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22:00
so is MS trying to death march themselves to full c++14 conformance for VS 14 RTM next year?
@AlexM. The ice water.
At least temporarily.
@AlexM. A bucket of ice water, for a bit.
@TemplateRex Full C++14 bugformance, yes.
22:00
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah, of course
I think alsa was not mentioned, they're just doing the thing for no reason
but I would be impressed if they get to that point in the next 6 months
@AlexM. the negation of body temperature, briefly
@TemplateRex VS "14" RTM ftfy
@TemplateRex Also, I don't think so. IIRC C++98 is on their plans after that.
22:02
1
Q: C++ or Java for 17-year-old?

Remilia ScarletBeen programming since I was about 12, and just turned 17. I've been programming in C++ and Java mainly lately because I hear they are most important for career opportunities. I'm currently just doing random game projects to increase my knowledge and experience of each. I'm just wondering which i...

great search result, SO.
Obsticles? Sounds like an outcome of the ice-water challenge..
http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/269487/one-of-my-biggest-obsticles-my-employer
@R.MartinhoFernandes no, it's in the table
@Rapptz heh I saw that too. Great job as a result for "c++17"
oh hey
this actually has a delete button
@R.MartinhoFernandes or do they mean everything with "med. prob" will make it to VS14
22:03
never seen it yet
and the rest after that
@TemplateRex No, they mean, it might do. The "med." stands for "medium".
@Puppy ya I know, I was just confused whether the C++98 conformance is targetted for VS14 or not, but it seems not
@TemplateRex Yes, in the table for after.
22:05
hey wait
that Vincent guy is the one making all these questions
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's actually quite bad, would require at least another year before they can properly handle 2phase lookup and c++14-constexpr
that's 2016, and in the mean time, Clang is moving along the moving target for C++17
I doubt they'll handle constexpr properly in another year.
MS will never catch up with modules, concepts etc. if they don't hurry the fuck up with C++14
Judging by how long it has taken them to still not handle variadic templates.
it's only Jonathan Caves doing the compiler stuff, or are there some others?
22:07
Modules will be in MSVC in 2057.
We should make a poll.
I don't know what to do with this question
0
Q: C++17 resumable/await : Can it also be used with boost::future?

ikhIn C++17, there's a nice future like C#'s await. std::future<int> get_answer() { return std::async(std::launch::async, [] { return 42; }); } std::future<void> do_something() resumable { // ... int a = await get_answer(); // ... } But I wonder whether boost::future is also can u...

Bet rep or something.
this doesn't exist any more right?
Questions like that should not exist :S
22:08
yeah I know
We should send those people to std-proposals.
@TemplateRex Clang isn't doing shit for C++17. There's hardly anything confirmed for it right now.
It's all off-topic on SO.
yeah
@Puppy the new for loop is tentatively confirmed
so is static assert, they were just not allowed to formally vote by some silly ISO bylaws
22:09
This question appears to be off-topic because it is about speculation. It belongs on the std-proposals forum. — R. Martinho Fernandes 6 secs ago
typename in a template template parameter?!
The future is now!
@Rapptz None of those features are non-trivial.
0
Q: Should the c++1y tag refer to c++17?

sfjacNow that C++ 14 is official, shouldn't the c++1y tag be changed to refer to what will likely be C++17?

It's still 'shit for C++17'.
22:12
depends on exactly how you care to interpret "shit".
2
Decontextified.
damn
I have an 0.1ton weight imbalance and it's listing to one side as a result.
I wish you could see the COM in more detail.
@Puppy wahaha, you even have 0.1 ton of weight?
22:13
@R.MartinhoFernandes On that note, I think it should apply for the entire .
@RyanHaining likely
@TemplateRex You should see his mother.
@TemplateRex My rocket weighs 42 tons.
@Puppy oh, I thought you were on about your gut
Ugh WinForms hides event loop and there's no way to run a custom one apparently
22:14
0.1 ton weight imbalance
wtb something that creates windows in C#
@Rapptz Done.
The "z" is for conceptz. — Kerrek SB 1 min ago
I spotted a pretty bad error in draft EMC++ today
I'm launching science satellites into orbit around all the bodies I've reached so far.
that way whenever a new contract comes up that's like, "Recover science data from X", I can simply pull up an existing satellite.
Can't launch dorfs into space.
There's no magma in space.
22:15
but for some reason, there are no contract revamp mods out at the moment.
in Item 15: void cannot be a literal type. not in C++11, but it can in C++14
yes, that's such a terrible, grevious error.
@R.MartinhoFernandes The "z" is for dizapointment
@Puppy it was, cuz there'a half a page going on about it, about not being able to make void returning member functions constexpr
@Rapptz Half-tempted to s/std-proposals/Asylum/, though.
22:17
I kinda wanna nuke the C++1z tag.
It's terrible so far
@TemplateRex Well, the new EC++ draft only targets C++11.
@Puppy which he defines as C++11 and C++14
Effective Modern C++ is C++11 and C++14.
ah, I didn't realize he changed it.
@Rapptz Help me close them.
22:18
I did!
I wouldn't say that it's a terribly bad error to have simply not noticed that he needs to update one part of his draft.
We're the lone close votes.
there's also a new chapter on the pass-by-value vs pass-by-ref thing on his blog the other day
@Puppy no of course not, but the code example that he claims can't run, runs fine on Coliru, that would have been easy to verify
waddafuq mechjeb, this is clearly not zero degrees inclination.
and also I fell back into the atmosphere.
Help us close those questions, you bitches.
22:20
meh
btw, Scott also only mentions lvalue and rvalue, but doesn't mention the xvalue / prvalue refinement
It's not particularly important, to be honest.
that's because for end users, it doesn't matter for shit.
yeah that ^^
ninjaed!
22:21
@R.MartinhoFernandes I guess you are right, but then why add this item about squeezing optimal performance out of corner cases, if some corner cases actually differ for lvalue vs xvalue
oh wow, only just saw the vcblog post. So the next version of VS will have partial support for rvalue refs? Golly gee, I am truly impressed. They're knocking it out of the park
weird
@jalf Wait what.
@jalf No, the current version has partial support.
oh wait
I can't read
22:22
Thought so.
why does his thing point to meta?
and the missing support is really a few relatively nitpicks like implicitly-generated move constructors.
@jalf I think STL blogged about it, and that the difference was a tiny corner case, but he downgraded it to partial just to be correct
you make it seem like it's a minor issue
22:23
That shit is quite annoying.
At least it's not crashes left and right.
I guess.
relatively.
@TemplateRex It's definitely not a "corner case".
@TemplateRex doesn't really matter how much is missing. It's something they should have had a couple of years ago. "It mostly works" implies "it doesn't work"
@R.MartinhoFernandes implicit is bad, explicit is good, use SOmmerlad's rule of 5 ;-)
22:24
It works if you write in MSVC++
@jalf To be entirely fair, I believe these rules were added after the original implementation in VS2010.
@Puppy OMG VS2010.
@Puppy What does that have to do with anything?
(But yes, that's true.)
wow, that's a long time ago.
22:25
@Rapptz lolwut
Yes kinda
I was really impressed the other day with Clang, I did a protected: ~Base() = default; and it warned about the copy constructor/assignment generation being deprecated
Good thing it's not just me.
I didn't know that was in C++14 already
22:26
@TemplateRex Sounds annoying.
@TemplateRex You mean, explicitly =default them? Doesn't work.
@TemplateRex That's C++11.
No it isn't
o.o
Defaulting a destructor removes copy and move?
protected, I think.
22:27
@R.MartinhoFernandes what doens't work
@Rapptz Not copy because only deprecated, but yeah, that's the idea.
Xeo
Xeo
@TemplateRex Actually, that shouldn't warn
@TemplateRex VS can't =default move ctors.
Xeo
Xeo
Since you defaulted it
It should only warn if you implement it yourself
@Rapptz yes, any user-defined destructor will suppress copying in a future C++, it's currently deprecated
Xeo
Xeo
22:28
Since it's supposed to warn about the Ro3 being violated
@TemplateRex This isn't 'user-defined'.
it's in Hinnant's ACCU slides
It's defaulted
@Rapptz IIRC, defaulted is still user-defined (which is retarded)
it should be user-declared, at most
Xeo
Xeo
user-declared, not defined
22:29
It shouldn't be?
but I vaguely recall finding out, to my horror, that this is not the case
doing my_aggregate() = default shouldn't remove your aggregate status.
it doesn't, that's half the point of = default;.
> The latter case is deprecated if the class has a user-declared copy assignment operator or a user-declared destructor.
You're all wrong.
It should warn because it is deprecated, and it is not user-defined.
That's such an awful rule.
the C++ Standards Committee, specifying an awful rule? NEVER!
@Rapptz sorry, user-declared
Shitty rule.
@Xeo The warning is about deprecation, not Ro3.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes, and the deprecation is because of Ro3 violation
22:33
But it's deprecated regardless of the Ro3 being violated or not.
woops, launched my Mun satellite with 2.4kdv left over
oh well
If the warning was about the Ro3, it should be silenced in case it was not, like when you default it.
@Ell :O how very dare you!
@R.MartinhoFernandes in any case, still nice of Clang to warn about it
I think it's just par for the course.
22:35
@R.MartinhoFernandes you need -Weverything, won't go with -Wall -Wextra
gcc doesn't have it
LOL
-4
Q: Should the c++1y tag refer to c++17?

sfjacNow that C++ 14 is official, shouldn't the c++1y tag be changed to refer to what will likely be C++17?

someone vtc as "primarily opinion-based"
meta is just one giant shoe-horn, isn't it
this is silly
@LightnessRacesinOrbit clearly
22:35
@TemplateRex So it sucks.
Xeo
Xeo
@Rapptz what is?
all these defaults
@Rapptz lol
I just really hope they go for C++20 something after this next one :S
@Rapptz you don't need to do all the constructors again after using Base::Base
22:36
C++17S
and C++17S mini
@TemplateRex I got a compiler error if I didn't.
@Rapptz oh taht's right, zero-argument constructors don't inherit
I had to do all that to shut the warning/errors up
shitty rule
@Rapptz MACRO time!
22:38
not a macro
I don't recall if I stamped "Inherited ctors" on the corrected MSVC roadmap.
idk
maybe a macro
@R.MartinhoFernandes whether
@LightnessRacesinOrbit the wether is great
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Not recalling is the thing that depends :P
22:39
14
Q: How can I denote abbreviations in Stack Exchange Markdown?

naxaI'm interested in a way to denote abbreviations in Stack Exchange posts. I've tried two kinds of ways. Python Markdown's Abbreviations Extension to no avail: blah HTML blah *[HTML]: Hyper Text Markup Language and also via the abbr HTML element:no luck! blah <abbr title="Hyper Text Markup La...

Either I didn't stamp it, or I don't recall stamping it.
(Phew)
@R.MartinhoFernandes Have you seen mine
@CatPlusPlus Yes.
hours of fun!
lol
Let's flag it!
ahaha
22:40
robot's an idiot
17
I like how chat is broken again
someone flagged it
me.
Yes flag it
Let's ban Feeds
22:41
can Feeds write a blog about his ban?
this will be interesting
let's make Feeds rage quit
translate: woof woof
woof woof
Settle down children!
22:42
@Mysticial What does translate: do?
Come Feeds, get banned.
aw.
What do you think it does
translate: @Puppy I hope you like double-pings.
@Puppy I hope you like double-pings.
22:42
You can see what it does
@StackedCrooked It appears to make Feeds quote it verbatim.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Only one.
@StackedCrooked srs?
translate: translate: translate: hello
translate: translate: hello
It's just echo.
Well it doesn't listen to itself
I thought it maybe translated stuff too.
in Maid Café (メイド喫茶) on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 18 hours ago, by Prix
translate: ご飯にします?お風呂にします?それともワ・タ・シ?
22:43
not
No that would be a feature
translate: Feeds ist ein Arschloch.
Feeds is an asshole.
22:43
We can't have features
Woah, it does.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ya, Sir Michael Berry is quite the character
@Mysticial Oh, it translated to English.
StackedCrooked is on the ball today
> Or maybe WA-Ta system
lol
22:43
translate: Feeds we have ways of dealing with you
Feeds we have ways of dealing with you
translate: すごいですね。
It is incredible.
translate: putain taisez-vous
cool
22:44
fucking shut up
3
translate: nederlands
Dutch
lmao
22:44
Let's make Feeds insult the PHP room and then move all the messages there. :)
ok
translate: PHP fucking sucks and you are a bunch of morons. HTH
PHP fucking sucks and you are a bunch of morons. HTH
translate: spierdalei kurva
spierdalei fucking
ok, how do I unplonk feeds
7
translate: PHP ist Scheiße.
Oh. That's quite good.
translate: affengeil
affengeil
2 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Nice try.
I was expecting "PHP is shit", but "PHP sucks" is a much better translation.
22:45
bucket
ok found a way
translate: int main() {}
int main() {}
translate: Fuck Meta police woop woop
22:46
Fuck Meta police woop woop
ah, just a freestanding Feeds
lol
I love how moving to bin moved it to PHP ;)
translate: translate
translate
22:46
Chat will be polluted for the next 15 minutes.
translate: translate:
translate:
Already tried that scrub
we've done that
not quite the Doctor from emacs, but nice enough
22:46
must have missed it
Hmm..
translate: PHPは恐ろしい
PHP is horrible
Cue GTranslate ban
@AlexM. Marc fixed that last night after we were abusing it too much in the Maid Cafe.
that's not what I said
22:47
Why were you trying to ban feeds?
@Jefffrey Because it would be fucking hilarious
@Jefffrey It used the word "fuck".
To break things
@Mysticial damn, a night too late
22:47
@Mysticial He's been implementing chat features lately.
translate: @Rapptz はばか。
Mid-@Rapptz.
Does that mean there's a chance?!
wait what?
22:48
somebody implemented a chat feature?
holy shit.
anyway back to life
8 mins ago, by Lightness Races in Orbit
@Mysticial Ahahahaha so they did make that mistake
translate: BЈовић
BЈовић
@Puppy This is the 3rd one in the past week I think.
22:48
It's like they've never been on IRC in a room with bot with echo
@Mysticial Fun fact: Marc lives about 4 miles from where I am right now
@Rapptz prove it
@TemplateRex It's a name.
translate: Chat will be forever broken I hate you all
@CatPlusPlus noobs
22:49
Chat will be forever broken I hate you all
@Mysticial it used to be recursive?
0
A: Defining variables vs calculating on the fly

HadesHeraldYour question on memory is easy to answer, variables are stored identifiers so each take a couple bytes (bytes store 8 bits or binary digits) to store. That being said, a byte is almost no memory, meaning that ultimately it has no net effect. In terms of RAM (or Random Access Memory) a byte is ...

@R.MartinhoFernandes damned kazachs
translate: why?
@CatPlusPlus It wasn't fully recursive. But you could get Feeds to post O(N^2) text with only O(N) input.
22:49
why?
ok we get it. stop now.
can it not be removed?
"a byte is almost no memory, meaning that ultimately it has no net effect"
2
22:50
in Maid Café (メイド喫茶) on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 17 hours ago, by Logan M
translate: translate: translate: @Mysticial
Pity they removed that.
Also how about some real features we've been asking for for the last 4 years
@quantdev you got it
definition: help
22:50
@Rapptz erm, that's one this week
they lied to me :(
granted a few over the last couple of months
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I didn't say 'today'.
@Jefffrey : "Make sense ?"
I said 'this week'.
i.e. in 7 days
22:51
@Rapptz All trivial, of course
@quantdev "Of course not"
@Rapptz replace with "this week"
granted I was still off.
there has been one this week ;)
Test, TEST or Tester may refer to: Test (assessment), an assessment intended to measure the respondents' knowledge or other abilities == Science and technology == test (Unix), a Unix command for evaluating conditional expressions TEST (x86 instruction), an x86 assembly language instruction Experiment, a part of the scientific method Test (biology), the shell of sea urchins and certain microorganisms Test method, a definitive procedure that produces a test result Physical test Chemical test Statistical test == People == Desmond Tester (1919–2002), Anglo-Australian actor John Test (1771–1...
whoa
22:52
gotta go, don't feed the feeds
now that's cool
What's cool
@Rapptz What's cool?
@Rapptz what did you do
what's cool
22:52
*fart
wiki: wikipedia-article
Of course.
Hockey is a family of sports in which two teams play against each other by trying to maneuver a ball or a puck into the opponent's goal using a hockey stick. In many areas, one sport (typically field hockey or ice hockey) is generally referred to simply as hockey. == Etymology == The first recorded use of the word "hockey" is from the 1773 book Juvenile Sports and Pastimes, to Which Are Prefixed, Memoirs of the Author: Including a New Mode of Infant Education, by Richard Johnson (Pseud. Master Michel Angelo), whose chapter XI was titled "New Improvements on the Game of Hockey". The belief that...
Ell
Ell
22:52
wtf is happening
TRULY THE GREATEST FEATURE THAT CHAT MASTERS HAS GRACED US WITH
@Ell people are discovering bots
@CatPlusPlus it's something™
Feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV) is a lentivirus that affects cats worldwide. From 2.5% up to 4.4% of cats worldwide are infected with FIV. FIV differs taxonomically from two other feline retroviruses, feline leukemia virus (FeLV) and feline foamy virus (FFV), and is more closely related to human immunodeficiency virus HIV. Within FIV, five subtypes have been identified based on nucleotide sequence differences coding for the viral envelope (env) or polymerase (pol). FIV is the only non-primate lentivirus to cause an AIDS-like syndrome, but FIV is not typically fatal for cats, as they can live...
wiki: somethingyoucannotfind
22:53
i.e. shut up cat
C++ (pronounced cee plus plus) is a general purpose programming language. It has imperative, object-oriented and generic programming features, while also providing the facilities for low level memory manipulation. It is designed with a bias for systems programming (e.g. embedded systems, operating system kernels), with performance, efficiency and flexibility of use as its design requirements. C++ has also been found useful in many other contexts, including desktop applications, servers (e.g. e-commerce, web search, SQL), performance critical applications (e.g. telephone switches, space probes)...
@Jefffrey We have a chatbot in the Maid Cafe that does that.
I don't understand what's happening anymore
Ell
Ell
there is a bot in this room?
I'll go to sleep
That is more annoying that translate, so you can stop right now
The domestic cat (Felis catus or Felis silvestris catus) is a small, usually furry, domesticated, and carnivorous mammal. It is often called the housecat when kept as an indoor pet, or simply the cat when there is no need to distinguish it from other felids and felines. Cats are often valued by humans for companionship, and their ability to hunt vermin and household pests. Cats are similar in anatomy to the other felids, with strong, flexible bodies, quick reflexes, sharp retractable claws, and teeth adapted to killing small prey. Cat senses fit a crepuscular and predatory ecological niche. Cats...
@R.MartinhoFernandes Your vote is binding.
when will they fix this annoying crap?
22:54
Ok, I stop.
@R.MartinhoFernandes You already nuked it
@R.MartinhoFernandes OP vote is binding.
Ell
Ell
Why does concurrent hello world always give the same output?
@R.MartinhoFernandes can't you already did
also lol
22:54
because the output is cached by Coliru.
@Ell cachy cache
that cache is silly then
that cache saves money
Wow
It reboots every 10 seconds anyway
22:55
Xeo's bug report got fixed quickly.
It probably can't handle not caching stuff :v
Ell
Ell
I can't find my paper license :o
"probably"
s/probably//
@R.MartinhoFernandes btw fix the wiki link while you're there
22:55
@Rapptz ?
4
Q: Asterisk and underscore behave differently with markdown in chat and comments

XeoFrom the formatting help (on the site and on the chat), it seems like * and _ should be interchangeable (in pairs) wrt emphasis (bold and italic). However, as this (correct) and this (incorrect) link show, backticks stop working when using underscores for emphasis. Can haz fix?

cool
Important fix
Deploy immediately
But multiline murkdown is still broken because why fix everything in one go
22:57
This List of French words of Germanic origin is a dictionary of Standard Modern French words and phrases deriving from any Germanic language of any period, whether incorporated in the formation of the French language or borrowed at any time thereafter. == Historical background == French is a Romance language descended primarily from the Gallo-Roman language, a form of Vulgar Latin, spoken in the late Roman Empire by the Gauls and more specifically the Belgae. However, northern Gaul from the Rhine southward to the Loire starting in the 3rd century was gradually co-populated by a Germanic confederacy...
Oh I forgot that's broken by design so it's okay
That's nearly a dictionary.
they don't know how to fix it
a glimpse at Lounge<C++> from 2012:
With the broken spacing :allears:
22:58
you were nothing without me. nothing.
TIL white spirit is a french word.
@StackedCrooked It's even headed, "Dictionary".
@StackedCrooked it's... not
so many old avatars.
@Rapptz cicada D:
@StackedCrooked "This List of French words of Germanic origin is a dictionary (...)"
22:59
Speaking of which, I need to update my avatar.
@Borgleader which one was cicada?
But I'm having trouble finding another good one.
@Mysticial No.
@Jefffrey the... chick
22:59
@Jefffrey to my left.
== Français == === Étymologie === Emprunt de l’anglais white spirit. === Nom commun === white-spirit /wait spi.ʁit/ masculin invariable Variante orthographique de white spirit....
welp I'm off to bed
gonna go see guardians of the galaxy tomorrow
(i have no pun for this one :( )

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