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10:02 AM
:o beginning of a blockbuster thriller
do include the subject when you post the final version
 
My friend tells me I should write a proper story. He writes a lot on www.paragraphplanet.com.
 
Plop!
Seeing poetry as soon as I enter is very nice, thanks David
 
I just recently discovered this room, and the corresponding team page. What is the association between this group and the elected moderators?
 
@merlin2011 There is no direct association. Sometimes mods pop in for a chat like any other user.
 
@merlin2011 They sometimes hang out around here, sometimes help fighting spam or very very bad posts. There is no direct association whatsoever.
Plop @merlin2011, and welcome =D
 
10:14 AM
@merlin2011 I'm intrigued though, does it look like there is a link somewhere?
 
@merlin2011 None.
 
Subject: write your obituary
’T was only 26 years after his birth.
He was in the middle of doing a 'git revert',
when death caught him by surprise.
His short life, flashing before his eyes.

Eating all those french fries
the night before proved quite unwise.
It may also have been the 2nd dessert,
that put him buried in the dirt

If he had been more alert,
he would still be unhurt.
He never reached life’s highs.
And now, his mother cries.
6
 
@TimCastelijns Nice star farm you have made :)
 
Thanks :P took me 20 mins
 
Excellent @Tim. But boy are we morbid today haha
 
10:21 AM
@DavidG blame the random subject generator!
 
@MsYvetteǝʇʇǝʌʎsW When you read this, your answer on Tiny's meta also represents exactly my feelings. Great kudos.
 
user3956566
@TimCastelijns bravo!!!! encore encore!!!
 
user3956566
waffles
 
More waffles!
 
user3956566
@Tunaki thanks, I didn't feel good about coming back here and realised that it's still the same room with the same good people :D
 
10:25 AM
@Tunaki The answer on there from last year... sigh
 
> There are no items for you to review, matching the filter "[close] [turtle]"
 
@Tunaki Feels like the longer we go, the less tags make any sense
 
I'm doing another batch of close right now. I don't know how many questions are still in the queue.
 
good job @TimCastelijns
 
Don't agree, suggesting that french fries can be a cause of death is just wrong. WRONG.
 
10:37 AM
@Gimby Some people can't handle the truth
 
Plop!
 
Plop!
 
Thick waffles
 
@user2314737 Ninja'd
 
@Kyll ok
 
10:43 AM
@Gimby sometimes you gotta bend reality in order to make it rhyme
 
@TimCastelijns fair enough
 
@PetterFriberg Commented on all answers except for the self-one
 
its the really bad oil that is generally used in snack joints that does it anyway :)
 
Huh, funny. I always see code in questions posted as an image, but this is the first time to see an answer with code as an image: stackoverflow.com/a/35865075/5299236
 
@PraveenKumar Not necessarily needed, Roomba will do its job
 
10:45 AM
And flag it or just comment?
 
@Kyll Ah... I had downvoted four causing me -4! LoL.
 
@Kyll The post is old (other rules I guess), was mostly sending cvs request since attracting spam answers... (that maybe spam was not intended)... but always good to educate users.
 
@KevinGuan Also see that users deleted answer too
 
@DavidG No, not that one.
 
@PetterFriberg It's one month old. Rules were the same
 
10:46 AM
:29197061 Commenting...
 
@KevinGuan I know, I'm just saying check out the deleted answer too. User needs educating in how to answer AND edit.
 
@DavidG, I only ask because it seems that this is a group interested in moderation activities, so I wasn't sure if at least one moderator was associated with this group.
 
@KevinGuan I deleted my previous statement
 
@DavidG Ah, okay. Will also add an [answer] magic link in my comment.
 
All right. New fresh questions in the queue for .
 
10:47 AM
@Kyll Sorry you are right.... Was reading clock 11 as 2011 lol... Comments always nice, thanks
 
@TimCastelijns Hmm...and Kyll posted another one.
 
@PetterFriberg ^^
 
Well that is Kyll's fault
obviously
 
@merlin2011 Ah I see. The confusion is that elected "moderators" are not the same thing as "moderation" coordinated in this room.
 
NUKE!
Fishes > poets
 
10:50 AM
g'morning all
 
user3956566
hi!
 
hi!
 
morning Jon
 
Plop Jon and @MsYvetteǝʇʇǝʌʎsW!
 
10:50 AM
@merlin2011 We do moderation activities like closing / reopening / editing / helping / burninating... but we're not moderators and have no connection with elected moderators.
 
Fair enough. Are there automated scripts that are sending close vote requests into this room, or is everything being done by people?
 
@JonClements Hiya
 
user3956566
@Kyll plop \o
 
@KevinGuan yes
 
10:51 AM
@Tunaki, Thanks for the clarification. :)
 
Hi Jon
 
@merlin2011 people. Although we have bots to track activity
 
@Tunaki Huh, edited then.
 
@MsYvetteǝʇʇǝʌʎsW Come on, that's a bad reason
 
user3956566
@KevinGuan yes, but a lousy question
 
10:52 AM
@KevinGuan "You can't do it from Dashboard." is an answer.
 
user3956566
@Kyll really?
 
What sort of activity is being tracked? Votes cast?
 
@Tunaki the moment you say "we have no connection with elected moderators" Jon pops in
 
@TimCastelijns lol
 
user3956566
@merlin2011 being done by people
 
10:52 AM
@Tunaki Already hear that and I have edited it.
 
user3956566
either close votes, open votes, or flags, usually spam or abusive
 
@merlin2011 I can't speak for all of them (a RO might have to answer that) but we track the number of question in the CV queue, number of requests
 
@MsYvetteǝʇʇǝʌʎsW It's like saying, "I'm voting to close this as off-topic because it is off-topic". It's circular. I prefer to explain what the question is versus what it should be.
 
user3956566
@KevinGuan it's all deleted now
 
@merlin2011 github.com/Charcoal-SE/SmokeDetector/wiki (this bot is in room)
 
user3956566
10:53 AM
@Kyll it's deleted already, so someone must've agreed with me that it was pretty obvious looking at it
 
@MsYvetteǝʇʇǝʌʎsW I'm very much aware of the exposure and power of this room. It is easy for us to cross an imaginary line that is drawn by others, non-regulars of this room. Based on the transcript outsiders, including mods, could conclude something was fishy. That it escalated was a bit unfortunate but not much I could do about that as I simply acted too late.
 
@MsYvetteǝʇʇǝʌʎsW Ah yeah.
 
@MsYvetteǝʇʇǝʌʎsW The room being frozen by Shog9 was just a measure to get the discussion focused at one place. I think that was a good call because it was already out of my hands/over my head. I think @TinyGiant, @drew and @jarrod challenged the system on its boundaries, that is fine because it is needed.
@MsYvetteǝʇʇǝʌʎsW Reputation for users should be based on their posts not on who they are. I think there should be no problem with users offering bounties for answers that are worth it even if it is based on can you see if this user has answers that could deserve a bounty. Yes/No are still options there. But lets the meta-post be the final judge.
@MsYvetteǝʇʇǝʌʎsW This room pushes against the rules, finds the borders of what can be done. Our burninating efforts, cv-pls, taggd focussed closing, Smokey reports, @drew's beehive are all examples of active, effective and now and then relentless moderating. In that process we all get bruished now and then.
@MsYvetteǝʇʇǝʌʎsW It needs our combined effort to work out how we achieve a consensus that works for us, the users that see moderation as needed and worthwhile doing, but is also acceptable for the community large, the mod-team and the CM-team. That needs that we listen, think, communicate, act, re-think, push forward, hold back and sometimes fall flat on our face.
@MsYvetteǝʇʇǝʌʎsW Just stay aboard on this bumpy ride. We are molding the community and testing the mod-team. It requires everyones feedback and we need our open minds to come up with the best timeline/deadlines/process/guidance/tooling/tricks. That is best done from within this room where we can at least try to keep everyone aligned.
I never promised that this would be easy and I never assumed I would always agree with everything that happens.
 
user3956566
thanks rene reading will reply
 
Err...these are bigger than an one-box.
 
10:55 AM
@PetterFriberg, Thanks for the link! This is an interesting group.
 
tries to keep up
 
user3956566
@KevinGuan he's the RO and it's relevant
 
@KevinGuan I have decided to become easier on kicks so don't test me
 
Nooo...I didn't say anything.
Is this one an answer? Or better post it as a comment? stackoverflow.com/a/35862153/5299236
 
What happened here
 
10:57 AM
This appears to have been a bit stressful for everyone - I'm still catching up (I was sound asleep). Try and let your frustration slide @rene - kicking won't help anything I'm afraid.
 
@KevinGuan It is an answer and might even be correct
 
user3956566
@rene thanks so much for your replies! I felt uneasy and like a betrayer posting that answer, but I am of the belief that we need to be harshest critics of ourselves. That way we can then be held accountable when held up to public scrutiny.
 
@Tushar Drama happened
 
@Kyll Huh, agreed.
 
10:58 AM
@rene should someone get kicked, does that mean "here is a time-out, come back tomorrow when things have cooled down" or does it mean "get out, and don't come back"? Couldn't find it in the FAQ
 
That will take you about 2 hours.
 
@TimCastelijns It's a timeout measure
 
OK thanks
 
@TimCastelijns time-out really but it is only for doesn't seem to respond to advice given
 
Kick = "you're crossing a line, get some air and come back when you've cooled down"
 
user3956566
10:59 AM
@rene I agree. I have decided to keep my fun levels here down and whenever a discussion goes offtopic, I makes sure to go to create a separate chat room. If you need help moderating the room, I am happy to be of assistance. I can remain calm and be strict. Even when the fun levels are high, underneath it I'm 48 years old and aware of what is appropriate for the room and what is in the room's best interests.
 
Thanks guys
 
@MsYvetteǝʇʇǝʌʎsW Couldn't agree more.
 
@TimCastelijns if necessary and someone's being a real pest in chat - mods can issue chat suspensions of any length (a kick will only suspend the user from chat for at most 30 mins)
 
@JonClements do ROs have a similar power? I would imagine they do, but from your comment I guess not
 
@JarrodRoberson I have left a comment for you but I'm time challenged for the upcoming 6 to 8 hours or so.
 
11:01 AM
@Tunaki Does it need a report? User has some rep, might be a cat-on-keyboard kind of issue
 
user3956566
I make the above offer as there are lengthy periods of time I'm in here and the ROs are not. It would be useful to have someone (whomever it is) to help cover the time zones @rene
 
Just checked what rene said @rene what happened to this room? Did Shog frozen this room before?
 
@MsYvetteǝʇʇǝʌʎsW yeah, we are aware of that issue
 
user3956566
@KevinGuan I will get you a permalink.. Please don't open this discussion again. Give me 30 seconds I will get you all necessary links
 
@Kyll You're right.
 
11:03 AM
@MsYvetteǝʇʇǝʌʎsW Ah, okay.
 
user3956566
here here here and I will get you the link where the room was frozen. @KevinGuan
 
@Tunaki I think author just deleted it, due to the new badge he got
 
he did
 
user3956566
@KevinGuan and here
 
@MsYvetteǝʇʇǝʌʎsW Okay ley me check.
 
user3956566
11:06 AM
@rene I thought Tiny was still RO, or I wouldn't have offered.
 
I think if the team decides they need another RO, the initiative has to come from them, not us
 
^ yes
@SmokeDetector still tehre
 
!!/alive
 
@DavidG Watching this endless list of new questions never gets boring
 
@MsYvetteǝʇʇǝʌʎsW he is in-active
Ok, I got to go, have to earn some real-money today. Play safe!
 
11:10 AM
take care @rene :)
 
@rene Thanks, you message to @MsYvetteǝʇʇǝʌʎsW as usual show's great judgement.
 
user3956566
@rene \o
 
@rene \o
 
user3956566
@PetterFriberg yes he's good value
 
"You can only counterflag messages that have been flagged" what does that mean
 
user3956566
11:14 AM
ok back to my blimps and bombs
 
means the flag was handled before you voted. Concurrency. And cache. I think.
 
Hi o/
 
@BhargavRao o/
 
@BhargavRao o/
 
@BhargavRao - Olo
 
11:15 AM
\o
ololo <-- Age of Empires. :)
 
@BhargavRao \o/
 
@BhargavRao - Dont remember that
 
@TimCastelijns Nope - I've campaigned in the past for an ROs kick to possibly go up to 4 hours - however, 30 mins is the max for a kick which mods receive an auto-flag for, so it's in mods hands to look at the situation and take appropriate action with the tools they have.
 
Oh Hiya @Jon o/
 
@JonClements ok makes sense, thanks for explaining
 
11:17 AM
@TimCastelijns I invalidated that flag pretty much as soon as I saw it :)
 
@JonClements cool, means I was right in my decision
 
@TimCastelijns Yup - didn't even need a room really, so I deleted the room as well
 
I'm see that often you (intended as room) do not use the auto comment for Software Rec
Unfortunately, questions asking us to recommend or find a book, tool, software library, tutorial or other off-site resource are off-topic here. However, you may find better luck SoftwareRecs.SE. Remember to read their question requirements as they are more strict than this site. — Petter Friberg 58 mins ago
Am I mis-using it?, should we not use it... what judgement should I have?
 
Why would we, the message is inserted automatically when the Q is closed
 
So basically it has not sense?
 
11:26 AM
In all cases where a Q is obviously a bad fit for SO and it reasonable to assume it will get closed some time soon, it makes no sense to manually comment why the Q is not a good fit since the automatically inserted close banner will explain it
At least that is how I see it, you don't have to agree of course
 
when do you think it can be useful?
 
When it's a low traffic tag or some other reason that makes you believe it won't get closed anytime soon
Or if you have something to comment that is not included in the close banner, since that message is pretty generic
 
Ok thanks Tim.
 
@PetterFriberg just a heads up - be very wary of recommending other sites - sometimes the OP that's going to post something off-topic on one, is not, going to make a great post on another - which means not only has it been shutdown on one site, but then leaves it open to moderation on another.
 
11:30 AM
Copy that. I only risk to create more work : )....
 
Np, creating work is good for the economy
 
Jon works for free so... no economy.... or who gives? : )
 
@Tim creating "proper work" is good for the economy - creating "work" for "work"'s sake is less so and actually counter-productive :)
 
Haha true
 
afk
 
11:34 AM
later tuna
 
@JonClements that happened in the 90s in The Netherlands, named "Melkert jobs" after the minister that introduced it
 
@adriaan the 90's really were not bad in the NL. Animal Crackers on the TV and politics were semi-sane.
 
@Gimby I'm not saying it was bad in the 90's here, just that those jobs were created. It wasn't that bad either, since the once that got those jobs earned the same amount as would be their government jobless-allowance otherwise, but now they cleaned the floors of the municipality building each week or similar things.
 
o/
I have arisen
 
@Magisch Nice lie in this morning!
 
11:44 AM
@DavidG Ok you got me, Im in my bed chatting on SO
 
Late night playing WoW huh? :P
 
Where are all these dutch people coming from :O
 
@DavidG Nah m8
High grade antibiotics knocked me flat out
I caught lung fever & tonsilitis
 
How are you now?
 
@adriaan and I wasn't suggesting that you were suggesting it was bad in the 90's :) Just reiterating on fond memories.
 
11:46 AM
Ugh nasty
 
@BhargavRao miserable, still got 41C fever and I feel like someone beat me with a stick for 12 hours straight
 
@Magisch Drink lots of water. Take rest. Don't stare a lot onto screens, it'll harm you more.
 
and stop beating yourself with a stick
 
Not really
its my only distraction while withering away here
 
@MsYvetteǝʇʇǝʌʎsW no. i do not think would be a good representative of this room. i am less than diplomatic at times.
 
user3956566
11:56 AM
@cimmanon yeh, but you're a straight shooter.
 
Hello. S-man.
 
Sam
Hey T-man.
 
@Gimby I was too young for most of that time to remember anything of it
 
Sam
@Magisch Hope you get well soon! :)
2
 
12:14 PM
Probably not spam. Still flagged as NAA
 
I flagged this answer quite some time ago as spam, which was "disputed" The user in question has written a toolbox to plot arrows in MATLAB, and answered a few questions on that, linking to his toolbox. He eventually added in that it was his toolbox. For this specific answer though, he doesn't answer the difficult parts of the question, just copies his own docs with images and code, but not on how to get the arrows into the plot and moving
I DVed and commented, haven't received feedback since and the post just got ignored from there on.
 
You can try and flag for moderator..., just be precis in you explanation.
 
@PetterFriberg someone else already did, which was helpful. He added his "full disclosure" as he calls it after a mod contacted him
answer's still not helpful as-is
 
I you feel its not helpful your option is down vote and move on....
 
12:21 PM
alright, thanks.
 
or pass a better answer : )....
 
@PetterFriberg the accepted, upvoted and bountied answer is good enough already
 
Then you know what to do with that.... if you see the user passing same answer on multiple questions, linking to his toolbox with the purpose of spamming... then I think the correct way is to raise a moderator flag, explaining this (include links to answers).... and let the moderators decide....
 
@PetterFriberg Nah, the first thing to do should be a comment explaining the situation
Explain what's the deal with duplicate answers and self-promotion (and the way it looks spammy)
 
Mogzie brought that up on meta. Pretty clear that the mods don't want those flags as first action by us peeps
 
12:25 PM
To expose your self or not is up to any user, but your solution seems more nice.
 
@PetterFriberg If you're not ready to expose yourself, don't moderate
Moderation is all about public actions
 
@PetterFriberg @Kyll that was actually done by someone else from , and his flag was accepted, a moderator contacted him and then he added into his answers that he wrote and sells the toolbox. User's not posted in 3 months though, so I'll forget about it soon I guess
 
I can't vote to reopen a question within the app meta.stackoverflow.com/q/318481/792066 :/
 
Shouldn't this be removed? stackoverflow.com/q/9768393/462627
 
@Adriaan Oh, okay then
 
12:28 PM
@Kyll I just wondered about your (room's) thoughts on this, now that I come here sometimes
 
@Drew As far as I understood that was if exact copy and past answer (automatic flag)
 
@Braiam I disagree with reopening because the question is written in a too opinion based way.
 
@Adriaan Oh. What did you get / conclude then?
 
@Ferrybig wut?
 
@PetterFriberg Just saying, use mods as last resort
 
12:30 PM
!!/blame
 
@KevinGuan It's Kevin Guan's fault.
 
@Kyll that I should comment the answerer the first time to add disclosure, mod flag if it happens more often. Downvote where I think the answer does not help and leave it to the moderators to clean up/go after the user.
 
@SmokeDetector Enough...
 
@KevinGuan so much burn
 
Yeah.
 
12:31 PM
@Adriaan Woah, okay. Yes that sounds very right.
 
So yeah. "I have this configuration file, is it correct?" stackoverflow.com/questions/35866902/hibernate-persistence-xml
 
hey there
 
@Kyll blushes
 
@Kyll What I intended is that often discussing with OP in comment threads only creates friction.... but I agree one comment on one answer is nice.
 
Plop Jan!
 
12:32 PM
@kyll well that answers the question I was preparing :)
 
@Kyll, hey there.
 
Sam
@Kyll edited
 
Hey @Kyll
 
Sam
@JanGreve Hiya
 
@JanGreve Hiya
 
12:35 PM
no train then, hu? ;)
 
@PetterFriberg Yes, it's quite an issue
@Sam Still bad imo =/
Plop @Magisch! Feeling any better yet?
 
Sam
@Kyll Yeah, but at least it's a question now.
 
@Sam Heh, yeah
 
Sam
Which now makes the answer valid. So I'd recommend not flagging it NAA.
 
@Gimby gratz for the comment
 
12:40 PM
@kyll yes the definition of "valid" is a bit broad there :)
 
@MsYvetteǝʇʇǝʌʎsW, you found a mirror?;) hi:)
 
user3956566
@JanGreve I did, it was my new name competition LOLOL
 
@MsYvetteǝʇʇǝʌʎsW done
 
user3956566
@JonClements thanks :D
 
Smokey report is still online!
 
12:43 PM
i voted. what about you?;)
 
that'll be a box of scooby snacks pls @MsYvetteǝʇʇǝʌʎsW :p
 
user3956566
@JonClements here
 
Sam
-1 for google
 
Morning
 
user3956566
@NathanOliver hi!
 
12:44 PM
Plop Nathan!
 
Sam
Morning
 
@NathanOliver Hi!
 
@NathanOliver Hi!
 
@NathanOliver cabbage :)
 
12:46 PM
I'll add that to my corned beef
 
1:00 PM
I guess that was a moderator delete... Because the answer wasn't at -5 already
 
There are mods lurking here
Silently, waiting.
 
Yep, mod delete
 
@Magisch :)
 
back
 
back
 
1:09 PM
back
 
Ian
hi all
 
Plop Ian
 
Ian
Hi Kyll
 
Hi o/
 
1:14 PM
@Ian Plop = Good bye
 
@Tushar Plop = Plop
 
Ian
@Tushar oo.. :) is it just Kyll's language?
 
@Ian It's everyone's favourite word
And by everyone I mean that most people around here probably want to hurt me each time I say it
 
Ian
@Kyll haha, I see...
 
Which makes it all the more delightful to say.
Plop.
Deliiightful.
 
Ian
1:15 PM
I was worried that this room would be inactive or frozen due to the recent case. That will make me sad...
But glad that we can still have a good chat here. ;)
Still 36 close votes to spend today. ;)
 
@kyll I like the word "plop". I read in a magazine once: "There is always the odd corker among the plop". I didn't know and still don't know what "the plop" was, but it was an awesome thing to parrot.
 
@JarrodRoberson I'm aware of that. But my top-voted answer is also a worthless RTFM answer:)
 
RTFM is an important skill that many lack, don't forget that
2
 
I know, but SO should not be the place for learning that
 
Ian
what is this RTFM?
I am still new :p
 
1:19 PM
@Ian read the ffff...ine manual
 
Google it
 
@ferrybig well that's because it is rather impossible for most of us, to reach the friggin' moon.
 
Ian
@AndrasDeak oh, sorry. -.-'
 
@Ian I mean that's the abbreviation;)
 
Ian
@AndrasDeak what?? Oh, I get it!
 
1:22 PM
morning!
 
Sam
Morning!
 
Hey @gunr
 
Ian
Ok, only 2-chained "morning" today. ;)
 
@NATO Ouf of flags!
 
Took you long enough slowpoke
 
Ian
1:24 PM
@Tunaki Got 15+ flags to spend.. if you need.
 
I should maintain a document that tracks how many hour I need to flag 100
Today, was ~4
 
minutes
 
Ian
@Tunaki That is a recordbreaking
 
@Tunaki Be lazy, write a userscript that tracks it for you, looking at your flagging stats
 
Ian
Why don't you put that in your profile instead of your Euler project achievement? ;)
 
1:29 PM
@Ferrybig True. I can do that.
That actually sounds useful.
Make a script that dumps an CSV with Day;#flags,#helpful,#disputed,#declined
 
guys? I flagged a link only answer and left a comment from review.
 
Disputed? :P
 
and graph that
 
the answerer just added a comment. now, it seems to be spam
 
@JanGreve why spam?
 
1:33 PM
(he's not disclosing that this is his library)
(btw, dv not from me;))
 
(technically)
I'll let it live.
 
@JanGreve So we comment and allow him to fix it.
 
the solution is to have a space: Linux (or BSD :) ).
 
Still looks weird
 
1:38 PM
(test (:)
 
@Tunaki, not better, imho ;)
 
@JanGreve did you mean: not better (imho ;) )?
 
Sam
How about using different brackets? Linux [or BSD :)].
 
I meant that's not better (for you (imho;), @Tunaki -:)))
 
the solution is not using parentheses for "or"
 
1:40 PM
now that looks weird
 
Linux or BSD :)
 
@Sam, at least in some languages different brackets have different meaning
 
Sam
@JanGreve Meh
 
@Tunaki that was completely unintended. </sarcasm>
 
Error opening tag not found
 
1:42 PM
afk
 
@Tunaki sigh
 
:)
 
@Tunaki, do not tease me, please. For my intern's peace of mind;)
otherwise, I'll show her how to construct a forest from a cyclic graph using a small rule set;)
(btw, I like 'forrest' for 'a bunch of trees';))
 
Error unrecognized symbol: "her"
 
CSV vs JDBC... that is a nice comparison...
 
1:49 PM
Sorry jan :P
 
I didn't knew the console could print pretty tables... — Braiam 39 secs ago
 
@TimCastelijns, :)
 
@Ian sorry, but could you make sure to include the cv reason in your request? Makes things clear for everyone else and helps with archival
(too late now, but for the future)
 
Ian
@gunr2171 my apologize, I missed it.
 
no problem
 

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