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Ell
"all those people who tell you private is very important are the same people that tell you all sorts of terrible things are important, like RAII" - Jon Blow ladies and gentlemen
4
 
Xeo
@Ell who?
 
You know nothing Jon Blow
 
Ell
 
Why are you still watching this guy
 
4:05 PM
@Ell this guy is just getting better and better
or worse and worse? dunno
 
Boring
 
Ell
he doesn't seem to know const exists either I don't think
 
That's a constant problem with some people.
 
@Ell a new video
 
@Ell fairly sure he poos poos it one of his early vids
 
4:09 PM
I guess it's time to...
... get blown
YEEEEEAAAAAAH
 
._.
 
the colleague who started watching his videos stopped eventually
 
Oh jeez. They're talking about const char *. Time for a concern look.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit BEST HAT EVER
I have the ^
 
You can't say things like Jon Blow does without getting drunk.
 
4:15 PM
Just to get some culture, what's this all about this Jon Blow guy ?
 
@Rerito Creator of Braid, and cargo-culting programmer.
He recently started giving "programmer" "talks" about his dreamed ideal language. See his video.
 
ooh hats
cant wait! now back to filming so bbl
 
@Ell Oh. My. Gosh.
 
@Rerito he made some indie games, and now thinks he's shit hot
 
@milleniumbug Could'nt watch it, I couldnt stand his condescending tone
 
4:20 PM
@Rerito ikr
 
@thecoshman I felt it in his voice
 
The tone is nothing yet compared to the actual content
 
user1646075
@Rerito press up-arrow while in the box, you can edit.
 
Sorry, IM reflexes :p
 
user1646075
i had to lean early 'cos my tiping is siht.
 
4:23 PM
Yeah I love how he says basically "private members are useless, a read only blahblah", what about const ?
 
@thecoshman unfortunately the average "coder" level is so low most of the watchers also think he knows what he's talking about... :/
@Rerito He basically says "I don't know shit about programming".
 
@Griwes I'm not skilled enough to be this categorical, but I must confess the "read-only" stuff struck me as a real WTF
 
> He mentioned that garbage collection, or anything else that might hurt performance, was a no-no for him. As a layprogrammer, I agree with that. Less safety and sanity checks, less feature bloat, more performance please.
The average level of youtube "coders" is below the ground.
 
The "more performance please" is troubling
 
No.
The "less safety and sanity checks" part is troubling.
 
4:27 PM
Performance comes from a good implementation in the first place
 
the youtube part is troubling
 
More performance? Hell yeah.
Less safety and sanity checks? Get the fuck off my planet.
 
"Guys lets build a square wheel, the round one has some bugs"
Time to get in the subway back home ... Have fun on YT ...
 
user1646075
@Griwes GC doesn't have to be that expensive. I've read some really impressive % factors
 
Also, the best is that he's essentially saying "I want my memory be managed automatically, yet GC is too slow and RAII is cancer"
well then what the heck do you want?
 
user1646075
4:31 PM
try fortran. no need for any GC
 
-2
A: Practical uses of the fact that the C++ prefix increment operator returns an lvalue

Tamil MaranUntill i know the main use of prefix operator as lvalue in c++ is to chain one or more prefix operations. for example, --++--variable; This is possible in c++ since the value attained after one operation is an Lvalue. And this can not be done with a postfix operator, since it would be an Rvalue.

"practical use"? lol
 
i'm really wondering if any big worldwide companies exist that are not american.
 
Although --++--variable is a breath of fresh air compared to these endless i++ + ++i questions.
@Gizmo Sony?
 
@FredOverflow oh that's right xD
then at least Russia won't block Sony :P
bad enough they already blocked paypal & visa stuff
and other mayor players in the market
 
@Gizmo Why?
 
4:42 PM
@FredOverflow Probably that american "sanction" thing
their counter-attack?
I don't know what they want to achive but the whole world is shooting themselves in the feet
 
Ell
do you guys use a logging library? I want coloured outputs
 
I'm not sure this answer (and the others like it) is very good. How is he supposed to write a templated function that interprets std::valarray<std::valarray<double> > and std::valarray<double> the same way? It seems to me that what he's asking is not really possible the way he's asking it. I imagine he would need to overload the function to convert the parameters into something the original function can use, then pass the conversion into the original function to do the legwork. — caps 2 mins ago
 
@Ell I made mine.. but it logs to files
 
@GuruAdrian Tell that to the guy in comments, not to me, duh.
 
user1646075
well, i was. but he's not here, and i could only reference to your posting?
 
4:46 PM
@caps lol valarray
 
@Ell log to html files ;)
 
valarray is a bastard child of the committee and nobody likes it.
 
I don't understand how everyone reads his question and thinks "oh, templates will solve his problem."
 
@GuruAdrian The comment is under the (now starred) video.
 
@caps When your hammer is C++, every function looks like a template.
 
user1646075
4:51 PM
?
 
user1646075
bwavo
 
@FredOverflow ...as opposed to Haskell, where every template looks like a function.
3
 
user1646075
;
 
5:08 PM
Man... two downvotes on answers today, just like when i commented on vlads answer. I really should close the tab when i see his name in it.
 
user1646075
fuggit just nodded off i think. @Ell, what was that suggestion of yours?
 
Ell
@GuruAdrian it was :)
 
user1646075
just put the cat out and pointed him at some local endangered bilbies. Time to dream murderous thoughts. Ciao.
 
Ell
Bye :)
 
@GuruAdrian Later.
 
5:18 PM
I'm pissed now :(
(sorry if double post, it said the last one didnt go through)
 
user1646075
cheers. 8 hours later at the least I hope.
 
@Borgleader Vlad the Downvoter
 
@Borgleader I can't blame you. Pretty much every time I comment on/answer the same question Vlad does, I suddenly get a couple of down-votes as well. He's clearly working on improving his C++, but he's just as clearly still an arrogant asshole.
 
@JerryCoffin downvotes
Oh shit he's at 50k who let that happen
Surprisingly he's still unemployed, though.
 
He's probably spending too much time hunting for rep on SO.
 
Ell
5:25 PM
"R version 3.1.2 (Pumpkin Helmet) has been released on 2014-10-31" - I read this as "purple helmet"
 
@Borgleader that's what I do
 
vlad who
 
The implier
 
5:38 PM
Are vtables stored in instruction cache or data cache?
 
Ell
lol
 
I guess it depends on whether the compiler stores it in the text section of the application.
 
@StackedCrooked Many (most?) CPUs have a separate "branch target buffer" for targets of indirect jumps (and similar).
 
Quick Question: Say I have class A { std::string var; some stuff() }; class B : public A {other stuff}; class C :public A { more stuff }; I'm doing a reverse polish notation calculator, so class B is the operator (+, *, etc) and class C holds the numbers. In main I have a std::vector<A *> var2.
Is it better practice to leave the number as a string in A and convert it to double whenever needed? Or convert it to double and create a double variable in A which won't be used by B, and have a separate get function in A?
 
@JerryCoffin I'm only interested in Intel :)
(at the moment)
 
5:42 PM
@StackedCrooked Up to the implementation, I guess, but I think it makes more sense to put it in the data section. A vtable is not executable after all.
 
@StackedCrooked Intel definitely has a BTB.
 
@JerryCoffin Thanks.
 
@StackedCrooked Surely.
 
@TriHard8 Try asking in the PHP chatroom
 
@ParkYoung-Bae The only reason Vlad is unemployed is because rep whore is not recognized as an official profession
 
5:45 PM
@orlp :)
 
@orlp Good one. I've already done it, just asking for best practice, since they don't teach real stuff in the classroom.
 
@TriHard8 if your teachers (people you even pay to learn from) are disinterested enough to not teach you, what makes you think trying your luck in an internet lounge is a good idea?
I honestly would like to petition to remove C++ from the lounge's title lol
 
@TriHard8 Using classes like that is pretty messed up in general. For an RPN, the only class you really need is a stack (vector).
I'm not trying to be mean, it's just, you don't need to be worrying about 'best practices' when you're learning the language.
 
@QuestionC lolwut
@TriHard8 Why your classes aren't named appropriately? If C holds the number, it should be called like a number (Number, Integer). The same holds with B - why not Operator?
 
@milleniumbug Operator is a reserved name. In my program they are named appropriately.
 
5:55 PM
@TriHard8 operator is, Operator is not.
C++ is case sensitive.
About your question, the stack of RPN is probably used in a single place, so it probably doesn't matter.
 
@milleniumbug Good point. I wanted to still with all lowercase for consistency. I called it operate and it doesn't really do much, since each math function does something different. B has all the operators below it.
 
The way I did was a function that parses the string into separate tokens (operators or numbers)
the tokens were simple strings
and the function that actually uses them parses them and make the decision what to do.
Better would be to recognise what the token actually is at the parse time, however this was a simple project, and this would be overcomplicating it.
 
Ell
@milleniumbug I don't think so
the contrary imho, lexers are much easier to write than parsers
and they solve just this issue
 
@TriHard8 There's holy wars in the programming world about how to write your variable names
@TriHard8 so take what I'll say with a grain of salt
 
6:02 PM
@milleniumbug I created separate classes during parse time depending on the input.
 
@TriHard8 but generally I think it's good to use snake_case for variables, and CamelCase for class names
 
Check out the normal vs 60fps version of this video. Never knew this could make such a difference.
 
@orlp No worries man, I knew I could get a hard time. Good to know, thanks for the tip.
 
@Mysticial omggg your hat is so sexy
 
@TriHard8 That's ok. The alternative is a single struct containing an enum { number, plus, minus /* and the rest */ } and single double value.
Depending on situation, this is better, or worse.
 
6:07 PM
@orlp I saved up a gold badge just to get a hat on WB. And it turns out it was totally worth it. This pirate hat is awesome.
 
@Mysticial I'm so jealous. All I got today were downvotes :(
 
Why the heck when I click on Mysticial profile on chat, and then click on "parent user", I get redirected to meta
 
No idea. It's been doing that for a while.
 
FUCK ALF
He just edited my answer and substituted "milliards" by "billions"
So mad right now
 
@Columbo Well, the English language uses the short scale.
 
6:10 PM
@milleniumbug :(
 
it's ok, he said cheers and hth
10
 
The short scale is BS though.
 
bytheway, '3 GHz' processor speed, does that mean it can execute 3,000,000,000 assembly instructions per second or what?
 
@AlexM. lol
 
user1804599
hi
 
6:10 PM
@Mysticial Meta is useless. It doesn't show hats.
 
@Gizmo I think it means 3 billion CPU cycles per second.
 
user1804599
@Gizmo cycles.
 
user1804599
Some instructions take more than one cycle.
 
@Gizmo It's a magical number that means something. It doesn't do what you think it does.
 
Or 3 milliard CPU cycles CC @Columbo.
 
6:13 PM
hm so if I know how much cycles each instruction takes I can roughly estimate the execution time of a piece of code
 
@Gizmo No.
 
@milleniumbug Ahw :(
 
46 secs ago, by milleniumbug
@Gizmo It's a magical number that means something. It doesn't do what you think it does.
 
If you take out preemption out of the equation
 
@Gizmo Context switching between processes is unpredictable.
 
6:14 PM
@Gizmo Unless you're Mysticial, you can't estimate the execution time of a piece of code.
 
@Nican I know, that's why I said 'estimate roughly" :P
 
user1804599
@Gizmo Run it and measure it.
 
@Gizmo Yes.
 
user1804599
Speculations and estimates are all false unless you're an absolute expert on the subject.
 
In non-real-time system it'll roughly vary from whatever you can get by looking at individual instructions to infinity
 
6:15 PM
@rightføld ofcourse it's false, but it give an insight on the order of magnitude
eg will my function take 100 ms or 5 ms?
you can estimate which will be more probable
 
user1804599
Run it and you'll see.
 
@rightføld I know but I'm just curous and interested :D the question just popped into my head
 
There are more important issues than clock speed anyway
 
user1804599
No need to estimate anything.
 
@CatPlusPlus Yeah like overpopulation.
 
user1804599
6:17 PM
You don't have performance problems until you discover them, and you don't have to solve problems until they exist.
 
@StackedCrooked arbitrary width integers solve that though
 
@Gizmo Familiarize yourself with the classics.
 
@rightføld I once had a performance problem. I only learned about it during my performance review.
 
Now instead of flipping bits I'm flipping burgers
 
@milleniumbug the first one I did read a long time ago :D will read the second one, thanks
 
6:18 PM
@orlp Good, I shall notify the EU parliament.
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus I order 2^64 of them.
 
ENOACCES
 
Burgers are better than bits.
 
user1804599
:<
 
@StackedCrooked I wasn't aware the EU parliament are overflowing their integers by too high popcnt
 
6:19 PM
Nobody knows about popcnt
 
@orlp They do that.
I have inside information.
 
user1804599
@orlp Wouldn't be surprised if they forbid integer overflow in countries with a milk production higher than N.
 
@Gizmo There are more.
 
@Gizmo It means the CPU's clock runs at 3 GHz. The exact number of instructions that translates to is much more difficult to determine, but if you want a really simple rule of thumb, a reasonable starting point is to figure that one core will typically execute around 1.8 instructions per clock.
@StackedCrooked Certainly taste better, anyway.
 
@JerryCoffin How do you know it's 1.8?
 
6:27 PM
Not sure how to feel about the fact that the only questions I can write useful answers to before anyone else are related to C++ Builder.
0
A: Dynamic StringGrid C++ Builder

capsFirst, note that your code is creating multiple TStringGrids. It is just creating them all with the same dimensions in the same place on the form, so you only see the one on top. -- What you want to be able to do (Form1->dynamically_created_TStringGrid) is not possible, but there are a couple o...

 
Ell
I need to make some progress on my game, but I can't focus!
 
@Ell have you considered leaving the Lounge?
 
user1804599
@Ell What OS are you using?
 
@Ell Take up photography instead.
 
Ell
@SamDeHaan I have. and I will, but not for the game :P
@rightføld Linux Mint
 
user1804599
6:30 PM
@Ell Run this: for f in /etc/init.d/net.*; do sudo $f stop; done.
 
omg Ubuntu derivatives
 
user1804599
oops
 
Working offline is literally impossible
 
you're literally impossible
 
@CatPlusPlus ?
 
6:31 PM
@CatPlusPlus if you mean writing code.. possible.. if you mean living without youtube then yup, you're right
 
@CatPlusPlus What's wrong with ubuntu derivatives?
 
user1804599
@Ell How about echo 127.0.0.1 chat.stackoverflow.com >> /etc/hosts?
 
Ell
inb4 "they're derived from ubuntu"
 
Exactly
 
@CatPlusPlus you're a butte
 
6:32 PM
@Gizmo There's too many resources needed to write code offline
 
it's "butte"
 
my bad
fixed
 
@CatPlusPlus o.O elaborate?
 
Docs are shitty, even if you keep offline copies, it's not enough
 
@CatPlusPlus I can get work done with offline cppreference
 
6:33 PM
@Gizmo Can you send me offline copy of SO? kthxbye
 
@milleniumbug no problem, just gimme ftp access and the db
 
not all work
but some work can be done like that
 
I deal with lots of third party code because I'm not a C++ developer and I can actually use third party dependencies without spending 10 years making a working build system
 
@CatPlusPlus I prefer C++'s two party system
 
@CatPlusPlus joys of working on windows, no hard feelings for linux, but it's a million times harder to get anything compiled on it
11
 
6:35 PM
@Gizmo hahahahhahaha oh boy you're so wrong
 
Ell
@Gizmo wat
you must be kidding right?
 
starred for shame
6
 
Dealing with C++ on Windows
 
@Gizmo ASCii table, user manuals, code examples, all the other shit you need to find out. Cat's right. OTOH, other development activities like testing and debugging don't need the webz that much, (unless you're actually writing a web app).
@CatPlusPlus Oh - I forgot MSDN.
 
user1804599
> ASCii
 
Ell
6:36 PM
ASC2
 
Debugging can go a lot more smoothly if you can look up symptoms online, too
 
user1804599
You can print an ASCII table in like one line of code.
 
@Gizmo Try getting an actual third party library to work.
 
user1804599
You don't need the internet for it.
 
@rightføld Of course - I only use lower case in code:)
 
Ell
6:36 PM
what namespace do I put std::string file_contents(std::string filepath); in?
 
@Gizmo lol, are you serious
 
@Ell namespace butte { }
 
user1804599
Also run $ man ascii.
 
@milleniumbug I use C++ODB, Sqlite, MySQL, afew other
 
Ell
myproject, myproject::asset, myproject::util or what?
 
6:37 PM
@Ell asdfhxzjhchvjzxcvads
 
works perfectly, fast & easy to setup
 
@rightføld Yes, or no lines of code if you type 'ASCII table' into Google.
 
though mysql seems not to like static builds and crashes so I have to go with dynamic
 
Ell
I'm just gonna do myproject for now
and in Util.hpp
 
> though mysql seems not to like static builds and crashes so I have to go with dynamic
 
6:37 PM
I'm doing most of my development on VM boxes these days
Fuck Windows
 
@Columbo 100%
 
user1804599
@Ell cock
 
yep
definitely indicating a healthy dev environment
 
Well, not development per se, but building and testing
 
@MartinJames All these things can be cached on the big enough hard drive :P
 
6:38 PM
@Gizmo I couldn't even compile OGRE on Windows after hours of struggling with CMake and shit. Linux: A matter of ten minutes and the samples were running.
And that happens to like every library.
 
GLORIOUS FORWARDED PORTS
@milleniumbug Yeah no
 
@milleniumbug Yeah, and they get upversioned just after downloading them.
 
@CatPlusPlus HAHA I SAW YOUR MISSPELLING
 
user1804599
HARRY POTR
 
@Columbo hm I used ogre a few years back, was a matter of half an hour, no need for cmake? ;o
 
6:40 PM
@CatPlusPlus ASCii table, user manuals, code examples? Lots of other things cannot, I agree, but these?
 
For every possible situation?
 
user1804599
They're all in man pages.
 
Your hard drive isn't just hard enough then :P
 
Vendor manuals are so not enough
 
user1804599
Export Stack Overflow questions as man pages.
 
6:41 PM
I really wish many more libraries had amalgamation versions
 
lol
You see in actual good ecosystem you have tools to deal with libraries
 
Two out of 7 libraries I use have a build script for amalgamation
 
amalgamawhation version?
 
And stupid ideas like including the library source in your tree are obsolete
 
@milleniumbug w whole library in just two (three) files
 
6:42 PM
SQlite markets itself as "SINGLE C FILE YOU CAN DROP INTO YOUR PROJECT"
 
one .h, one .c and sometimes one .cpp
 
As if that's a desirable property
Well on Windows it is, but that's not because it's a good idea
 
though on Windows they really should improve concurrent linking
 
@Gizmo Here you go apt-get install libsqllite3-dev
 
it takes already 5 minutes to link my program
 
6:43 PM
I don't think linking is parallelisable
Succeeded: 61 (changed=56)
Failed: 1
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
ALWAYS ONE FUCKING THING
 
Yes it isn't. That's why you don't export every shit there and here.
 
@CatPlusPlus just like the Catch
 
Just use normal libraries.
 
I do know for a fact that instread of having thousands of c++ files which make .obj files takes long in the linker but one big .cpp file including all other .cpp files just takes seconds to link :(
also I enabled optimization in my linker, that's probably where 99% of the linker time goes to
 
One TU builds are not parallelisable either
 
6:46 PM
LTO
Yeah, that may be it.
 
maybe not parallelisable but they are faster :P
 
single TU builds very fast. it's called "unity builds" btw
 
Yeah, it's a nice thing if you want to break anonymous namespaces.
 
Unity builds are dumb
 
...or everything, for that matter.
 
6:47 PM
they're fast.
 
It just shows how backwards C++ ecosystem is
 
at least they're fast for me.
 
"Unity builds" only may make sense in very special cases, on release builds.
 
You get the same effect by using LTO
 
they reduce fucking minutes of build time. and yeah, I use LTO, PCH and other crap
 
6:49 PM
Whole minutes
Woah
 
@Abyx That's nice, however, not really impressive if you don't tell the total time of compilation.
 
Ell
Why is c++ building slow?
 
@Ell Ancient model of compilation (headers)
 
Because compilers are shit, because language is shit
 
...also templates.
 
6:50 PM
@Ell Mostly because of repetitive parsing and compilation of the same things over and over again in each TU.
 
Ell
So it's parsing time?
yeah
 
And everyone has a hardon for executing code during compilation
 
@milleniumbug not as big an issue any more, but can be if you use crazy templates
 
Ell
meh
@CatPlusPlus safety!
 
Gosh there is so much crap on the telly
 
6:51 PM
@Ell <iostream> is about 800KB of code.
 
lol TV
 
@milleniumbug yeah, some projects build for 40 minutes, but 40 minutes is still better than 50
 
I like it, it's like a switch for the brain
 
There's a weird part of YT for that
 
I could watch Jon Blow if only I could stand his voice :p
 
6:56 PM
i'm really wondering how people are debugging their programs when they only have a auto-generated crash report (especially after they compile their programs in release)
on my server I just installed VS and run the release build with "Debug Application" button xD
so might it ever crash I see where :D
I know this is a totally new level of idiocy.. but don't forget i'm lazy
 
Dumps contain at least stack trace and register state
 
that's true
but anyway, whenever a crash occur I already changed many lines of code so it's useless to compare to a new build XD
 
For a production systems I at least have an email notification on every server error
 
yeah i'm wondering how I can set VS to send an email when anything occurs
 
@Gizmo Reproduce on an earlier version, make a regression test, run it on the newest one
 
6:59 PM
@CatPlusPlus let's say I have 100 players playing at a time, when something does anything and it crashes, 99% of the time they don't bother to go to the forum and report what they did
 
I wonder if Breakpad is documented yet
 
it's always on me to find the steps to reproduce the crash :D
 

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