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21:03
> Cat Plus Plus: Oh, it's smoke grenade?
(...)
Cat Plus Plus: What
Puppy .: I thought it was a plain explosive
Cat Plus Plus: That made a lot of sense
The way these plans worked out is awesome.
ugh, codebase is full of this nauseous "pattern"
why have a local bool for if you're destructing or not...
double delete, there's no clear ownership.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I love how my name is "Puppy ."
oic.
actually, I kinda disagree.
Xeo
Xeo
narf, I need meatspace people to play SpeedRunners with
21:05
> Cat Plus Plus: cosh, you whisper at gm, not me
I've used a similar structure in the past.
it's not ideal though.
and having it as just a plain Collection doesn't make a great deal of sense.
Xeo
Xeo
@StackedCrooked remove parent before deleting?
user1804599
Nice.
user1804599
I wrote tool for generating constants in both LiveScript and PHP.
in fact, it just occurred to me that I had a bit of a crucial difference, which is that ~Collection didn't destroy the contents on destruction.
21:11
> Kimbalky-R-NSN-2: what is even wrong with the robot in the first place?
HAHAHa I remember this, some two hours into the mission of fixing the robot.
yeah...
I gotta admit, it dried up a bit once we actually got to the business of fixing the robot
since we had no idea what the fuck to do
@DeadMG I've refactored someof the code to this: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/d193ae5569e2bf3c
definitely better
Xeo
Xeo
@StackedCrooked psst: maybe_delete and .find :D
Of course this is not complete (Item should probably be noncoyable)
21:13
@Xeo Can't .find until C++14.
Xeo
Xeo
Can with maybe_delete
hm, true.
Xeo
Xeo
just don't delete the pointer you're searching with
What's maybe_delete?
Xeo
Xeo
it's a hack, but it works
21:14
but then you're introducing maybe_delete into the whole structure when you only need it when searching.
I concur that it's a giant hack.
@StackedCrooked In this case, it's an optimization you might or might not have need for that might or might not speed things up.
Xeo
Xeo
@StackedCrooked a deleter that only deletes if a boolean flag is set
the flag is normally set to delete
and if you're doing lookup, you construct a unique_ptr with the flag set to not-delete
in C++14 map and set gained heterogenous lookup, if I recall correctly
so you can simply find by &item directly without any problems.
Xeo
Xeo
I wonder if that's as safe as I think it is
guess exceptions would fuck it up
erase is noexcept.
Xeo
Xeo
21:19
oh, right
so yeah, that should work as a simple option
also a hack, but a smaller one
Xeo
Xeo
and you don't introduce maybe_delete
> return **items.emplace().first
so beautiful
Xeo
Xeo
@StackedCrooked ye
actually, I think you can do just erase({ &item, { false } })
wow
that's amazing
Xeo
Xeo
21:21
and maybe_delete can be simplified a bit
struct maybe_delete
{
    bool b = true;
    void operator()(Item* item) {
        if (b) delete item;
    }
};
though I personally would template the operator()
> Ok, let's close it for today. I need to leave now anyway.
NO
FFS
Any guess what caused the "NO FFS" reaction?
Puppy drawing dicks on the map.
Oh wait, it was thecosh.
Oh well. Surprising
@StackedCrooked what's the goal? just a pointer-container? I'd always use boost::ptr_set here
Xeo
Xeo
@StackedCrooked I think I'd actually go with the erase/release combo
since it doesn't pollute the unique_ptr type
@sehe It started here.
21:25
@StackedCrooked so, "yes". Just ptr_set. I bet it's for runtime polymorphism on the elements. Right.
@Xeo erase/release?
@StackedCrooked Wait. No. Parent links?!
Xeo
Xeo
7 mins ago, by Xeo
Hm: http://coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/1354480d3435ab56
If it is actually safe
That's ownership done wrong with responsibility done wrong.
Wow
@sehe yep and it's in lot of places like this
colleague prides himself in making it work
21:26
Consistency is Good :)
@Xeo oh
It keeps getting better :)
I've come to appreciate this in legacy code bases: at least, when they followed a wrong pattern, let them stick to it, because then the refactorings apply everywhere
@R.MartinhoFernandes Dunno. Maybe. I'm terrible at it. Also probably not May
@Xeo So, release is noexcept and set::erase too?
Xeo
Xeo
erase is not, actually, if you don't pass an iterator
21:28
@StackedCrooked that antipattern. See starboard
Xeo
Xeo
the comparator may throw
I can't think of a situation where .erase would throw.
@Xeo That kinda spoils it don't you think? Also, the no-op deleter has my vote for expressiveness anyways
Xeo
Xeo
but if the comparator is noexcept it should be safe
@sehe yeah, but it taints the unique_ptr, which maybe be annoying
There's no downside to using the no-op deleter, though, right? Mmm. Increased storage size?
21:30
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah... the puppy absolutely did not draw dicks on the map.
bool operator== (const Item&, const Item&) throws(file_not_found);
...
Xeo
Xeo
@StackedCrooked that one's irrelevant for the pointer compare of std::set though :P
Oh. Well, maybe abuse ADL and define extra operator< overloads for the user-defined-type.
I mean, namespace X will be searched for operator<(std::unique_ptr<X::T> const&, U const&)
Xeo
Xeo
You mean operator<
21:33
Yup that one.
@CatPlusPlus Ah, pity. Maybe we'll get Xeo to play instead.
@EtiennedeMartel Pretty nice patchnotes really.
but honestly I finished playing Banished like two months ago
he really needed to push this stuff out much sooner
@Xeo Around when would that be?
Xeo
Xeo
21:39
Good question :s
I'm probably gonna be busy the next few weeks
Or rather, hopefully
Also yay long weekend
@StackedCrooked make it non-copyable, so it's also non-sliceable
I'm going on a trip, and there will be a lot of alcohol involved
rip me
oh ahaha it already is. I think I meant non-movable. But now I'm wondering about slicing semantics at move-time
Xeo
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Are other people involved?
21:40
Yes
Xeo
Xeo
CAT CONFIRMED FOR UNCONFERENCE
Ah damn. You made me check.
Why would you want me there of all people
Don't be silly.
Also I'd probably get lost and die somewhere en route
user1804599
21:43
Time for a new avatar.
Though, about the unconference: it's in about a month. Maybe we should discuss what we want to do, and maybe establish some means of communication that is not totally public.
15
What's the plan anyway
@CatPlusPlus That's what I just asked.
I can deploy ejabberd provisionally
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus Drunk Pole found dead next to highway.
21:45
Or just +i room on Freenode or whatever
Xeo
Xeo
@rightfold next to drunk highway
user1804599
lol
Highway to hell Germany
user1804599
Xeo
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Why wouldn't I?
21:46
@CatPlusPlus Problem with IRC is always the same: no built-in logs.
tomorrow is a holiday for all of us?
First of May is a holiday in most western countries.
Xeo
Xeo
Tag der Arbeit in Germany
which is kinda ironic
Dag van de arbeid in Belgium.
Xeo
Xeo
yeah, same thing
21:47
International Workers' Day is a celebration of labour and the working classes that is promoted by the international labour movement and occurs on May 1 every year. That day, May 1, is also the traditional European Spring holiday of May Day. Therefore, May 1 is a national public holiday in more than 80 countries, but in only some of those countries is the public holiday officially known as Labor Day or some similar variant. In the other countries, the public holiday marks the Spring festival of May Day. Further, still other countries celebrate a Labour Day unrelated to International Wor...
user1804599
De dag waarop je extra hard moet arbeiden.
We also have holiday on 3rd
It's Saturday.
We're celebrating a constitution that was in effect for couple of months but apparently was really good??
I took the day off for Friday as well.
Xeo
Xeo
21:48
ye
but I will actually be busy Friday :<
Xeo
Xeo
appointments with two doctors
I took the day off yesterday.
Recovery and stuff.
user1804599
I’m an animal again.
user1804599
Liberation Day is May 5th.
21:52
Do you guys hate ruby?
@CatPlusPlus We still celebrate the First Republic in Portugal. Even though it lasted only 16 years, there were 45 governments.
Very solid.
There's this thing that appears to be free slack.com/pricing
Somewhere in between there was also a monarchic regime that lasted 24 days.
Stability at its best.
Xeo
Xeo
alright, time for some Japanese
がんばって
user1804599
22:00
konnichihuahua
I've sent you Slack invite Robot, I don't know mails to other people
@CatPlusPlus Sounds cool.
Xeo
Xeo
@StackedCrooked 今日の「ノゲム.ノライフ」をみましたか?
@Xeo まだ
Xeo
Xeo
じゃあ、みろ!
22:07
@Xeo ermahgerd that episode4 of No Game No Life!
...and then people protest when @ScarletAmaranth and I speak Slovak!
Xeo
Xeo
@ScarletAmaranth hahaha, guess what we just talked about (in Japanese) :D
> So no, I'm not required to be able to lift objects weighing up to fifty pounds. I traded that for the opportunity to trim Satan's pubic hair while he dines out of my open skull so a few bits of the internet will continue to work for a few more days.
I can only read Hiragana (so like 7 symbols you wrote)
I'm a slow reader these days
22:08
@AndyProwl I KNOW RIGHT?!
mozem ja toto ojebat!
very very irritating indeed
@sehe or just a late reader
user1804599
:v
slow it is. you'd have known had you caught my other quotes
I empathize, I'm not a fast reader myself
in fact I've been trying some of those speed reading advices
but I haven't succeeded
it's like, either I read carefully and slowly or I don't understand
I tried speed reading many years ago.
22:11
I think I'm slowly succeeding at that. I used to regurgitate each sentence until I knew I had read it complete.
did it work for you?
If I read too fast I often have to start back from the beginning of the sentence like 3 or 4 times
The exercises forced me to read faster and faster while neglecting comprehension.
It was silly.
22:12
yeah, I had the same experience
but I still think I'm doing it wrong
because apparently many people can read twice as fast as I can
These days, there's so little time to read, that I find myself "desperately" scanning ahead, to at least have "an idea". And often, that's it then, in the end.
I fear the secret to quick readers is precisely that: they're comfortable missing the very edges of the meanings embedded in the words, instead just following the stream of the ideas.
I tried "Rapid Breakthrough Reading" and "Power reading". The latter was better because it emphasized comprehension. The former was terrible.
@AndyProwl There's a large normative factor hiding in "have to start back". That's what I'm learning.
@Xeo hmmm
We assume that others take reading as seriously as we do. But that might not be the case. At all.
22:14
I don't think you can sue the parents for the child's negligence...
and I doubt they could pay such a sum anyway
@sehe Lately I've been thinking it's a disorder actually
Can't keep focus
Or yeah well, can't keep focus and understand as much as I think I should
@sehe That's exactly how speed-reading works.
@AndyProwl Normative again
How to read a book is much better than the speed-reading stuff.
I often find myself realizing I skipped large paragraphs or sometimes entire pages.
22:15
In fact my problem is that I either understand everything, including the very edges, or I feel I understood nothing
I lack common sense
@R.MartinhoFernandes Then, I guess the good news is, I'm learning to speed read. It feels more like "discard information on the fly but still pretend to finish the article/piece/book"
You can see how much I like it
You can't speed-read a book on the theory of lasers.
I am a fast reader, but I can't skip stuff.
But I do realize it works. And also start realizing that other people may never have done anything else.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Teach me how you do it
22:17
@sehe that was my exact experience.
I just read. vOv
:(
Btw @R.MartinhoFernandes can you suggest a good book on Unicode? Or good material on the internet
I was thinking of buying this, has a few good reviews
Unicode standard and Robot, respectively
Well, I'm a beginner who wants to fill a huge knowledge gap, so the Standard might not be the best way to approach the topic would it
If I'm particularly tired or something's distracting me, I sometimes read through some paragraph and don't assimilate any of it. I still read all the words, but my brain is too busy to acknowledge them.
@AndyProwl The standard reads quite naturally, actually.
22:19
Ah
Wait "quite naturally" for you or quite naturally? :)
@AndyProwl Hmm, I don't know that one, but I don't think I can say I know all the good ones.
@AndyProwl It doesn't read like legalese.
OK so it's not like C++ Standard
well for me, it's a pretty unconscious process.
I only find out about it when it turns out that I miscategorized a section as not as irrelevant as I initially thought.
22:21
Cool, I'll give it a change then
Jukka's Unicode Explained is good.
I also own Fonts and Encodings but that's a bit more specialised (and for something specialised, it's a goshdarn huge tome, but full of good stuff)
Sounds too advanced for me
pfft, you and your books
some of us are a genius even without the aid of decent books in our subject area.
Good for you
So if you want to try out Slack for Unconference stuff or whatever, gimme your mail
4
22:23
@AndyProwl Yeah. I think you should really give the standard a try first.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Great, thanks for the advice
But I'll warn you that in print form it is massive.
Yeah, I've read >1k pages
Like, A4, 3.5 cm thick.
Well, that's how much my ignorance weighs
Gotta bear the burden
Btw how did you end up being an expert on this, pure interest or are you working on internationalization stuff?
22:25
It messes up my careful shelf layout.
@AndyProwl Pure interest at first, then I did some work with fonts and character classification.
@CatPlusPlus ok
@DeadMG hehe "about it"? Seems there is quite a lot of context missing.
Oh, wait: stylistic device. You purposely held a silence for ~5 minutes so as to illustrate that unnerving feeling when you skip some parts ("did I miss something"?)
@sehe No, my Internet dropped out.
Okay, I'll allow it.
FTR, "it" refers to speedreading by essentially not actually reading the whole thing.
22:29
@DeadMG I've come to expect you to classify about 99% of new information as irrelevant
@DeadMG Yeah, I got it. (I pointed out the messages were 5 minutes apart :))
right
Also, I'm becoming a much faster typist since I chat. And I also have a feeling this has to do with my increased ability to speed read.
Dunno how, but it seems related.
IMO stripping out things as irrelevant is one of the most important aspects of programming.
e.g. map, it's irrelevant to map what function you want to apply to each element.
Of course. It's what we often call/mislabel abstraction
22:32
@CatPlusPlus my username @ gmail
(that should have been in response to the message about Slack)
not sure why I can't edit it
that was quick
o.o
@AndyProwl It is though? Also I get it without looking at the linked one :v
That's what she said
We often say abstraction when really we say decoupling/isolating/untangling
@DeadMG I work fine in different modes :P
22:34
Okay, I'll say it. Unconference freaks me out. I'll just maintain that I won't have the time (which is true) so I don't have to decide :S
Xeo
Xeo
wusses
@CatPlusPlus Apparently my connection dropped for a while and the message was displayed as not linked
Now I see it linked
Damn it again
@R.MartinhoFernandes I seem to not have another mode.
My internet is broken
I'm so going to regret this.
22:36
hmm
break/continue annoy me.
Kill them
Replace them with goto
lol
@sehe I can't see what could possibly go wrong
22:38
Why don't you guys mail him?
Or me.
No need to splatter e-mails all over the room.
Speaking of, accept your invite Robot, I want to give you admin access
Xeo
Xeo
effort
I don't know how to email.
the star-baord is oversaturated by pinned stuff :(
22:39
@CatPlusPlus Done.
to be expected with Unconference coming up
11
Q: More Stars - Userscript that frees up room so you can see more starred messages

SternoSince I've never written a GreaseMonkey script before, I borrowed heavily from this script and basically played around with it until I got what I wanted. So credit to them for helping me get there. More Stars I don't like having my chat window fill the full monitor, but I found that with my pre...

@R.MartinhoFernandes that was funny
Should I pin that?
Pin everything
Pin is new star
22:40
@CatPlusPlus Done.
I gave you superpowers
Xeo
Xeo
... does Slack enforce lowercase names or something?
yes (it enforces something, so your predicate evaluates to yes)
I hate Prolog.
@Xeo Yes
They also do XMPP and IRC, so it's probably easier
I'll probably force lowercase usernames for the central auth (soon-ish :v) too, because every app ever has different rules
22:42
puppy
user1804599
ParisHilton.js - removes everything between the <head></head> tags.
user1804599
lol
So I met two of my flatmates in the hallway when I went to grab some tea and they were getting ready to go out. They wanted me to go out with them. I'm a bit tired and I suspect I won't finish watching the latest GoT episode before I fall asleep; I said I didn't feel like it. But she really wanted me to go so I compromised by promising I'd go out with them tomorrow. I just got fast-talked.
Future me is going to be upset.
@rightfold yeah. Because the js ecosystem wasn't already overwhelmed by witty project names (less, underbar, I'm so happy I don't have to remember that shit)
user1804599
I think you mean Underscore.
22:46
lowbar?
user1804599
prelude-ls > Underscore because currying.
There's a (better, of course) competitor library
@R.MartinhoFernandes Go for it:) On the earlier matter, maybe we should all meet up at the 'Sludge Pump' on Friday and swap numbers/email.
@rightfold I think the ice cube was cooler
the bar for the average project is definitely low
user1804599
22:46
@AndyProwl I don’t like this one either.
user1804599
Gonna pick a nice one tomorrow.
@rightfold I think my colleague mentioned it has currying too
/night all
user1804599
ls> [1 to 10] |> map (* 2) |> (.join ', ')
'2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20'
I can be contacted at:
http://hotelindigoberlin.com/alex/
22:52
@MartinJames you should join us slackers.
@MartinJames They usually go clubbing and I hate that shit. They know that, though, but it's that sort of "you just haven't been to the right places; we'll teach you" thing.
all clubs are basically identical as near as I can tell
they're all much too noisy crowded with strangers and nothing to do there except spend far too much money drinking too much
@DeadMG Is that a problem?
@MartinJames There are better places for drinking too much :P
@StackedCrooked OK, where you slackers going to?
22:54
berlin
give cat your email
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sure, and I expect you to list them:)
@StackedCrooked OK. I'll create and publish a 'burner' gmail address.
Xeo
Xeo
@MartinJames just send robot a text with your mail
It's always the same: every time I tell someone I don't like clubbing, someone comes back with "nah, you'll like this one", and then, of course, it shares all the characteristics that totally annoy me about clubs, starting with "I CAN'T HEAR MY OWN VOICE AND I AM SHOUTING"
@Xeo Oh yeah - even easier:)

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