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Xeo
2:00 PM
I missed the discussion, what's the problem?
whee, time to torture my PC again
 
@Xeo with?
 
Xeo
packaging Flash for iOS
 
@Xeo There's no discussion. I'm just mumbling along as I trace this.
 
Xeo
oh
what are the symptoms, then?
 
Implementation looks fine though :S
@Xeo It's calling myallocator::construct with invalid arguments.
myallocator::construct is optional and it should placement-new if the call is not well-formed.
 
Xeo
2:04 PM
hm
 
But the implementation is SFINAEing correctly on the call :/
 
Xeo
non-immediate context?
damn I need something to do while this stuff is packaging
 
Gaaaaaaaames.
 
Nah, it's the direct call that isn't well-formed.
There are only two overloads, and neither of them matches.
That's a soft error.
 
@Xeo watch futurama
 
2:07 PM
I can add an overload that matches and placement-news, but that should come free and anyway, if I do I get a segfault.
 
I like how github.com/ginatrapani/todo.txt-cli/wiki/The-Todo.txt-Format starts with "plain text was chosen, because it is unstructured!" and then goes on defining rules for structuring the file.
 
user1804599
lol
 
libstdc++ uses a similar test (except enable_if instead of tag dispatch).
gcc + libstdc++, or clang + libstdc++ both work; clang + libc++ either fails overload resolution or blows up on deallocation if I add the catchall overload.
 
Xeo
That doesn't sound like fun
 
2:16 PM
@Xeo The weirdest part is that on the bug report, the reporter claims it only works with libc++.
The reporter is one of my coworkers, but he's not in the office today :S
 
Xeo
lol
 
I'm fixing a bug in Eigen. Or in libc++. Or whatever.
 
I just got an email this morning that read "Ludia is hiring!"
And I was like "no shit, Sherlock".
 
@EtiennedeMartel Don't you work there already?
Or is this just a thinly veiled marketing ploy?
 
Did the email offer you a job?
 
2:18 PM
An excuse to mention it just one more time.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, but it's to remind me that refering someone can net me between 500$ to 1000$.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Eigen is not from you guys, right?
 
@Xeo Right. It's open-source.
But we use it and this bug is hurting us.
 
Hmm, I could win a PS4 as well...
 
SAM
@Xeo Here's a dumb question from me again!
I want no more ubuntu... which distro would you recommend for beginner like me?
 
2:19 PM
Don't listen to rightfold.
11
 
Xeo
haha
 
(It would help if you mentioned why you don't want Ubuntu no more)
 
@SAM Ubuntu or Mint
 
SAM
because of the ubuntu repo...
it's horribly late...
it has GCC4.6
 
Hmm, I fixed it.
 
SAM
2:20 PM
with very less C++11 support
 
@SAM Use a PPA.
 
Xeo
You can build stuff yourself. Or do what the robot says.
 
SAM
@Xeo that's where I suck
do you know any tutorial on the net that explains that?
 
Xeo
well... changing distro won't really help with that (acquiring stuff they don't have in repos)
 
SAM
I tried a ppa yesterday and now Ubuntu is sucking
dunnow what happened
 
2:23 PM
Debian is fairly easy if you're used to Ubuntu
 
user1804599
Install Gentoo.
 
Xeo
3 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Don't listen to rightfold.
3
 
SAM
lol
 
Xeo
Also not to not-rightfold.
 
user1804599
Install Gentoo anyway.
 
2:23 PM
@not-rightfold I knew it.
 
user1804599
@R.MartinhoFernandes Me too.
 
Ell
@SAM building gcc isn't particularly difficult
or clang
what bit can't you do?
 
JBL
@SAM Why switching distro instead of fixing it ?
 
SAM
i tried that too but finished with errors
 
Xeo
Well, fixing errors is a programmers job
 
user1804599
2:24 PM
s/fixing/introducing/
 
Notice that there are two concepts, that sound similar, but are vastly different: unnamed structs and anonymous structs. The first is this one, which C++ supports: struct { int i; } a; a.i = 0; (the type has no name). The second is this one, which C++ does not support: struct { int i; }; i = 0; (the type has no name, and it escapes into the surrounding scope). C++, however, does support both unnamed and anonymous unions. — Johannes Schaub - litb Feb 12 '10 at 18:39
mind = blown
 
JBL
Although I'd admit that sometime, fixing broken things might be a nightmare.
 
Xeo
@FredOverflow Aw, I'd have thought that an anonymous struct would be f(struct{ .i = 0 }) :<
 
SAM
@JBL to have latest ones through the package manager
 
2:26 PM
That won't happen.
(FWIW Gentoo is very very conservative)
 
@EtiennedeMartel At least you didn't get it right after being laid off!
 
Xeo
Same goes for Debian
 
@JerryCoffin Indeed.
 
Gentoo repos are at 4.6.
 
Xeo
Debian was at 4.4.1, last I checked
Which is, admittedly, a long time ago
 
2:27 PM
Another reason to hate Gentoo.
 
@EtiennedeMartel What?
 
Making ebuilds use higher upstream version is trivial.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes So it's a very bad fit for @not-rightfold
 
Usually you just need to change the name.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Old GCC.
(Look I'm just looking for reasons to diss Gentoo)
 
Ell
2:27 PM
Do you guys have a specific branch for "playing around" in? For example, if I'm testing out different designs of classes/etc. which will probably be changed, should I still use the vcs?
 
Xeo
yes
 
@Ell yes and yes.
 
@Ell What if they aren't?
@CatPlusPlus Everything above 4.6 is masked.
 
4.6 is just marked as stable, and newer ones are masked.
 
SAM
2:28 PM
Can any body tell me where to learn to build these on our own?
 
Unmasking is not very hard.
Hell, I never use Gentoo with masked ~amd64/x86 :v
 
@Ell Playing around without a VCS never gets much beyond playing around. Tracking what you tried, what worked, what didn't, why it didn't, etc., is what turns playing around into actual experimentation that can produce meaningful results.
 
Ran a server like that and had no issues, either.
 
SAM
I also try to fix errors but sometimes I don't understand what the error says...
Googling such errors doesn't help always :(
 
They're probably just playing safe for the dumber users.
 
2:30 PM
@CatPlusPlus Anecdotal! (Don't worry, I do the same)
 
@Xeo debian wheezy uses gcc 4.7
 
Of course it's anecdotal.
 
don't mind me if that wasn't the question
 
Btw, @SAM latest Ubuntu ships 4.7.
 
Xeo
@MarcClaesen Ah, cool. As I said, I last checked a long time ago
 
2:31 PM
@CatPlusPlus You can always grab a gcc-9999 ebuild out there and have fun suffer :P
Hmm, I fixed the bug.
Well, made it go away.
 
@Xeo debian releases are usually outdated before they even go live, so it's a logical assumption :)
 
Also Portage slots are awesome.
 
But the code should work as was before I worked around it.
 
SAM
ok in which directory do you guys generally install theme through sources?
 
Portage is easily my favourite Linux package manager.
 
2:32 PM
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, tis awesome.
 
I should finally take a look at Funtoo.
 
is there any IDE that you can program in C++, on a android tablet?
 
Why the hell would you want to do that?
 
Xeo
"Your application is attempting to run uncompiled ActionScript..." - thx AIR, now please tell me where the fuck that's supposed to be happening. :|
 
(Also no)
 
2:34 PM
@JonyKale I suppose you could run Eclipse, if you were masochistic enough.
 
cause I am bored sometimes, and have no PC on the same time and feeling like programming.
 
Self-defeating personality disorder (also known as masochistic personality disorder) is a proposed personality disorder. It was discussed in an appendix of the manual's revised third edition (DSM-III-R) in 1987, but was never formally admitted into the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). As an alternative, the diagnosis personality disorder not otherwise specified may be used instead. Some researchers and theorists continue to use its criteria. It has an official code number, 301.90. Diagnosis Definition proposed in DSM III-R for further review Self-defeating p...
 
@JerryCoffin Nah, not enough memory.
 
Xeo
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━ɥsɐʃℲ━┻
 
Also all the other reasons.
 
2:36 PM
@JonyKale ssh + vim + gcc!
 
@JonyKale Visual Studio.
Oh, wait, do you mean on an Android tablet?
 
Thanks
 
Like, run the IDE on there?
 
Laptops are hard.
 
Xeo
There's that C4Droid thing
 
2:37 PM
@Xeo Is that a type of explosive?
 
@EtiennedeMartel a droid that explodes
 
Don't look at me.
 
(From battery overheat)
 
@EtiennedeMartel Explosive Kit Kats.
 
SAM
2:38 PM
what about arch linux?
 
@CatPlusPlus Some have a gig of RAM. I haven't tried it, but it seems like that should be enough (probably slower than usual, but would still work if you were patient enough).
 
@JerryCoffin 1GB total, not per VM. We've been through this.
 
haha 1gig.
 
(Also so not enough)
 
Of those, you get a few hundred megs at best.
 
2:39 PM
@CatPlusPlus Has somebody actually tested, or has it been a purely intellectual exercise about how things should (not) work?
 
This discussion makes me gigagle.
 
@JerryCoffin It's a well documented limit. The JVMs get heaps much smaller than 1GB.
 
@JerryCoffin I've hit the VM limit.
 
Dunno if that's enough for Eclipse, but you surely don't get 1GB.
Unless you rewrite Eclipse to do weird stuff.
 
It's 32 or 64MB by standard on very newest devices.
 
2:41 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I certainly wouldn't expect the heap to occupy all RAM. At the same time, I don't think a gig should be necessary for an IDE.
 
Also Eclipse would need activity-based control/UI.
 
@JerryCoffin The point is that it is not even close.
 
I haven't seen an IDE that can run below 1GB.
 
user784668
lol
 
user784668
TIL that Emacs has no bugtracker.
 
Ell
2:42 PM
@JonyKale I sometimes write c++ with DroidEdit
without compiling it
 
@Fanael No bugs. :smug:
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus Emacs!
 
Ell
I thought emacs was a text editor o.O
 
user1804599
I thought o.O was a text editor emacs
 
@CatPlusPlus I've used Visual Studio in 8 megs of RAM.
 
2:43 PM
@Ell you did?
 
You can request a large heap in the manifest, and that nets you something like a whopping 128MB.
 
Emacs is an application framework with p good text editor built-in.
 
user784668
@Ell It's an Emacs Lisp interpreter.
 
user784668
@Ell Evil is its text editor.
 
@JerryCoffin 1980s don't count.
 
2:43 PM
Early 90s also don't count.
 
@CatPlusPlus That was (early) 1990s. :-)
@StackedCrooked Damn!
 
Close enough.
 
user784668
@JerryCoffin ha ha ha, ninja'd.
 
Ell
Okay now I'm thoroughly confused
 
2:44 PM
Early 90s is not too far from late 80s SO THERE YOU GO
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked However you managed to ninja that
 
Precognition.
 
I can't believe we finally have template aliases ^_^
 
He's memorised Visual Studio release dates, and waited for years for this opportunity to arrive.
 
@melak47 I can't believe we didn't have them before.
@CatPlusPlus Like a true evil mastermind.
 
2:46 PM
Somebody posted "nathaly" as feedback on Coliru.
Not sure what to make of that.
 
user1804599
She wants to have sex with you.
 
@melak47 Waiiit. That means VS2013 might be a viable target for ogonek.
Does it have decent SFINAE?
TEST IT, BITCH.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes how :D
 
Xeo
Robot smelled blood.
 
Last I've seen VS2013 had broken everything.
 
2:47 PM
@CatPlusPlus ?
 
@CatPlusPlus There's an RC out now.
 
Oh, right, I've seen that in my feed.
I should install .NET 4.5.1 RC.
 
@CatPlusPlus Is Roslyn out already?
 
user784668
@R.MartinhoFernandes RC as in Rarely Crashes?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes vOv
I don't follow that.
> Microsoft "Roslyn" September 2012 CTP
Apparently not.
 
2:49 PM
@Fanael Really Candidate
 
JBL
Or Roughly Correct.
No wait.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes how do I test for decent SFINAE?
 
user784668
@JBL lol, it's VS we're talking about
 
JBL
24 secs ago, by JBL
No wait.
I downloaded the 2013' RC but I don't know if I should use it...
 
user784668
Don't.
 
user784668
2:51 PM
Use GCC.
 
user784668
VS still has no C++ support.
 
@Fanael dafuq do you mean by that?
 
Xeo
Aw, I thought you wanted expression SFINAE :(
 
user1804599
Woohoo.
 
2:53 PM
error C2668: 'f' : ambiguous call to overloaded function :E
 
user1804599
Almost five o’clock.
 
@Xeo Wasn't that there before?
 
Xeo
Broken
 
Oh gawd.
> This fork is 1 commit behind eigen/eigen.
 
Xeo
@not-rightfold remove enabler / replace with int and try with = 0
 
2:55 PM
Godammit, I just forked that 2 hours ago.
 
> could be 'void f<int,>(T)' with [T=int], or 'void f<int,>(T)' with [T=int]
....I, see...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Rebase
 
I put up with that for clang for a while, I guess I could for MSVC too.
 
> main.cpp(11): fatal error C1001: An internal error has occurred in the compiler.
:D
just keeps getting better
 
2:58 PM
lol
K, nope.
 
Xeo
file a bug report
 
user1804599
@Xeo Hmm. I think that doesn't remove the "almost".
 
Xeo
aw crap
whatever
 
std::is_integral<T>> = 0 what does this do? o.O
 
user784668
@melak47 Syntax errors.
 
3:00 PM
@melak47 EnableIf<whatever> is always int, so it declares a int = 0 template parameter.
 
oh, missed those template brackets
compiler file 'f:\dd\vctools\compiler\cxxfe\sl\p1\c\convert.cpp', line 10610
is the source of the ICE, apparently
 
Btw, does auto f() { return g(x); } sfinae on the g(x) call?
Make it template <typename T> auto f(T x) { return g(x); }
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes It has to, no?
 
@Xeo Could be a hard error (dumbasses).
Some shit like "cannot infer type" or something.
 
Xeo
Thinking about it though, return []{ /* hello generic expression tester... */ }; ...
although I'd hope that results in a hard error
 
3:08 PM
@Xeo No template, no SFINAE.
 
lol my template abomination got 9 upvotes xD
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Imagine a template around that
template<class T>
auto f(T x){ return [=]{ x += 5; }; }
 
Lambdas are not allowed in decltype, so I have no idea.
 
Xeo
That's the issue I'm thinking of
 
oh shit did anyone watch the last BB episode?
 
3:16 PM
I'm certain there are people who did.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes if I add some typename = , and remove those ... (what are they doing there? o.O) it seems to work...
 
@melak47 Not good enough.
See what Xeo linked :)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes speaking of your blog, when's your next post due? ;)
 
Xeo
Yesterday evening
 
3:25 PM
The last post at the top of the page is from you? or did i miss something
 
Xeo
there are different categories
scroll down
 
Paypal has started flooding me with offers and shit.
 
Paypal has finally changed my account to Germany.
 
@Xeo Ohhh thanks :)
 
@Borgleader General rss here: flamingdangerzone.com/rss.xml
Why no browser pops up an RSS icon by default any more, I have no fucking idea, but it's stupid as fuck.
 
3:28 PM
Nice, added you to feedreader
 
Fuck Google.
Seriously, why is this thing not in core addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/rss-icon, but the the rest of the damn RSS support is?
Ugh, check out new asylum proposal.
 
Xeo
Do I want to?
Boost.CallTraits? (guessing from the title)
 
Someone that does not know perfect forwarding :/
> std::sink<T> to efficiently pass `sink` arguments
 
I had never heard the expression sink arguments before GN2013
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes inb4 "(virtual) interfaces!"
 
3:37 PM
Also, fuck, I failed.
 
Xeo
?
 
I replied to someone that is not Ville or Nicol in the Asylum.
 
Xeo
oops
 
Nevin and few other less frequent denizens are ok too, but those two are the most frequent of the sane ones.
 
Are you referring to the twitter account?
 
3:39 PM
@Borgleader No, to the actual Asylum.
 
Xeo
Anyways, time to get my ass home
 
I told myself I should just stop talking to the inmates altogether and only reply to the staff.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes how about a compromise...keep the ::value cruft, but get rid of the typename = ? :3
 
@melak47 That works?
 
with your = 0 alternative version :3
 
3:41 PM
That's... acceptable.
WTF
@melak47 What if you add another level of indirection? coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/3f84979bc320e4f5
 
still works :o
 
so...circumvent the ICE by making the code more complex, not less. ok.
 
hehe
So truly the only thing we give up is the ..., which I have put up with for clang before.
(Or does this last version work with dots?)
 
doesn't look like it
 
3:56 PM
@Xeo more windoze updeeds?
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
@melak47 Lessons learned from dealing with GCC.
 
Xeo
@sehe Packaging Flash shit for iOS
 
errr that's gonna hurt
 
user1804599
Today was a beautiful day.
 
These computers have so much more freedom than high school lol
 
@chris You're a grown up, now.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes They just know how to secure them properly (I hope).
 
@EtiennedeMartel lol, "Blingons"
 
SAM
make[5]: *** [_muldi3.o] Error 1
make[5]: Leaving directory `/home/sam/Packages/gcc/buildgcc/objdir/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/32/libgcc'
make[4]: *** [multi-do] Error 1
make[4]: Leaving directory `/home/sam/Packages/gcc/buildgcc/objdir/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/libgcc'
make[3]: *** [all-multi] Error 2
make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/sam/Packages/gcc/buildgcc/objdir/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/libgcc'
make[2]: *** [all-stage1-target-libgcc] Error 2
make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/sam/Packages/gcc/buildgcc/objdir'
God dislikes me :( :( :(
2
 
4:30 PM
Who flagged that?
 
Ell
@SAM She dislikes everyone
 
@SAM unknown ?
@R.MartinhoFernandes flagged what?
 
SAM
^ what?
 
what the hell is /x86_64-unknown~
 
Ell
I see so many "CNC" programming jobs o.O
 
4:32 PM
What's that?
 
Ell
I'm not sure
I think it's some kind of machinery
 
I think its related to CAD
 
Ell
Numerical control (NC) is the automation of machine tools that are operated by abstractly programmed commands encoded on a storage medium, as opposed to controlled manually via handwheels or levers, or mechanically automated via cams alone. Most NC today is computer numerical control (CNC), in which computers play an integral part of the control. In modern CNC systems, end-to-end component design is highly automated using computer-aided design (CAD) and computer-aided manufacturing (CAM) programs. The programs produce a computer file that is interpreted to extract the commands needed to...
 
Xeo
Why the fuck are there even validations for this flag?
> If that's the case, it's even worse than the n^2 constructor problem.
Stupid google groups not wanting to accept my ctrl-c
 
Xeo
4:40 PM
variant<T const&, T&&>, meh
 
Xeo
Is basically what this in thing he's linking to is
 
Xeo
except it relies on const_cast
 
I like how it doesn't really reduce duplication.
It just moves it to the bodies of ifs.
(see following slides)
 
4:42 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes so, are variadic templates broken? I mean this doesn't even work without all the fancy aliases...
template <typename T,
    typename std::enable_if<!std::is_integral<T>::value>::type...>
    void f(T);
 
Why can't ISPs have decent websites with some sort of Contact feature?
 
Also, cool, someone reddited my latest post.
 
Xeo
mttd?
 
@melak47 Does it crash or something? Or call it ambiguous?
If it calls it ambiguous, that's the same bug clang had (has?).
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ambiguous, so the supposedly disabled void f(T) still gets declared, right?
 
4:43 PM
Their SFINAE algorithm does not perform substitution on empty packs.
3
Q: Is substitution performed on a variadic parameter pack type if the pack is empty?

R. Martinho FernandesConsider the following program: #include <type_traits> enum class dummy {}; template <typename T> using EnableIf = typename std::enable_if<T::value, dummy>::type; template <typename T> using DisableIf = typename std::enable_if<!T::value, dummy>::type; template <typename T> struct dependent_tru...

 
how'd you work around it for clang? with the defaulted argument?
 
@melak47 Yes.
 

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