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10:00 PM
@Hoxieboy plink back
 
hmm
I just spent way too long Painting a handle on to James Gosling's face and adding the text "What an ugly mug"
 
@AlfPSteinbach I've always just downloaded the universal .zip and set PATH variables manually. Then, I build Git clones of DMD, DRuntime and Phobos.
 
@Maxpm uh, from where?
 
@DeadMG Is this how you imagined you've been spending your life?
 
lol
it amused me well enough for a couple of minutes
 
10:01 PM
@AlfPSteinbach First link on d-programming-language.org/download.html.
Version 2.057, apparently.
 
wait a minute
 
can one compile that with visual c++?
 
if I just emptied my Recycle Bin, how come it's still taking up 50GB?
 
@AlfPSteinbach There are binaries in the .zip. The Git repositories have makefiles for Windows, so I assume they're buildable with a Windows make implementation.
 
Ell
can someone explain this?
 
10:06 PM
@Maxpm yes, the downloader/installer seems to have installed binaries for all systems. also a start menu link to documentation index.html, which was incorrect. ok i found the file but really, they need to work on that installation thing (ETC.)
 
@AlfPSteinbach I try to stay away from installers when I can.
 
@Ell It's a joke about how the English settlers in the US rolled all over the native Indians
 
Ell
@DeadMG ohh Cherokee is native indian?
 
a simple program does not need an installer. a software package with a hierarchy of files and registry items does need an installer. i don't want to waste time on reproducing "the" correct structure, the installer should do htat
 
10:09 PM
yes
 
@Ell The US has no national language, and some people want to make it English. The argument presented in the comic is that English is the "language of the land," so foreigners should have to speak it. The punchline is that no Americans have learned to speak Cherokee, a Native American language.
 
Ell
ahh kk - I knew it was something like that, I had no clue what cherokee was o.O
 
@Maxpm Well, English is effectively the language of the US
 
@DeadMG Effectively, yes.
 
@DeadMG The it's the de facto main language. But the US have no official language.
 
10:11 PM
which is silly, because it's by miles the dominant language
 
Ell
is spanish the most spoken after chinese?
 
I don't think it's that important for a language to be official or not..
 
*in the US
time to have a play with AMP
 
sbi
The Cherokee ( ) are a Native American people historically settled in the Southeastern United States (principally Georgia, the Carolinas and East Tennessee). Linguistically, they are part of the Iroquoian language family. In the 19th century, historians and ethnographers recorded their oral tradition that told of the tribe having migrated south in ancient times from the Great Lakes region, where other Iroquoian-speaking peoples were located. They began to have contact with European traders in the 18th century. In the 19th century, white settlers in the United States called the Che...
 
Cherry coke!
 
10:14 PM
It's also a car.
 
Bugzilla is fuuuuuuugly.
 
I come back and I see "Bugzilla is fuuuuuuugly."
lol.
 
It is!
 
^I'm 25% cherokee
@Maxpm i know ;)
 
Ell
lol
 
10:22 PM
rofl I feel that way sometimes
@Beginnernato Hi
 
@Hoxieboy hi
 
Ell
 
I held a bee on my index finger just now
 
Ell
oh how I love xkcd
 
@Hoxieboy wtf? @Ell rofl
 
Ell
10:25 PM
@Hoxieboy cool. how did you manage that?
 
@Hoxieboy Talk to @R.Martinho he apparently grew up with bees
 
He was sitting on the bench I'm sitting on outside, and I scooped him up O.o
 
Ell
haha
you're outside? o.O
 
@sehe my family are planning to get 3 bee houses :D
@Ell yup
 
Aug 31 '11 at 15:23, by R. Martinho Fernandes
When I was a kid, my father had a couple of bee hives.
 
10:27 PM
@sehe You keeping logs of everything we say? XD
 
hi !
 
@Hoxieboy Nope. You are
 
@Oddant Hello
 
is there some good helpers ? : )
 
@sehe I cant imagine how
 
10:27 PM
@Oddant never :)
 
That could be useful
 
@Hoxieboy In the court of law :)
 
who's using MVC++ express amongst you ?
 
@Oddant Sometimes
 
LOL! "YOU said THIS at THIS very time on SO chat. HA."
 
10:29 PM
holy shit nibbles
 
I use dev C++
 
Concurrency::array<T, N> has 89 constructors
 
@Hoxieboy dump it ?
 
great ! maybe you could help me with that
I try to save a current project's properties
so I can use them whenever I create a solution that needs the same configuration
 
@DeadMG No f way!
 
Ell
10:30 PM
 
@sehe why? I think its great for what I'm doing right now
 
@DeadMG It must be because MS doesn't know how to do variadics.
@Hoxieboy Ok. I believe you.
 
@sehe What do you suggest?
 
there are no T... constructors
 
vim and clang, definiately.
 
10:32 PM
@Hoxieboy mingw or MSVC++. Using Code::Blocks or VSExpress
 
@daknøk For a newbie?
I do have code blocks actually, but whenever I use it, it tends to corrupt things :s
 
@daknøk Oh, I don't even know why I'm recommending Windowsy shit! Of course, I'm all over gcc + vim myself
 
that or it breaks itself
 
@daknøk clang is pretty good, but too low on C++11 features for me
 
DevC++ blows in every possible way, by the way
 
10:33 PM
@sehe did you check my question , how could I save a project's configuration ?
 
You can try Netbeans or Code::Blocks.
Or Xcode.
 
@DeadMG Except for speed, I would say. I guess I'll stick with code blocks
 
I'd rather use a compiler that's actually C++
Dev-C++, you'd be lucky to be even post-Standard
let alone C++11
 
Navi-coder is a nifty IDE, though thats for java, its coded in C++
 
@Oddant well, the lowtech answer is: create an empty project, and just compy from there. There might be issues with non-unique GUIDs (but that's where I breakout my gvim.exe).
 
10:35 PM
lol who'd a guess'd it?
 
ok
AMP, you are quite annoying shit
 
Ell
I'm sorry I keep posting these, but this one is so true
 
@Oddant otherwise, I'm sure there are MSDN articles on how to configure your own templates. I'm pretty sure it is about the same (but you get the 'magic' for free)
 
It is genius.
 
@Ell You should be. Come on man, one is funny, and several in a row is not at all funny.
 
10:36 PM
OMG but I love lemons. Lies.
 
Ell
@DeadMG I find them all hilarious!
 
posting every single one that you find funny in here is not at all hilarious, though
 
@Oddant I'm not absolutely convinced MS didn't try to cripple that feature for the Express edition.
 
@DeadMG @Ell He's just a downer
 
@DeadMG +1
 
10:37 PM
@sehe is too :)
 
Ell
yaaaay
 
a downer who can and will start removing your messages :)
 
@Hoxieboy no. we haven't got 3 miles of vertical screen space, and we have seen all these
 
Ell
c'mon guys stop bullying me now :(
 
The Love for Three Oranges, Op. 33, also known by its French language title L'amour des trois oranges (, Lyubov' k tryom apel'sinam), is a 1919 satirical opera by Sergei Prokofiev. It was premiered in Chicago on 30 September 1921, using a French libretto, translated from the original Russian libretto based on the Italian play L'amore delle tre melarance by Carlo Gozzi. Composition history The opera was the result of a commission during Prokofiev's successful first visit to the USA in 1918. After successful concerts in Chicago (including his First Symphony), he was approached by the dire...
 
10:38 PM
@sehe You can't really speak for all of us, just most of "us"
 
"Keep it to yourself" is a mile away from bullying
 
Ell
@DeadMG I was joking :)
 
@Hoxieboy Which is effectively identical.
 
@Hoxieboy I never said I did. Neither can you, for the record.
 
@DeadMG < Argumentatative
 
10:39 PM
@Hoxieboy I feel a clash coming up. I think I have things to do
 
@sehe Why does it always involve me, C++, and random-ass topics that start "clashes". FUUUUUUUUUU
 
@Hoxieboy Please stop labelling people negative things (a downer, argumentative). Degrading others does not raise you. Not even when 'meant as a joke'.
 
@Hoxieboy Not really. Put simply, I can and will start removing messages, and you'd have quite some difficulty convincing the other regulars to take this power away from me when it's used against picture spam.
no argument you can make that changes that fact
 
@DeadMG Op I'm "labeling" again, now we are moderating?
 
I can if I choose to
 
10:42 PM
@DeadMG Never said you couldn't
 
so what, exactly, was the question that you just raised?
 
@sehe thanks for your argues, i'll go for template definitions, i don't see any other way for now
 
I havent ever raised a question
 
@hoxieboy windows or nix?
 
nix first, now I have windows :P not my choice in the matter
linux, a variant of *nix types, so I guess you could label it that ;)
 
10:43 PM
for windows, best you have on new PC is Visual C++ (Express edition is free)
you can also use recent version of MinGW g++
Code::Blocks is about the best (or least worse) WIndows IDE that works well with g++
 
@AlfPSteinbach here is the sad part, its an acer aspire 3000 with a sis integrated graphics card, this thing runs slower than molasses on a cold day, and barely supports 2d
 
for local documentation you would best install the Visual C++ 11 preview
and not use it for anything else... ;-)
how much RAM?
 
lemme see
446 mb
:(
 
oh dang
ok you're stuck with Code::Blocks
 
Small, and proud XD
 
10:46 PM
replace the g++ compiler, the default one is far too old
 
@Hoxieboy Woot. Switch NOW to linux, with g++
 
as i recall the default g++ compiler with code::blocks is 3.4.1, you need like 4.6.1
 
Thats the reason why I stuck with dev C++, so I could actually USE the program X3
 
I have actually nice working boxes running at 192Mb and it compiles shit quick enough
 
@sehe I am definitely thinking about it
 
10:47 PM
@Hoxieboy That's taking too long then :)
 
@sehe 15 years old can't really find a job quick enough, thats why its taking so long :s
 
In all honesty, I have upgraded the memory on some boxes, but only because it was a free upgrade at the VPS provider
 
I could possibly hax up some usb ram, but really, why not just get a new laptop for christ's sake
 
damnit
why is AMP so gimped?
no jagged arrays, no recursion :(
 
@Hoxieboy Half joking, I meant the 'thinking part'. wget http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/6.0.4/i386/iso-cd/debian-6.0.4-i386-netinst.iso && cdrecord -sao -eject *.iso doesn't take long. Not even when you have to click your way through a dozen IE dialogs
 
10:50 PM
@sehe I have a windows version of wget :D but I also use python as a command line file grabber
I miss linux apt-get install blah blah
 
@Hoxieboy Ah see, no worries about the culture shock then.
 
:(
I actually still know a teensy bit of bash, but those days are long gone
Wait, linux is free right?
 
only if your time is worthless :P
 
gads bring that up one more time
D:
 
@DeadMG that joke is getting older and older
 
10:52 PM
still true
 
When is the last time you rebooted your Windows machine?
[~/ellcc/test/obj] main% uptime
16:52:31 up 127 days, 20:43, 24 users, load average: 0.61, 0.27, 0.18
 
debian... I tried so hard to download debian updates for my linux box but it never would, so I system restored it and presto, there went all my free memory (on my old computer)
 
@Hoxieboy Install cygwin, I have apt-cyg install <package> on my Windows media server. Sweet potatoes
User@IXL ~
$ apt-cyg install -u python-paramiko
Working directory is /setup
Mirror is mirror.mcs.anl.gov/pub/cygwin
Package python-paramiko is already installed, skipping
 
I do have cygwin :D I was actually thinking of having dual operating systems, until i looked at the specs, and all of my hopes and dreams were crushed :I
 
@RichardPennington mmm kernel updates, anyone? security patches are a Good Thing(TM)
@DeadMG only for selected subpopulation
 
10:56 PM
@sehe what os are you running as we text-speak?
 
@Hoxieboy Ubuntu. It will be my last iteration. I'm already dualbooting Linux Mint and plain Debian with XFCE because Ubuntu is going the wrong way for me
 
Ell
@sehe linux mint is nice
 
Ubuntu (bless your soul) its a good thing that it went the wrong way for you ;)
 
@Ell It seems to be what Ubuntu was
@Hoxieboy Good for me or for Ubuntu?
 
Ell
@sehe yeah, sort of a backup for those who dont like the new ubuntu
 
10:58 PM
@Ell Canonical do a fine job of chasing their beta testers to another distribution, if you ask me
 
@sehe good for you, ubuntu wasn't rated all that great by a lot of people, and I saw some of the comments at certain websites... They let me know why
 
Ell
I like both ubuntu and linux mint
 
From my background, I personally would go with linux mint, mainly because of the linux part of it :D
 
Ell
I prefer linux over windows for development by far, and prefer linux in general. But I need windows for my siblings and for gaming. If only linux could game!
 
I eventually want to run a custom Gobo Linux built from LFS.
 
Ell
11:00 PM
Ubuntu is linux though o.O
 
Well, I'm aware of the gotchas, thing is I loved my ubuntu desktop, booting in 7 seconds, and being able to JustWork apt-get install postfix-dovecot and stuff like that. I'm unaware of the same level of availability on Debian.
 
Because the packages from their installer are so out-of-date, they can't be updated.
 
ubuntu got rid of the parts of linux I liked :(
 
Ell
@Hoxieboy like what?
 
@Hoxieboy Partly resonates with me
 
11:01 PM
@sehe Last time I checked debian kinda died out :( so yeah I would agree with you there
 
@Ell A desktop experience for power users with keyboard support
 
The only things I liked about Ubuntu were that wifi worked out of the box and it properly detected my screen resolution.
 
Ell
@sehe what is a power user?
 
Ubuntu is like linux with a sprinkling of windows
 
Ell
@Hoxieboy hmm I disagree. More like a sprinkling of mac
 
11:02 PM
@Hoxieboy That is not going to hold up. Debian underpins both Linux Mint and Ubuntu. Those two have major market share
 
A power user is a user of a personal computer who has the ability to use advanced features of programs which are beyond the abilities of "normal" users, but is not necessarily capable of programming and system administration. In enterprise software systems such as Oracle or SAP, this title may go to an individual who is not a programmer, but who is a specialist in a transaction or a business process. The "Super User" in enterprise programs (SAP, Oracle) often refers to an individual who is an expert in a module or process within the enterprise system. Other uses Power user can also be a...
 
@Ell It's you and me, basically. The 'we need to get things done efficiently crowd'
 
@sehe thank god, though it has been a while, so maybe they got things sorted out :)
 
Not the 'let me access facebook and gmail' crowd
 
Ell
@sehe ahh kk
yeah
 
11:03 PM
when in doubt, wikipedia(tm)
^that didnt work out very well :/
 
Ell
:L
 
rofl
 
™ <--- copy paste bait
 
@sehe pshaw show off
 
Ell
One thing I like about windows is the gui
it seems very space efficient to me
 
11:05 PM
also it doesnt help that my keyboard has no number pad
 
Ell
I've never tried KDE but to me, gnome feels too big
 
@Hoxieboy ^KTM in vim :)
@Ell Wow. Never heard that before
@Hoxieboy Have no use for a number pad. Are you an accountant or a scientist?
 
Ell
haha
 
@Hoxieboy ™
 
@sehe its kinda hard to type alt codes without one ;)
 
11:06 PM
@Hoxieboy I see.
@DeadMG late to the party :)
 
If I have a std::map and I want to use a template to make the value generic, which is the proper syntax?
template<std::string id, class resource> std::map<std::string, resource> myMap;
or
template<class resource> std::map<std::string, resource> myMap;
 
@sehe @deadmg plink, plinkplink, plink
 
I don't understand how people can decently use a computer (i.e. getting things done quickly and well) without a command line.
 
@daknøk There is truth in such wise words
 
@NobodyNothing post on SO with some more context? variable declarations cannot be templated
 
11:07 PM
easily
 
Ell
@daknøk you need to know a command line, but not really a gui. Maybe you are faster after you ahve learnt the cl but the time it takes doing that could be spent doing things with a gui
 
@daknøk They can't. But they make do.
 
It is frustratingly slow to watch a GUI user explain a programming problem.
 
I actually have a command prompt hot key, ctrl+alt+T for terminal
much like the linux short cut
 
@RichardPennington Indeed.
 
11:08 PM
I have cmd+space, T, return :P
 
Ell
I dont use the command line on windows.
 
In fact, its so ironic, I ctrl+alt+T, and type notepad somefile.txt rather than press 10 buttons
 
@Hoxieboy I have cygwin bash running in GNU screen in mintty, so I can multiplex my shell sessions. I scare the hell out my collegues. But whenever there is a job to be done, they come to me :)
 
@sehe Hoxieboy is jealous of your epic nerd skillz :D
 
@Hoxieboy Win+R notepad works too.
 
11:10 PM
true
 
@Hoxieboy Skills? Install programs and use them :_
 
@sehe 446 mb, PLEASE
though that is ram
i still miss shell on linux :(
 
On my work PC just opening the start menu will take over 30s the first time. The rest of the time McAfee is noodling away to make my workday unpleasant. I need no friggin UI elements that never render in time. Just give me damn commands and shortcuts.
 
What about Cygwin?
 
@sehe lol reminds me of a codebrain
 
Ell
11:12 PM
on the whole I'm very happy with linux. It does everything a windows box does. Apart from game. Unless you only play minecraft - then it does everything
 
@Hoxieboy what's that
 
I said nothing :P
 
@Ell I don't do games. Self preservation.
Stack overflow is gaming too, in a way
 
Ell
haha - I spend far too much time here...
 
here:
 
Ell
11:13 PM
in fact
too much for one night. Im off. cya :)
 
 
fuu wrong link
 
Hah fixing it you are, padawan
 
"A condition caused by excessive hours spent writing computer code, characterized by the inability to think of anything else than lines of code."
no there were two links lol
However, I SHOULD fix it and place in the page: Codebrain = sehe XD
 
I had found it bout the way. I don't recognize it. It is just a preference for absolute addressing, which requires least effort (no eye-hand coordination and little movement of typing position)
 
11:17 PM
here is the whole page, lol not much but still, its something to consider
LOL! way to go! And as I'm scrolling through the page, what do you know:
 
@sbi Sure, why not? I don't plan on leaving London before then ;-)
actually, that's a lie.. I'm not even in London now. But I will be in about 9 hours, if i don't want to risk being fired.
 
@sehe is it wrong to have a command line browser?
 
@Hoxieboy wrong? no. Effective? Hell no. I sometimes use links, links2, elinks, lynx or w3m when working remotely for a quick google. But that's about it
 
@sehe Haha I thought the same thing, try going to youtube using it XD
and, I do use lynx
 
@Hoxieboy mplayer with libcaca is alright, you know :) Just set your font real tiny and don't even think about using a windows console window: toooo dog slow
 
11:29 PM
@sehe lol, squirreling away free time as a sys-admin?
 
@Hoxieboy If lynx or links supported html5 video.. I'd be impressed
 
@je4d in the world of interwebz, anything is possible
 
@Hoxieboy Yeah.. I would be impressed, but I might not be surprised
 
@je4d I think it is elinks that has the framebuffer mode. It doesn't use X but is fully graphical; not too sure about javascript support.
 
@sehe cool.. never tried that one (apt-get installs)
 
11:30 PM
@sehe nothing like watching a replay of football in text graphics :D
I'm thinking of writing a spider in either python, or C++ (if I get far enough anyways :s) that lets you enter a search term, and it attempts to grab a definition, of course this is for pure "fun" only
C++ is capable of something like that I'm assuming right?
We are having one of those quiet moments again
 
@Hoxieboy C++ is capable of anything if you're willing to put in enough effort
 
@je4d masochistic C++ programmers!
 
@Hoxieboy but as much as I like C++, I'd use python for that, at least to start with
 
@je4d +1 from me
 
I'll prepare my cruicifiction now.
 
11:40 PM
I would quite literally have to agree with that, I still do not know enough C++ to move files around :s
 
@je4d oh proactive too. I'd just await it. You even help prepare it. Woot
 
@sehe I consider being proactive a good trait for a programmer in any language :P
 
@sehe Is one of those onlookers who claims he didn't see anything when the authorities arrive asking who did it :)
 
@Hoxieboy huh. there is another case of a half-joke really doesn't come across on the other end. I don't know where that comes from, but it sounds like a negative thing to say, mate.
 
@sehe I thought by now you would know my quirks, I say things like that all the time, but I do know a great many references to certain "memes"
in other words, no harm meant
 
11:44 PM
@Hoxieboy Yeah, I'm quite good at contributing white noise myself, but keep in mind that it is only a chat, and people will have an even harder time following that type of jokes than in real life.
 
@sehe also the ":)" at the end of it is supposed to mean it was a possitive joke
@sehe hence the emotes
 
Last time you cracked one like that, some people found that you didn't respect a point being made about posting pictures, remember? That caused quite a bit of pain, in my opinion
 
Perhaps its just a localized thing? Here in idaho it seems people do that thing hourly, and yes, last time I "cracked" something like that, it hurt, but it only hurt me. If it hurt others then well, tough, its life
(Also the internet)
 
With the growing years, I have found the backspace key to be a particular helpful key in communications. Whenever there is a risk of something not working to the point of backfiring I opt for self deletion. Even if I spent 5 minutes googling/writing things up.
2
I do make exceptions. For you obviously :)
(^^ see the selfreferential joke)
@Hoxieboy "but it only hurt me" - you really missed a big part of that incident, then. Did you notice DeadMG doesn't usually call rank that adamantly? He felt you were provoking him. I'm sure that didn't sit well with him either.
 
(As I sit here thinking about what else to say) why stack overflow, why do you have a time limit on message edits D:
 
11:51 PM
@Hoxieboy It is a balancing act. For a proper chat experience, messages should not be editable at all. However, due to typos, the quality would go down, and there would be no means to fix it. It would mean people clarifying their clarifications and not bothering with trying to make sense.
 
@sehe It was about calling one member out on the chat for posting a few harmless things, you missed the point that I was simply defending that person for my own reasons. It wasn't technically my fault that he thought me defending that person was "wrong"
I've had experiences with bad chatroom admins, hence why I brought it up without ever thinking of it
 
user868935
Got it work @sehe
 
@Hoxieboy Two things. 1. That person might not have needed any defending. It was quite a mild remark, and clear enough. 2. Your 'defense' looked more like an attack. That is a wholly different thing
 
@sehe The more we argue about eachothers view points, the worse it gets. Shouldn't we drop it and leave it for the search history?
I feel cold and dead inside arguing about small things
 
@Hoxieboy Hmmm. Your expectations create your experience
 
11:55 PM
@sehe plink?
 
@Hoxieboy Sry about that. I'll be happy to drop it, although I don't feel your sentiment. I thought it was rather nice we found a moment to talk that over, in absense of heated emotions :) But that's just me
@チョコレート人 Is that you, Paul?
 
user868935
@sehe yup. I had to move the function and prototype to into the main file. Then the code worked
 
user868935
@sehe I mean just the prototype
 
Alright, I think I shall write my python spider, and see how it works out :D
 
11:59 PM
@チョコレート人 Great. thanks for the feedback. I hope you got something from it. I realize I may have steeped you in a little bit of 'modern' (advanced?) C++ style there, considering the more basic questions you ran into. I usually try to keep it a bit simpler in those cases, but hey, you'll learn anyway :)
@Hoxieboy Ok, and it is way past bedtime again for me, so cheers and...
 

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