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9:00 PM
@Ell this.
 
Ell
more safety features -> less deaths -> deaths is below acceptable level -> increase speed -> death is now at acceptable level
 
the current level of death is only acceptable because it's not acceptable to lower the speed limit.
 
@Puppy is the current death rate acceptable for you or not?
 
if we can lower the level of death without bringing our society to a halt, we should.
 
I find you juggling human lives as data personally disgusting.
Especially that you're not even fucking driving.
 
9:00 PM
welcome to society.
 
don't blame society, it's you and only you
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, so I'm gonna get killed on the roads and it's not even gonna be my own fault
 
@BartekBanachewicz That is a poorly framed question, you know.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Really? Why don't you ask your local hospital why they don't treat everybody within a minute of arriving?
oh wait, it's because they can't afford enough doctors.
 
@Puppy you're the one that said reducing speed limits isn't practical
 
9:01 PM
why don't they buy the most expensive cancer drugs? oh wait, moneys again.
how about which crimes they choose to focus their police on?
 
if you get killed on a road that's just because you accepted higher speed limits and higher risks
 
or which diseases they focused their research on?
 
focus on the issue at hand
 
fact is, in our society we make choices where people are gonna die all the time.
 
9:02 PM
you're complaining that you might get killed on the road, but you don't deem other human lives to be nearly important enough to reduce limits
 
I have heard the number $4 million being tossed around as well.
 
@BartekBanachewicz No, I do.
 
so now bite the bullet and say with a straight face that your death is a calculated risk @Puppy
 
3 mins ago, by Puppy
I'd probably be in favour of lowering them a bit.
@BartekBanachewicz It is a completely calculated risk.
 
Pretty cool, not a lot of crashes involving helicopters. Mostly pilot error and flying ancient helis, which is still pilot error in essence.
 
9:03 PM
crossing the road every day is a calculated risk.
 
Ell
@Puppy why do you care about speed limits if you don't use car travel btw?
 
hell, for me, simply eating some foods is a calculated risk.
 
Evening
 
@Owatch terrible
 
my stomach is busy reminding me that it's now been a whopping 8 months since my last dose increase and that it might start ramping up
 
9:03 PM
@Ell because reducing freedom of others is a hobby of a lot of people
 
@Owatch It's not, it's a pointer
 
Ell
@Jefery evenin' jeffy
 
@Ell I still have to cross the road.
 
@Puppy you don't cross highways
 
not to mention all the indirect effects.
 
9:04 PM
anyway it all revolves around
 
what if the dude who got totalled on the motorway was gonna cure cancer?
 
Ell
@Puppy it's his perogative
 
user1804599
More evidence that dogs suck: the Polish word for dog means piss in Dutch.
 
lol
 
@Puppy "I want the chance of me being killed when crossing the road to be exactly x%. Anyone who wants >x is a crazy speeding bartek. Anyone who wants less, is impractical and unrealistic"
 
Ell
9:05 PM
what if he decided to burn the cure?
 
user1804599
OTOH the Polish word for juice means sock in Dutch so yeah.
 
@Ell Not really. He got totalled because some other dude was asleep at the wheel. That's nothing to do with his choice.
 
@Elyse The word "dog" means died in Swedish. Not sure how I feel about that tidbit.
 
Ell
@Puppy I'm saying that you're not entitled to his cure
 
@Elyse fuuuun
 
9:05 PM
@milleniumbug ALCRange *newArr = calloc(length + 1, sizeof(ALCRange *)); Am I not allocating length + 1 pointers to ALCRange * types?
 
@BartekBanachewicz I guess that you still want to ignore the fact that I said twice now that I'd be in favour of reducing the limits a bit?
 
Most people who get killed in car accidents by idiots are not the actual idiots at fault.
 
@Puppy reducing to some arbitrary level still
there are people who would reduce them more than you would
that's my point.
 
well, if I were actually in control of the speed limits, it would not be an arbitrary choice.
 
user1804599
@milleniumbug I always imagine the pack to contain sweat extracted from a stinky sock.
 
9:06 PM
I would make a few castings of Summon Statistician and then make a choice.
 
If I were a legal authority, a lot less people would be allowed to drive.
 
@Puppy what would you base it on? How many people would you allow to die?
Is 10000 people dying a year ok?
 
@Owatch you're allocating memory, yes. Now tell me what is the type of newArr and how many indirections you do there
 
well
I'd probably take a look at the other tradeoffs we make
like I dunno
 
@BartekBanachewicz Something probably based on average distance between vehicles and average stop time.
 
9:07 PM
@Puppy but essentially what comes out is "how many people do I allow to die in my calculations"
 
@BartekBanachewicz It's more about a net minimization.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes, why don't you accept that premise?
 
the question is how much money you gain by allowing them to die and whether that money could subsequently be used to save more lives.
 
Ell
man fuck you wileyfox, I only bought it the other month :V
 
9:08 PM
and my point is that you and robot and everyone here apparently thinks that just because your number is lower than say mine, you can throw shit at me, painting me as an inconsiderate idiot
 
user1804599
@milleniumbug inb4 8-star programmer
 
@milleniumbug newArr is a pointer to an array of pointers.
9
 
like "Could I expend this money that I got by killing those 10000 people to enforce a ban on smoking and save 100,000 people?"
 
Most people who want to drive blatantly fast IME are inconsiderate idiots.
 
Stop starring it.
10
 
9:09 PM
@Elyse It isn't, that's my point
 
FWIW everyone that got it in my car was surprised how calm I drive IRL
 
user1804599
Three-star programmer confirmed.
 
Risk compensation is a theory which suggests that people typically adjust their behavior in response to the perceived level of risk, becoming more careful where they sense greater risk and less careful if they feel more protected. Although usually small in comparison to the fundamental benefits of safety interventions, it may result in a lower net benefit than expected. By way of example, it has been observed that motorists drove faster when wearing seatbelts and closer to the vehicle in front when the vehicles were fitted with anti-lock brakes. There is also evidence that the risk compensation...
 
@Owatch Stop being bad at C++. :(
 
@ElimGarak If it's not in a race track I also agree
 
9:09 PM
not that it concerns you a tiny bit but w/e
 
@ElimGarak It's C.
 
user1804599
@milleniumbug My new wallpaper features you.
 
@Owatch Visit Lounge<C>.
 
Its always dead.
Believe me, I tried to give it life.
 
@Owatch Thanks for the tip.
 
user1804599
9:09 PM
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes, that's absolutely correct. You're killing a whole bunch of completely unrelated innocent people who did not want to die, and orphaning all their children. If you're going to kill them, it should at least be for a meaningful benefit, rather than just the lols.
 
user1804599
At work I have a nice 1080p version though.
 
@Puppy the benefit is implied. You gain something you lose something. When you set out speed limits, you're essentially putting a dollar value on a human life.
 
the difference between us is that you want to kill them for your fun and convenience, and I want to kill them for the net benefit of society.
 
9:10 PM
@Elyse Nice dice
 
Well, it is. I mean, all arrays are just pointers.
 
@Puppy net benefit in dollars
 
And I allocated n * sizeof(pointer)
 
amazing.
 
So I made a pointer to pointers.
 
9:11 PM
@BartekBanachewicz To some extent, yes.
 
@Owatch No.
 
@Owatch unless you sizeof them.
 
people need dollars to live.
you can save plenty of lives with the correct application of dollars.
 
user1804599
@milleniumbug I also like that the dice are consistent.
 
You don't need to drive fast. It's simple as that.
 
9:11 PM
Reread the relevant chapter of your book
 
@ElimGarak bullshit
 
Sigh. Okay..
 
user1804599
Opposite pairs of sides always sum to 7, so the nuke symbol is 1, not 6.
 
@Puppy then I'd say you're way more cruel and inconsiderate than me
 
@BartekBanachewicz That really depends on what I would do with those dollars.
if I just wanted to have the dollars for myself, then I certainly agree.
 
9:12 PM
@Puppy you seem to be assuming that you can literally take saved dollars and use them to save lives
 
Idiots surpass me on the road driving like fucking retards and I still meet them at the traffic light in the city, they got nowhere fast literally.
 
why not cut the space program instead
 
in many cases, that is exactly what you can do.
 
or dunno, raise taxes for the rich
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz no :(
 
9:12 PM
raising taxes for the rich won't kill them but can save lives
 
for example, see the rate of suicide in Greece to see how many people a lack of dollars can kill.
 
The space program was cut a long time ago.
 
user1804599
doing so is unfair
 
@BartekBanachewicz It's also dubiously effective, since the rich can just leave, and you can have less dollars than you did before.
 
@BartekBanachewicz So then rich leave your country to go somewhere else and you actually lost money
 
9:13 PM
if you could raise taxes on the rich and actually make them pay it, then I would do that in preference of raising the speed limit.
 
Ell
Geography needs decoupling from politics :V
 
@Owatch A pointer to a type T is T*. If the T is not a pointer, T* is not a pointer to a pointer.
 
user1804599
@Jefery my dentist (dentists are rich) lives in Belgium because of more favourable taxes.
 
Raising taxes for the rich will only antagonize them and they'll withhold even the tiny amount (relatively large for mortals) they were paying in the first place.
 
Why don't we start with cutting army funding then
 
9:14 PM
the space program is a lot more complex but considering that our society is the house that science built, I'm not inclined to believe that cutting scientific endeavours saves dollars. It probably actually costs several dollars.
 
oh wait no that means killing people
 
You need an army
 
does it?
 
@Puppy now you can't help all those people abroad
eh see how it's all connected
 
if the military is the correct solution
then yes, it could be a net loss.
 
9:14 PM
but no, let's pick at Bartek because he thinks current speed limits are meh
 
Why are you guys moving the goal post?
 
despite the fact that there are NUMEROUS consequences
 
yes
 
Current speed limits are too high because most people ignore them to an extent.
 
@Jefery I'm doing that to showcase how absurd the "if you want different speed limits than me you're an idiot" mindset is
 
9:15 PM
because you're selfishly trying to raise the speed limit for nothing other than your own temporary satisfaction.
at least if I raised the speed limit it would be for something.
 
right, justifying it with unmeasurable gains in dollars for the well-being of the society is waaaay better
 
@BartekBanachewicz It's more like "if you want to higher speed limits so that everybody is in a more dangerous status for no apparent benefit you are not thinking straight".
 
well, I imagine it's not unmeasurable
 
@BartekBanachewicz A few jokes were made, please don't take it the wrong way like this.
 
that's why you cast Summon Statistician first.
 
9:16 PM
@CaptainGiraffe no, the way was to insult me freely again
 
it's obviously key in the whole process to get some dudes to properly measure all of the relevant effects.
 
just because I have different views about things
 
@BartekBanachewicz It is. At least that involves attempting to do things for the well-being of society.
 
There is absolutely no reason to increase the speed limit. In fact, it's reckless and dangerous.
 
@ElimGarak lol dude have you been following even 10% of the discussion
 
9:17 PM
even if it never saved a single person, at least it was in that direction and could help future societies make better related decisions in the future.
 
I agree with Elim
 
Speed limit stays where it is. Thanks.
 
bullshit, and it won't
unless you're making your own totalitarian country
 
Oh, yes it will.
 
it doesn't work like you'd like it to
too bad m8
 
9:18 PM
indeed, I'm certain that nobody will learn the lessons of raising the speed limit, killing a bunch of people, and then not getting any dollars with which to save people.
 
On which planet does Bartek live?
 
sounds like the kind of thing I'd forget overnight, frankly.
 
@ElimGarak on which the law is chosen by the people
 
I actually hope they'll lower them by like 10km/h or so. Not sure if that will have an effect, but when in doubt it's probably better to just lower them.
 
not by a particular maniac in a chatroom
 
9:19 PM
Until only self driving cars are allowed of course. At that point you can make them higher I suppose.
 
@BartekBanachewicz And, if I remember the speed signs from earlier today... It's mostly a mesh of 30, 40, 50, 80, 90, 110 and 130.
 
there will be no point where only self-driven cars are allowed
not in tangible future
 
that is exactly what should be the case
 
@ElimGarak On Planet upset and a little hurt. I suggest we offer Bartek our apologies and move on to the next fruitful topic.
 
I appreciate that I'm only one voter, but any meatbag who promises to remove other meatbags from driving will get my vote.
and I imagine that the families of all the dead on the roads will probably join in.
 
9:20 PM
@Puppy weren't you also in favor of banning race tracks
last time I remember you were
 
eh
I don't really see what benefit they serve
but on the other hand, they don't really endanger the public either.
 
@Puppy so you choose to ignore everyone else
 
The way speed limits work in most countries which are reasonably inhabited by crash-inducing douchebags is that they already read them as 2x. So, 50 is 100. 130 is 260. With Bartek's changes, the only thing stopping them from 450 km/h is the car they are driving.
 
so I see no particular reason to ban them.
 
People enjoy racing and people enjoy people seeing other people race.
 
9:21 PM
I get to do my own personal risk management on a racetrack.
 
@Jefery puppy talked about how racetracks are bad for the environment and are a waste of money
i could pull up the discussion about that
 
I dunno, money from racing goes heavily into automotive research which can result in improved safety and fuel efficiency for regular cars.
 
@Jefery Unless it's in Monaco.
 
but yeah, I'm all for banning manually driven cars as long as you provide separate tracks for manual driving for fun
 
so it's not really a clear-cut issue.
@BartekBanachewicz There you go again. Waaaaaah, my fun. Fuck your fun. People are dying out there.
 
9:23 PM
here we go again
 
outlaw manual driving :P
 
my views are best, any other views are bad and fuck them
 
Yeah, let's all race through the city. If possible for extra adrenaline, through the school district and by Puppy's workplace.
 
god damn it
> separate tracks for manual driving
 
are you seriously suggesting that other people should die for your entertainment?
 
9:23 PM
@BartekBanachewicz You mean race tracks?
 
@Puppy Well, I think he'd accept serious injury as well.
 
@Jefery no, robot painted an idea of separate, closed tracks going places as well
"trails"?
 
Sounds very costly to duplicate tracks like that for "fun".
 
If you think Bartek is bad, wait until you meet his children.
 
Why can't you just go have fun in actually designed race tracks?
 
9:25 PM
@Puppy no, I'm saying that manual driving is an important part of our society on many levels and you can't just pick it out and kill it
@Jefery ^
 
that is exactly what should happen.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Why?
 
let me give you a different example
 
@Jefery Because he can't get off with a robot in control.
 
there are many cultures that involve potentially dangerous activities
we conserve them as a part of our human identity
 
9:26 PM
Yeah, in 100 years, people will mockingly remember manually driven cars. Just like me loling at carriages in Syndicate today.
 
Unfortunately more
 
100 years? not a chance.
 
@Jefery Some people like being subjected to acceleration forces
 
Would an autonomous car have cow countermeasures built in? Like a 24-round machine-gun?
 
You underestimate human progress, bby.
 
9:27 PM
why don't we abolish other languages than one as well
 
@milleniumbug They should learn how to race and go race
 
@BartekBanachewicz We pretty much don't conserve them and shouldn't either.
@BartekBanachewicz The only reason we don't is because nobody can agree on what the one should be.
 
@Jefery everyone should learn english and speak english
 
@BartekBanachewicz I would actually be up for that
 
yeah, let's make everyone the same
 
9:27 PM
@milleniumbug What happened to those force-feedback controllers? Are they still selling?
 
namely, the speaker.
 
It's not the same, it's convention.
 
@CaptainGiraffe they don't do acceleration.
 
@Puppy alcohol is still a thing
 
That actually have a useful trait.
 
9:28 PM
alcohol is perfectly safe in moderation
I would be all for making binge drinking illegal.
 
I think you're really, really intolerant of other people's views
 
Isn't that ironic?
 
I'm like really close to you being western culture and more or less the same age
 
Only if they're really, really bad
 
but seriously, the world is soooo different
@ElimGarak IOW "really not like mine"
 
9:29 PM
Things being different is fine
People wearing different clothes is fine
 
@Jefery except when it's not?
 
Different cultures having different dishes is fine
 
No, the kind of view that you're the guy that overtakes me at a particularly dangerous part of the road due to your speed fantasies and I have to hit to brakes to save the other guy's life who is coming from the other direction.
 
People speaking different languages is also fine
 
@ElimGarak yeah keep making a strawman out of this
sigh
 
9:30 PM
Except that I think that everybody should learn a common language
Like it already happens. More or less.
 
@Jefery it is. I've been doing that for a loooong time
if you haven't noticed, I'm trying to change that.
but to each their own.
 
@Jefery consider all of us talking here
 
I just hope you kill yourself and don't pull anyone else with you. If that can be arranged, drive as fast as you want.
5
 
@milleniumbug Yeah
 
@ElimGarak yeah, this is it in a nutshell
 
9:31 PM
@ElimGarak :+1:
 
thanks for providing me a nice firm reason to step out of this "discussion"
bye.
 
I personally wouldn't mind italian to go away in favour of English. But I'm sure that many people studying literature and all that is related to the language would be pissed.
I mean, I don't know.
 
Now, let's find cock jokes for the starboard
 
I've been a first responder to a few accidents (due to speed mostly) and the consequences are not pretty. I hope you get the pleasure of witnessing one first hand. Maybe it'll change your views.
 
@Jefery No
English sucks
Italian's great
 
9:32 PM
I don't think we need different languages. You can always learn it on your own. Just like you can learn Latin on your own.
 
@Jefery It was the Italians that invented sign language right?
 
@BartekBanachewicz You're damn right. People's views should meet a minimum standard before they become reality.
 
@Jefery With language comes how you think, how you perceive the world
There's a VSauce on that, IIRC
 
At the same time I think I've read a study once of how language creates a specific thought process which is different from language to language.
So that may be something that we lose.
 
A human can't be efficiently in control over a 1500 kg vehicle driving 200 km/h. The thing about driving fast is that it is secure... Until it is not. It's a false sense of security & control.
 
Ell
9:34 PM
Cards against IT: info.varonis.com/…
 
@набиячлэвэлиь Something like that.
 
@Jefery Learn another language. For christssakes how hard is it???
 
Sep 8 at 15:25, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@milleniumbug No. There's evidence of certain differences in the way subjects think that correlate to language properties.
 
@CaptainGiraffe Molto
 
Va bene.
 
9:37 PM
"Son, are you exploring your body in there?"
cringe
 
Is that your dad?
 
Watching PhillyD recount his first times and stuff, fun stuff.
 
Jesus Christ, Transmission, why can't you just close off and kill yourself.
Not even "Force Quit" is able to handle your instability
 
@Ell Ayyy, nice
 
Woah, top CL utility is responsive
 
9:41 PM
@Jefery -9 is your friend.
 
Let me just find this motherfucker's PID
 
top defaults to the top consumer when you try to 'k' - kill it
 
@Jefery OS Xing :P
 
o_0 Why am I looking to spend like 300 odd on a graphics card that I'm not going to make use of?
@CaptainGiraffe htop or bust
 
@thecoshman Classic
 
9:44 PM
because you're bad at managing money?
(dunno, just guessing)
 
Fuck, how do you find the PID of a process?
 
@thecoshman Shuttleworth makes all of my important software decisions for me. Maybe I should reconsider.
 
inb4 "What is Google?"
 
with ps piped to grep
 
@Jefery Doesn't top give yeh one?
 
9:45 PM
@milleniumbug I think frivolous is the word
 
@набиячлэвэлиь It's not listed there
 
Why don't you just reboot?
 
@thecoshman Because you can, it's the best feeling in the world, cherish it <3
 
Seems easier than sysadminning to me
 
I'll reboot
I'm going to kill this motherfucking process first. It has become personal.
 
9:49 PM
Shoot it
 
@Jefery ps axw |grep process_name?
 
With the Antimaterial Rifle
 
Just let him fall into my line of sight
 
@ElimGarak I rarely enjoy having spent money. Basically every purchase, almost however trivial, is swiftly followed by regret. Usually I'll be glad of the purchase eventually, usually.
 
Fuck
It doesn't appear in the list of opened processes
 
9:50 PM
@набиячлэвэлиь No more than once a month, if I really have to.
 
@Jefery It's a zombo
Reboot and be done with it
 
What could help is establishing a percentage of your treasury which you can officially spend without regret. That's mostly how I operate. As long as your decision cannot seriously bite you in the ass, you're good.
 
Or just kill every PID
 
Why are there like 20 "chromedriver"s opened
Chrome is not even opened
 
@thecoshman suck
 
9:52 PM
Fuck this shit
 
Ell
process pool?
 
@ElimGarak I did that, I stuck to it, it didn't change things, except now I can look back at what I've spent money on.
 
Ell
killall chromium
 
@Jefery It has issues shutting down. We see that at work as well.
 
kill {99999..1}
 
9:52 PM
@Jefery It likes to sit in the background, to hide the 10GB it has to load to startup
 
Or however you do list-expansion in bash
 
@wilx refusal is an 'issue'?
 
@wilx s/shu.*wn//
 
@Jefery What I do is loop over all windows and call .close() and then .quit(). It works for some Slenium drivers and not for others.
 
9:53 PM
I feel a hangover day coming up... time for beer
 
It's recursive
 
chrome.__chrome._Chrome._Windows.foreach(w => {w.close(); w.quit();});
 
@Jefery Kill it with fire!
 
@Jefery Start Chrome, it will get OOMed away
 
¬_¬ fuck... I need help, I just thought about going to the worst (nearly only) club in town
 
9:55 PM
@Borgleader @jaggedSpire :3
 
@thecoshman We can help you here. Cheers!
 
@thecoshman stay here :)
we can entertain you, surely :)
 
I have been magnificently entertained the last hour.
 
This place is terrible
 
Get wicked drunk, mate
 
9:57 PM
@набиячлэвэлиь I'm not aiming to, but I'm not going to stop it
 
@thecoshman 'S 'll g'd, mate
 
@thecoshman <3
 
BOOM
Headshot
 

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