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00:00
@JerryCoffin honestly I find it preferable when they're not. Inexperience isn't as great as it's cracked up to be.
I like your definition better.
Ell
Ell
@anthropomorphic it's handy when you're not experience too though
if she'd be acting all teach-y, I think I'd play along :A
@anthropomorphic Yes, but I'm a kind and generous sort of deity, so if I have to help a young lady gain experience, I'm willing to make that sacrifice.
@Ell yes I have to say, the first time I was glad she and I were on the same playing field. Since then it's been nice to have some new perspective on how it's done.
@JerryCoffin telkitty and cicada it is ;)
00:06
ok, noob question
who's cicada?
he has many names
I've heard the (user)name a million times already but no clue as to who he/she is :D
@ScottW unicorn level rare
@ScottW oh yes, me >.>
but im not 19
:O
Ell
Ell
In 7 hours or more I'll know that I'm not going to uni next year
I ought to sleep to make that time go faster
Night all!
@Ell Night ell!
00:23
Hey, so I was reading the "asking questions" guide, and it reads "And no PHP or Java questions, no matter what." Why? What do you all have against PHP and Java?
No one here actually likes PHP or Java.
I like Java. Does this mean I don't belong here?
of course
Yeah man. Sorry.
@anthropomorphic What do you like about Java?
00:26
@Ell Sleep well.
@anthropomorphic We have a room we set up just for people like you: chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/23658/java-sucks
It's a quarantine room.
While we try to search a cure.
is that mini me in a shark suit?
-1
Q: did you actually try the enable_if approach on this answer

user2732004Checking a member exists, possibly in a base class, C++11 version ? I get a "use of parameter 't' outside function body" error (for the return type specification). [g++-4.7] Best -- Geof

Could we close this?
@Borgleader No. That's you in a mini shark-suit.
Have you guys seen @sehe lately?
He hasn't been in chat in 6 days apparently
00:31
Is that abnormal?
@Rapptz I think you just answered your own question.
But hey, this is SO, where that is acceptable behavior.
@Jefffrey If I tell you what I like about Java will you explain to me why I'm wrong?
It depends. I'm not an expert in Java. I just find it boring.
Feature-wise
Is it weird that I like C++ because it's painfully complicated?
yes
yes
well, unless you are a real masochist
masochists are fascinating
00:34
What do you guys think are good format strings with positional arguments?
@anthropomorphic You should also realize that although we tolerate it to a much greater degree than PHP or Java, most of us don't really like C++ either.
I like C++
but not because it's complicated
because it's fun and lets me do whatever I really want in any paradigm I want without forcing me to a specific one
C++ has become ok since C++11.
It'll become decent when they'll implement concepts.
@Jefffrey I had the opposite impression.
@Rapptz that's the argument I use too
00:35
as soon as I started reading about rvalue references I gave up and learned ruby.
@anthropomorphic Reply to message, please.
@anthropomorphic No, it needs to get quite a bit better before it qualifies as "indecent" (but "indecent" is pretty much as good as it gets...)
@anthropomorphic Yeah, you clearly love complexity.
@anthropomorphic lol
I have a love-hate relationship with C++. I love that it keeps me learning. I hate that sometimes I just want it to work, and it doesn't.
00:38
4 mins ago, by Rapptz
What do you guys think are good format strings with positional arguments?
what are positional arguments
print("{0} {1} {0}", 1, 2) --> 1 2 1
I like the format that's used by C# .NET
that one yeah
@Xeo -san y u no sleep D:
For instance, before today I had no idea that T const * was different from T * const, and it caused me a giant headache. But I still got to learn something, which is cool.
00:40
that's the one I currently have implemented but it lacks a lot of things
print("...", {1, 2})
you suck jeffrey
that example sucked :@
that variadic template abuse sucked
you pass a group of arguments
00:42
you're terrible
anyone else has an opinion that isn't terrible?
:)
print(1, 2, "...")
rapptz has a routine that says "you don't suck"
but the problem is, he has an infinite loop of "you suck" right before it
no, seriously now, why did the number of games in my steam lib go down by 1 when I activated doom 3
I'm pretty mad about this
I wanted my +1
it can't be a bug
the steam website shows me the same number
format_string a("...");
a.set_arg(0, 1);
a.set_arg(1, 2);
print(a);
00:47
Has anyone here used CATCH?
yes
Does anyone here still use CATCH?
yup
I hat to type "yes" 3 times before realizing my message was being merged with my previous "yes"
Good. I always feel better about doing something if other people do it too.
00:49
just don't apply this reasoning to rape
Or jumping off of buildings
my lua binding has 62 stars on github now
I still don't have a format string
"{{0}} {{1}}"
"{(0)}"
@Rapptz 63
00:54
Why can't you just go with "%s" like everybody else?
have you seen how positional arguments look like in POSIX
it's the very definition of 'ugly'
code does not have to be pretty, it just have to work
go play with ruby if you want to see pretty at all costs
well
my library
and I want to make it reasonably pretty
format strings are never pretty
nah
C# and Python have nice ones
00:57
such as?
Why isn't there string interpolation in C++?
because low level
Oh, the bump to 5.0 for GCC is a change in the versioning scheme.
why..?
the old versioning scheme made sense..
01:00
Major number was more historical than anything.
Also, the new system does make sense.
if they were going to change their scheme, they should have gone with semantic versioning
@Jefffrey string interpolation doesn't seem like an inherently high level process.
@Rapptz cast a delete vote to the question you have posted
"for a better SO"
I don't have 20k rep.
@anthropomorphic String interpolation needs reflection support which C++ doesn't have.
@anthropomorphic you mean at language level or library level? if you mean the former, then you don't understand how low level the (language - the standard library C++) really is
01:02
@Rapptz It may not be the best fit for a compiler. For instance backward compatibility requirements may be more stringent than more typical software.
@LucDanton raise major version during ABI changes
couldn't there be a string interpolation operator which, when overloaded, returned a string representation used in interpolation?
That wouldn't require reflection would it?
That is, I think the version number for GCC is more useful for end-users rather than ‘typical’ clients. There’s not that much software that interfaces with GCC.
@Rapptz Which happens never.
we have this already, operator<<, it doesn't solve anything.
@LucDanton It happens every so often :v
rarely though
gcc 4.7 was ABI breaking and now GCC 5.0 will be ABI breaking for example
operator << modifies a stream object, it doesn't return a string value.
01:05
std::stringstream.
@Rapptz I think the last time was 15 years ago.
I still fail to see the problem. What case is there that C++ couldn't handle by providing an operator?
@LucDanton Oh if you mean pure language level ABI then yeah I guess.
GCC 3.2 release from 2002 moved to Itanium. No change since no?
I meant any type of ABI breakage, i.e. libraries too despite them not being part of the compiler per se they're usually intertwined with the compiler release.
01:08
Well GCC compiles many languages so…
yes
@anthropomorphic String interpolation is when I do something like print("{apples}")
and I have an apples variable somewhere in scope
dumb question, what's a word for when you push all the responsibility on someone else, while still maintaining ownership of the thing made?
C++ doesn't have reflection necessary to handle that
libstdc++ does symbol versioning btw.
E.g. there is a separate CXXABI_X.Y.Z label.
@Rapptz not at the library level, but the compiler could do it.
01:11
the C++ committee doesn't like magic
stupid customs
holding my package hostage
makes me so upset
@Rapptz It seems to me that string interpolation is not that much more magical than operator""
whatever that thing's called...
user defined something rather
literals?
@anthropomorphic wrong
UDLs are a language feature, not magic in the standard library.
So given that previous release sometimes get backported changes that make them cross API lines, I can see how semver might not seem like the natural choice.
@Rapptz I'm talking about implementing interpolated strings as a language feature, not a magical library extension.
01:15
too much of a breaking change
besides, it would have the potential to break so much code, what if i actually want to print {apples}
@anthropomorphic not gonna happen
it'd have to be implemented using magic in the standard library (i.e. in the print function)
Not if an interpolated string had a different delimeter (something other than ") that was previously a syntax error.
no sane delimiter is left
besides, i dont see how theyre useful
01:18
printf posix positional arguments so ugly
and they have a dumb gotcha ._.
Expressive syntax is always useful.
I guess I'll just try implementing printf
@CatPlusPlus Chromium embedded? Don't.
Good morning.
@Rapptz good luck.
@AlexM. I'm watching it in my spare time. The mystery 'cases' are too mundane and some are borderline boring.
01:21
I mean that sincerely.
It's not really too hard
It's actually simpler than {..} stuff
It would be. At least printf forces you to provide type information.
No point in that.
But in C++11 I don't imagine that's necessary
I'd just use %s for everything
01:24
maybe you could just use %v for all types
and the rest of the type specifiers would be equivalent to static_cast<type>(...)
or that
@Rapptz or just % now that I think of it. No need for an extra letter.
the letter is there to delimit the format string..
what do you mean?
printf handles formatting too, i.e. printf("%2.4s", "hi") would handle the formatting of the string and it terminates with s.
without the type specifier there's no way to delimit it
i.e. printf("%2.4") how would you parse that?
01:29
If you're going to implement alignment and what not, then yes you're right.
well yeah
the whole point of printf is the formatting
I was thinking print("x = %", x);
you can implement that in like 10 lines if you want
That's why I suggested it.
Easy code = happy code
I recommend implementing factorial, it’s even easier.
01:31
when you look up type safe printf you literally find wrappers to printf
which kinda defeats the major (only?) advantage of streams..
Factorial is so easy you can implement it at compile time
That’s a poor measure of ease.
also that's such an old way of doing it
@Rapptz what's a newer way?
constexpr size_t factorial(size_t n) {
    return n == 0 ? 1 : n * factorial(n - 1);
}
01:36
@Rapptz wow, that really works?
yes
See, this is what I was saying about C++. I will never run out of things that I don't know about.
at first I thought the cloning spammer was back, then I realised it's just people using the same avatars ...
Ok, so the internet just hit the 512k limit: puck.nether.net/pipermail/outages/2014-August/007091.html
For all we know those things could be running on DOS-era hardware.
0
Q: What can be improved in Java?

perlpondererI had an interview today and one of the questions was something along the lines of "Can you think of a feature from another language that you could use to improve Java?" My exposure to other languages is fairly limited so I was wondering if someone could offer up their opinion?

^^ Flamebait
01:49
-2
A: What can be improved in Java?

emoryThat is easy. I would wish java could read my mind and implement features without me doing anything. It would be cool if it could cure cancer and bring back the dead.

People downvoted that answer???
lol, red-flagged
if it had been a comment, it probably would have been upvoted
So this somehow confirms that DX12 should run on DX11 class hardware: extremetech.com/gaming/…
1
Q: Hide questions with negative scores from front page?

djechlinObviously question quality is one of the most important issues that faces SO. I'm perfectly happy reading a new question and downvoting on it, but I think I would have a better experience (i.e. spend more time reading interesting questions, producing quality answers, and enjoying myself more) if ...

^^ Needs boats
01:59
I really don't go to the front page anymore.
I never did.
@Rapptz thought so too at first, but then the whole topic of the anime changed
Even lamer.
I'll see I guess.
02:16
Someone flooded the LQ queue with link-only answers.
not me
0
A: Google AdExchange Seller API - using a developer key to get reports

feras abukhaitVisit http://area51.stackexchange.com/ regularly! Use angle brackets to force linking: Have you seen http://superuser.com?

what the hell lol
lol wtf
I feel like that person created a trhow-away account just to troll.
I don't blame them. I would do the same. As a low-rep user I have to conserve my points.
02:37
> first order of business should be renaming the team to "LA Clippys" source
lol
03:14
@anthropomorphic No you don't. You just have to answer a question now and again, and more points happen pretty much automagically.
@JerryCoffin oh, I know (actually lately most of my points have come from editing) but I like reviewing posts, so I'm sort of saving up for 2k-3k when I'll have access to more reviewing privileges.
it's not fun, trust me
there's so much garbage
seriously I think SO is 85% garbage give or take 5%
@anthropomorphic Answers aren't wine. They almost never improve with age so "saving [them] up" is unlikely to do anybody any good.
@Rapptz I agree.
I'm not saving up answers (like wine), I'm saving up rep (like spare change).
03:23
@anthropomorphic If you want rep, write answers. Editing is a much slower, more difficult way of getting rep--and rarely does anybody nearly as much good either. Once you reach 2K (I think it's 2K, anyway) you no longer get rep from editing anyway.
you get rep from editing tag wikis
until 20k rep
and everyone is plagiarising the tag wikis
I've only seen 1 legitimate tag wiki edit in the past 5 days
@Rapptz Well some people do, anyway. I'm pretty sure I never have...
03:40
@Yuushi This is a spike of plagiarism, not just crud.
@JerryCoffin That was for the "seriously I think SO is 85% garbage give or take 5%" comment
you should click the arrow on the right to reply to a specific message
we rely on that to manage the flow of conversation
Speaking of garbage, this one needs close votes:
wut...
It's not spam?
there should be an auto close mechanism for questions that have Input Format: and Output Format: in the body
I can't imagine a sane question having those in the body
03:42
lol doing the background checking for the applicants of your rental property can be intrusive ... some applicants came with a year of their bank statement to support their application, I probably know their financial history better than their friends or colleagues ... scary ...
Hmm..."put on hold as unclear what you're asking by Jerry Coffin, chris, Rapptz, pstrjds, Yuushi 47 secs ago". How did a non-Lounger get in there?
:-)
It's all @Mysticial's fault.
@Mysticial I absolutely thought it was spam until I actually opened the link...
I thought so too lol
03:46
New Game: Who can ask a question with the most spam-ish title that is actually not spam?
I remember this once, I was doing the background check for an applicant, I said the figure wrong - instead saying "has he worked there for 4 years" which he put down the paper, I asked "has he worked there for 7 years". And the other end said "yes!"
@Mysticial But if I asked a question, I'd have to start writing answers again to keep my ratio from getting too low.
@Mysticial A question about how to detect spam.
@JerryCoffin Gives you more reason to write equally spammy answers. ;)
I still like the bounty game better.
Who can ask the worst question and keep it open long enough to put a bounty on it.
The only rule being, you can't delete/undelete your question. Nor can you close/reopen it yourself if you have the dupe hammer.
@Mysticial Nobody here has the dupe hammer, do they?
03:54
nope, none at all
@Mysticial I can't find it anymore but there was a question with a bounty about Turbo C++ with like -9.
@Rapptz I remember that. :)
> Thank you for reviewing 20 low quality posts today; come back in 20 hours to continue reviewing.
b-but the garbage!
it needs cleaning
Run for moderator. I'll vote for you.
-15
Q: MyProgram.exe has stopped working

KasiyAHere it is my real code finally, that I wrote in Turbo C++ 3.0 (because I needed its graphical mode to draw graphical maze as a output). Please help me to fix this error: That works well for less than 120×120 size, but When I input larger number(ex: 300×300) it's stopped working. I solved my pro...

03:57
@chris lol
I'd vote for any lounger really but I don't think a noob like me without meta activity would make it past nomination.
@chris I wonder if deleting the question will take away the bounty rep.
@chris Yeah it was this.
@Rapptz ...except Puppy. He'd end up getting all of SO shut down for a few hours and have all but one or two mods fired when he renamed it to www.vagina.com.
8
lol
03:59
instant starboard

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