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00:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

Man. He should have said that 4th party libs are okay
00:30
And the day was saved thanks to changing the specs
More like the day was saved by realizing the protagonist was fighting windmills, thought the earth was flat but with nail clippings and oh yeah, what is programming?
Mix in entitlement at will. For reasons I won't get into.
@sehe lol
Good to see people have their priorities in order
00:47
@Mysticial you don’t even need the type to be standard layout, you can always walk the bytes to the start of an object and cast to the real type (although that’s of course Hell++ territory)
we need rough programming - AI to correct obvious spelling mistakes in code and highlight them for debugging purposes.
 
2 hours later…
02:45
Now, summarizing are you simply saying your weight is a function and it is too expensive to calculate ahead of time for any nodes (that might not be visited)? Because in that case, why not ask that, because the answer is make_transform_value_property_map (see e.g. Weight map as a function in Boost Graph and many others) — sehe 17 mins ago
The guy is probably just barking up the wrong tree, but surprisingly started moaning about the things BGL "doesn't let you do" (after he figured out precisely how to do the wrong-tree-bark, anyways)
03:02
Okay, so omse girl asked me how my day was. How do I say I've been doing 12 hours days without sounding like a bitch?
Maybe pretend my work has "value" or something, but that would be lying :-)
03:13
can work around it by lifting the data into its own base, but ya know
well, I know it’s supposed to work for c++2a but for c++17 I don’t remember which document to look up--eh the earliest mention of structured bindings I can find is in the n46xx drafts and they all cover that case, close enough
servo driver is delivered ... now all I am waiting for are the jumpers ...
@LucDanton clang trunk on godbolt
@Mikhail I don’t need no assembly!
@LucDanton xor eax,eax
your code sucks
how classical of you :)
03:34
apparently we need to pick one of SFINAE-friendliness or structured bindings (unrelated)
how come changing the wording for structured bindings wasn’t an option ._.
03:52
dang I think I found the PR before, oh well
I can’t believe I found it with the bugzilla built-in search but not with google
04:24
> En même temps vouloir construire l'aéroport de Nantes au sud de Bordeaux était un projet voué à l'échec depuis le debut.
05:20
Hello, quick question.
Is there a way to employ STL to get the max/min of several values not in a container?
for example max(a, b, c, ...)
you can chain them with the use of copy and paste
and I mean employing STL directly
std::max_element
they are not in a container
std::max(S,std::max(T,L))
05:22
I'm not worried about algorithmic implementation, but whether the syntactic sugar exists.
To rephrase my question? Is there an STL function that takes a variable number of arguments that returns the max or the min?
not that I am aware of
Ah, okay thanks. I'll just have to chain them then :)
Another unrelated question.
Is there a good (paperback) reference for C++17?
by paperback i mean any printed (or pdf) resources, not a reference website.
I would like something that I could read cover to cover, and websites are not really suitable for that.
Something like The C++ Standard Library: Tutorial and Reference. but updated.
auto screwy = {1,2,3,4};auto what = *std::max_element(screwy.begin(),screwy.end()); If you are lazy you can try something like this:
@J.L.Louis unfortunately it’s botched as std::min({ a, b, c, d})
Hi Luc, wouldn't {a, b, c, d} implicitly allocate additional memory in the background? That's what I'm trying to avoid.
05:28
TIL
@J.L.Louis it does not perform dynamic allocation
hmm, interesting
So how does it avoid allocating extra memory? Are all the elements pointers to their origins?
To be clear, I had the impression that STL functions were facilitated by the use of iterators if a container.
SO what I'm thinking is, if no extra memory was allocated, then {a, b, c, d} is not a container, therefore can't provide iterators
@J.L.Louis I would direct you to the specifics of std::initializer_list<Item>, which is what happens in this instance with the braces
so it does create a list.
but. .. without allocating more memory?
Man kicked off flight for wearing all his luggage to avoid fees
05:59
Anyway, thanks Mikhail and Luc!
@Loreto Thanks!
@J.L.Louis And print the pdf
06:24
Definitely, thanks!
06:44
@J.L.Louis let's say it another way: it requires no more memory than a plain function call with same arguments. There is no dynamic allocation in this case, only automatic i.e. on-stack.
@LucDanton The underlying array is a temporary array of type const T[N], in which each element is copy-initialized from the corresponding element of the original initializer list.
@EuriPinhollow function could be inlined
@Yola it can also be completely optimized out.
07:04
@Yola you really don’t need to explain
3
07:22
every variable is a constance of varied amount of time
It is not possible to apply an algorithm to a sequence ... without a sequence.
07:38
@Yola a variable can also be optimized out but it does not make less sense to say that one variable occupies some space if not in context of discussing optimizations.
@Loreto you cannot subscript named sequence (parameter list) but that does not prevent parameter list from being a sequence.
@Loreto why?
@Loreto You can call a function on arguments, poof!
Why are c++ programmers forever incredulous of the compiler.
Why are they still always falling into the same trap of assuming, not measuring.
It's a sad waste of time.
`struct C {
C(int i) : i(i) { cout << "cons " << i << endl; }
C(const C& other) : i(other.i) { cout << "copy with " << i << endl; }
bool operator<(const C& other) const { return i < other.i; }
int i;
};

int main() {
vector<C> vec1{ 1,2,3 };
C& mm = std::max({ vec1[2], vec1[0], vec1[1] });
return 0;
}`
> cons 1
cons 2
cons 3
copy with 1
copy with 2
copy with 3
copy with 3*
copy with 1*
copy with 2*
copy with 3
@LucDanton starred copies happened because of initializer_list
when I said you didn’t need to explain it wasn’t a call for more explanations
@LucDanton I'm sorry!!! You said dynamic
I also said not to explain
07:55
waiting for the very second when the whole lot of discussion disappears into another room, some sort of parallel universe of the cyber space ... kinda
@Yola godbolt.org/g/ZwS6SG stop explaining, just check
It's also funny to use std::vector in code trying so hard to avoid allocations.
@Yola max returns by value there, your code is invalid.
(I know MSVC will compile it, but that proves something about their compiler)
Also, I hope you've seen stackoverflow.com/questions/1452721/… before.
@Yola You're just proving something about the fact that non-trivial constructors cannot be optimized. Also, indeed if the type is non-trivial, perhaps don't select a "max" by value. Compare godbolt.org/g/Vz7wgK to godbolt.org/g/HwH3KZ
@J.L.Louis Here's a nice cheat coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/6bce62e9cdd1e826 (see also godbolt.org/g/5vrNVn - It optimizes reasonably well, to my surprise) /cc @Yola
08:11
@sehe i didn't try neither hard no easy to avoid allocation, all the intention was to show that using of initializer_list requires additional N*sizeof(T) memory. And i needed a class which would help me to show this.
Please, just READ the stuff. I did.
Yes, you are right, my weight is a function. Weight map as a function in Boost Graph is exactly what I want. Thank you. — 井上由一 25 mins ago
Wow. It's not everyday that the crystal ball works so well
Oh hahaha. I thought it was pretty bad nettiquette to not-even upvote but "You can upvote if you have gained the Vote Up privilege, awarded at 15 reputation."
@Yola dynamic is a specific term for kind of memory managed by malloc/new. Using initializer_list does not impose dynamic memory allocation. AND a function accepting by value would also cause copying. (Do we need referece initializer lists?)
@sehe Sorry, could you explain in words:) my Assembly isn't so good. I see that there are no copies because of refs, but probably you want me to see another point. Thanks!
@EuriPinhollow yes, and i'm not talking about dynamic allocation.
08:53
All "automatic storage" is equal: it's automatic. It may or may not actually exist in memory (in the case of int i = std::max({1,2,34,rand()%10}) it will all be registers, and the only thing compared are rand()%10 vs 34, the rest is known statically))
@Yola No, that was it. It answers the question in the strictest possible sense. Of course, if your types are expensive, your types will continue to be expensive. References prevent the copy (but at the cost of removing optimization opportunities due to aliasing rules - in this case I think the compiler can prove there is no aliasing though)
@VermillionAzure that's not something an algorithm can decide
@Yola then I do not get your point past that you wanted to explain something we already know.
@EuriPinhollow He is saying that de specification is in terms of "a list" or "an array of type T", so he assumes that the compiler must be making that, literally. He doesn't know the C++ specs are based on an abstract machine and all behaviour is subject to the as-if rule.
Well. Today he learned.
09:12
@sehe i never thought that if array is in code than it surely will get into binary. I think there is misunderstanding went on here. And i started it by reading not carefully enough Luc's message. Sorry for that.
nwp
nwp
@sehe That Q/A is so embarrassing for C++.
It says more about the community I think
nwp
nwp
You mean people have too high expectations? Or a lack of knowledge?
Lack of awareness (of both the language and their lack of knowledge)
nwp
nwp
09:29
I don't think having most people have enough awareness when writing that code to think that putting an array and the size into a struct would lead to performance degradation is realistic.
Most of the time you are being told that you can totally use structs, functions, templates and various other stuff and the compiler will just remove the abstraction layers without causing overhead.
Ven
Ven
09:47
Hi lounge
10:12
Hi Ven
 
3 hours later…
12:43
@nwp I still believe that to be the case. Let me revisit the post to see whether important information has surfaced since I read it (I read it when I linked it)
@LucDanton Petit prétentieux
(cela dit jerry)
I wonder why SJWs didn't pick up yet that a command that explains stuff to you is called "man".
@BartekBanachewicz because man woman isn't politically in-correct?
don't get your panties in a twist
linux uses 'man' command a lot
it's literal mansplaining
Ven
Ven
12:56
@BartekBanachewicz now you're getting triggered about people not getting triggered
holy head up your ass
makes me want to give another definition t that word :D
@Ven that's SJW level 3
@Morwenn yyyup
'man cat' isn't a male cat on bash
@Morwenn lol
@BartekBanachewicz I actually have alias xir = man
what's xir
> A person that thinks very high of himself due to his financial status.
> more masculine nonbinary people
lmao those comments
> when you pull down your pants, what is actually there?
Ven
Ven
"a phat donger"
2
Q: can't code in c, nothing helps

SketchI'm trying to write a basic program in C using gedit or sublime text (which I prefer), but no matter what I do when I try to compile or run, or even while writing, I have no option to use 'stdio.h' or any similar package. Even when I start typing #include <st the only word completion sublime sugg...

@Mysticial @Borgleader dat title
@Ven lol
@milleniumbug lol
@ArkadiuszKoćma I mean you really have to be in a pretty deep 1st world entitlement shithole to really have time for inventing such crap
if xe was born on a farm xe'd spend the day working and not doing idiotic YT videos
13:12
I don't really know what goes in the head of these people either tbh but whatever xloats their xoat, I guess
I think it's mostly boredom and lack of willpower to be meaningfully noted for something that matters
everyone wants to be and feel unique but not everyone is willing to put in actual work to be a better person
Of all things that could be done for gender equality this is one of the most ridiculous and meaningless ones IMO
Ven
Ven
As opposed to you, Bartek, who is meaningfully noted by turning designs upside down.
@Ven some people on the polish js group actually tried to mock me for that
well joke's on them, at least my designs don't involve planning for framework change every 6 4 2 weeks
Ven
Ven
don't finish your sentences?
13:14
> polish js group
it doesn't get much worse than that
@ArkadiuszKoćma forgot to add "on FB"
on the bright side I guess they're not black so there's that
inb4 this user has been suspended blah blah blah
> bright side
> not black
inb4 we're all casual racists when we tell someone to "lighten up"
Ven
Ven
presses the report buttan
motive of report: wrongthink
13:18
@BartekBanachewicz please untwist your panties, that must be really uncomfortable
@BartekBanachewicz Also what's going on in your local 2nd world shithole atm? Seems politicians were born in the middle ages
most of the population too actually
@ArkadiuszKoćma regular fuckery
the UE is still waving the stick around and the govt keeps insisting everything is fine
in the meantime pushing for radical abortion laws
that's too bad, polen was really taking off ._.
pls don't do a turkey on us thx
and the opposition parties are all getting shittier by the day, so there's no alternative in the next election
@ArkadiuszKoćma there's a high chance it'll end up as a catholic socialdemocracy
i mean everyone's trying to do something but the opposition is just failing so miserably that there's no legal ground for anything
maybe if the PiS leader finally dies
they'll jump to each other's throats and then maybe something will change
I find it quite funny that they're battling against Tusk who's Polish himself
13:23
they're this close || to basically renouncing his citizenship
in the media he's a traitor
I mean they can't really do much, but sure, he was dragged to courts over some bullshit just to smear his reputation
oh also our entire healthcare is boycotting in the meantime, not being able to raise the funding
recently they found a doctor dead in a hospital after doing like a 40hr stint or something
but if you ask anyone that supports the main party then everything is fine basically
13:40
anybody good at batch scripting
since this room is not about c++
Ven
Ven
@CoderCat Batch???
oh my god
@CoderCat lol
yep for now
it's impossible to be good at it
that's like saying you're good at php
:S
is anybody terrible at batch?
13:42
batch is one of the technologies you learn just the precise amount to get the job done then go take a shower, have a drink and forget everything
I am trying to figure out how to parse the hostnames from net view into net use
sucks to be you
its just to get a job done quick, its not an elegant solution yet
ill use C++ later
nwp
nwp
If you need it to work soon use Python, not batch files.
id have to learn python
which wont take soon :/
13:45
that's gonna be quicker than learning batch
Perl, not Python!
@wilx oh fuck off
we were actually trying to help someone for once
13:45
@wilx that speaks of your age
@TelautonomousKitty And experience!
sure ... sure ... >_<
also I have mixed feelings about my ESA t-shirts
I mean they're cool
but the print quality is eh
nwp
nwp
@CoderCat If you are decent at any reasonable programming language picking up python will be very fast.
python is like the lowest common denominator
13:47
im a C newbie, tried javascript before that
nwp
nwp
close enough
ok ill give it a try
@milleniumbug nothing helps D:
@wilx not everybody is into S&M
I thought python would not be as close to the bare metal as c++
13:48
@CoderCat oh now you fuck off
why do you even care about "bare metal"
every time you use "bare metal" in the context of programming languages a transistor dies
because I'm remotely controlling several VMs with a script file
lol and why would you need "bare metal" for this
if your response has the word "performance" in it I'm blocking you
13:49
noo
@CoderCat what OS?
windows XP
because some OS's require drivers to access the filesystem, etc
such as javascript
he means "libraries"
obvious troll is obvious
13:51
this is what the javascript chatroom told me
so im not a troll.
Ven
Ven
yawn
yeah, but they trolled you
Ven
Ven
ENOTEVENFUNNY
so now you're repeating that and trolling us
one can't be that clueless, so I assume they're trolling
13:51
repeated*
they said for JS to modify files in windows, you have to write a driver in C
that's an interesting bullshit
5
depends on what you run the JS in
web browser
in a browser you don't get access to the local file system
it was the servers filesystem not local
13:54
ergh... 'drivers' are low level shit that the OS use to do magical things
I thought node.js could do it
@CoderCat you're so way off your goal it's stopping to be funny
JS just needs a lib to talk to the OS
1 min ago, by CoderCat
web browser
library != driver
13:54
@thecoshman actually
@CoderCat then you send a http request to the server which then does the file access on the server
@BartekBanachewicz Que?
I no longer have the JS goal it was just an example
I'm just running a batch script which edits data on a bunch of network drives
what is the rep required to chat?
is it 30?
@thecoshman some DB access libraries are commonly called drivers
@ScarletAmaranth 20 iirc
13:56
mm; so we need 12, that's 6 downvotes?
@BartekBanachewicz yeah, but they are badlets
@ScarletAmaranth Chat privilege can't be revoked IIRC
that's a pity
@ArkadiuszKoćma it is after logout/login iirc
> Decryption is extremely slow as it is implemented in native Python rather than C.
lmao
no delusions
14:41
lol that's some interesting chat ban
 
1 hour later…
16:05
@BartekBanachewicz because native python can only brute force decrypt
16:17
@sehe Yeah, I think accident is kind of the wrong idea here. Mostly a situation with Dave Cutler (and the NT team in general) having a clue, but the UI having to maintain (some degree of) compatibility with MS-DOS, so it was pretty much stuck with being a mess.
16:33
Accidental it is :)
It's not intrinsic complexity, so it's accidental
(the accident being evolution)
unguided evolution
@sehe you can call it mutation
I can call it cheese cake
No the cake is a lie
Is 256 intended to be UCHAR_MAX + 1? Please don't encourage non-portable assumptions! — Toby Speight 2 hours ago
Gosh. It has been a looong time since an answer of mine got trolled.
That's what I get for answering 1 question outside the boost tag, and from proper
16:46
I got five reps from an old question the other day.
A company that has 5 devs on the team
Ven
Ven
> I just did not quit multithreading))
never go full multithreading
but it's among my issues once execution policies are available :o
17:09
in Python, 46 mins ago, by Kevin
O(256^N) runtime is good enough if you have a really fast computer
@Morwenn yeah. I was disappointed that I still couldn't find a platform that supports it
@EuriPinhollow Or if N is 0
@sehe apparently the work is huge
And if the constants are still negligible
Intel proposed their implementation to libc++ and libstdc++ though
@Morwenn I'm absolutely not surprised. TBH I think the whole endeavour is useless (for standardization)
Executors + Networking? Hell yes! Backporting to c++03 style STL, mwah
17:11
I mean, standardizing execution policies is great to have a standardized interface, but making every algorithm parallel is a big piece of work for implementers x)
And I doubt it will be very useful, except for for_each(std::execution::par_unseq over contiguous primitive data. (SIMD/AVX etc)
@sehe or if O equals 0 and then multiplying O and any number would be 0.
0 always equals 0. Did you mean "O"? Because that doesn't signify a constant in that notation
on the other hand implementers could provide execution policies and only implement the parallel versions of standard algorithms when they find the time v0v
@sehe you are doing it wrong, you need to compose even more bizzare remark instead of appealing to logic to win the game.
18:10
@Morwenn Then you might end up with shit like std::async's default policy that nobody uses in Linux because GCC doesn't have a real implementation of it. (and I think still don't have a one)
Windows actually does it right. But that's probably because it has a native thread pool in the OS which the Windows compilers simply point at for std::async.
Hey look:
41
A: Why don't modern heavy bombers have gun turrets?

Jerry CoffinThere are really two reasons. First, fighter tactics have evolved over time, and second, the role of the B-52 has evolved over time. Fighter tactics Fighters used to depend (heavily) upon getting fairly close to an enemy, and shooting it down with a machine gun. Over the years, guns have become...

@Mysticial well, that's also the perks of having several main implementations :/
Granted, a general-purpose thread-pool that won't blow up pathological cases is actually quite difficult to write.
Windows has one native in the OS. Intel has several of them in TBB/Cilk and family.
at least it's nice from Intel to propose their implementation of parallel algorithms to both libc++ and libstdc++
that way both standard libs win & suck the same
I have a thread pool implementation as well. But it blows up if you spam it with millions of tasks in a very short amount of time.
18:53
@Mysticial most do
@Morwenn what is the difference between libc++ and libstdc++? And why are there two?
Wasn't Jerry in the USAF at one point?
@EtiennedeMartel yes
@Code-Apprentice one was originally for g++ and the other one for clang++
also not the same license
@Mgetz While I haven't tested it, I don't think the Windows' nor Intel's thread pools will blow up if you do that. It will almost certainly slow them down and result in high memory consumption of whatever queue is inside.
My thread pool will spawn a new thread if there are no available threads. So if you have 1 million simultaneous tasks, it will result in a million threads.
18:58
@Mysticial can't say I haven't tried it, the windows one IIRC is built on QueueUserAPC
19:24
@StackedCrooked @Mysticial so it seems no good anime for this winter season started airing? (taking a look at myanimelist.net/anime/season, everything seems meh); comments? :)
Just realized I you can interpret SIGUSR1 and SIGUSR2 as bits. This would allow passing messages to processes using a sequence of kill commands.
@ScarletAmaranth Overlord season 2.
But that's the only one I've started watching for now.
worth watching along with the s.1?
You should watch S1 first.
(I am happy that mahoutskai no yome continues!)
@ScarletAmaranth Yeah.
19:26
I think it's a little worse than it was towards the end before the pause but I might be imagining this
OH, cool. There'll be a new Full Metal Panic season in spring.
I always giggle a bit when I see "panic" used in various context, as the word means "virgin" in Slovak; so it's a full metal virgin for me
@ScarletAmaranth I haven't started looking at this season yet.
Too much stuff going on atm.
alrighty, thanks! I might try to check out the first season of Overlord and see if I want to continue to watch all the way up to s2
And still catching up from last season.
20:02
@EuriPinhollow not sure where he took the 256^N but I hope you didn't think I was serious.
It's just if you have the private keys, decrypting a cipher text isn't much expensive for the CPU. From what I remember the encryption/decryption algorithm are usually quite simple.
It's generating big keys that is the most expensive task. As for the 256^N from what I remember cryptography is a NP problem. The level of security of a private key is greatly dependant on how fast a computer can brute force it.
I wonder if there is an actual quantum computer that has already been used to crack RSA
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix potentially but if so it's probably classified
I read a couple of years ago that RSA wouldn't be as vulnerable as Diffie Hellman for key sharing when quantum computer would be available. It had to do with the CIA going to drop DH as a technology to be used
Thought, one could think the CIA is just recommending the thing they can crack
ahh or it was the elliptic curves but I don't remember. Never had to do anything concrete with elliptic curves
20:18
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix the problem with knowing of a vuln is that your enemy could have found it too, moreover even if they don't currently they could always have spies that steal it
so any vuln like that would be an 'OH 💩!' moment
From what I remember the only recommendation for RSA what to create even bigger keys.
As for vulnerability I feel the big problem is that the CIA for example doesn't seem to disclose them but instead use them as exploit. Which kind of make things even less vulnerable because "enemies" could be aware of the vulnerability and just be quiet about it too
Which is ironic because you'd have organization using exploit in a technology that is supposed to be secure for the sake of "security".
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix if NSA found out about this they would be royally pissed. Part of their job is preventing economic attacks on US Banks and such. Don't believe for a second that various bad actors wouldn't take the opportunity to severely damage the US economy and confidence in the US Banking system if they could.
@EtiennedeMartel Was in the USAF, and worked on B-52s (which still had tail-gunners at the time). Oh, and we had (as a static display, long-since retired) one of the two B-52s that actually shot down a MiG. Still had to be maintained to some degree to keep it from just rusting to pieces though, so I got to do a little bit of work on that exact plane.
@Mgetz possibly but I'm more keen to believe that bad actors that would have this kind of possibilities would try to be kept undetected for as long as possible. You can do a lot of damage just by knowing where moneys is going.
@Mgetz ...with the proviso that when you look carefully, you start to realize that the banking system in general takes something like billions of dollars in losses from cyber-attacks (and such) simply as a matter of course.
20:31
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix depends on the bad actor, but given we're pretty sure that what @JerryCoffin just said is true and those actors are probably APTs it depends on motivation. I know DPRK would just burn everything most likely; Russia would burn anyone that they wouldn't get hurt by burning... etc.
@JerryCoffin were you allowed to fly that thing?
@JerryCoffin weren't there B-52 tail gunner Aces?
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix No--it would have taken massive work to get it ready to fly. I doubt it'll ever fly again.
@Mgetz I reasonably certain the answer is no, though I'm not sure where you'd get information to absolutely confirm that.
@JerryCoffin usually static display airframes have already hit lifetime hours IIRC and are unsafe to fly anyway due to metal fatigue.
@JerryCoffin Then I really don't understand why they make people work on a plane that can't fly.
20:37
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Museum?
So the XKCD about military bases in the US being museum isn't much of a joke?
@JerryCoffin you're correct, but they are the only vietnam era air to air kills that are not flight officers
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Two obvious reasons. First, without at least a little maintenance, it'll just rust to pieces. Second, military personnel are hired largely to provide capability in case of war; during peacetime they typically have a fair amount of time on their hands. A fair amount of work is put into keeping them busy doing something, which is a large part of the reason for all the spit and polish, room inspections, etc.
That applies a lot more to the Army and Marines than Air Force though--we weren't patching up battle damage, but otherwise had about the same work to do on aircraft as we would during a war. More in some cases--when you load bombs during peacetime, you have to unload them again later.
For what it's worth, here's the plane in question: google.com/maps/place/…
@JerryCoffin my understanding is this is less true outside of bootcamp, the emphasis on training takes priority.
That's true, but I'd expect that since people have a lot of time on their hand, they should probably spend their time making things that matters. Being combat ready is one thing, even if the plane could fly, without training I'd guess it would be difficult to be combat ready.
ah yeah, cool. If they ever want to make thing thing fly they'll have to cut a lot of trees around it.
20:46
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Oh, we definitely did a lot of training too. Keep in mind that the work I did on that plane was (going from distant memory, so imprecise) something on the order of 8 hours out of roughly 4 years.
The other thing to realize is that maintenance takes a good chunk of time too, the rational being that everything needs to be in perfect shape in case of war.
If you scroll a bit to the south in that map, you'll find a C-47 (the one with three white stripes on each wing). As luck would have it, I spent (quite a bit) more time working on that one. It had been owned by NASA for a while, so when it arrived at Fairchild it was painted in NASA white and blue. I was (more or less) in charge of the team that did quite a bit of the decommissioning, re-painting, etc.
C-47 is a transport plane right?
But the B-52 is still quite big compared to all the other planes.
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Yes--WWII vintage. This one was used in the D-day invasion, and that paint scheme is what it wore on D-day.
20:53
I remember as a kid I had a game that never worked but the book was more interesting. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aces_of_the_Pacific
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix B-52s are big planes. To put the size in perspective, look at the fuel tank toward the tip of each wing. Each of those tip tanks holds 3000 gallons of fuel.
@JerryCoffin congress is finally ordering the Air Force to re-engine those beasts, to the joy of just about every airman who's ever had to maintain them.
@Mgetz Not so much a matter of "ordered them to" as "gave them the budget so they're allowed to". A number of times the Air Force has done studies and asked to be allowed to re-engine them, mostly with the idea that doing so would extend their range, increasing their capabilities. Previously, congress turned them down because they fly little enough that replacing the engines would cost more than the fuel it would save.
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