server. You said you had a library that does database stuff. That's a library, and it isn't a server automatically. If you made a web application that serves API responses over HTTP, for example, you'd probably have a ASP.NET app that runs in IIS. That's where it lives. That's how it process stuff.
 
12:50 PM
Pretty sure I only have front end so far
 
Your application "exists" as a web application - hosted by IIS or whatever web-server you use to host your code.
I'm pretty sure Razor code is evaluated server-side, isn't it?
 
You could say it...serves the resonse.
And yes, its executed client side
 
@SebastianL No, but it sounds polska.
My polish reduces to "Kurwa", because that's what the Poland countryball says all the time.
 
@HéctorÁlvarez thats the man who invented the basis for the A* algorithm
Dijkstra's algorithm is an algorithm for finding the shortest paths between nodes in a graph, which may represent, for example, road networks. It was conceived by computer scientist Edsger W. Dijkstra in 1956 and published three years later. The algorithm exists in many variants; Dijkstra's original variant found the shortest path between two nodes, but a more common variant fixes a single node as the "source" node and finds shortest paths from the source to all other nodes in the graph, producing a shortest-path tree. For a given source node in the graph, the algorithm finds the shortest path...
not that hard, but you should understand this, before trying A*
 
Experience Level: Mid-Level
Qualifications: 6+ years of software engineering experience
https://stackoverflow.com/jobs/168628/software-engineer-js-angular-c-sharp-or-c-plus-plus-rg1308-akvelon?so=i&pg=1&offset=-1
Do they look for a dev who needs 6+ years experience to become Mid-Level!
 
12:57 PM
and this job offer should tell us what?
thats one hell of a skillset they want :D
 
> Set<Flights> GetFlights
yay
 
and Dijkstra went through all possible routes, till Bae's parents went home
 
@ntohl yes, please!
 
>Solid technical aptitude and problem-solving skills and strong debugging skills.
= our codebase sucks
 
1:09 PM
> >Write quality production code
> >using JavaScript
 
@SebastianHofmann Well, you're currently chatting using quality production code written in Javascript.
 
Probably it was TypeScript before
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Who said it was quality?
 
Damn, I love the guy who has invented TS
 
in google chrome, message shows jquery function is not a function
but on firefox it is wokring ine
*fine
what is wrong?
I applied it onnblur
 
1:13 PM
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan "quality" have you used chat?
 
ok, that looks kinda stupid
 
There's a big difference between "there's a lot of bad code in javascript" and "there's no good code in javascript".
 
thank You
 
1:14 PM
@ntohl also you should use dark theme, it collapses images for you
!!so-dark
 
I have dark theme
 
Do you have it set to auto-collapse images?
 
Oh my sweet summer child. Use the chrome extension. It's far superior.
This is just for chat though.
The chrome extension I linked, I mean. Not the user style.
 
1:17 PM
ok.
what are thoose colors?
 
Probably "user color bars". You can turn them off in the options. Probably the worst feature of this extension.
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan is there?
i think the difference is very small
 
I disagree. Both logically and practically, they're trivially different.
There's a LOT of good javascript code out there. Excellent javascript code. It's just that there's so much js code in general, a lot of it bad. It's the same for PHP, and VB before it.
JS is the go-to language for non-programmers who just want to hack together a bit of functionality for a web page. It's got a low barrier of entry, which is a good thing. More people can write more stuff.
But if you're a programmer that writes good code in C#, for instance, but bad code in Javascript, the fault is yours, not JS's.
 
that is true
but when I search for answers for Java/.Net questions, the answers I find are of a very different level of quality than the Js answers I find
 
@Wietlol probably related to what Avner said
 
1:28 PM
@Wietlol just use dynamic
Make your C# more like JavaScript
 
more people can write = more people can answer
 
ow, and then there is @MikeTheLiar
 
Don't fight it, it's so much easier when you don't fight
 
I will never willingly write Js ever again
why would I want to make C# more Js-like?
 
I thought you liked JavaScript though?
 
1:28 PM
I think wietlol has plenty of crappy code already :)
 
Java is short for JavaScript.
 
@Default obviously
 
You can find new fun and exciting ways to use dynamic!
 
its just that I havent realized its bad yet
 
I think the term you are trying to achieve is accessibility. JS is more accessible than C#, i.e. it has less constraints. You can code a JS function using notepad, and if it breaks you won't get any catastrophic errors. However you'll 99% need an IDE to create a C# project or spend hours learning how assemblies join together, make sure it will work before starting to use it (compilation required!) and then it will break and halt code execution onwards.
 
1:29 PM
@MikeTheLiar you clown
 
Putting the die, die die! in dynamic
 
@MikeTheLiar htm is basic for java
 
Is Node a good graphics library?
 
@MikeTheLiar for you, it is
 
1:30 PM
!!tell wietlol woosh
 
now get out of the civilized# room and enter the nodejs room
 
So all in all, you can successfully code JS in a few minutes, but you can't in C#. That simply sets a bottom line in terms of understanding the language, and makes C# better than JS in the average. As @Avner said it's not because JS is bad, it's because we make it bad... but who are we to blame, it lets us develop like monkeys and doesn't complain!
 
what you are targeting?
 
Let me also be on the record as saying that I have no problem with bad code.
I mean, I have a lot of problems with bad code in my code base. In a professional setting, as written by professional developers in professional software projects.
I'm all for a language allowing you to write bad code if you just want to script your game, or add some interaction to a simple web page.
 
1:33 PM
@HéctorÁlvarez "use strict";
 
and we have a lot of bad code in our code base
 
@SebastianHofmann Again, it's optional, doesn't come by default, and having it disabled has no setbacks whatsoever for a beginner. On the contrary, it helps my forgiving a lot of mistakes that are actually "allowed" by the framework.
 
It's like saying that my bike is a bad bike because it doesn't have a lightweight titanium chassis and, umm, I ran out of professional bike concepts. But you get the point. My bike is an amateur commuter bike. A semi-professional biker (I have some friends) wouldn't be caught dead on it. But I like the fact that as a non-serious biker, I don't need it to be professional.
So "code" isn't just something that developers do. It can and should be something that amateurs do as well, and it should serve them, probably in different ways than it should serve me.
 
"Code" is like, the smallest part of my job.
I spend the least amount of time writing code of any of my tasks.
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan It's significantly less likely that a professional cyclist will somehow be forced to use an amateur's bike than that a professional programmer will be forced to use an amateur's code.
 
1:36 PM
I write code when I don't have a junior or an intern to write it for me.
 
@MikeTheLiar what do you do then?
 
@Wietlol that does not prove any point...
 
there are certain things that I really question stupidity
@ntohl this proves my point of bad code in our code base
 
@Proxy research, planning, debugging mainly
 
1:38 PM
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Good example, I can move around by running while sitting on the bike instead of using the pedals like a total monkey, but if it works for me it just works, even if it's wrong, even if that's now how the bike was expected to work. But hey I don't know how to do it the "right" way! I'll also show my friends who are clueless too how my way to do it works, and they'll embrace it, at least for now.
 
@Wietlol that point didn't need proving. Everyone seen bad code in any language.
 
@MikeTheLiar neat.
 
@KendallFrey I think the metaphor goes pro-rookie biker vs pro-rookie dev. Nothing about pros using rookie stuff, more about pros with bikes and noobs with the same bikes.
 
@ntohl hold on
i didnt mention that a specific language is bad
i mentioned that we have shitty code in our code base
such as the example given above
 
@Proxy I can't tell you how long I've spent debugging a problem for days 7 layers deep that I fixed with a single line of code (or sometimes negative code)
 
1:41 PM
@HéctorÁlvarez I don't understand this at all
 
> There's a big difference between "there's a lot of bad code in javascript" and "there's no good code in javascript".
> is there?
 
that is unrelated
 
@MikeTheLiar i believe you, i just thought you were in the "coding" phase
 
but lead to this conversation
 
I was referring to this. Because it surely looks like "javascript is bad language"
 
1:43 PM
this isnt even Javascript
its C#
what kind of casting do you have in Js?
 
none
 
js is a loose typed language, there is 0 need for casting
 
but an assload of implicit conversions
 
@Wietlol Arcane summons IMO.
 
@Proxy these days the closest I get to coding is "this third party library is throwing an error when being used in conjunction with this third party library. I'm not sure if it's a timeout, OOM, db deadlock, or threading issue. There goes the rest of my month"
 
1:43 PM
java porn casting
 
As one of my teammates said yesterday, "remember when we used to write software?"
 
:P
 
There is no writing software. There is only fixing an endless parade of bugs.
2
 
Software engineers don't write software, they talk about writing software. Juniors and interns write the software, engineers determine the best way for them to write the software and the most efficient way to reject their pull requests.
 
what do you consider a junior then?
 
1:45 PM
Someone with a CS bachelor's degree.
 
Someone that it's my job to make sure that they're productive at their next job.
 
im just curious, that definition has quite a different meaning for different companies.
 
Haha, degree
 
tfw dropped out of college twice
 
@Proxy Someone who has less than 7 years experience on vue JS, or is less than 20 years old.
 
1:49 PM
tfw you make more than people with degrees and don't have any debt
 
@Proxy "The one to whom you leave the dirty work you don't want to do", of course.
 
The quality of a programmer is not measured in the level of degrees achieved, nor lines of code written, but rather by the loudness of their leycaps.
 
In that case I'm good quality
 
@MikeTheLiar Damn straight it is.
 
Are you suggesting CherryMX blue mechanical keyboards?
 
1:51 PM
ohh jesus
 
> Blue
 
@MikeTheLiar I thought it was the characters that their indents were composed of
 
Hah
 
I'm suggesting IBM Model M.
 
MC Green Master Race
@Hypersapien if you use tabs, you don't count as a developer
2
 
1:51 PM
I've seen the Light. Now I can C sharp
2
 
@MikeTheLiar oh good, my keyboard plays 1 second of earrape on each keypress
 
Ask not for whom the clicky clacks, it clacks for thee
 
What happened to 007?
 
Terminated.
His usefulness as an asset was exhausted.
 
Can we, like, get Caprica to ban "see sharp" jokes here? Or maybe just take whoever tells them aside for a short conversation about how we've been hearing them since 2001?
 
1:52 PM
Hi
 
Real talk though, no idea. He said his "assignment was over" and the next day his account was deleted.
 
How do I read input from console?
 
@MikeTheLiar, wtf
 
Similar to a scanf() analog from C
 
kicking finger twitches
 
1:53 PM
legit?
 
@PrittBalagopal Console.ReadLine()
 
Oops
My bad, wrong room
Thought this was Javascript
 
@rol_dfa You can't C# until you know what the C stands for. It's Chivalry btw.
 
Whatever room you're going to, google it first
 
Apologies
Okay sure
 
1:54 PM
u thur @ntohl
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan No C# jokes in a C# room is like no talking about about a bordeaux in a wine conference.
 
@Nathvi yeah. It's weird, I kinda miss him.
 
I need someone to talk about Akka.net with
 
in JavaScript, 27 secs ago, by Pritt Balagopal
How do I read input from the console in node.js?
 
@Nathvi I'm here
 
1:55 PM
...
 
dox the next person to talk about js
YAS
 
@Nathvi You still stuck with all those actors and other celebrities?
 
haha
 
@Nathvi I feel very brave for resisting making the obvious "Get an actor to talk about it with you" joke.
 
that joke gave me cancer.
 
1:56 PM
anyway we were talking about casting, so actors. come here...
 
Good thing I didn't make it, though, right? Right?
 
@ntohl, is it possible to send actors to a "dumb" windows service, and to have them persist in the service after a restart of the service?
I know you can create actors remotely, just not sure about if those remotely deployed actors can be persisted.
 
@MikeTheLiar except if you're in the JS room
we need people to make fun of
 
@Nathvi doesn't a restart of a service means the process gets terminated and started again?
 
we need E-class people
 
1:58 PM
@SebastianL, yeah
 
how do you plan to persist data in a nonexisting process
 
use a persistence store...
 
so serializing
 
@Nathvi I don't see why You couldn't.
 
and what is the problem?
 

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