« first day (2251 days earlier)      last day (2683 days later) » 
00:00 - 15:0015:00 - 00:00

12:13 AM
@Ven hmm?
 
Ven
@Mysticial blame @Telkitty
 
Oh. That bitch still hangs around here?
 
Hint: we're the only bunch leaving her alive
 
I am doing fine a meta
 
@Mysticial We hanged her, but apparently that was only enough to prove that she's a real witch, so now we need to try burning at the stake. Or maybe pressing. Apparently most the witches in Salem were killed by pressing, so it's apparently effective.
 
12:26 AM
last Xmas they hanged me
 
@sehe So, if your buddies say something is true does that make it true?
 
So if you can cobble up a man from straw does that make your argument smart?
Peer review is just that. Review by qualified others. No one says it always works out (hint: Einstein didn't have too many qualified others, yet he still sparred. I think he's even had publications rejected.). It's about review. Not about "buddies"
 
I know someone who likes to make a straw man of incredulous stupidity, then compare himself with that straw man to draw the conclusion of how brilliant he is ...
I was like 'why do you always compare yourself with the dumbest in the bunch?'
 
@sehe Einstein was famous for critic of peer review. michaelnielsen.org/blog/…
 
12:30 AM
Can someone explain to me why this rule exists?
 
@Mikhail That's interesting
 
How many of Einstein’s 300 plus papers were peer reviewed? According to the physicist and historian of science Daniel Kennefick, it may well be that only a single paper of Einstein’s was ever subject to peer review.
 
He's clearly a fraud :)
 
Anyways, alternatives include just fucking publishing your work on arxiv, and doing great work
I can't recall a single case where my papers were peer reviews in a through manner, even the latest thing I submitted to Nature Phot.
If science was done with blog posts we'd be a lot better off
 
@Mikhail The one and only paper that I ever submitted got mixed reviews. Two of them rubber stamped it as good. The other two demanded more detail. The journal was really confused.
Apparently reviewers usually don't disagree that much.
 
12:35 AM
No but guys, this is some alarming stuff
 
@Mysticial Quite the opposite, you typically get 2 reviewers who are those your recommend. They will probably rubber stamp, and then the 3rd reviewer is actually reviewing your work.
 
Bjarne said this
 
@Mysticial Most of my rejected papers look like this +2, -1
 
Ven
lol core guidelines
@EnnMichael and so?
 
@Mikhail Hmm... interesting. I had to ask the journal for progress months after I submitted. Then they told me it was taking so long because there was massive disagreement between the reviewers.
 
12:36 AM
@Ven This is fucking retrded
No?
 
In the end, I refused to answer to the two reviewers demanding that I release certain details. So I withdrew the paper.
 
Ven
why
 
@Mikhail lolwut. I think you have a point, but blog posts aren't going to cut it. It must be easier to tell the rubbish from the rubies
 
@Ven Because you're exposing implementation details to your user
 
@EnnMichael Oh dear.
 
12:37 AM
This is exactly why default constructors exist, to isolate that
 
Ven
wat
 
@Mysticial Yes, this is normal. Cancer Research was +1/-1 took them 3 months, for other work Nature Photonics was +2/-1 took them 2.5 months, for another one ACS Nano was +3/0 (accept). Nothing out of the ordinary to wait months for a response.
 
Will somebody think of the children user?
 
Ven
"encapsulation" – You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.
 
Because now when I change a "foo" to a "bar" the thousand lines of code that use my class have to be recompiled
 
12:38 AM
@Mikhail oh ok.
 
And when I change a default constructor, the user only has to relink
Am I incorrect here?
 
@sehe Thats exactly the point, most published work is rubbish owing to the politics and pressure of the academic system. Maybe out of 10 projects is not bullshit. Maybe. If you don't have a good name they won't even look at your work, something like 70% don't even go out to review - and the % immediately rejected is higher at high IF journals.
 
@EnnMichael So I'm guessing default values of class members is something that changes often in your projects?
 
@Mikhail Part of that is probably because a lot of academics treat publications like SO reputation. Get as much as possible.
 
@Mysticial "Publish or Perish" is to say "Do your job or get fired"
 
12:41 AM
@EtiennedeMartel No, but this isn't really an argument
They can change
 
@Mikhail True. I no longer work in academia. IOW, I got fired. lol
 
@EnnMichael yes. It avoids forgotten initializers in individual constructors, avoids requiring chaining constructors or (gasp) initialization functions; it avoids the class of error where the order of members is different from the order of initializers, when the net result depends on the order in which the initializers are evaluated (this is more often than you think and people never notice). And it's just simply less code, with less noisy syntax
 
anyways i g2g
peace
 
@sehe Okay
Thanks
You have a point
I thought this one is a bit questionable too github.com/isocpp/CppCoreGuidelines/blob/master/…
 
Strange that GSL doesn't try to make those points
 
12:44 AM
I know right
About the second one, the reasoning is as though every class has some default value
Which is true, but requires the programmer to invent clever default values
Which is often worse than it is good, so what am I missing?
 
@EnnMichael I think the reason given is pretty good and to-the-point. It should IMO not be an iron law, but yeah, make a default constructor whenever it makes sense (and use =default; doing so, so you can have C++17 extended aggregates)
 
Ell
@ScarletAmaranth not laughing because monday deadline :'(
 
@EnnMichael Yeah. It's a balancing act, that one
 
@sehe Right. But when it doesn't really make sense, isn't it completely okay to force the user to write std::vector v(10, their_own_defaut_value)?
That's given as an example
 
12:59 AM
@EnnMichael Of course.
 
wow core guidelines using Date as an example to the guideline "make your classes default constructible"
 
Holy fucking crap. "JamesMcNellis knows how to photograph." I'mma endorse him on LinkedIn right now
@milleniumbug Why not?
 
@sehe For photography? Not sure that'll help him get a programming job
 
@sehe How did he get in there without nobody inside?
 
there isn't a suitable default value for a date, and they seem to think making 1970-01-01 one is a good idea
 
1:06 AM
inb4 im totally wrong
 
^ :)
 
@Mysticial break into by a window, they're so large it makes it very easy
 
@milleniumbug depends on the domain. But yeah. Not the best example. What I think makes it a good example is that it takes a real-life sample OUTSIDE the realm of toy/standard library fossils
 
@LucDanton They're large enough to kill you if it shatters above you.
 
@Mysticial I don't know about there, but here, churches are usually empty because few people actually care now.
 
1:15 AM
@sehe :(
 
@EtiennedeMartel Last time I went to Europe, the cathedrals were not so much churches as tourist attractions for architecture fanatics.
So they were always jam-packed.
 
Where and when was it buildt?
 
I guess it makes sense.
 
Yeah, I count myself a somewhat of an architecture fanatic since it is pretty impressive how those things made of stone can stay standing for so many centuries.
 
@thecoshman Do you pop into Dischorse quite regularly or shall I direct all my inquiries here?
 
1:18 AM
@sehe when I look at a narrow passage, somehow I feel becoming narrow minded
 
@Mysticial double as both, with careful scheduling
 
I do find dropping random out-of-ctx quostians and stmts here weird but no harm done if I plink you at the start, I guess
 
@sehe Do that without the perspective distortion and I might consider doing an endorsement.
 
@LucDanton I guess there's a bit of selection of bias on my part because I came as a tourist and I only saw the best and biggest of cathedrals which always had more people in them than ants in a colony.
 
eh even the ones off the beaten path usually have visiting hours
 
1:21 AM
@JerryCoffin Oh well. I assumed that was merely a twitpic artefact. Anyhoops. It's not the first picture he posted. Do look at his twitter feed / site (he has vast galleries online)
 
@Mysticial There are tricks for that. I've used a couple of methods. One is to just put a really strong neutral density filter over the lens, so you can get a really long exposure. Tourists rarely stay still for more than a few minutes, so with a long enough exposure, you get a clean shot. The other is a variation: instead of a single long exposure, take a number of separate exposures several minutes apart. Then you can merge them in Photoshop.
Offhand I can't remember the mode in which you do the merge, but there's one that'll basically choose pixels that haven't changed (much) between at least a few of the shots.
 
@MarkGarcia Loses most of its impact, and still has significant perspective distortion. You can correct this in Ps, but the result is rarely satisfactory. In camera, you need to take the photograph with the film plane vertical. You can either use an extremely wide-angle lens, and then throw away the lower half of the picture, or you can shift the lens (e.g., a view camera, field camera, or possibly an SLR with a T/S lens).
 
@CaptainGiraffe did you get some super moon pictures last night?
 
1:36 AM
@Telkitty Cloudy as a hell opening when it happened.
 
@jaggedSpire cat in need of pets /cc @Morwenn @Ven
 
Ven
:3
 
@JerryCoffin I guess a long(er) focal length lens would also do?
 
@MarkGarcia Longer focal lengths make it less apparent, but 1) don't really eliminate it, and 2) of course don't work for a shot where you need a wide angle.
 
Yeah, you'd run out of space if you want to frame the whole thing.
 
1:40 AM
@Borgleader :D
 
@JerryCoffin Interesting...
@MarkGarcia I haven't seen that particular article. Just one of the many similar ones. It's a good sign that AMD chose such a shitty name because that means they're spending their time and money on actually making the product good.
 
lol
 
Ven
:D
 
1:45 AM
@MarkGarcia wow
 
> Google’s new “Android Things” OS hopes to solve awful IoT security
lmao
 
@Borgleader @Xeo @TonyTheLion playing in the snow
 
@jaggedSpire :3 :3 :3
 
@Borgleader ^_^
 
2:01 AM
it's so teensy! :D
 
@Borgleader it doesn't have any legs!
 
aaaaugh so fuzzy
 
I just want to bundle it up in my arms and cuddle it
@Borgleader it never occurred to me before how much a wagging dog tail resembles a cat toy
 
@jaggedSpire it definitely needs cuddles
 
2:08 AM
and now, for a less dignified animal
 
Ven
@Borgleader looks 100% like the kitty next to me
 
@Ven :o
 
Ven
you've seen 'em :P
 
but not enough
there can never be enough cute animal pictures
also, and also
 
Ell
2:27 AM
@jaggedSpire a ferret? :P
 
@Ell so terribly graceful are they not
 
Ell
And smelly too
 
less so if you remove their musk glands
 
2:48 AM
oh glad I misread that
 
Ven
3:40 AM
va donc dormir l'ami
 
3:56 AM
@Borgleader It's a goddamn trap.
 
@ThePhD isn't it so ~cute~
:3
 
Bwuh.
 
all fuzzy and adorable!
I bet I could hold its warm cuddly self in my cupped hands
so tiny!
:D
 
And then after it gets bored of you and gets older
it wanders away
and abandons you, just like every person ever.
 
yep!
isn't it just wonderful
 
4:04 AM
No, it's terrible.
 
We're all going to die and nothing we do will ever matter. Every mark we make upon the world will fade like footprints on sand, and we will be forgotten in short order.
Isn't there a certain...peace in that?
we are nothing to the places we call home, and smaller still to our nations, to our planet
and our planet is a mote of dust in an incomprehensibly vast void
^_^
 
Yeah, but I don't -- and most people don't -- operate / think at that scale.
 
huh
you know that actually explains a lot
 
Ven
4:19 AM
fuck 5am again
the cats are sleeping
@jaggedSpire we seem to have the same thoughts on that topic (no, really).
 
@Ven yay!
 
@Ven Oo gosh ... they will be up in an hour and harassing you into feeding/playing with them
 
4:38 AM
such a boring day, no blunder from trump
 
<(?:"[^"]*"['"]*|'[^']*'['"]*|[^'">])+>
 
@Telkitty that's a sign of the apocalypse
 
5:05 AM
@CheukKinSing this week’s special: Skyhammer & anet QA hand-in-hand
 
5:40 AM
When I saw your message in the notification box I knew it would be good
 
5:52 AM
hey can someone help me with c++ compiler on a mac?
I try to install gcc 6.2 downloaded it and try to install per sudo command but if i use gcc -v it still shows me 4.2
and this grfortran doesnt work at all
 
@Schbabako no
 
@CheukKinSing sad thing is that we’ve had the reworked map in beta for months ._.
 
@Schbabako $PATH
 
i have no idea what you are saying
 
this is our duck bot, it uses probabilistic programming to make random replies
 
6:02 AM
@Schbabako you are not pointing to the right compiler (hint edit $PATH)
 
as you can see it doesn’t always come out right
 
or explicitly pointing to the right compiler
 
im using a mac
how can i put the path?
 
user406009
@Schbabako The simplest solution if you don't want to deal with this is to simply specify the full path to the compiler instead of typing gcc -v
 
user406009
/my/install/directory/gcc -v
 
user406009
6:10 AM
@Schbabako cyberciti.biz/faq/… is a guide for modifying your PATH on OS X.
 
user406009
(You are basically just telling it which directories to look in first)
 
OCaml is as dumb as ever.
They have a method for checking if a BigInt fits within its "int" type.
But int can be either int32 or int64.
Depending on platform.
Because we C++ long now.
But that's fine, right?
Because Big_int has a method big_int_is_int, to see if it fits in the int type.
... But how do you test if it fits in a int64 versus an int32?
You don't. It makes the check based on what platform you're on.
GradeA programming.
 
6:50 AM
People are now opening GoFundMe for moving out of their parent's basements? twitter.com/Mythic__Rogue/status/808914640025554944
 
7:09 AM
@LucDanton but is beta populated enough?
 
kinda
 
8:05 AM
@Borgleader <3
 
8:28 AM
Sup guise
 
^ Thoughts?
@ThePhD Is this actually true? I mean, have you checked with some more knowledgeable people or on SO? :)
 
8:51 AM
@набиячлэвэли discord should suffice... maybe get a channel for it? That way it's easier for me to see questions
 
user1804599
@sehe XD
 
user1804599
@ThePhD check if it is in the range
 
user1804599
You can very easily write such a function yourself if you really need it.
 
user1804599
@ThePhD Also an int in OCaml is either 31 or 63 bits, not 32 or 64.
 
user1804599
It uses one bit to tell the GC that it isn't a pointer.
 
9:04 AM
> M6 programme son émission "Saturday Night Live" un jeudi
 
9:35 AM
moving from the <experimental/*> stuff to C++17 proper and it looks like std::basic_string_view lost its to_string member, that’s just convenient
 
Xeo
Any idea why it's gone?
I'd have expected some free-function alternative to pop up, at least
 
@Xeo I didn’t follow the process unfortunately. my guesses are either a bikeshedding concern or it went away together with the conversion operator (which really had to go)
@Xeo well, we do have an std::to_string already though
 
Xeo
Also for basic_string_view?
 
nah you know the std::to_string(42) stuff
only operates on numerical stuff
 
Xeo
template<typename Char, typename Traits>
basic_string<Char, Traits> to_string(basic_string_view<Char, Traits> view);
template<typename Char, typename Traits, typename Alloc);
basic_string<Char, Traits, Alloc> to_string(basic_string_view<Char, Traits> view, Alloc alloc);
I was thinking of something like ^
 
9:40 AM
basic_string_view is not for numbers silly
 
Xeo
As in "it didn't have to be a member, so let's move it to namespace scope"
@LucDanton who says to_string is only for numbers? :P
 
the committee
 
Xeo
Do they really?
 
> 21.3.3, numeric conversions
@Xeo these overloads are a stopgap measure to provide superior alternatives to the ol' sprintf dance that’s not a convoluted stream expression, it’s not a hook for converting things to strings
 
@LucDanton std::basic_string constructor? Though I that's not really useful for templated code.
 
9:44 AM
@MarkGarcia yeah the latter is my concern, as usual
I also tend to think that foo(bar.to_string()) looks nicer than foo(uh_which_string_type_was_I_using_I_am_not_a_compiler { bar }), although it’s not as great a concern
there isn’t an associated string type either ._.
> Effects: Equivalent to: return os << str.to_string();
nice specification
 
...
> Error: No implementations provided for the following modules:
Num referenced from polyfill.cmx, parser.cmx, representation.cmx,
scanner.cmx
Big_int referenced from parser.cmx
Hah.
Hahah.
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.
I finally proof the entire engine and write all the code I need
"Hey we don't actually have Big_int LUL."
I hate this language and I hate this project and I especially hate the team members I don't have anymore.
 
> explicit basic_string(basic_string_view<charT, traits> sv, const Allocator& a = Allocator());
it’s explicit ._.
 
nwp
1 hour ago, by wilx
@ThePhD Is this actually true? I mean, have you checked with some more knowledgeable people or on SO? :)
 
@LucDanton Planning on using constructor type deduction (or whatever the hell is it called)?
 
When your cascade delete in SQLAlchemy doesn't trigger the after_delete event...
 
9:56 AM
@wilx Yes, I have, I checked SO and the OCaml docs.
/cc @nwp
 
@MarkGarcia in that particular case? that’s a good point! (in general, I'm not sure yet)
 
I need to get more standard library stuff. This is kind of bullshit to do. I don't care what my professor's VM looks like: I need more tools than what baseline OCaml gives, because baseline OCaml sucks.
 
user1804599
Use Core.
 
user1804599
Core is gut lib.
 
user1804599
muh muh i don't want to use standard tools muh muh
 
9:59 AM
Trying to find and install Core.
 
user1804599
OPAM
 
"Unbound module Core" here we go...
 
user1804599
git gud
 
user1804599
you're making it too hard
 
10:07 AM
There we go.
I need to pass the -tag thread flag to ocamlbuild
otherwise you can't link in core
It builds now. Wew, lass.
And it runs.
... Well, sort of. I had to comment out the entire Semantic AST.
Now I need to get back to work on the Semantic AST.
 
I’ll double check the spec and file something
oh wait no I would have to learn how deduction guides work ._.
 
Now you have 2 a standard problem.
4
 
lol
 
nwp
@LucDanton foo({bar.begin(), bar.end()}). One could argue it is consistently annoying with standard algorithms.
 
10:27 AM
@nwp that’s completely besides the point
looks like std::basic_string { std::string_view {}, 0, 0, alloc } is non-deducible, or actually non-guidable I guess
 
Xeo
why?
 
@Xeo well, I still don’t know. I really didn’t want to learn so I replicated the constructors present in the std::basic_string synopsis and asked GCC
arg wrong bit
 
Xeo
lol
can you coliru it?
or wandbox or whereever
 
@Xeo here
> 'std::basic_string_view<char>' is not derived from 'const my_basic_string<CharT, Traits, Allocator>'
interaction between the deduction guide and partial ordering, I’m guessing
actually my_basic_string<char> { std::string_view {}, 0, 0, std::allocator<char> {} } already doesn’t work, huh. the usual 'only one UD conversion' rule
 
@LucDanton What is a deduction guide?
 
10:37 AM
that would make the real take-away here that you can std::string { "hello"sv }, but you can’t std::string { "hello"sv, 0, 5 }. except that libstdc++ allows it sometimes as an extension
 
I am falling behind in this, aren't I?
 
> sometimes
I hope it doesn't depend on the weather
 
@sehe it only works during a GNU moon
15
 
Excellent jdm
 
nwp
@wilx intro
 
Ven
10:52 AM
hi
 
@nwp Thanks.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Oh, I thought there was a ctor with (string_view, size_type, size_type, alloc
 
@Xeo yeah, it’s a not-so-easy API decision to take: how to gracefully upgrade everything that operated on strings, to strings and views. I’m not surprised no choice was made
e.g. in this particular case std::basic_string { "hello"sv.substr(0, 5) } works
 
Xeo
yeah.
 
@набиячлэвэли started throwing issues/milestones onto the project
HTTP compliance is not a serious;y strong goal, but something I figured wouldn't hurt to put down
 
11:12 AM
@набиячлэвэли thinking might just make Rust the language for this and move over to gitflow model, and so rename the rust branch to 'develop'. Use a feature branch if you want to push changes that aren't stable. Try to keep 'develop' stable. 'master' for actual releases
 
any lonely japanese businessman in this room? This toy is for you :P
https://www.facebook.com/techinasia/videos/1284831911555219/
 
cool
I've installed phpVirtualBox
I am kinda thinking about building an app to host our vagrants as well
I don't want to do it in PHP though :/
 
'phpVirtualBox'?
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz hhvmVrtualBox
 
@BartekBanachewicz you considred docker?
 
user1804599
11:35 AM
@BartekBanachewicz do it in Haskell
 
In Postgres, role == user == group. I don't know if I like it or not.
 
not at all
it's terrible
roles == group... maybe
 
But you only have to remember a single set of commands, that is for roles. I dunno. Love or hate.
 
imo, roles is a way of naming a permission to do something, you assign multiple roles to a group, to say what members of that group can do, then add users to groups to allow them to do those things
 
@ProblemSlover yes
@rightfold I could!
@Ven I need that for vagrant not vbox
also ugh why does installing python things install 2.7
I don't want the old python go away
 
11:51 AM
just don't python
 
and what should I use instead?
 
nwp
@BartekBanachewicz was that a typo or do you consider 2.7 the new python?
 
12:18 PM
@nwp typo
hmm
chrome seems to be caching my css
wtf
two different browsers return two different nonsense results
okey, chrome fixed, firefox returns garbage
maybe it's the problem with apache
ooor wsgi
ugh
 
user1804599
12:57 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Haskell
 
1:12 PM
ctrl+shift+r should force reload in most browsers, ignoring any cached artifacts
 
user1804599
@thecoshman doesn't ignore DNS and 301 caches.
 
user1804599
Unfortunately and stupidly.
 
ah, til
 
1:40 PM
@thecoshman I disabled cache through headers
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh wow
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz i don't do "devops" shenanigans
 
@Ven whatever that means
 
Ven
exactly
 
devops is basically just trying to reduce the time it takes to get code changes running on the live systems
 
1:50 PM
or a buzzword to impress people during management meetings
 
ergh... I've spent a few nights working on a spreed sheet system for tracking league games in a table top game... and now I'm thinking I'd rather make an actual site... with a proper web front end and all :S
@Rerito well it's just a very open term, it can cover a lot of things
 
I just told you how it's used in the corporate world :D
 
I do devops now :P
current task... set up a server for code hosting with fancy front end that people want/are allowed to have
 
Ven
@thecoshman don't dig this hole
 
@Ven yeah... kinda what I'm thinking. This spread sheet solution is mostly done and only real limitation is that I can't allow people to add updates without 'risking' them deleting or breaking other things
 
nwp
2:26 PM
gah, why does void f(){ void v; return v;} not compile?
stupid special cases
 
Ell
@nwp it's not really a special case
You can't have a value of void ever
And you can't just default construct one
If it was myNotDefaultConstructibleType v; it would also fail
I think you can do return fReturningVoid(); though
 
I wish it was spring already
 
Xeo
@Ell future standard might change it to a unit type
there's a proposal
 
looking forward to writing functions void f(void, void, void)
 
2:44 PM
There's a proposal that's been, among other things, pushed back by Ville because Matt dared to challenge Ville's opinion about introducing Concepts into C++17.
 
~drama~
 
That's so Vile
 
@Griwes Which one?
 
I'm aware of exactly one "regular void" paper. :P
 
Oh, I didn't understand that you mentioned the message above.
My social skills suck.
 
00:00 - 15:0015:00 - 00:00

« first day (2251 days earlier)      last day (2683 days later) »