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Xeo
7:00 PM
man, steak's so delicious.
 
@LucDanton what's that
 
@Rapptz Hi
 
hi
 
@Jefffrey It gave me a lot at first, but then loads of noobs came in, a few reasonable people left, and I don't really feel like it's going the way it did.
or maybe it's just that I've moved forward and the room didn't.
 
7:09 PM
rooms don't move silly
rooms don't have the ability to move
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yessss
I didn't know it was available already
 
@CatPlusPlus It's amazing watch watch watch it
@AlexM. I think we could become more elitist stuck-up assholes but then again some people wouldn't consider that "forward".
 
different people want different things from a chatroom at the end of the day
 
I for one want to learn as much programming as possible.
Because I suck at programming.
 
you don't want elitist assholes to learn, elitist assholes are good at gathering together and keeping the outside away
that's a diff thing
 
7:17 PM
@AlexM. and also leveling up themselves
 
and giving their members a sense of belonging
 
@AlexM. And mutual wanking it appears O:)
 
I mean if you want to "belong" to C++ community, by which I don't mean "users of C++" but really "the C++ folk" you need to hardcorely learn the language.
 
@Rapptz having one base not prevent aggregate init
 
oh
 
7:18 PM
and if a few people aim at that they suddenly start kinda discovering stuff and then they brag to the few other that can understand them
 
I get you
 
but that means the level of where you can brag raises constantly and people start falling off
 
Xeo
@LucDanton wait, what was the one that allowed NSDMIs and aggregate init together?
 
unfortunately that's not a good goal for a public chatroom
it's after all public
 
@ᐅJohannesSchaub-litbᐊ Not sure, hence the "at least"
 
7:20 PM
nothing stops anyone from entering and rules stop us from keeping others away
 
it's really about valuing knowledge more than cat videos
 
@Xeo extended aggregate init, so I guess I’m really talking about extended extended aggregate init
 
Xeo
hrhr
NSDMIs are so awesome
 
in a way Luc's kinda topping the charts on being the kind of elitist asshole I have in mind
2
 
lol
 
7:24 PM
@Rapptz Irony Overflow?
 
anyway it turns out that I'm kinda becoming a nodejs developer and that's funny
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes mhm
 
we're kind of hitting its limits at work and it's pretty hilarious what you can force the thing to do
 
we're being forced to use it at wokr
 
and at the same time what simplest tasks are totally out of reach for this parody of a platform
 
7:25 PM
my wanker colleagues decided that they had to have pointless stylesheets instead of nice inline style
2
 
lol we had the HTML 4.0 discussion already
back in 1998
can we move on from that plz
 
it's funny that nobody can remember any of the arguments, then
 
@Puppy yes puppy, literally not a single person on the planet remembers any arguments that kicked out inline styles from HTML and google search produces exactly 0 results
 
doesn't matter what Google says
you want to be snarky about it, you say it
 
7:27 PM
I'm not gonna make your case for you
 
ITT "Google search results" = "What Google says"
I am sure it's just a conspiracy of Alphabet to hide the history of HTML from people who know the truth
 
@BartekBanachewicz He means it doesn't matter if you can google the arguments: his coworkers made their choice without being aware of them.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I did nuthin'!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes a weird way to phrase it, then
 
7:29 PM
So I've decided to start using databases instead of files more
 
well, I mean more generally speaking that if you want to act like CSS is so much better than inline style, then you need to say why.
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz SQLite for the win!
 
@Lalaland I was thinking something like Mongo really.
 
Media queries, better tooling, separation of concerns
 
daym, and I thought me doing wpf was bad
 
7:30 PM
But your response is "I don't need that" so
yawn
 
I'd put "separation of concerns" as the first one really.
 
user406009
Mongo requires a server set up, etc, etc.
 
But if you're making applications in HTML then you're abusing it anyway so
 
@Lalaland So?
 
@Lalaland yeah I'm starting to mind it less these days
 
7:31 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I thought you said 'database'
 
well I certainly don't need media queries and my experience of the tooling is that describing it as "better" is being pretty generous at best.
 
@CatPlusPlus hrhr.
 
as for separation of concerns, I frankly don't see how stylesheets is separating the concerns at all.
 
@Puppy perhaps you should study the topic then.
 
user406009
@CatPlusPlus It's another moving part in your system.
 
7:32 PM
perhaps you should fucking make an actual argument instead of just going "waaaah I'm so superior"
I thought you had moved on past that?
 
SQlite is also a moving part, it's just embedded in other moving part
How does separating structure and presentation help separate structure and presentation: the argument
4
the game the movie
 
@Puppy In one approach they are together, and in the other they are not.
Does this help
 
that's a circular argument, since you're suggesting that they're actually separated.
which they're not.
 
@Lalaland That's only a valid metric if everything else is equal
You can't avoid moving parts that implement things you need
 
writing the styles in a stylesheet just literally separates the source characters, it does nothing at all to separate the concepts.
 
7:33 PM
@Puppy so what you're struggling with is the definition of the word "separated"
 
And really if you have a 'system' then SQlite already lost
 
@Puppy that means you don't understand CSS.
Let's start with how classes are composable first.
 
feel free to point out something else useful that it does
 
@Puppy What
 
user406009
I still like the ability to have one self contained executable rather than having two.
 
7:34 PM
well, you can easily _.extend inline styles, so it's not like they're not composable
 
user406009
Don't need to worry about Mongo crashing and your executable living or vise versa.
 
user406009
Especially when you are shipping executables instead of running them on a server you control.
 
What's _.extend? Some JS magic or typo?
 
@Puppy can you provide a short example of that?
 
@Puppy You can swap a stylesheet without touching the structure
 
7:35 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Underscore/React
 
OW
Ew\
Ugh
JS for styling.
 
@CatPlusPlus You can swap inline styles just the same.
 
36 secs ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@Puppy can you provide a short example of that?
 
Any system to do that with React inline styles is literally CSS but worse
 
I dunno what's happening.
 
7:36 PM
Because, again, media queries
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Puppy became a web dev consultant.
 
And tooling
 
not to mention compile-to-css which admittedly might count as tooling
 
Puppy way is the only way and everything else is obviously shit~~~
8
 
Btw, cracked open a Haskell repo github.com/rmartinho/athame.
 
7:37 PM
@BartekBanachewicz What exactly are you expecting an example of? An assignment? A call to _.extends? I don't know what you want from me here.
 
"I can reinvent CSS in JS" therefore CSS is bad
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes first star was from me
@Puppy an example of how the code composing inline style looks
I can show you CSS composition
 
@BartekBanachewicz Oh. Didn't notice it was starred already.
 
.a { ... }
.b { ... }

<span class="a b"></span>
 
user406009
I actually think Puppy has a good point here. Unless you are very careful, your CSS stylesheets are going to be highly coupled to your HTML anyways.
 
7:38 PM
@BartekBanachewicz It's just "You have two variables, and then you extend them".
 
You don't have to be very careful
You just need to know CSS
 
that's it.
much like how you may choose to add properties to any other object in JS.
 
@Puppy IDGI how that's "inline" then.
you clearly define the style outside
except you use JS instead of actual CSS it compiles to which would be the same but without the hassle
 
it's just a javascript variable, you can define the variable wherever you want, just like any other.
or take it as an argument or anything you can do with normal javascript.
 
7:40 PM
@Puppy I get that, but I don't get why you still call it "inline"
 
This discussion is urbit
 
there's nothing "inline" about a style defined outside.
 
@StackedCrooked you've got JS on coliru, be careful so it doesn't spread to other files
 
user406009
@CatPlusPlus Did anyone find out if that thing was just a troll attempt?
 
It ends up being inline in DOM, and is still mixed with HTML code
 
7:40 PM
and if you define it outside just use fucking CSS because fuck you need JS for
 
well, it's simply a stylistic choice to define the variable outside the function rather than be a direct literal argument.
 
@Lalaland It's not
 
I sometimes do use a direct literal argument.
 
"hey Puppy we need to implement a separate stylesheet for small screens" w e l p
 
lol
 
7:41 PM
@CatPlusPlus he would use more variables, duh.
 
indeed, I'm sure that your web app will keep working just fine with identical HTML and logic, just sprinkle in a couple different styles
 
Uh yes
 
I'm sure that the UI design and everything will just port over without modification
 
People have been doing that for years
 
yeah, and it produces some seriously shitty websites
 
7:42 PM
Uh
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I wanted to submit a PR but was just leaving work
 
user406009
Well, there is this: csszengarden.com
 
unless you have a very simple one.
even my company's application has a couple of UI designs that would not simply port over with just style changes.
 
And that's a proof for what
 
it's not "proof" of anything
 
7:43 PM
It turns out that the same document can be presented in multiple ways welcome to 1980!!!!!!
 
lol, this reads like "I have no idea what I'm talking about"
 
@Puppy Yes, that is what I said
 
CSS is only a tiny fraction of the presentation, though.
 
If you're using inline styles
 
even if you use stylesheets.
 
7:44 PM
You can have literally no CSS in HTML code and have fully swappable stylesheet
It is the entire presentation layer hth
 
not really
 
Ok englighten me
 
even for simple inputs like date inputs, the best user experience comes from different HTML depending on the target.
the HTML5 date pickers for e.g. iOS are a lot better
but they're at least somewhat worthless on desktop even in Chrome, and FF/IE have basically no useful support for HTML5 date pickers.
so if you want to have a date picker that does not suck, you are going to need the HTML5 one for mobile devices and a custom one for the desktop.
 
That's functional issue not presentation
 
the view the user receives on their screen is completely different.
it's a presentation issue.
it's the way the control is presented.
the function of the control, allowing the user to put in a date, is identical in both cases.
hmm, let's see
ah yeah, position: fixed elements.
 
7:48 PM
Design garbage
 
we have a rich text box with a rich text toolbar- it's pretty much the same as the one you can use for SO questions, etc.
so we stuck it to the screen so if you have a massive form (it happens) then you can still use the rich text toolbar.
 
Also fine it's presentation, that doesn't make CSS "a tiny fraction"
You're still literally styling it with CSS
 
unfortunately it turns out that mobile safari disables all position: fixed elements when the keyboard comes up.
so the whole idea of having this toolbar can never work.
dunno what we're gonna do on mobile, we just turned it off for now
but since we can't give the user the RTT when they're typing, and selection is a bitch anyway, we'll probably need something quite different.
hmm, we have audio scrubbers for playing audio, bit of a problem since the screens are so small it's difficult to be precise, so we'll probably need something different there as well.
 
"I don't need media queries"
 
a media query is not even remotely capable of fixing those problems.
 
7:51 PM
puppy can you please make a better video player than the one firefox has
 
we need fresh UI designs and new implementations, not just a couple different styles.
 
ugh now it crashes the audio
I got scared because it sounded like a BSOD was coming
 
I've played some Borderlands 2 and jesus it's so boring
 
yes
 
We somehow got below the exp curve and now all enemies have skulls and do like 99% damage with one hit
 
7:55 PM
I enjoyed B1 because I played it with 3 other people
but alone it would have never been fun
 
I don't play alone
But still
2 hours and we cleared out like 1 quest because the damage is just so fucking ridiculous
 
> Originally Posted by Blizzard
SENIOR SOFTWARE ENGINEER, CLASSIC GAMES
Compelling stories. Intense multiplayer. Endless replayability. Qualities that made StarCraft, Warcraft III, and Diablo II the titans of their day.
I hope that's a typo and they mean Diablo 1
(remake)
 
nope, they're gonna mean Diablo 2
 
fuk
 
D1 was meh
 
7:56 PM
gedoutahere D1 was the best
this does not exist in D2
 
What, bad VA?
:v
 
man the sound the hidden make when killed <3
two more memorable sounds are those made by death knights and succubi
when dying
 
I'm falling asleep just looking at this gameplay
 
ok you don't like it I guess
 
D3 had issues, that's for certain, and so did D2, but they were both better than D1.
 
8:01 PM
I played Path of Exile a bit
Got to third act I think? It's so fucking grindy
All of those games are
 
except for D1 which wasn't grindy :P
 
D3's issues kinda don't really matter if you have friends shouting stupid shit to you in your headset at the same time.
I realize that many games get a free pass when played with friends.
Borderlands 2 was also one of those deeply flawed games that's great with people you know.
 
@CatPlusPlus it kinda is, but not to the point that it detracted from my enjoyment :v and I’m not for grinding
 
I fell below damage curve and it just takes too long to kill shit
 
yeah fail often, reroll often :D
 
8:05 PM
If you could reroll on the go
 
What do you mean? I have something like 15 characters
 
I don't want to start from scratch :V
 
oh, one way to enjoy the game is to make new builds from scratch, and is how I play it
dunno how you salvage bad builds
and I really dislike the standard economy
 
I go to forums and pick a build that seems to be easy
Not very good at theorycrafting
 
bahaha, I made the video still play sound even though I left the page
this browser is shit
 
8:08 PM
Flash?
 
Every browser is shit
 
Firefox UI keeps breaking and I keep having to restart it and it's still better overall than Chrome
Opera no longer exists, Safari is shitty Apple joke
I don't really trust Edge to be good
 
IE is laffo
There's really no choice
 
8:09 PM
I immediately decided to not use Edge after Win10 made it my default browser when upgrading from Win7
 
@CatPlusPlus yeah but regret orbs are pricy
 
yea that's the sad part, firefox being somewhat predictably bad is still better than chrome doing shit like unpredictably freezing when trying to save a file => end process
 
reminds me of Visual Studio
 
> Tu pleures-tu ou tu te masturbe?
 
got to turn off resharper before adding files or projects.
 
8:10 PM
@LucDanton Yeh I haven't even tried to make anything out of that economy system
 
@EtiennedeMartel j'ai masturberai avec une hande
 
why don’t you like to reroll btw? I thought you liked the rogue-like playstyle
 
@AlexM. "Je me masturbe avec une main"?
 
Yes, but roguelikes are designed for starting from scratch
This game takes way too long to get to where you were
 
@EtiennedeMartel oui, camembert
 
8:11 PM
Rerolling in a roguelike is cheap, because games are short.
It all depends on how much progress you lose.
 
I mean I can make builds and never leave act 1 but is there really much point to that
 
@CatPlusPlus PoE kinda is, although on a different scale (i.e. don’t reroll every 15 minutes). Take temporary leagues for instance.
 
act 1 normal is what, 20 minutes playtime?
 
I think it took me more than that
 
8:12 PM
eh you get better eventually
 
I have 20 hours logged total
 
20 hours in act 1? that's witcher 3 level
 
it’s not that I want to force you into a particular playstile, it’s more like the other playstyles are more time-consuming imo
 
Nah, I tried 2 characters
Second one is act 3 I think
First one I don't remember how long I played
 
@AlexM. sadly a big limitation of PoE atm is that you have all the new game+ nonsense to 'pad' the landscape, acts on their own are a bit too short
act 3 and act 4 show that they’re getting better at this though
 
8:16 PM
paket sample in case anyone is interested. @sehe
 
@JohanLarsson I love things that don't tell me what they do in the readme
 
but I even wrote a readme
It is just a minimal sample for how to create nuget packages using paket
 
witcher movie on the way /cc @Borgleader @MiniBartek polygon.com/2015/11/5/9676266/…
 
@AlexM. plz dont suck. plz dont suck. plz dont suck. plz dont suck. plz dont suck. plz dont suck. plz dont suck. plz dont suck. plz dont suck. plz dont suck.
 
@CatPlusPlus lolwut
@AlexM. true
 
8:21 PM
@Borgleader will suck anyway
 
@BartekBanachewicz It is really tedious and boring gameplay
"Oh great another pack of enemies here comes 10 respawns"
I don't even remember what the story was about
And I don't really care
 
@AlexM. Oh, it is gonna suck.
 
Beer was awesome.
 
looking back at the past witcher movies
it might be true
 
user406009
> I would have voted for Lalaland's proposal, but he is an ass.
 
8:29 PM
a donkey
 
user406009
I guess I need to work on my social skills.
 
user406009
That's from a class where everyone submits proposals and then the class votes on which one for everyone to implement.
 
I recommend working on your face
 
@EtiennedeMartel How many movies based on video games haven't sucked?
 
Prince of Persia sucked less than I expected it to.
 
8:43 PM
@JerryCoffin I'm hoping that the upcoming Warcraft will increase that to the dizzying heights of "one".
 
"Hardcore" is out
Awesome
 
@EtiennedeMartel I guess we'll have to see how that turns out.
 
@JerryCoffin it's not based on video games
it's based on the books
CD Projekt was not confirmed to take part in it
and the books' author does not consider the games canon
 
Because they are very, very not canon at all
 
I ought to canon your face
 
8:55 PM
@AlexM. That might help a little, anyway.
 
I am surprised each time I find a reference to the events in the books when playing Wiedźmin games
 
@набиячлэвэлиь that's from March
I've been using the development branch and it looks like its already been merged
 
Now if they only made Mumble a good software
 
@nick I downloaded Mumble stable and it was not
 
ew
 
8:58 PM
# If the system lacks a compiler, then just pick glibc.
# We could probably try harder.
 
That makes sense
 
actually I couldn’t possibly try any harder
 
fart
I think I'll stop buying games that have season passes
> Rust Adds Item Store For Modders To Sell Cosmetics
Finest quality horse armour
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus our box version has a "season pass" :|
 
9:09 PM
rip
 
how can a member object calls other member variable?
 
~~MAGIC~~
 
teach me
 
@milleniumbug ~~~MAGNETS~~~
 
~~MAGURL~~
 
9:16 PM
~~MAGNET LINKS~~
 
The Visual C++ Build Tools (standalone compiler, library etc) preview has arrived!
user image
8
 
It's a subset of what ships with VS, so whyever would you install it if you already have VS
 
to get the newer compiler and library without the buggy new visual studio :v (to be fair, the new webinstaller for VS2015 Update 1 RC allows that, though)
 
Don't install RCs
 
the RC is gonna turn into RTM eventually :^)
 
9:22 PM
Something happened
 
@melak47 I managed to install them after having deleted everything related to VS 14.0.
 
@Morwenn so now you have the worst MSVC experience possible, no IDE plus a crappy compiler :D
 
@melak47 The goal was just to check whether a project compiled with it or not. I didn't need a new IDE for that.
 
and did it?
 
Almost.
After fixing an attributes-related bug and deleting a couple of constexpr that were not really needed.
I got tuck at the linkage stage though. The project uses like 10 libraries and I am too lazy to link the appropriate libraries.
 
9:33 PM
linkage worst part to get tuck at
 
Least interesting part.
 
Linkage can be a nightmare indeed... Good night lounge (nightmare, night... that's what I call a good transition)
 
I need the binaries for SDL2, SDL2_image, SDL2_ttf, libogg, libvorbis, physfs, lua51 and probably a couple more. Of course I got lazy and gave up there.
 
I'm in one of those situations where the code is clearly complete horseshit but the IDE shows no errors.
 
@Rerito Swet dreams :p
 
9:37 PM
@Morwenn s/et/eaty/
 
user1804599
Use Java and linkage becomes easy.
 
@melak47 Interesting. Does CMake work with it?
 
@EvgenyPanasyuk dunno, I'm not uninstalling VS to find out :)
 
user1804599
@Mr.kbok IRC
 
user1804599
@Mr.kbok are you mrkbok
 
9:43 PM
@Elyse yes, that's how you check it, not the other way around, silly.
 
user1804599
ok
 
Nice keyboard:
1995
 
now comes with complimentary spyware
 
1 message moved to bin
please no oneboxed gifs
 
rules be rules
 
9:58 PM
always wtf when hitting space to pause a video results in page down
 

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