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15:00
@sehe A Dutch guy? I wonder why he hosts the blog at blogspot.pt then.
ironic that the background of that fork is horrific manual memory management
@sehe Lots of distros still pack GCC 4.6.
I don't consider GCC 4.6 as must upgrade.
user784668
@DeadMG The thing is written in Delphi, after all.
hello all
@sehe Oh, wait, is this at blogspot.pt because Google redirects me to it? Disregard that comment.
15:02
If i want to develop a website filter, how can I start what tools I need?
To Google: I hate you. If I want the pt version of a website I can go there myself.
Hey guys is there a workaround for this

`template<typename T>`
`struct Foo{};`

#define Foo<int> Bar /* error */
@newbieLinuxCpp Like, a thing to prevent users from browsing certain sites?
That's platform specific, for starters.
@Olumide Sounds like alias templates, C++11 feature.
@RMartinhoFernandes yes
@RMartinhoFernandes Drat! All the good stuff is in C++ 11
4
15:05
@Olumide Totally true. I mentioned several times before that I don't know how you guys could live with C++03. It's an experience I don't regret missing.
(Though I did live without alias templates for a while. Once I got my hands on the first GCC build that supported them, I just went nuts and now I use them practically everywhere)
user image
4
user784668
@RMartinhoFernandes lol
@RMartinhoFernandes My company has not authorized the move yet. What I'm doing is an attempt to find an alternative to the lack of templated typedefs in C++ 03
user784668
@RMartinhoFernandes Circular lists FTW!
@RMartinhoFernandes I was deriving that from the projectname in the screenshot "Robotbesturing"
"Robotbesturing" --> robot control
Must be a subliminal message in there
@Olumide I think you're stuck with template <typename> struct foo_impl; template <typename T> struct foo { typedef foo_impl<T> type; }; template <> struct foo<int> { typedef bar type; } :(
@sehe I admit nothing and deny everything.
No counterattack this time.
15:09
@RMartinhoFernandes Before I reply. How do you highlight code in your chats? Backticks no longer work -- or so it seems.
user784668
@RMartinhoFernandes fuck, that's ugly.
@Olumide Just don't use multiline messages. The only formatting that works on multiline messages is making everything code by indenting every line four spaces.
@RMartinhoFernandes +1, so true :D
@sehe Yeah, I saw that. It's the damn local domain site redirection crap.
Really, what's the point of giving me the choice of language in your browser settings if you're going to redirect me anyway?
user784668
15:16
If I have a lot of highly repetitive code to write, is it a good idea to (ab)use preprocessor macros, or should I just write some Python or something that will generate it?
@RMartinhoFernandes does anyone honour the preferred language a browser sends?
@awoodland I think not.
@RMartinhoFernandes what's the deal with the domain name alias, if there is no functional difference anyway
@sehe It displays some crap in Portuguese.
@sehe wasn't there something about "respecting local laws"
15:17
@Fanael one word: vim.
user784668
@sehe No, vim macros won't do. It'll quickly become a nightmare to maintain.
@RMartinhoFernandes Really? Not with me. It's in English. The same as when I visit .com.
@Fanael ?! Vim script is turing complete. It has python, perl and ruby support. What part of that won't 'do it'?
@Fanael consider writing a codegen. Consider using t4 templates (esp. on VS)
@sehe There's a bar at the top with options for flagging abuse, searching, signing to blogger, etc. That's in Portuguese. I don't use it, but it pisses me off.
@Fanael go for preprocessor, as that way your clever solution will shown of to all who look at the source :D
@Fanael I think code gen is one of the few uses left for the preprocessor.
15:20
It's in Dutch for me, and it doesn't matter whether the domain is .com or .pt
My point: it doesn't matter
Well, that pisses me off even more.
My browser is set to prefer, in this order: English (UK), English (US). There is no Portuguese anywhere in those settings.
I knew it, but at least know you understand correctly what to direct your anger at.
@RMartinhoFernandes I bet Google is using settings from your google account. Are you logged into to it?
@sehe No.
And I'm pretty sure those settings are set to prefer English as well.
Can anyone please recommend any books or resources (the latter would be better) on C++ 11 for the C++ 03 programmer (moi)? Thanks

I just want to learn about *all* the new features
user784668
So, what's the minimum maximum width of source line compilers are required to handle?
15:23
Portuguese translations out there in the Web are commonly to Brazilian Portuguese, and I understand English better than Brazilian Portuguese so I avoid Portuguese translations like the plague.
@Olumide I usually recommend the wikipedia page (nice overview) and Bjarne's page for starters.
is a good place too.
@RMartinhoFernandes Then it's GeoIP, since I most likely have En-US in all my prefs too
I'm not aware of any good C++11 books out yet
C++ Concurrency in Action is completely C++11.
@RMartinhoFernandes Thanks. I was looking for an easy read but I'll give the wikipedia page a try. I don't like the font that Bjarne uses in is papers. M$ word ... bleh!
It doesn't cover all the new features though.
15:25
@RMartinhoFernandes Is it that different?
@awoodland Apparently the new josuttis isn't too bad. And the concurrency book got commended by the robot
@Olumide wut. I don't like the font. Meh
@EtiennedeMartel The phonetics and grammar and shit are mostly the same but Brazilians use different words for many things.
There are also a few papers on specific features out there.
If they're not listed in the tag wiki, they should be. checks
@RMartinhoFernandes is this a UK vs US English sort of thing, or is it a lot worse then that?
Yep, there's a list. @Olumide: check this: stackoverflow.com/tags/c%2b%2b11/info
that sounds a lot worse
AmE is dodgy, but not difficult for a BrE speaker
children commit worse spelling/grammar violations, so all you have to do is treat the American speaker like a child and you're done
15:28
@thecoshman It's not "color" vs "colour". It's more like "lift" vs "elevator", except we're not as used to encountering Brazilian as British are to encountering American.
guys short question, is there anyway that I can say the compiler that I don't want \ to treat as escape character?
@bamboon Yes, by escaping it.
there was a good answer on exactly that today
At least I am not, though that can also be a side-effect of my avoidance of it... Self-fulfilling prophecy. whistles
@bamboon '\\'.
15:30
Ah, the dreaded "type a code-formatted backslash in Markdown" crap.
The short answer was raw string literal
Markdown can suck a flamethrower.
@bamboon C++11 has raw strings: R"(inside these parentheses backslashes are not magic: \n is not a newline, it's a backslash followed by an n)"
@RMartinhoFernandes yeah, I wouldn't even be able to tell you if which, of 'lift' and 'elevator' is the English English
user784668
@RMartinhoFernandes that sounds better than German dialects. I'm completely unable to understand what e.g. Bavarians are talking. Unless they're using standard German, that is.
15:31
@thecoshman Lift.
20
A: Define std::string in C++ without escape characters

juanchopanzaYou can do it with C++11 raw string literals: std::string st = R"(C:\program files\myFile.txt)";

but the robot is right, AmE is quite pervasive even in the UK
@RMartinhoFernandes I understand that to Catalonians, Portuguese people just sounds drunk :P
@RMartinhoFernandes ah yeah cool thanks, I knew I read it somewhere, but forgot it where
@awoodland thanks for the link
@thecoshman From the little I know of Spanish languages, Catalán is even quite different from Castillian.
15:34
@RMartinhoFernandes Thanks! I've just made a PDF from the Wikipedia article.
@RMartinhoFernandes form what little I know, Catalonia is funny place
Galician OTOH is pretty close to Portuguese, close enough that the EU parliament accepts it as an oral substitute for Portuguese.
hello, I think I might've made a retarded answer, but I'm pretty sure it's "correct"
-2
A: namespaces in c++

std''OrgnlDaveInclude the a header that defines the variables you want to use, in server.h. Because of include guard, you don't have to worry about including it more than once. However, there is a caveat. If you'd like the variables to not be const, they have to "live" inside one of the .cpp files. To do this...

have extern's changed since I last used them in that you can declare it extern in the header and then re-define it in a .cpp that includes that header without an error?
any thoughts?
15:46
Oooh, a compiler bug due to a defect report: stackoverflow.com/a/10509813/46642. I wonder what's the point of having the official standard document if it's not correct anymore?
@stdOrgnlDave I do agree with commenters that that is over-complicated, but for me that's not enough to warrant a downvote.
@RMartinhoFernandes what is a less-complicated way of doing it other than devoting a .cpp simply to "hold" externs?
I'd just put the extern declarations in the header, and the definitions directly in the appropriate source file.
and header dependencies...?
@RMartinhoFernandes agreed
@stdOrgnlDave Erm, the same as your solution.
15:50
@stdOrgnlDave exactly that. Put globals in a cpp file. That's how it's supposed to work
@MooingDuck that means you have to cache an entire portion of the program you may not have to otherwise, simply to access an extern variable
@stdOrgnlDave What?
@stdOrgnlDave say what now? cache it?
I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.
yes. say my server.cpp is humming along and then needs an extern, but the part of the program where that variable is isn't cached. time to waste cache space and memory bandwidth for a single int!
15:52
Put the definition in server.cpp?
@RMartinhoFernandes and when server.h needs the variables to define the class, then what?
@stdOrgnlDave It has an extern declaration?
@stdOrgnlDave I don't think you know how things work
Maybe you should put up an example that you think is problematic, so I can better understand your point.
@stdOrgnlDave it only loads the one int into cache, not entire translation units
15:53
that would require multiple files. I'll do it if you answer this: if you declare something extern, and then declare it again in the same TU, don't you get an error?
@stdOrgnlDave No.
@stdOrgnlDave besides, if it just needs one, declare it in the cpp file, and don't include the header.
@MooingDuck since when does cache become so selective? you would need 2x the amount of cache, one simply to track which single piece of memory may be in which spot
@MooingDuck what if the header needs the variable
@stdOrgnlDave are you talking about compiling or running?
Really, post an example. There's a communication mismatch going on.
15:54
@RMartinhoFernandes oh? I always used to get them, maybe it's different now, I'll go check
@stdOrgnlDave if it needs the value, make is extern const, and give it the value, and everything works fine still
Code speaks louder than words.
@MooingDuck not if it's not a const...sigh...
torn between next feature for RTS
@stdOrgnlDave then you don't need the value in the header file, it's really quite a simple matter, you just keep claiming it doesn't work
15:55
multiplayer... or formations...?
@stdOrgnlDave look at Luchian's answer. It works just fine in all scenarios, and is much simpler and clearer than yours.
@DeadMG multiplayer. The sooner you get that in the better the end product turns out
@DeadMG I thought you were already doing formations.
@stdOrgnlDave The example above works fine.
@RMartinhoFernandes I was thinking about it. Not actually doing anything about it.
Ah.
If it were me, I'd do formations. No special reason, other than I don't enjoy designing network protocols.
// main.h
extern int a;

// main.cpp
int a = 4;

that always used to cause me errors, like back in the DJGPP days, but I try it now and it works fine. I guess I unlearned that habit the hard way
15:59
I need to work on the UI anyway, realistically
@stdOrgnlDave That was a compiler issue then. DJGPP was in the time of ancient GCC.
yep.
so I unlearned the hard way :-P
in any case
what I definitely require is additional fluids
@DeadMG does your multiplayer need to be deterministic?
@DeadMG Like, caffeine?
16:03
@stdOrgnlDave yes
@RMartinhoFernandes no, Coke and ginger beer
AFAIK coke is perfectly enjoyable source of caffeine.
pretty sure this stuff doesn't have caffeine in
anyway, brb
Oh, there's a caffeine-free variant, but the regular and light variants have caffeine.
@DeadMG @DeadMG I think network vs formations is a hard choice. keeping state in lock-step with AI&Gameplay across a network isn't a trivial challenge. you have to choose between starting when the gameplay logic is mostly finalized, or bringing the network code up to speed all the time when you refine gameplay. but since multiplayer needs to be deterministic (unless you are going to transmit...
...each players' state at set intervals), it must inform how gameplay decisions are made: they must be deterministic. working on network alongside gameplay helps make sure you don't make an assumption during gameplay coding that makes your life a nightmare when you have to make add network-play later on
Coca-Cola is a carbonated soft drink sold in stores, restaurants, and vending machines in more than 200 countries. It is produced by The Coca-Cola Company of Atlanta, Georgia, and is often referred to simply as Coke (a registered trademark of The Coca-Cola Company in the United States since March 27, 1944). Originally intended as a patent medicine when it was invented in the late 19th century by John Pemberton, Coca-Cola was bought out by businessman Asa Griggs Candler, whose marketing tactics led Coke to its dominance of the world soft-drink market throughout the 20th century. The ...
16:06
@RMartinhoFernandes you have my total agreement there :)
the last attempt I had at online play was based around the idea of every object being described by its equations of motion and having a time at which one equation stopped being valid and another started. that meant for long term actions everything was always perfect in every frame you draw, but it also meant that if you missed an instruction you just rewrote a small slice of history to fix things
@awoodland what you mean is it was a first-person shooter and you used linear predictions (player was moving at last packet, keep them moving like that until you hear differently), more or less?
it wasn't FPS
it was more like RTS
and they weren't all linear
anything you can efficiently evaluate at an arbitrary time works for it
and you avoid numerical issues because you don't compute positions iteratively
@stdOrgnlDave also contains the ability to rewrite history, makes synch easier
@RMartinhoFernandes And sugar.
16:13
@awoodland was it web scale? j/k. really though large did you end up scaling it? hundreds of units? did you use physics aside from collision detection?
hehe, webscale.
@stdOrgnlDave I tested it up to about 100 I think and decided the gameplay sucked and I had no idea how to fix that
Jez
Jez
Hi, anyone have any experience with doing Win32 debugging with Ollydbg?
@Jez yup
'debugging' :)
Jez
Jez
16:15
@sehe I have a bit of a mystery
I'm trying to use OllyDbg to debug a program in Win32, XP. I'm breaking on a call to RtlGetVersion but it doesn't seem to put the whole RTL_OSVERSIONINFOEXW structure into memory (including the major and minor service pack numbers) - any idea why that might be?
Good. Don't tell :)
@Jez Erm... Nope. Are you analysing disassembly or actively tracing through that? At return from the call, you'd expect the whole struct to be filled. Most Win32 API's expect the buffer to be allocated by the caller.
Jez
Jez
tracing thru it
@Jez Should you by any chance be calling RtlGetVersionEx?
Jez
Jez
from the docs, it looks like even RtlGetVersion may fill out a whole OSVERSIONINFOEX structure, no?
> pVersionInformation [out]

Pointer to either a RTL_OSVERSIONINFOW structure or a RTL_OSVERSIONINFOEXW structure that contains the version information about the currently running operating system. A caller specifies which input structure is used by setting the dwOSVersionInfoSize member of the structure to the size in bytes of the structure that is used.
So yes, you are right. However, do you pass the correct dwOSVersionInfoSize value?
Jez
Jez
16:18
also, this isn't me, it's kernel32
@Jez Why do you care what kernel32 passes internally? Does it break somehow?
Perhaps you need to set WINVER high enough or check the programs compatibility settings. If, e.g. it is configured for Win98 compatibility, chances are it will behave differenly
Jez
Jez
@sehe I want to fool the exe into thinking I'm running SP3, and i need to figure out where it's getting the major/minor SP versions from
'Schwangerschaftverhütungsmittel' is German for 'contraceptive'. By the time you’ve finished saying it, it’s too late (via @HutInAField)
Jez
Jez
as for dwOSVersionInfoSize, the first 32 bits are 14 01 00 00
at the address pointed to
@sehe I'm in XP, running SP2 :-)
What makes you think the program will function with SP2? If it requires SP3, that is usually for good reason
Jez
Jez
16:22
because the previous version did and the guy admitted he bumped the version requirement merely "because SP2 isnt supported"
remove ALL the posts!
@thecoshman Glad to be of service
@thecoshman It's not like saying "contraceptive" on time actually prevents conception anyway.
@RMartinhoFernandes meh, still mildly amusing
@Jez Use that compatibility feature thingy?
Jez
Jez
16:23
@RMartinhoFernandes it only goes backward, not forward
Oh.
Nevermind me then.
@Jez here's the fix. Change HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Windows\CSDVersion from 200 to 300. Voila You're running SP3 now. (Reboot required)
@thecoshman Btw, I have this doubt: where does "mildy" go in this scale: "none", "few", "some", "lots", "all".
@Jez Of course, that's the only good reason to bump a version requirement. It's because SP2 isn't supported, because it no longer functions with SP2.
Jez
Jez
@sehe I'll try it.
16:25
@Jez @Jez Of course you will now create a question on Superuser and post a link so I can copy paste my google answer right in there :)
Jez
Jez
@sehe It's not great, i'd rather hack the exe
@RMartinhoFernandes: Remember(ish?) my inplace "quicksort" that I wrote? I was going to ask SO/SE on if it was a quicksort anymore, but I don't know if I should ask on SO, CodeReview, Theoretical CS, ComputationalSci, or ComputerSci?
@Jez Good luck with that
@MooingDuck Gosh, three CS sites?
What are the differences?
@jez My guess is, you don't actually need anything tricky. It might a PE header field you need to tweak. That, or, you can just stub out the branch after the call to RtlGetVersion and forget about what it returns.
16:29
Anyway, I think it isn't likely to fit SO, so I wouldn't consider it. I dunno about the rest.
@RMartinhoFernandes I have no idea
@MooingDuck That's on the starboard already :P
That's what I did to make 'evaluation' versions of trial software
@RMartinhoFernandes My brain short circuts. Guess where I got the link from >.<
Bwahahaha. ROFL
16:31
"Q&A for theoretical computer scientists and researchers in related fields", "Q&A for scientists using computers to solve scientific problems" and "Q&A for students, researchers and practitioners of computer science" respectively
Thanks a lot Eclipse. "Cannot install X because of a conflicting dependency with X."
user784668
@RMartinhoFernandes lol, same version of X?
@RMartinhoFernandes like when windows can't restart because it's waiting for an installer that is trying to restart the machine to finish?
I run into that all the time :/
@Fanael Yep.
@MooingDuck The first and last ones do sound redundant. I can see how the middle one is separate: it's not really about computer science, it just has a similar name.
user784668
@RMartinhoFernandes Thou shalt not install X!
16:33
@RMartinhoFernandes Theoretical Comp Sci revolves around turning machines and math and such, no code AFAICT
So, you can take Computational Science off the list.
So I think my question goes in TCS, since it's about quicksort in general
I manage to confuse Eclipse enough to convince it to install that thing. I am awesome.
user784668
@RMartinhoFernandes How?
I asked it to install X and some other Y that was already installed. It just worked.
I'm going to call this technique bait-and-switch dependency conflict resolution.
16:39
lol
user784668
lol
2 hours ago, by Cat Plus Plus
> This is the last time we let Tony commit ascii porn in the comments.
wtf?
you asked for it!
16:43
That's not how I remember Galician.
ok, supposedly ASCII pron is in Galician
WTF?
Also, that woman doesn't seem to be anatomically correct.
who cares about anatomy in ASCII pron?
I always thought porn and anatomy were related somehow.
I'm not an expert, though.
IANAP (I Am Not A Pornologist).
Jez
Jez
@sehe the reg hack worked. thanks.
16:46
I'm back
@RMartinhoFernandes oh, didn't know Pornology was even a subject :P
@TonyTheLion You should, you're the lecturer :P
@RMartinhoFernandes yea porn and anatomy, but this is ASCII Porn, where details don't matter much, since it's ASCII
@TonyTheLion Rule 34.
@TonyTheLion What about the detail of her having three arms?
@DeadMG oh damn, forgot about that part of my existence :P
@RMartinhoFernandes I don't see that
16:47
That's high level trolling right there: 27bslash6.com/halogen.html
3
user784668
@TonyTheLion Then open your eyes.
probably someones fetish
whatever
@TonyTheLion I see two hands in the picture (which imply two arms, I think), and there's another arm that starts on her right shoulder (in the left part of the picture) and extends somewhere beyond the lower-left corner.
Jez
Jez
@sehe Why would changing the PE header work? The program is figuring out the windows version using GetVersionEx
@RMartinhoFernandes yes I saw it now
16:49
@RMartinhoFernandes Thanks :D
@EtiennedeMartel TL;DR?
@TonyTheLion Lazy<Person> TonyTheLion;
user784668
@EtiennedeMartel deepseq tonyTheLion whatever
@TonyTheLion It's all worth reading.
> Our primary spoken language is screaming.
16:54
The most encapsulated way to overload operators is to overload them as non-members, is it not?
I think that final "Fuck off back to Austria." is the killer.
@Maxpm Yes.
@RMartinhoFernandes Then why would you ever overload it inside the class, unless you need to access private member variables?
I honestly can't say much more than "because you want to".
Or because it must be so.
Jez
Jez
ha. in CSDVersion, CSD stands for Corrective Service Diskette
8
A: Operator overloading outside class

Roger PateFirst: the two different ways are really "overload as a member" and "overload as a non-member", and the latter has two different ways to write it (as-friend-inside class definition and outside class definition). Calling them "inside class" and "outside class" is going to confuse you. Overload...

This answer mentions a "special pattern" where operator+= is a member operator+ is a non-member.
Supposedly, making operator+= a member "simplifies the implementation considerably." But I don't see how.
17:06
@Maxpm The point is that you make += a member so it accesses privates, and then + can be a non-member and just call +=.
hmm, cstheory has 3 questions on the newest page that are >24 hours old, and 9/15 have no answers. I guess I'll check back there later.
@RMartinhoFernandes Right, but += shouldn't need to access privates, I don't think.
@StackedCrooked Question 1 is from the 31st July 2008. So, yeah, nearly 4 years old.
17:08
@RMartinhoFernandes That's scary. Time goes way too fast!
Doesn't really surprise me.
@Maxpm Yeah, not in example provided.
@StackedCrooked You need to start walking slower. Then time for StackOverflow will pass slower.
Error-correcting code memory (ECC memory) is a type of computer data storage that can detect and correct the more common kinds of internal data corruption. ECC memory is used in most computers where data corruption cannot be tolerated under any circumstances, such as for scientific or financial computing and as servers. ECC memory maintains a memory system effectively free from single-bit errors: the data read from each word is always the same as the data that had been written to it, even if a single bit actually stored, or more in some cases, has been flipped to the wrong state. Some no...
:D
@RMartinhoFernandes Ok, I'll try.
lol
I've been on this chat since 2010-10-22, jeez, I should probably get a life
Seems nobody has really implemented non-POD thread_local as it's specified yet. And there be dragons here. #cxx #wg21
@jalf cc
17:12
@TonyTheLion Ok, just make sure to come back after you found one.
@TonyTheLion Another? What for?
@StackedCrooked The day I get a life, I will not come back
but until then, nothing you say or do can get rid of me :P
What if we never mention sex again? Will we get rid of you?
nope.
I can talk about other things too
you know?
user784668
@TonyTheLion What if somebody gave if infinite amount of porn to watch?
17:13
To be honest, I don't think we could go through with it, anyway.
@Fanael that already exists, so no one needs to give it to me
@RMartinhoFernandes lulz
Like, you may show up whenever we mention sex, but it is us who mention it. ("us"? "we"?)
yep, so I'm totally innocent in this matter
@TonyTheLion I was about to claim it was finite, but then remembered that it takes time to watch and there are streams.
:)
just YOU GUYS
:P
17:15
@MooingDuck There must be a porn generator somewhere (rule 34). That makes it virtually infinite.
@RMartinhoFernandes webcams
TIL a webcam is an alias for "porn generator"
user784668
@RMartinhoFernandes That generator probably has a finite period, so, no.
@Fanael Just generate slightly longer porn clips when it reaches the period.
Yes, it ends up boring, but porn is already boring anyway.
@RMartinhoFernandes you need more variety :P
17:18
bam, just got the stackalert chrome extension. I no longer have to keep the SO tab open.
not all this bot porn, which is just metal against plastic or whatever
lol
AFAIK, there's a lot of porn involving humans and plastic.
lol
> Shovelling coal into the server...
Please don't star "lol".
don't star a "lol" message, it's not funny, witty or even remotely interesting
a lol troll
17:27
> I'll explain this when I'm sober .. or revert it :whatthecommit
@RMartinhoFernandes you poor thing, you don't have synthetic human skin?
That poor excuse for protection you guys have?
Why would anyone want that?
Unspecified highly durable plastic is much better.
@RMartinhoFernandes but you can't empathize with all our music about skin pressing up against other skin. you are losing touch with your creators
huh, I have seven badges on meta, and still not enough rep to downvote :/
@stdOrgnlDave Said plastic casing is not void of pressure sensors.
Admit it, I'm perfect.
2

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