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2:01 PM
You skipped the "steal vagrant's identity, replace self with suicidal person" step between 3 and 4
 
Hi!
 
Welcome.
 
Hour of windows updates cabbage for all!
 
Yay, cabbage!
I'm looking for some advice how to represent stdout and stderr in code examples in documentation, useable like python's doctest. subprocess.Popen would not give me the order in which they come out unless I explicitly add a redirect or something, would it?
Would it be bad to throw away the distinction between stderr and stdout when looking at doctest-like code examples such as
$ command -foo -bar
out line1
out line2
?
 
2:10 PM
Unless it’s actually critical that something appears in stderr and not in stdout, I wouldn’t bother to test this in a doctest.
 
I've never used doctest, so my opinions are mostly uninformed, but... I think it's fine to ignore the distinction between stderr/stdout.
 
Sounds good!
And if it's critical, I can still test that explicitly by redirecting the other one.
 
It doesn't seem likely to me that you'll get many false passes, where the testing framework should reject your code example because it outputted "Hello, World!" through stderr instead of stdout. That doesn't sound like an error that would occur very often.
 
Can I convince Popen to not make that distinction?
 
DSM
You can route all stderr to stdout, if you want.
 
2:14 PM
perhaps with Popen( arguments_go_here, stderr=sys.stdout)? I suspect that would do it.
Argh beaten etc
 
DSM
I think you use stderr=subprocess.STDOUT, he said, hoping no one notices he had to look it up.
 
@DSM Does that capture it for me?
@DSM Actually, if you have to look it up, maybe I should just go to the docs mysel.
 
DSM
Never a bad first step. :-)
 
@Kevin That would print it, not merge it into the string I get from .communicate().
 
DSM
But yes, it captures it, in the sense that all output will show up in the one stdout stream.
 
2:17 PM
Ok, in that case do whatever DSM says.
This is generally good advice.
 
Yay, the doc is very explicit that that value is intended precisely for this!
 
when imagining us as shoulder-perching conscience gremlins, I'm the one with the pitchfork and the red aesthetic.
 
@Kevin And yet you say “Listen to the other one, actually”?
 
Yes, because I delight in knowing that "don't listen to my advice, including this sentence" induces paradox paroxysms within mortal brains.
 
DSM
I was going to suggest we'd established a lovably-grumpy-friendship over our years working together, but you undercut that quite nicely. You really are a demon!
 
2:21 PM
Well we could still have the same kind of off-the-clock relationship as that one early Wile E Coyote cartoon where he's friendly with the sheepdog when they're not trying to capture/protect the sheep respectively
 
just quit
 
DSM
@enderland: congratulations, I did so earlier this year! Worked out very well for me, hopefully it'll go well for you too!
 
Oh, I thought "just quit" was a command. "give up, all of you!"
 
@DSM I already quit this year too
 
DSM
Twice in the same year seems extreme, but circumstances vary.
 
2:25 PM
Hah I actually like what I'm doing now a lot
 
Ah, I may have the issue that I can't just give that argument to Popen if I want to use scripttest. Now I need to wonder what I gain from using scripttest and whether I want to tweak that
 
DSM
So now there's a new, previously unmentioned constraint? .. Kevin, he's all yours. ;-)
 
There is always a new, previously unmentioned constraint.
 
@Kevin also my avatar on here several years ago was a gremlin. just sayin
 
And it's not so much a constraint, more a find: “Oh, there is something called scripttest, that looks like it might be useful for what I want to do!`
 
2:32 PM
@Anaphory Including the previously unmentioned constraint that if you inflict too many previously unmentioned constraints on our chatroom we will show you no mercy. :evil grin:
@Anaphory Ah. That's what we call a chameleon question
 
I just stop engaging on those
 
I'll keep playing along sometimes, if the follow-up questions are properly interesting. But most of the time it crosses the boundary where I can't even help if I tried.
"Ok, but what if I want to parallelize that with numpy?" In that case, I wish you the best of luck in your solitary journey of discovery!
 
@Anaphory But we'll be nice this time because you're new here, you have an xkcd-based avatar, and your rep is currently the Hardy–Ramanujan number
 
I typically take the stance of "That's not what you asked, though."
 
I send psychic signals of "you should upvote me for my efforts at least" but I don't say anything explicit
 
2:39 PM
@PM2Ring That's why it's not a question, but a chat message ;)
 
DSM
@enderland: now that's impressive. (1) Link to (2) an image of (3) code which doesn't show the problem!
 
Yeah the follow-up comment in this case is more of a monologue than a query so I don't find fault in it
"hmm, I should try to reconcile this problem..." vs "how should I reconcile this problem?"
 
If there are XY(Z) problems, is a chameleon question a ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ problem?
 
DSM
@KevinMGranger: maybe a string.ascii_uppercase problem..
 
2:43 PM
I wish SO had a "I'm voting to close this question because it's a bad question and you should feel bad" reason
 
user559633
@enderland "unclear"
 
@DSM As long as it's a locale with ℵ.
 
@Anaphory Fair enough. We are a little more relaxed in here than on the main SO site, but we still expect people to ask clear, well-formed questions. Open-ended discussions are fine too, as long as you've made it clear that's what you're doing. :)
 
I forgot that exists. I did print("".join(chr(i) for i in range(ord('A'), ord('Z')+1)))
 
DSM
@PM2Ring: speaking of 1729, I'm interviewing a potential intern this afternoon, and was thinking
Feb 11 '15 at 20:55, by DSM
I wonder sometimes if "name an interesting property of 1729?" would be a good interview question. Not for any content, but because it'll tell me whether or not you read the same recreational math books I did as a kid.
 
2:45 PM
I can understand why OP would only provide the lines being highlighted by his IDE. "Surely the error is on this line and no further information is required to diagnose the problem", he thinks. Little does he know how unreliable error message line numbers are when it comes to syntax errors.
 
@PM2Ring I did start with “Would it be bad”, is there a better invitation to an open-ended discussion?
 
@DSM If they mention Carmichael numbers, hire immediately. :)
@Anaphory Nah, you're fine.
 
I'm aware of the taxicab number story but I don't actually remember what the taxicab numbers are.
Also I'd probably pronounce "Ramanujan" wrong.
 
@Kevin They can be written as a sum of two cubes in (at least) two different ways. But 1729 has other, more interesting properties.
Anyway, it's rhubarb time for me.
 
DSM
Rhubarb for PM.
 
2:54 PM
Cabbage :-)
 
@Kevin I think you may work at the same place as i do
Except I'm the only developer :'(
 
@Withnail maybe you are Kevin :|
 
I have one coworker who telecommutes and who I have literally never seen or heard. Maybe he's you.
 
The django project I have contains 17 apps and then about 40 standalone scripts
 
user559633
Milford Academy for Coworkers
 
2:57 PM
@enderland I'd probably be a lot more competent if I was kevin.
 
DSM
J:\[redacted] Project Management\Bead Making Workshop
 
Where is your code? No one can fix code you haven't posted. — enderland 7 secs ago
omg today. enderland cries and dies more on the inside
 
user559633
added to /Volumes/FriendFic Drive 3/D/DS/DSM/ideas.txt
 
user559633
 
Omg so many methods that shouldn't be methods exist.
 
3:07 PM
@Withnail nice
working as a sole dev should be made illegal
 
user559633
why?
 
you learn different things that way
 
Going to have so many stories out of this job.
 
3:22 PM
the main thing I miss working as a solo dev was actual peer review and meaningful code review
though realistically I don't really get that in this job either. bleh
 
exactly
there is actually nothing to be learned from working alone
 
user559633
disagree
 
agree
 
user559633
that's an absurd assertion
 
Tbh, I've learned about a hundred things I never want to see again and I've been here a week.
 
user559633
3:25 PM
there are benefits to working with others, yes, but to suggest that you can't grow/learn/improve by being a solo coder is ridiculous
 
i'd agree. I'm still having to figure things out - I'd definitely benefit from having someone here to 'learn' from, but unravelling code spaghetti is illuminating - i'm sure ther'll be diminishing returns on that, but for the time being it's helpful.
 
you just become yet another zed a shaw
 
user559633
>__>
 
note, I've been a sole coder for far too long
I always protest against it
 
the biggest thing you can do when being alone is that you can code a ton more than when you work with a team
you can write tons of code
and if you actually care, you can learn a lot if you want to do it the right way
 
user559633
3:27 PM
i write more code when i'm working on a team.
 
As a solo coder what would like like most from a team environment?
 
I am way more productive when I can reflect with a team that is at the same level.
 
hah, i was about to ask you Antti
 
@tristan ok that's weird :P
 
and when we can compete in doing clever hacks
 
user559633
3:28 PM
@AnttiHaapala Agreed. And I tend to not have to rewrite things because it pulls me out of focusing on something that might not be important.
 
"You're pretty competent to quite a high level, isn't it frustrating to work in a team?"
 
I actually lament the fact that I am far more competent than a lot of the folks I work with
and you guys know my abilities. :'(
 
@Withnail remember that in one place @IljaEverilä and @Sevanteri were my team, no complaints :P
both of them are way better in Haskell, Clojure or Vim than me
(though none of them are essential at that project)
but I wanted to do something else and don't like much exactly because I work completely alone
 
Interesting. My main aim with the last set of jobhunting was to go somewhere engineering led. Ended up as sole coder in a non tech org. rolls eyes
 
user559633
Gross, sorry.
 
user559633
3:32 PM
Are you taking over this django project because the last guy quit?
 
@Withnail at least you can say: "you're not an engineer" :D
 
@tristan Yeah
 
I'm an eng-gineer!
 
user559633
Yikes. Is there/can there be money in the budget to get you a buddy?
 
That was the original plan...
 
3:41 PM
Nobel committee </3
 
We've got an agency in supporting the migration from IIS to linux, and I know them, good guys, so can probably lean on them a bit.
 
Ahtisaari was born in a city that was annexed to Russia after WW2, so, according to their logic he's Russian :D
 
@Withnail oh my. read that as "migration from ISIS to linux"
 
user559633
"Finland (now Russia)". Yeah, too bad they didn't make any sort of distinction.
 
I would rather that than the current arrangements :D
triggers all the NSA GCHQ keywords
 
DSM
3:45 PM
I'm very much enjoying working in a larger team. I'm better than my trainees and equally-skilled with some others, and it's fun to have people to chat with who know what they're talking about.
 
@DSM exactly
and when you are in a table with someone who doesn't know, you're not alone on the other side...
 
@DSM tbh this is my biggest problem in my current job, being in the QA group organizationally
 
user559633
I find that working with a good team helps focus me/keeps me from getting distracted.
 
as I have a lot more technical skills than most there so I get nearly no technical feedback
 
DSM
True. Last week a friend and I were Slacking "WTH?" to each other when someone proposed an insane solution to a non-problem. (During the corresponding meeting.)
 
3:46 PM
because if I am alone, then "you're just unreasonable"
 
user559633
It can be both
 
DSM
I tend to be stronger at the function level than I am at the architectural level, so it's been useful to have people double-check my thinking about that. It was honestly, no I'm not pretending, it was really genuinely refreshing the first time someone caught a design flaw in my approach. I wouldn't have realized it until I was pretty far down that road, so someone asking the right question saved me hours of work.
 
the worst part at working alone is that:
if I need to do a hand-off within a short period,
then it is "my fault that I didn't document my doings well enough"
(how do I know?)
 
user559633
If there are as many managers as you suggest, can't one give you regular feedback?
 
user559633
And if you're truly working alone, isn't a hand off just transferring from your left to right?
 
3:51 PM
ah they do
as in we have sprint meetings.
 
DSM
One issue we have here is that our analysts have a habit of thinking that documentation is a substitute for practical knowledge, but when something goes boom, a few hundred pages of virtual text aren't much use..
 
I am talking about system level handoff as this is an internal tool that is currently in devops mode
 
user559633
hand off from dev to operations, you mean?
 
no
there are no operations
there is nothing to hand off to
the supposed future guy who comes to replace me
 
user559633
wait, so why would you need to do a hand-off then?
 
3:54 PM
if I leave, which with increasing probability might be as soon as...
 
user559633
oh, well, if it's that bad, i'd consider "is hand off ready" to be at an entry written in glitter pen in the employer's dream journal
 
naturally
but it means that yet another place that I cannot quite put in my CV in the "ok call this guy for references" :D
 
DSM
Heh. I've only got one "do-not-call" on my list.
 
which leads back to that why that "if" is rapidly becoming "as soon as"
 
I mainly want technical colleagues so I can "get off SO" and interact IRL with them.. :P
 
3:59 PM
+1
... then IRL we go to SO...
 
rbrb
 
I'm still relatively junior too, which affects this. getting more of that "mentorship" matters to me
 
4:18 PM
In this week alone I've been assigned to work on a mobile app, desktop app, and website
 
DSM
crows are known for their versatility..
 
cbg all
 
cbg
 
nngggh
 
indeed.
 
4:21 PM
Literally just found this gem
i can't even.
 
@Withnail wat
 
It could make sense, depending on how it's used
Don't want to wrap everything in try/except
 
4:37 PM
It does depend, but it looks like someone might not know break, continue, return and such like, alternatively.
But maybe it's on top level?
 
Me: "Let's see if the web page displays a foreign key integrity error for row #4815 if I twiddle its value in the database."
Web page: "foreign key integrity error for row #2342"
Me: "... OK then."
Finally I understand this gif.
 
Why does doctest.DocTestRunner have so many pseudo-private methods! It makes inheriting from it to run subprocesses instead of python code really hard!
 
stackoverflow.com/q/39982196/2301450 as dupe or too broad. 1 meh answer and 3 almost identical answers
 
Possibly row 2342 refers to a sprocket in the sprockets table which itself refers to row 4815. If the ORM is constructing objects depth-first, then this error could occur even through many layers of indirection.
 
DSM
4:58 PM
@Kevin: if memory serves, you C# professionally, no? #offtopic
 
Yeah.
 
DSM
Just to double-check ('cause I might be shouting at someone later this week), the canonical way to parse csvs is to use Microsoft.VisualBasic.FileIO.TextFieldParser, right?
 
Five hours in release planning, fifteen minutes of which was just finding out what data was supposed to be fed into a specific visualisation page. Just shoot me now
 
Hmm, I don't actually know. 'round here everyone passes spreadsheety data around in excel files.
 
DSM
@holdenweb: condolences from across the pond. Unfortunately no weapon I have access to at the moment has sufficient range. :-(
 
5:06 PM
Ok, apparently crit.List<Sprocket>().FirstOrDefault<Sprocket>(s=> s.id == idList[x]) fails when there's a foreign key integrity error in any row specified by idList. #2342 is first in that list, and it crashes when x == 0 even though the integrity error is with row 4815 which has an index of like 12.
 
@DSM Either that or the CsvHelper library.
 
DSM
@MorganThrapp: ah, thanks. But I thought it was you who was recommending against csvhelper?
 
This is not entirely impossible because crit makes some reference to idList earlier on, so it's not as if it had no knowledge of idList[12] beforehand.
 
I was, yes. I don't think either solution is particularly good. :P
 
But it still makes it super annoying to determine which row is causing the problem
 
5:08 PM
Four more yamming hours of planning tomorrow. Maybe I'll just call in sick
 
Hmm, taking a step back, this is clearly the wrong approach.
 
@holdenweb Leading by example hey? :)
 
managers
recbg
 
Oh yeah. Self-deletion is my modus operandi
 
DSM
We're reducing the number of meetings because there were complaints about how expensive the videoconferencing was. #win
 
5:14 PM
I meant calling in sick;) As probably Martijn did too
 
DSM
Martijn doesn't call in sick. [insert Norris/Skeet-style joke here]
 
who is Jon really
my brain makes surprisingly little effort to determine who's writing what:/
sorry
I'd make a very shitty branch predictor
 
Please don't put me in the position of having to defend managers. Regard me as atypical
 
I regard you as a typical manager.
there:P
no, don't worry, I like you
 
DSM
One of my colleagues recommended Expert Python Programming -- has anyone read it? TOC looks promising.
 
5:20 PM
41 bucks? do they ship it with an entire kindle?
 
DSM
I could charge it to NumberFirm, so price isn't an object for books. :-P
 
Or is it me being wrong when I expect an e-book to be significantly cheaper than a physical one?
 
user image
13
Coming to a store near you early next year!
 
@holdenweb really?:O
 
DSM
Either that or he's good at photoshop..
 
5:22 PM
well I got burned in the past, so I'm cautious:P
 
And already available under O'Reilly's early access scheme (whose name I have temporarily forgotten)
 
but holdenweb isn't the trolling kind, usually
the part where it says "Martelli" sounds real good
 
OH no, O'Reilly just sent me this - we'd been discussing how to indicate in the top right flash how up to date we were (3.6 and all, donchaknow)
 
ooooh STEVE HOLDEN OMG
 
DSM
5:23 PM
@holdenweb: how much of the new typing stuff do you get into? It still makes me a little queasy.
 
I really am subpar tonight
 
DSM
@holdenweb: I think he just put two and two together..
 
Yo mean annotations and the like?
:-)
 
@DSM exactly
 
Haven't used them at all yet, but Guido has indicated that they can be useful when added to legacy codebases, and I've got one of those ...
 
5:25 PM
def do_a_thing(idList):
    try:
        return database.getRowsWithIds(idList)
    except DataBaseError:
        #we want to identify which of the ids is causing the error, so we'll iterate through them one-by-one until we find one that crashes.
        if len(idList) == 1:
            raise Exception("failed to execute database query with id {}".format(idList[0]))
        else:
            for id in idList:
                #one of these will definitely crash
                do_a_thing([id])
            raise Exception("You should never reach this line")
 
Had to star that post from Andras!
 
Trying to come up with a less dumb way of doing this.
 
DSM
I'm on record as being willing to take good odds on the fact that the "we don't intend to make putting type declarations everywhere the new default" promise isn't worth the paper it's not printed on.
 
@holdenweb heh. you're famous!
 
DSM
@Kevin: why are you special-casing the 1-length case?
Ohhhhh, you're recursing. One of my fellow devs here likes that pattern. :-/
 
5:28 PM
For some value of "famous" that (thankfully) includes not being recognised and not having to cope with screaming fans
 
I guess no wonder I feel you folks are so much more experienced, lol
 
I'm considering not doing it recursively, just calling getRowsWithIds directly a second time. But there's a little more setup/teardown than what I'm showing here, so it would lead to a fair bit of code duplication if I went iterative
 
@holdenweb haha, sorry. I'm not being the brightest pickle in the jar:D
 
Not a big deal
 
@holdenweb fyi your website homepage has a dead link on it :P
 
DSM
5:33 PM
@Kevin: why not just loop over idlist directly from the get-go? You'd still only need to do setup/teardown once, no?
Oh, wait. This isn't just testing code, this is the code you're using for production, so requesting everything one by one would be slow.
.. wait, it can't be production code, it's in Python. Okay, I'm just going to admit that I'm confused and get back to work. :-)
 
@enderland I should take that site down, the company has been defunct for about two years. I used to maintain a fairly active presence on holdenweb.com, but that's also been chopped. So now I put my stuff on holdenweb.blogspot.co.uk and yorksamerica.blogspot.co.uk
Ah well, time to pack up for the day. That's enough planning. Rhubarb for the evening, peeps
 
DSM
Rhubarb for holdenweb.
 
@DSM Yeah, it's production code. I translated it from C# to Python so the ROs wouldn't zap me for being off-topic :-P
 
@Kevin those monsters
 
All the principles are the same. What specific language it's in is just table dressing.
 
DSM
5:40 PM
I admire your dedication to room six. Truly your name deserves to be slanted.
 
also @holdenweb kind of freaked me out a bit because a coworker just linked a site where you can get free programming ebooks (oreilly.com/programming/free) right around when you posted that, and I was thinking.. does another of my coworkers hang out here? :o
 
Additional spoilers: my work does not actually involve sprockets or widgets at all.
 
@Kevin aww, I already imagined you to be an employee of Spaceley Space Sprockets:(
 
"we make widgets."
"what type of widgets?"
"widgets."
"no, really, what type?"
"aarrgh!"
 
I'm terribly disappointed that this book doesn't have a slightly different cover...
Mistakes were definitely made
 
5:43 PM
@WayneWerner ok this is getting creepy, that's the book my coworker linked
 
@enderland I wonder if your coworker is trying a not-so-subtle hint ;)
 
> Software Engineer at Softgate Systems, Inc.
nope, pretty sure not ;)
 
Mr Rogers teaches us that it's okay to make mistakes.
 
DSM
^ what I thought of
 
Sprocket, old boy!
 
5:46 PM
@AndrasDeak That was mostly intentional.
 
so why ruin it:P
 
George Jetson's job was to press a button for four hours every day. I wonder if that's better or worse than doing "real" work for nine hours, except you get to take reddit breaks every twenty minutes.
less time total, but much greater monotony... Hard choice.
 
@Kevin what about Homer Simpson's job?
 
Homer is very brave to nap on the job in full sight of the security cameras. Here's to you Mr Simpson
 
5:50 PM
@WayneWerner I generally would prefer xlsx instead of them saving CSV from xlsx and have it do "clever formatting" :)
 
I just wish QA would stop sending screenshots embedded in word documents.
 
Heh.
That reminds me of my last job, where we stored patient progress records as word docs.
To do that, we developed a form builder, so you could put a database in your word docs, basically
 
@Kevin I thought it happens only in India :-/
 
Nope, it's a universal constant.
 
and by "we" I mean the insane developers who came before me
it was pretty amazing, though.
 
5:53 PM
There will always be people who try to learn to do X, discover some roundabout way, then continue doing it that way forever.
 
(naturally there is at least 1 relevant XKCD. It's starting to be like the Rule 34 of tech things)
 
And eventually everybody does that and that becomes the "standard"
 
I guess I should be thankful they tried to learn to begin with. But for the grace of god I might have gotten a QA department that calls me up and asks me to take a screenshot for them, and reject all offers of teaching them how to do it with "but you do it so well"
 
gosh this is why I'm sad to be in QA officially, such a horrible association with... actually really bad people
 
Worst part is, we have a separate bug tracking tool, which allows them to upload files... Still they put all files in one word/powerpoint presentation and upload it.
 
5:55 PM
The QA team are all fine people. Just not fine techies.
They'll remember your birthday but not what the "print scrn" button does.
 
I don't like QA teams - they tend to get expensive to bribe to ignore bugs in your code...
 
@JonClements clearly I'm doing it wrong
 
need to get more bribes
 
5:58 PM
Props to them for testing the same 12 pages for the past zillion sprints. From all the regressions we hit, I bet it feels pretty Sisyphean from their end sometimes.
 
DSM
@thefourtheye: btw, I hope it's not too late to offer congratulations -- we were never around at the same time so I had to settle for adding a star. :-)
 
I am stuck at this basic question bpaste.net/show/c63da32d00b4
 
DSM
Am I a horrible person for thinking it might be kind of fun to do QA? I like breaking other people's code, and can usually do it.
 
@Kevin Indeed... but just keep doing it until they break and scream: "Yes - it passes... it passes.... Please stop now!"
 
@DSM it's more fun to do it programmatically and building frameworks to do so ;)
 
5:58 PM
@DSM Thank you :-) Its still in progress. I hope I get a place in CTC :-)
 
@idjaw I wonder how good the vietnamese restaurants there really are
 
@enderland How do you then QA your own QA framework?
 
just went to another recommended restaurant in Helsinki and it was pretty much awful :D
 
Cool image - might wanna run it through QA first...
 
6:00 PM
"Image not found" here :(
 
@JonClements ironic given the next chat message, hahahah
 
hmm
city of helsinki has a tld...
 
My question if for finding consective same elements for columns in list of lists. This is rather trivial using numpy. I am trying to do without it.
 
@AbhishekBhatia You need to have both the row and column coordinate. Right now you only have the column coordinate.
So you can't use for row in b:, you need something like for j in range(len(b)):
then you can compare b[j][i] with any of its neighbors in any direction. b[j+1][i] for the item one row below it, for example.
 
DSM
Or transpose the LOL and use exactly the same code..
 
6:02 PM
@DSM time is important
 
DSM
@AbhishekBhatia: if you're not using numpy, I doubt it.
 
I considered suggesting transposing but I decided it was too easy. How's Abhishek going to build character that way? >:-)
 
I know, sry but that's a unwanted numpy.
 
DSM
It's true, sometimes you don't want to add an extra dependency. But then don't say that performance is important, because it's obviously not. :-)
 
Incidentally I'm assuming you meant to write row when you wrote a in your code sample
 
6:05 PM
@Kevin oh thanks
 
Nobody who comes in here and says "performance matters for my project" is serious, because if they were, they wouldn't be using Python, and hence wouldn't come in here ;-)
 
@Kevin and you can chase them off with a large stick?
 
ipso facto, QED, Illegitimi non carborundum
 
@Kevin depends on what the comparison is ;-)
 
"Performance must be greater than doing all the math with pen and paper". Boy have I got the language for you
 
6:14 PM
@Kevin what's this pen and paper stuff you talk about!
 
And also many other languages, but let's just... [nudges them behind the doorway with my foot]
Python: the best programming language within direct line of sight of you (tm)
 
Did i do that right
cbg
 
There's no wrong way to cabbage.
Except standing up in a hammock, which is in violation of OSHA standards.
 
I'm all about nsfw standards
 
OSHA is very interested in making things safe for work.
 
6:27 PM
> while true: print("cabbage")
 
$new_hire put some code in widgets.cs but I think it would fit better in sprockets.cs but I need to do it secretly so as not to hurt his feelings
Possibly it's a bad idea to publicly express my intent as I have just done.
Nobody tell $new_hire.
 
DSM
Ehh, I'm never ashamed not to grok where $old_hire is in the habit of misplacing code. ;-)
 
Pinging @$new_hire.
 
DSM
6:39 PM
Genuine SO moment: I have to compare two potentially deeply-nested dictionaries in an error-tolerant way, and so I have to recurse. :-)
 
$new_hire_2 refactored sprockets.cs and now I can't figure out where I wanted to put $new_hire's code. Maybe I'll just leave it where it is.
 
DSM
And so the too-many-cooks downfall began.
 
Really the only difference it makes is that the search page will return 197 results instead of 200. I have no proof that any of our customers can count that high, so no problem there.
 
DSM
If I noticed that on a webpage I'd be worried about their attention to detail, TBH.. but then again I might hope they pass on the savings to me.
 
Engaging special $old_hire technique: sitting on a noncritical bug until I need a break from some particularly soul-crushing task. "hmm, why are there three fewer results than there should be? Carve out a couple hours in the sprint for me, would you?"
 
6:47 PM
Maybe you guys just need code reviews or something? There's a real "Cure the symptom" vibe to this bug.
"so as not to hurt his feelings" is not an okay standard for computer programmers, it's terribly unfair to Finns.
 
The true problem is that the business logic is spread over seven files and you can only map the behavior mentally if you've worked here for five years.
@QuestionC Nah, I'm just projecting. I don't want to engage in conflict, and I don't even want to admit that I don't want to engage in conflict, so I'm framing it like I'm trying to protect him when really it's all about me.
 
@Kevin can your customers count? 1, 2, ???
 
one, two, some, many.
 
why is duel of the fates such a cool song
 
@corvid something had to make up for the epic shitshow that was EPI
 
6:55 PM
John Williams is some kind of sound wizard, I'm pretty sure.
Are we sure he isn't three magical gnomes in a trench coat?
 
For some reason I always remember it as being not bad. Then I re-watched it and it does really suck
 
@corvid it's fun to watch. but terribad
 
I read an interesting article explaining how episode 1 sets the framework of a good movie, and how it failed to live up to its promise. It even provided a sensible justification of JarJar. Haven't got a link handy unfortunately.
 
You could take my uncle's approach to conflict avoidance using conspicuously placed firearms.
 
now I'm listening to it too
there's no plot and no main character in EP1
 
6:59 PM
But... they had to win the pod race! /s
 
Don't you remember the thrilling conflict of the trade embargo?
 

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