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12:01 PM
The idea that types are objects is something have never heard before (at least in C++ context). Dionne is cool.
I'll allow him to use Coliru.
 
Just installing Alien Isolation, even though I know I'll be too damn afraid to play it beyond 30 minutes.
 
I've had that on my hard drive for ages.
Installed it and became homeless soon after.
 
Oh, apparently I missed the announcement that Hana has been accepted into boost.
 
@ElimGarak I've watched some youtube play throughs of that - that was bad enough for fright factor :p
 
@StackedCrooked What is Hana?
 
Sneaking around from a giant monster makes me queasy, but I really like sci-fi... And that puts me in a weird spot. :/
 
@Borgleader It's a library that combines the functionality of mpl and fusion. Using C++14 features.
 
user1804599
I wish I were happy.
 
Interpret UML diagrams? For a moment there I thought you talked about executable UML, the biggest pipe-dream of OOD :)
 
@StackedCrooked My template foo is too low, I dont get half of this T_T
 
12:18 PM
@Columbo Watching the whole thing.
 
@fredoverflow Worryingly my first thought seeing "OOD" was Dr Who... I soooo need a life
 
@Borgleader types are objects dude
 
it's all about the objects
 
user1804599
:(
 
12:19 PM
@Borgleader Actually I don't understand it either, but I think it looks cool.
 
@elyse Maybe you're suffering from programming language design burnout?
@JonClements Can you keep a secret? I have never watched Dr. Who, not even a single episode.
 
@fredoverflow I saw two.
 
user1804599
Just really bored and don't know what to do these two days.
 
Watch anime.
 
@fredoverflow okay... I won't tell anyone if you don't? :p
 
user1804599
12:21 PM
no
 
oh :(
 
@elyse Haven't we been over this already? You should play Monkey Island 2. It has great tips on how to spend your spare time at the end of the credits.
 
user1804599
no
 
You should fight boredom by saying no.
 
user1804599
no
 
12:24 PM
@fredoverflow I've watched half of one episode and decided I didn't like it.
 
@fredoverflow I have never watched it either, don't think I have ever watched a full episode of Star Trek either.
 
Ell
rum bu bu bu bum ba ba ba bum bu bu bu bum oooooooooh iiiiiioooooooooooooh
iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiuuuuuuuuooooooooooooooooooooooooh
 
depends
 
@JohanLarsson Which Star Trek?
 
@Ell u drunk mate?
 
user1804599
12:30 PM
People who use leaf blowers must die.
 
user1804599
I should kill them.
 
> thou shalt not kill
 
Ell
@Borgleader I'm singing the doctor who theme tune
 
@Ell it was a fantastic rendition applauds
 
Ell
12:34 PM
<3
@StackedCrooked Hmm cool
 
@StackedCrooked WTFFF
 
Yeah. C++ or GTFO
 
^ this
 
I have a beautiful thing that wants to come out of a small mess.
 
@JohanLarsson Eeuw.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes.
 
12:49 PM
@JohanLarsson Are we talking about childbirth?
 
@elyse Implement more COBOL
@JohanLarsson cockroaches
 
On those metaprogramming slides there's this thing: 'struct to_string {
template <typename T>
std::string operator()(T t) const {
std::stringstream ss;
ss << t;
return ss.str();
}
};
std::string three = to_string{}(3);
std::string pi = to_string{}(3.14159);' why is this a struct instead of just a function?
 
sings s...s...sexy curry...
 
Ell
1:05 PM
template<class T>
std::string to_string(T t) {
    std::stringstream ss;
    ss << t;
    return ss.str();
}
yeah this would be better
 
user1804599
T const&
 
user1804599
template<class T>
std::string to_string(T const& t) {
    return boost::lexical_cast<std::string>(t);
}
 
@user673679 So that it can be passed to other functions/algorithms expecting a callable object.
@elyse Would not necessarily help matters.
 
user1804599
It's needed.
 
user1804599
1:08 PM
There's no reason to restrict to_string to copyable types.
 
@user673679 To make it a functor.
 
user1804599
Questions on Stack Overflow must be in English. — elyse 6 secs ago
 
In some cases you can only use a functor for certain things.
Like passing the functor to order an std::set.
 
user1804599
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ Function pointers work just fine.
 
user1804599
std::set<T, decltype(&f)> set(&f);
 
1:12 PM
yeah but you have to manually resolve the overload in that case.
 
static_cast<ostringstream>(std::ostringstream() << val).str()
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ hmm. that's interesting, thanks.
 
:)
Sweet and sour onions are awesome
 
@Ell This exact function has been written by many programmers :D
But you should take by const ref though.
 
yeah, taking by value doesn't make any sense there
 
Ell
1:26 PM
Zulip chat looks exactly like what we need to replace Stack Overflow chat
 
people still on about needing to replace the chat?
 
not really feeling any need to replace the chat
 
Ell
mate yeh obvies
 
wat.
 
@Ell Does it have reply-to-message?
 
Ell
1:32 PM
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ yes
and starred messages
and transcript
and file uploads
and @pings
 
oneboxing?
 
Ell
and message editing
It has oneboxing yes
and mobile app
 
no example chat? boo
 
Ell
and syntax highlighting
and private chats
 
SO oneboxing? :P
 
1:34 PM
> The installation process should be executed as the root user.
wat
 
@Puppy until SO decides to remove the chat
 
I feel sick for eating too many onions
 
when that occurs maybe I'll want to replace it
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ you snack on onions?
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ You ate too many onions? How did that happen?
I like onions though.
But preferably in combination with other stuff.
 
1:36 PM
@StackedCrooked You mean "ate"?
@melak47 They are awesome
 
should've used jefffrey.at(onion), that has bounds checking
 
@StackedCrooked What about in combination with sweet & sour sauce?
 
Not bad.
 
I think I'm gonna throw up actually
 
Ell
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ mmmm
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ why wouldn't it?
@melak47 idk :P
it's open source though so
I'm sure one could implement SO oneboxing
 
1:39 PM
@Ell Chat software that requires the user to input sudo -i into a terminal to install it?
 
Ell
> installation process
I don't see the issue
You need to be root to install it because it writes to various locations which normal users can't write to
(assuming typical permissions)
 
That would usually require the user to input the password during the installation.
 
why does it write to those locations?
 
Not to type sudo -i into a terminal window
 
what's the difference?
surely if you type in your password then the app can take your permissions at any time
 
user1804599
1:44 PM
map f = foldr (\x xs -> f x : xs) []
 
user1804599
excellent
 
You don't need root access to deploy the server, it's just their automated crap that assumes global instance
You'll probably be using root anyway
 
user1804599
filter f = foldr (\x xs -> if f x then x : xs else xs) [] :D
 
user1804599
rightfold is awesome
 
if you've rightfolded it does that mean it can't accept infinite lists?
 
user1804599
1:47 PM
no
 
Ell
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ you an install things with a terminal window
I don't understand man
 
user1804599
foldr works with infinite lists just fine.
 
Ell
what is the difference between typing password into windows UAC and typing password into sudo terminal windo?
 
You are not going to be installing the server on your fucking desktop
 
I always turn off UAC
 
1:47 PM
Ugh not this again
 
UAC doesn't ask for your password
 
It does if your account is limited
 
oh.
 
You They See.
 
@Ell You don't understand why presenting the user with a password dialog box is better than asking the user to type sudo -i into a terminal, when the audience of your software is not necessarily composed of programmers or sys admins?
 
Ell
1:49 PM
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ the audience of the software is composed of programmers or sysadmins
why would an everyday user be installing the server?
oh wait. were you talking about client?
 
The client is a webpage
There's no desktop Linux client
He's just bad at reading
 
There's desktop software
 
Ell
there is a mac .dmg desktop client
and a windows .exe
and no linux desktop client
there is also an android and os x app
there is no terminal involved in any of these
 
Building the client from sources does not require root any more than building anything else from source
 
1:50 PM
Woops, I'm bad at reading then
 
Man, Alien Isolation is really kinda pretty. But those background noises make me twitch. :(
 
@ElimGarak If I had to look at alien's I'd rather look at Asari, but hey, to each their own ;)
 
@ElimGarak the dynamic GI is pretty nice. Does your engine have that? :)
 
@Borgleader Wellp, Mass Effect Andromeda is pretty far off :D
 
Ell
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ it's okay bbygurl, i forgive
 
1:52 PM
The server code is a mess
 
@melak47 Ah, but it is only diffuse GI + sBRDF preconvolved environment probes at discrete points. :D
 
I smell Django
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ Yeah, he doesn't bathe often =/
 
user1804599
Must be a terrible experience.
 
Nah, can't play it. Makes me nervous. Also, VR Alien Isolation? Are people insane?
 
2:02 PM
lol
 
Of course they knew, people usually know when they ship crap
 
@ElimGarak What's the problem?
 
Also, Fallout 4 size on disk will be 28.12 GB.
 
surprisingly low
 
@Puppy Because they were praising their progression system on release. :D
Yeah, pretty low.
 
2:04 PM
@ElimGarak And?
 
probably skimping on those texture sizes again :p
 
Main character 256x256, NPCs 128x128
@Puppy I am not biting :P
 
> How about you guys go fuck yourselves?
seems like you already did
 
I seriously don't see what the issue is. Releasing software with known flaws happens all the time.
 
2:06 PM
AAA release with flaws? Well I never
 
Gamespot comment tries to be all technical and shit: algorythm
> I don't even bother looking at the articles, I just come here to talk shit about the garbage video game that is sucking for air.
^ I support this man.
 
lol I got my first email from LunarG about Vulkan. It's titled "Vulkan Update From LunarG" and yet all the information contained in the email I knew before signing up to this "newsletter" a few months ago
 
Vulkan is pretty much under a strict NDA. Some aspects of DX12 still are, too. Basically, when you get a real update, you'll get the drivers and all the stuffs you need. :D
 
user406009
reddit.com/r/vulkan has the best collection of released Vulkan news AFAIK
 
@Lalaland ASAIK?
 
user406009
2:12 PM
As Far As I Know*
 
Anal Secks As I Know
 
@ElimGarak I know, but that email is so devoid of anything useful and/or new it could have been an automated reply to when i signed up
anyway
 
user406009
@Borgleader You can also read the mantle API, as that is supposedly going to be similar to Vulkan.
 
user406009
 
user406009
2:14 PM
It's a quite comprehensive document and somewhat interesting read.
 
> Alan is an effective engineering leader with an excellent reputation for creating environments where 3D Driver Developers flourish. He leads teams that tackle challenging technical issues and generates results that are grounded in an experienced industry perspective.
 
if all i can do is read the api, im not interested. I want to be able to do stuff. =/
 
> generates results that are grounded in an experienced industry perspective.
 
user406009
@Borgleader Well, that part is going to be quite a while away.
 
user406009
2:16 PM
Cause they have to release drivers as well.
 
@Borgleader Take up DX12, same goals and very similar ways of achieving them. It'll get you ready for Vulkan.
 
For anyone interested, I added a bounty to my question here: stackoverflow.com/questions/32735148/… It should be easy for someone familiar with iterators and intel tbb to solve this.
 
user406009
After reading the Mantle API I am no longer as excited about Vulkan.
 
user406009
Just endless manual memory management.
 
There's a lot more to it. But yes, the magic of new APIs is that you do more, not less. :P High-level APIs will still remain for those who don't care about that. :D
 
2:19 PM
@ElimGarak I'd have to install Windows 10 first, and for that I have to switch SSDs, and I'm lazy. besides I'm working with OpenGL atm, and Nvidia said they plan to make it so we can work with both OpenGL and Vulkan at the same time to easy transition. So I dont really have any incentive to go DX12 route.
 
user406009
I am afraid that memory management is about my least favorite thing in the world.
 
user406009
Right after shared-memory multithreading.
 
Well, there's system memory management, video memory management, scheduling transfers to be as efficient as possible, synchronizing the GPUs with the CPUs, synchronizing the CPUs, synchronizing the GPUs with other GPUs... With the CPUs. :P
And then you also have UMA-esque integrated Intel graphics where system memory is video memory (but no zero copy).
 
sounds like we need an abstraction layer
something like… openGL
 
@Cauterite youre trolling right =/
 
user406009
2:22 PM
That's what I meant by memory management. You have to constantly shuttle things around (according to the Mantle spec)
 
@Borgleader a little
 
good
 
but by the sounds of it, the API is so low-level that you're gonna need to abstract it in any case
 
user406009
@Cauterite Yep.
 
Yeah, but the driver can only do the safest thing which is very often the least optimal thing you can do. By handing you full control, you can decide when something happens and how. Benefits can be anything between 40-70% wrt. to DX11. The larger performance benefits occur when you utilize new parts of the feature set (and hardware) for advanced rendering which is non-trivial to do on older APIs.
 
user406009
2:23 PM
The "intended consumers" are game engines.
 
user406009
@ElimGarak Do you think they are going to do a WebVulkan as well?
 
Unlikely
 
Highly unlikely, JavaScript users can barely utilize WebGL.
 
Too unsafe for web
 
@StackedCrooked hey, cppreference has nothing against "why". Someone who knows just needs to write that (sorry for late reply, just back from cppcon)
 
2:25 PM
it could be the backend of the canvas API though, for sure
 
@Cubbi Ah, that's cool :)
Sorry, I didn't know that.
 
Browsers will eventually utilize new generation APIs to improve rendering. I know MS intends to do that with Edge. Maybe they should implement plugins first.
 
user406009
@CatPlusPlus That's what people claimed about OpenGL. Yet here we are.
 
@ElimGarak they need to do something to get an edge, that's for sure
 
@Lalaland Yes, with a stripped down version of OpenGL
 
2:27 PM
Yup, by the time they made Vulkan safe, they'd defeat the purpose. Also, JS users wouldn't know what to do with it. WebGL used nicely was mostly shader toys by rendering experts.
 
Maybe they'll be a new high-level web API that wraps Vulkan but it won't be that directly ever
Giving JS any direct access to memory makes a breeding ground for exploits
 
something that's more abstract than opengl, but still low-level enough for custom shaders and stuff, that's the kind of API i'd like to see
 
imo theres an inherent contradiction in wanting WebVulkan. Vulkan is all about managing memory yourself and whatnot. And doing that in JS inside a browser, well... For starters theres a browser and a shitty language between you and the OS's resources. idk how to explain it, it just seems contradictory to me
 
Not really, it's just plain unsafe
 
Anybody has a good example of WebGL being used in a context unrelated to shader toys and small tech demos? Maybe a gaem?
 
2:30 PM
its like, hey take all the abstractions away and give that to us in an highly abstracted environment, and im like really?
 
user406009
You can sorta manage memory in JS though. The feature is called typed arrays.
 
user406009
And it's completely safe and bounds checked.
 
user406009
And WebGL isn't that much different from OpenGL ES.
 
user406009
So they didn't have to limit it.
 
@ElimGarak this
not really; it's still just a demo/experiment
but it's pretty neat
 
2:32 PM
Vulkan and DX12 rely heavily on low level data management, due to alignment requirements of the GPU to use the memory efficiently. Allocating heaps and buffers, directly manipulating them. Without the descriptors, it's basically just fat data blobs. I wouldn't trust that to the web.
 
user406009
Elim's point is probably correct though. If you are sacrificing 2x performance just to use JavaScript, you probably don't care about Vulkan's theoretical gains.
 
Literally, the only way to properly deal with constant buffers is through GPUVA manipulation within a blob buffer. And describing the blob buffer freeform to the GPU. Granularity is 64 KiB at the minimum, 4096 KiB for MSAA assets. And the alignment requirement for constant buffers on DX is 256 bytes. Their sizes are usually quite small. But there are many of them, hundreds, thousands.
 
is directX 12 still a COM API?
 
> My ex wife sister was pleasant and had a great rack. I miss her so.
(random reddit commentS)
 
@Cauterite Of course.
 
Ell
2:36 PM
iirc if you write inconsistent vulkan & dx12 code you can crash video driver and cause kernel panic
a webpage being able to do that would suck
 
Yes, but the drivers were trained to do recovery on timeout, at least in the case of DX12 / Windows. But during development of DX12, knocking out your system did happen here and there.
 
wouldn't even take vulkan/dx12 to BSOD with some of the video drivers i've encountered
 
@Ell tbf, i did that with opengl =/
 
Ell
@Borgleader lol oh dear
@ElimGarak I'm not saying it's a bad thing
well obviously it is a bad thing
but it is the right choice of tradeoff
 
Basically, it's all your fault if it happens. That's the good part. No longer can you really blame the driver for being a preemptive dick. Because you were the preemptive dick.
 
2:39 PM
C++ AMP would crash my GPU drivers (ATI) on regular bases :-\
 
> Because love makes you feel human, and so does loss.
Oh boi
 
My problem was with Firefox though, it took them a while to figure out that they might lose the device in the middle of execution due to a driver failure recovery. I think they do it properly now.
 
do you happen to know how they react to a driver crash now? (i'm just curious) @ElimGarak
 
Just reacquire the device and prepare the rendering environment again. Many games also know how to recover, although, some crash outright. IHVs* and Microsoft have also been working for the end user to not notice the potential crash of the driver, but they haven't really informed us of the results.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ why are you reading stuff like this? :D
 
2:43 PM
My favorite games are those which require a restart when you change a postprocessing setting. You can taste the spaghetti code.
 
@ElimGarak how about changing texture res
 
how about the games that crash when you alt-tab
 
That prolly requires a system restart :D
 
@Cauterite oh gawd, or the ones that don't want to alt-tab
 
2:45 PM
or the ones that take 1 minute to alt tab back into
 
Although, Microsoft fixed that problem for them with Win10, there is no longer an exclusive fullscreen mode, only the windowed flip model is functional. No more blinking and shit. Direct composition with the desktop, just like any window, just renders over it from a direct gpu memory surface.
 
@ScarletAmaranth I'm subscribed to TIFU. It's usually a funny subreddit
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ ah, I thought you're like depressed and reading some romance/drama on the internet, nevermind!!!:)
 
Although, idiotic developers don't intercept the alt tab to minimize the window, so now full borderless game windows become the background, you only get the taskbar. So you have to create a separate desktop to utilize your computer properly. Or devs that enable the window borderless mode and then don't recognize that a resolution of 1280x720 doesn't mean that you center a borderless window of the resolution 1280x720, but render and filter/upscale to desktop res.
 
i used windows 10 once; it had an intel shell extension installed that was retained after upgrading from windows 7, and was broken in windows 10 so it caused explorer to reliably crash immediately when launched
 
Ell
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ meh
I find TIFU quite boring
its the same stuff over and over
 
Tampon In Fuck Out?
 
@Ell What subreddit don't you find boring? /r/funny?
 
Today I fucked Up
 
/r/prettyfemalecorpses
^ it's a real thing.
 
2:53 PM
it's about people making up stories to get karma
 
Anybody wants to play Rise of Nations online? I want to nuke someone.
 
user406009
@ElimGarak How about Age of Empires?
 
@Lalaland I actually have AoE III installed
Along with warchiefs and uhm asian dynasties
 
user3790646
That moment when, after an entire year, your ex gf says she loves you
 
Ell
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ /r/linux
 
2:57 PM
You are weird
 
Can you guys generate results that are grounded in an experienced industry perspective?
 
Alan Ward can. Alan is an effective engineering leader with an excellent reputation for creating environments where 3D Driver Developers flourish.
 
user3790646
What?
 
He leads teams that tackle challenging technical issues and generates results that are grounded in an experienced industry perspective.
 

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