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1:16 PM
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Q: Why can't red interface with node.js while rebol can?

user310291I just stumbled upon this: https://trello.com/c/yGGIM3Hl/32-nodejs-interface-for-rebol-to-pave-the-way-for-red While Red doesn't build on a standard toolchain and is not something you can add in wrapped up as a native node.js NPM package, Rebol can do just that today (if someone were willing to...

 
 
1 hour later…
2:45 PM
@HostileFork Just my two cents of course, but I think all those colons is a bit of a cognitive burden for what I think is a common use case, namely, scores: [Bill 7 Ted 8].
 
 
2 hours later…
4:19 PM
@MarkI I'd like us to talk about what these common use cases are, because what the problem is, is that I know the insides of the code well enough to know where there are weaknesses... "code smells" as they say. And when there are 12 different kinds of equality, there is a problem.
I see this as parallel to all the internal problems one sees when you start having things like UNSET! is a value, and BLANK! is a value, and you can't write correct code to deal with things like the difference between select [a _] 'a and select [a] 'a because they appear to be the same.
And over time, we talked about applications and common cases and the interesting answer came to be that there's an "honest" primitive, SELECT*, which gives the "truthful" answer...and then usermode SELECT chain which masks the correct answer with "blankification" for convenience since a lot of people don't care. But the "lot of people don't care" doesn't fit with those who are trying to write generic code that doesn't crash and burn.
If you're inside Rebol's code itself, writing GC or whatever, you can't afford the casual indifference that has so frequently characterized this subculture. Every branch in the switch() or the if() needs to have an answer, everything has to line up. It's easy as a user to have a DWIM attitude "do-what-i-mean" but if you want a working system you have to get more formal than that.
What we're dealing with here is an extra form of equality... pickquality. I don't see the value in block: [foo #bar bar bar:] with block/bar being bar.
And to me, one of Rebol's "statements" was in fact that SET-WORD! is part of the deal. From: hostilefork@example.com To: mark@example.com Subject: {This was part of the manifesto.} {We don't follow rules, there's no Body: here, so the skip count isn't applicable}
@rgchris ^--
The skip count with structure of 2 is a matter IMO of not having a decent representation for maps, and faking it with blocks misses the point of what makes Rebol unique, namely that you don't think in those rigid key/value terms
Oct 10 at 0:07, by Edoc
@HostileFork I like the way you approach it. Amplify the traits which make Rebol unique.
I'm open to letting PICK (which is now equivalent to "pathing") be weird but I'm not feeling the odd/even thing.
Carl did argue that Key: Value was Rebol's parallel to <Key>Value</Key>
And it all boils down to invariance. Who's writing this code that is supposed to be able to remain unchanged when you morph scores: [Bill: 7 Ted: 8] into scores: [Bill 7 Ted 8] or scores: [#Bill 7 'Ted 8]?
If these invariances are nonsense (I believe they are) then I don't see why having to use a construct that says what kind of thing you're looking for, scores/'bill vs scores/bill vs. scores/[#bill] is so bad.
 
5:18 PM
posted on October 24, 2017 by hostilefork

>> z: "will this be overwritten" == "will this be overwritten" >> foo: function [x] [ obj: make object! [y: 10] obj/(z: "yep" 'y): x ] >> foo 100 == 100 >> z == "yep" The enumeration in COLLECT-WORDS/DEEP only considers BLOCK! and GROUP! values when descending, but GROUP!s or BLOCK!s in ANY-PATH! are not considered.

 
5:39 PM
^-- As per usual, @GeekyI @rebolek and other Red-involved folks, same problem in Red, if anyone cares to report it.
 
 
1 hour later…
6:47 PM
@rgchris What about write out:// {Is this a better name for stdout?} and read in:// {Is this a better name for stdin?} and write error:// {How about this for stderr}?
3
std and :// are the same number of characters
 
7:22 PM
@HostileFork You know those are URLs, right? Although I suppose we can be reasonably sure IANA won't be assigning those particular ones, it is still a risk.
Also, there is no particular requirement for the double slashes, is there? One could do just fine IMO.
In any case, GREAT idea!!!
 
 
1 hour later…
8:38 PM
@HostileFork Yeah, not bad at all. Just throwing this out there for arguments sake, could restrict it to one scheme: write std:out #{DECAFBAD} | read std:in | write std:err {Nothing good}
(or shortened to io:in | io:out | io:err)
2
 
 
2 hours later…
10:49 PM
making pathing accept a BLOCK! and assume you mean to pick after that seems parallel to SELECT. select [a b c] [a b] is c. So if PICK defers to select mechanics a lot of the time, and if pathing defers to pick, pick [a b c] [a b] being c doesn't seem out of line nor does block: [a b c] | block/[a b] being c.
@MarkI This is the only use case spoken up for in "pickquality"... not wanting to use Bill: so you use Bill.
 
11:06 PM
Should COLLECT-WORDS on [a/b/c] give you [a b c]? If not, should COLLECT-WORDS on [a/(b)/(c)] give you [b c]?
 

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