last day (27 days later) » 

3:00 PM
we'll distribute it over torrents :P
 
How many of us do we have? 12? (I think sehe is not interested)
 
you can DL the HIB via torrent- they give it out.
@thecoshman 10.
 
Here's a deal, if we finish this, I'm buying you beer until you drop.
 
the current list is Domagoj, DeadMG, ScarletAmaranth, thecoshman, Radek Slupik, Etienne, Tony, Cat++, Neil, and Collin
 
3:01 PM
I'm fine with just splitting any money, if that is what we can agree on
 
@DomagojPandža I can tank like a champ. I hope you're ready.
 
@DomagojPandža What is the main "thing" of your top secret company anyway ?
 
well, I don't think there are any real objections to a split
 
so, what's the next step on this?
did we finally decide on the code repository to use?
 
What if someone leaves the team before the end?
 
3:01 PM
@TonyTheLion Wrong room
 
then that's their choice
 
@ScarletAmaranth Appeasing other companies with their software needs. But the top secret part is rendering technology, now that I am actually financially safe to attempt new things.
 
Sehe, you're going to be seeing a lot of these, sorry..
 
I don't mind, as long as the game is fun to work on.
 
in Lounge<C++>, 1 min ago, by Tony The Lion
so, what's the next step on this?
 
3:02 PM
@DomagojPandža Appeasing other companies with their software needs :D ? Can you be more explicit :D ?
 
As unlikely as huge profits are, aye
 
@TonyTheLion The next step is to get proper source control up.
bitbucket would have been quite ideal but we can't do that, so we need to get some other hosting
 
right, so we decided on which source control system yet?
 
Collin can host, which can be going up in a few hours
Mercurial
 
how about this. To start with, any money made from sales, we just put in a kitty. At some point, we can vote for a 'pay out'. We can sort out how much every one gets latter
 
3:03 PM
@ScarletAmaranth Whatever their problem is, I can solve it. Usually it's developing applications for their businesses, the pay's good, but I don't want to do that for the rest of my life.
 
@DeadMG I'll work on that tonight, might have to think about security a bit
 
This will allow for things like server hosting or what not.
 
Don't commit if it doesn't compile. That's rule #0 guys. If you've never worked on a team before, you don't know how frustrating that can be
 
@DomagojPandža So, bringing whatever software solutions for whatever software-solvable problems companies might have :) ?
 
@Neil Do we want someone managing the gold repo, who takes pull requests ala the Linux kernel?
 
3:04 PM
Pretty much, it's not thrilling work like game development, but I am finally there to finance a team working on a game.
 
@Collin You mean a repo moderator? I think that would be smart, yeah
 
And I don't mind a hobby to hone my skills in the meantime. Especially when it's with the loungers.
 
4 messages moved from Lounge<C++>
 
So, let's figure out these stupid logistics so that we can get to work. :Đ
 
@Neil Yeah, the Linux kernel has a master repo, with a handful of people pushing to particular branches, and Linus takes pull requests during the merge window, which he personally merges and eventually pushes to the master
 
3:06 PM
@Collin Sounds like a boring task, but it sounds like an important role
 
@ALL feel free to use the mumble for this, since you're all hard at work.
I imagine it might work well for informal brainstorms like this :)
 
Anyone wnat to take care of the repository?
 
@Cat could do it. He looks like the guy who loves redtape.
 
I don't mind
 
Ensure that things that need to be done get done and who is working on what
@thecoshman Excellent, putting it down in the documentation if that's fine by you
 
3:07 PM
right
I convinced bitbucket to allow me to pay them, so that's taken care of
 
We need someone to start fleshing out a skeleton
And this is a sensitive part of the project and so we can't have 12 people working on the skeleton
 
@DeadMG How did you do it?
 
@DeadMG They'll definitely be more reliable
 
DeadMG, it seems you're the man to do this
 
Wait, if Hg is distributed, can't we have two repos on Bitbucket? Just a thought.
 
3:08 PM
He said he's going to come over there and break their cunts.
 
I'm baaack.
 
Hello.
 
@RadekSlupik That would get horribly unweildy
 
hahahhahah, @DomagojPandža
 
3:09 PM
How I see the repo thing:
 
May I suggest we make use of the wiki for a good bit of the documentation? rather then Google Docs?
 
oh yea, Rule #1: NO SINGLETONS
7
 
@TonyTheLion You mean Rule #0 ?
 
@TonyTheLion Rule #0 ftfy
 
@thecoshman :P
 
3:09 PM
@TonyTheLion Rule #0 was don't commit if it doesn't compile
4
 
there was already a rule #0
 
:P
 
@TonyTheLion Dependency injection > singletons.
 
Then rule #-1.
 
@Neil You mean don't push if it doesn't compile?
 
3:10 PM
@Collin I'm used to svn. :P
Cat, didn't you say you wanted to make the skeleton?
 
Rule #2: Modern C++ code. If I see a charstar, I'm coming to your home with an axe.
 
There's a master repository. Everyone forks from the master's default branch and then are free to do what they want with the clone, make feature branches and whatnot, and then merge everything they want to get to master into their clone's default. Then that person issues a pull request to the master repo on the default branch, and whoever is picked responsible for the master approves it, and then everyone else pulls the changes from master.
4
We can do reviews on the pull requests if that's your thing.
 
Okay okay we need to make a list of rules, don't scatter them all around here.
 
@DomagojPandža Well, if it comes to writing DX backbone, we're fucked :D I've recently seen some of that void** cast nonsense :)
 
We'll abstract the bitch.
 
3:11 PM
@CatPlusPlus thecoshman is going to manage the repository, so pass it by him first
 
And let's say the master has to build, but individual forks are free to be broken.
 
@CatPlusPlus I'd also add that whilst we should be afraid to fork and branch, don't do it will nilly
 
As long as you don't issue broken pull req.
 
I think that works best, yeah.
 
No, we shouldn't be afraid to fork and branch.
This is not SVN.
 
3:12 PM
@ScarletAmaranth OGL has somethingsimilar.
 
willy nilly :D
 
Do feature branches, or feature forks, or whatever you want. But the point is, nobody writes directly to the master.
2
 
@CatPlusPlus what I mean is, there is no need for 100 branches called test_1 ... test_100
 
@CatPlusPlus Whoops.
 
@thecoshman If someone wants to do that, why not.
 
3:13 PM
I'm going to say this again, wiki?
 
They don't have to be pulled into master.
You can collapse them onto a 'default' changeset or something.
 
@CatPlusPlus good point
 
anyway, you can't pull and that kind of thing if the master has 0 commits
so I committed just some hgignore rules
 
All empty repos are the same repo.
 
Bitches, would you like a kyrostat TLD? www.kyrostat.com?
 
3:14 PM
So it doesn't really matter.
 
@DomagojPandža Sure.
 
My treat.
 
@DomagojPandža That's not a TLD, silly.
 
ahahahah
 
@DomagojPandža I know what you mean, but that's not a TLD :P
 
3:14 PM
@DomagojPandža kyrostat TLD? kyrostat would be awesome. Now first get $100,000.
 
just domain, but yea
 
I knew you're going to use that. :Đ
 
oooh, can we get emails as well?
I like having emails :D
 
If you buy that, get GApps on it.
 
yes yes
 
3:15 PM
@thecoshman We all already have emails :P
 
@CatPlusPlus Added to documentation under Version control with thecoshman being repository master
 
We'll use team@kyrostat.com for the team mail and stuff.
 
@DeadMG I want thecoshman@kyrostat.com
 
lol
 
3:15 PM
hahaha
 
You can has unlimited email accounts at my host.
Well, "unlimited".
 
@DomagojPandža Unlimited :P ?
 
GApps are better.
 
I'm gonna try not to mention this word I always mention when in this room :)
 
BETTER.
 
3:16 PM
obtw
 
just a quick backtrack for a minute
 
Guys, though another rule: whatever we decide, the documentation will always be there
 
if we make some monies and we dish it out, can we claim back on any team expenses- like paying bitbucket? :P
 
I've added a Rules section to the document. docs.google.com/document/d/…
 
3:16 PM
so any updates on where the repository is, how to download, how to install.. you can (or should) find it all in the documentation
 
@DeadMG Hahahahaha, right.
 
lol
 
@DeadMG I's say expenses are paid back first
 
Imma add @DomagojPandža modern c++ rule
 
If there are important updates, you can e-mail all of us, but important updates only. Every little push shouldn't be mentioned.
 
3:18 PM
@ScarletAmaranth I think that's implied.
 
email me any expenses you make, I shall make an accounting sheet for them later (if no one is opposed to me book keeping)
2
 
Oh gods we have an accountant.
 
lol
 
good, @thecoshman is accountant
:)
 
What's next, a lawyer?
 
3:18 PM
star important facts
 
I still can't believe this is actually happening. I tried talking you into this a month ago, must've struck a chord with some of you yesterday.
 
any ways, home time for me more or less
 
@TonyTheLion Which means he's the one who goes to jail when we get nailed for tax evasion
 
@DomagojPandža I don't remember that
 
@CatPlusPlus good idea, in case we get sued
 
3:18 PM
@CatPlusPlus who wants to be a scumbag?
 
by the way, can we please specify virtual functions over PIMPL as abstractions?
 
Lol, that awkward moment when your ealize @thecoshman was in the work the whole time :D
 
@thecoshman Adding to rules
 
I want pimps.
 
virtual functions are better
 
3:19 PM
oh yea, what about OOP
wankery?
 
@ScarletAmaranth lol, yeah, I have a real job. I would love for this to turn a real profit so I can work on this full time
 
I'll try to abide by OOP, but sometimes the rendering code will turn batshit DOD.
 
let see... I can live of like €15k a year... so if we can make €150k a year, I can live of this :D
 
Data oriented, cachehit friendly
 
3:20 PM
Dorld of Darcraft
 
oh kewl
 
@DomagojPandža Expected. Render code goes across binary boundaries, so it has to do that sometimes.
and requires high performance
 
do we have any UI designer people?
or whatever that's called for games?
 
I like UI design.
 
@TonyTheLion I can help with that, done some on android.
 
3:21 PM
the vacuum cleaner does UI then :)
p
 
right
 
@TonyTheLion even in games, it's still a UI :P
 
@TonyTheLion You volunteering?!
We have a volunteer!
 
@TonyTheLion We call those "artists".
 
3:21 PM
next point I want to address: how much code do you guys want to rip from my existing codebase?
 
@RadekSlupik Let's make us a UI then.
 
@Neil nope
@DeadMG which codebase?
 
I've got a windowing abstraction, octree, shit like that
 
@TonyTheLion Just kidding :P
 
Artists are a sub-race of humans. They work in damp, dark places. Never look at them directly in the eyes.
3
 
3:22 PM
the engine?
 
Anyone wnat to do the artistry?
If so, good for you, though I pity you for the work you'll have to do
 
I can do artistic shit, but we have settled for mostly user-defined shipgoodness.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I have some artist friends who would be very offended if I told them that
 
@DomagojPandža I'm totally putting you down as an artist candidate in documentation!
 
3:23 PM
@TonyTheLion My brother is an artist.
 
the first person to use a raw pointer gets a prize
 
Well, as I've said before, I believe some of us could get a "perfectly legal" version of maya and photoshop and conjure some art up, but the quality would be questionable.
 
lol
 
@EtiennedeMartel oh lol
 
Modeling, animation, texturing, rigging, animation, offline rendering, the whole batshitload.
 
3:23 PM
@TonyTheLion Yes, a slap across the face.
 
I might actually be able to get an artsy person in on this if you like. views?
 
OK, next question
everyone on Unix and Mac will be using the latest GCC, right?
 
Well, it would be nice.
Why use an older version?
 
If we're doing modern C++, no GCC less than 4.6 allowed.
 
3:24 PM
I have clang but I'll try to install the latest GCC.
 
I might poke into seeing if I can make it work for Windows, then
 
I got 4.7.
That should do it.
 
@thecoshman Not sure if we don't want to keep this for the lounge c++ ppl only, but I personally wouldn't mind at all.
 
Can't we just agree to use the newest stable, awesome version?
 
as far as I am concerned, stick to free tools or tools that actually let us sell the game
 
3:24 PM
@DeadMG Need numbers, man.. Not good enough to say latest GCC
 
I have gcc version 4.2.1 xD
 
I have 4.7 64-bit on Windows.
 
I'll install the newest one.
 
and what about external libraries, do we always migrate to newer versions or stick with the versions we started with?
 
the last time I tried that died horribly and shit, but I know that everyone else doesn't want to limit themselves to what VS can support on Windows
 
@TonyTheLion We migrate to newer if there's a reason to
 
ok cool
 
@CatPlusPlus Does that come with a nice IDE? :P
 
is someone taking notes?
 
@TonyTheLion upgrade if we can
 
3:24 PM
@DeadMG Is it possible to use a non MS compiler in Vistual Studio ?
 
@TonyTheLion chat is taking notes silly
 
@DeadMG Vim. :P
 
@ScarletAmaranth Technically, yes. But I don't know of anyone who has done it.
 
@RadekSlupik It's time to sudo port install gcc47.
 
I'm appeasing my girlfriend for neglecting her and trying to keep up here, you guys write it down.
 
3:25 PM
Added under compiler technology GCC 4.6+
 
I have a war on two fronts. :Đ
 
Added under compiler technology GCC 4.6+
 
Ah crap again
 
@DomagojPandža I have no girlfriend to appease, I'm so glad, for now
 
3:25 PM
I wonder if it's possible to build App bundles with Eclipse.
 
@DeadMG I don't know of any other nice IDE on windows really though :)
 
@TonyTheLion I wonder why :P
 
@EtiennedeMartel I hope it compiles. Now trying. :P
 
@thecoshman lol
 
@DeadMG Qt Creator.
 
3:26 PM
And if we use something like eclipse.org/cdt ?
 
Or Eclipse.
Or Code::Blocks.
 
looking at Code::Blocks for now
 
I hate Code::blocks
it sucks ass
 
Vim FTW.
 
yes VIM!
 
3:26 PM
Emacs > Vim
 
IDE sounds like a personal developer choice
 
Notepad FTW.
 
does Eclipse actually support C++ in a non-trivial way?
I thought it's support was a joke
 
@DeadMG It's not bad, a bit slow though
 
my life is a joke :P
 
3:27 PM
GCC installer y u fetch LLVM I already have latest LLVM installed.
 
rule #4 avoid convoluted sections of code, break things down so it is clear what is going on. Use God damn comments!
 
@DeadMG I use eclipse for Java, though don't know how good it is for C++
 
I unfortunatily have both code blocks and eclipse installed.
 
@RadekSlupik Blame MacPorts.
 
If it's half as good as it is for Java, it'll work well
 
3:27 PM
@thecoshman Add it to the rules on Google Docs.
 
sbi
@Neil Wrong tab? :)
 
@DeadMG AFAIK there is a C++ version, but it's not the best
 
@Neil It's good at generating boilerplate :)
 
user784668
Can haz write access to the super secret black project chatroom?
 
@thecoshman If we do code reviews, then these things will get clarified on the go.
 
3:28 PM
@thecoshman I'll start every comment with // goddamn comment #432:
 
hmmm
Code::Blocks hasn't been updated in two years
 
@thecoshman Then again, if a piece of code absolutely needs to be commented to be understandable, perhaps it's too complicated.
 
Dev-C++!
 
home time for me
 
@ScarletAmaranth Would be nice to use a GUI though rather than gcc or something
 
3:28 PM
@DeadMG Damn, that means I have the most recent version! :D
 
You can do code layout in a way that makes it reasonably easy to pull into an IDE, while also supporting a command line build
 
@Fanael Yup.
 
user784668
@DeadMG It's still being updated, there are nightly versions on their forums.
 
What would we lose if we decided to do MSVC compiler supported stuff ? Var length tempaltes ... init lists ...
 
That way you don't legislate the IDE/Editor people like
 
3:29 PM
Range for.
 
user784668
@sbi How about writing to something you don't have write access to? Yes, makes sense.
 
@Fanael The link is at the bottom
 
@ScarletAmaranth Flexibility?
 
@CatPlusPlus That works in visual studio.
 
let's all use GCC
it's free, and easy
 
3:30 PM
VS2012, that's not released yet.
 
Is it so hard to come down to GCC?
 
and it works on all platforms
 
@CatPlusPlus RC exists
 
user784668
@sehe I know. I even clicked it. But nobody reacted until now.
 
@DomagojPandža It's hard to find a decent environment for it.
 
3:30 PM
Also template aliases.
 
VS2012 can suck my dick until they bring some C++11 goodness to the table. Half a candy is not a candy.
 
@DeadMG You can use VS with a Makefile-type project.
 
@DeadMG write code in VC, compile with GCC
 
8 messages moved from Lounge<C++>
 
@RadekSlupik Packaging for OS X without Xcode could be a pain. We might need to look into it.
 
3:31 PM
I'm going to eat. See you guys!
 
@CatPlusPlus You can use VS to write code for GCC?
 
@DeadMG Why not?
It comes down to build system.
 
Yeah, if we had a common makefile for all platforms, it would be nice.
 
@CatPlusPlus Because VS has a completely separate build thingy?
 
It can execute an external build system.
 
3:32 PM
sure, it*can*, but I have no idea how.
 
Using VS with GCC? Can that be actually streamlined into usable land?
 
Makefile project.
 
@EtiennedeMartel That's one of the nice things about cmake, you define CMakeLists.txt or whatever and it generates xcode projects, VS projects, Unix Makefiles, etc etc etc
 
Then you provide command lines for build, rebuild and clean.
And poof.
 
I wish creating projects would be actually more about writing the sodding thing instead of making VS work with GCC :)
 
3:33 PM
Well, I think it's time for me to upgrade to Lion. Otherwise I'm stuck on OpenGL 2.1.
 
I did that for external compiling of shader files, but that will be a butthurt process
 
@Collin It will generate VS projects using VS compiler, though, it might be hard to convince it otherwise.
I never tried, maybe not.
 
@CatPlusPlus True, but you could still do the makefiles and setup VS the same way you were going to in the first place
I've never used Cmake for anything large scale, so I don't really know how much of a pain it is.. though KDE uses it now for everything, right?
 
Also, if anyone uses VS and then screws up code formatting, I'll slap them with a trout.
 
3:34 PM
lol
 
user784668
@Collin Right. But CMake sucks nevertheless.
 
@CatPlusPlus Well, other C++ IDEs suck especially big cocks :)
 
good thing I have le speedy internets
 
Don't use an IDE if you can't configure it to do the right thing. :P
 
IDEs weigh in at like, 100MB each :P
 
user784668
3:35 PM
tl;dr: use vim.
 
user784668
NEXT!
 
Surely, vim.
 
For the same amount of fun, you can stuff your dick inside a waste processor.
 
@DomagojPandža Sounds tempting man.
 
lol
@ScarletAmaranth sounds painful, FTFY
why is the robot not part of this?????
 
3:37 PM
I use vim and have no problems you do.
 
@TonyTheLion He didn't really want to be.
 
So, do i need mingw to build with GCC-like compiler or how does this sodding thing work ?
 
damn him
he would have been a nice resource
he could index everything we say and we wouldn't need google docs
@sbi, Y U HERE?
 
@TonyTheLion Must have been an accident.
 
I don't usually scream "I'm not part of this", but when I do, I join the room that's part of it
 
3:41 PM
@ScarletAmaranth MinGW is GCC and CRT and stuff.
 
Cathode Ray Tube
 
@DomagojPandža Best monitarrrz evar.
 
Generic C Compiler
 
funny to realize you get mentioned in the bin
feel very proud of having been mentioned in the bin :P
 
damn
Eclipse comes with only gcc 4.3.2
what's wrong with these people
 
user784668
3:45 PM
@DeadMG Eclipse doesn't come with any compiler. Where are you downloading it from?
 
@Fanael Why are you in this room? You're not part of the team.
 
Oh, does anyone support std::thread on windows yet? that mingw-x64 thing?
 
@Collin Well, MSVC compiler does.
 
@DeadMG The only way I found was to edit the project's settings to specify a path to a different GCC.
 
@DeadMG Let him speak, this is just a chatroom afterall
You're welcome to listen to his advice or not
 
3:46 PM
@Collin We're using TBB anyway.
 
@CatPlusPlus Ah, hadn't caught that
 
@Neil What's the point in having a separate galleried chatroom for the team, if not that it's, well, for the team?
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah, I dled a MinGW build, but not sure where to find
 
If we were on Windouz, we could en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_Patterns_Library
But TBB is made of win.
 
@DeadMG This room was meant to divert all the Kyrostat talk from Lounge<C++>, not to have our own private room, however in any case, I didn't let him in.
 
As Etienne stated not so long ago.
Can you guys decide it and formalize it in some sort of a document, I am willing to adapt to pretty much anything.
and let's all just work toward converging on this matter, otherwise shitty issues will arise later.
 
3:50 PM
So, What GCC we're gonna be sporting again ? 4.6+ ?
 
It was in the doc, I think.
4.6+ is absolute minimum, I'd be fine with 4.7+ as well.
 
Oh, ye, didn't see, nvm.
 
Modern, modern, modern.
 
user784668
@CatPlusPlus I'd tell everybody using GCC <= 4.6 to GTFO.
 
It would really be nice to sport an actual modern C++ engine & therefore game which smell like the newest specification. So, 4.7+ is fine by me.
 
3:53 PM
Also, we doin' audio? I've never done audio before.
 
I have, on multiple platforms. OpenAL sounds good.
Heh, sounds good.
 
Save that for lame pun Friday.
 
I just realized it's my brother's birthday today, I'm a shit person.
Maybe I should call.
Ew. Feelings.
 
@EtiennedeMartel There are command-line tools for that.
And otherwise just a good old shell script full of mkdirs and cps will do.
 
Just copy it into X.app directory and there, packaged.
 
3:56 PM
There's a little more to that, but that's basically it, yes.
 
oh no, not Cygwin :(
 
I did bundle support for Goblin Camp long ago.
 
why do I do this to myself
 
What do you need Cygwin for?
 
well, if I want GCC, that means MinGW
which apparently means Cygwin
 
3:57 PM
Not really, no.
Just download rubenvb's build of MGW64.
 
well I sure didn't ask for Cygwin but it's installing it anyway, which makes me think it needs it
 
What.
 
GCC is done installing. :(
 
@CatPlusPlus I did, actually. Eclipse won't recognize it.
 
I have no idea what you're doin.
 
3:59 PM
trying to set up an actual usable environment which uses GCC
 
Oh god, I hate this GCC nonsense :D
 
Eclipse must have a compiler path setting.
Don't make me download it just so I can tell you where it is. :P
 
It's preset with 4.5.something
 

  last day (27 days later) »