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3:13 AM
@Undo How many moderators are selected?
I voted for you and at this point you're number 3, does this mean you're in?
 
@davejal right now this is just the primary phase of the election. After this phase the top 10 candidates by score will advance to the actual election phase where you will cast your final vote. 3 moderators will be selected then :)
 
3:51 AM
Theory: Use of smilies is highly correlated with primary score.
 
Oh? More smilies means a higher or lower score?
 
@Andy That is what is to be determined.
 
4:29 AM
@davejal Yep, what Seth said. The top 10 candidates from this phase go on to the next phase, then you'll choose your top 3 candidates. We'll use STV to determine who wins.
And thank you for your vote! :)
 
Howdy, y'all
 
Hi @EdCottrell
 
@Undo Remind me where you are - east coast USA, right?
 
@EdCottrell Northwest.
You're close ;)
Why?
 
@Undo "Close" = +/- 3k miles... :)
Just curious.
I know some of the candidates are on the other side of the ball.
 
4:38 AM
@EdCottrell I hope we get at least one in a non-USA timezone
 
I love the northwest US.
@Undo That would be good. We could always use more people in the US night hours.
 
That said, I tend to put less emphasis on timezone
 
@Undo Yeah, same.
 
I'd really like to see @MadaraUchiha win, partially because of timezone and mostly because he's all-around awesome.
 
@Undo He would definitely be good. Once again, the problem is too many qualified candidates.
 
5:05 AM
in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, yesterday, by Andrew T.
It's popularity contest, in the end.
in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, yesterday, by Shog9
pretty much all the way through, really
 
5:56 AM
Good Morning guys
@minitech did you script stop? my count does not match
 
 
3 hours later…
8:37 AM
It seems that some candidates are controversy
 
Salutations!
 
greetings!
not sure how that double posted - v. weird
 
 
2 hours later…
11:09 AM
hey @EdCottrell
 
 
1 hour later…
12:27 PM
@rekire howdy! Caught me sleeping again.
 
Gidday Ed! Talking about sleep, I'm about to go do that - it's awful quiet in here.
 
meow
 
@EdCottrell I guess your computer woke up from standby or something like that. you where displayed as active in chat
 
1:01 PM
@rekire huh. No, just got up a bit ago.
 
strange :/
 
1:29 PM
Morning, all
 
Morning
 
1:59 PM
hey all
 
Hi Jon!
 
Good morning!
 
Morning Ed
 
Hey @JonClements
Whoa, sorry, @JonEricson. That was bad timing on my part
 
Us @Jon's are use to it - aren't we @Jon :p
 
2:25 PM
@EdCottrell now you reached 10k
 
@rekire So I did. :) I'm blown away by this.
 
@EdCottrell hopefully your 4th blog post re: SO elections this year is going to be a "Hey Guys! Thanks!" :p
 
@JonClements at-"and" is a triple ping in this room :D
 
@JonClements Thanks. <crosses fingers>
 
@JonClements <3
 
2:28 PM
What I'm finding interesting is how much last time the top 10 were splitting votes so much for whatever reasons
@SterlingArcher You should be pleased with your first run out
 
I very much am :) I've gotten good insight on personal conductivity, how I should better behave, and things to improve on in the community.
I'd say that's a win in my books.
 
A great attitude to take good sir!
 
:D
Never year I'll run as Barry. Is that how you win an election, Barry? Yes it is, other Barry. Yes it is.
 
(hint: ninja costumes appear to work!)
 
@SterlingArcher bruh.. krieger clone army votes.
you could have had this in the bag
 
2:32 PM
Vampires!
 
@JonClements Man, should have ninja'd my profile pic
 
@josilber that hoodie.. is that from Boston U ??
 
@rlemon Nope -- it's for the Baltimore Ravens
 
ahh
I knew I had seen it
 
I grew up near Baltimore and lived near there until pretty recently
 
2:35 PM
for a good like 15 seconds I thought it was also the Laurier Golden Hawks logo
which is from a local university (for me)
 
yo' @rlemon
 
yo
 
I was in baltimore a couple weekends ago. I live just south of DC
 
@SterlingArcher Ah, cool!
 
3:12 PM
@rekire Still looks right from here. It doesn’t reconnect automatically, though, so you might have to refresh if you disconnected at some point.
Oh, and note that it only refreshes an individual user every 3 minutes.
 
@minitech in the meantime the data valid again
that might explain it, but I guess there was difference of about 100 votes which would be multiple hours out of my calculations
never mind it works for now :)
 
3:45 PM
Hey @josilber - you're over 8k.
 
@EdCottrell Awesome! I found it pretty addicting to watch the numbers keep changing so I ended up closing the monitors :)
 
Voting seems to have leveled off
Last 16 hours ^
 
@josilber Yeah, it is a huge time suck. All of my commit messages this week are going to include the line "Blame @JasonC and @Undo"
2
 
I.. I could always write a bot that just pings you in here every time your position changes
3
 
4:01 PM
@rlemon :)
 
I've been working on making a slick d3.js visualization of candidate stats, so hopefully I'll have a link soon to further suck everybody's time (and possibly crash the questionable MIT webserver I use for hosting).
 
I think we all know the real close neck race here
 
@rlemon I get the impression that we'd hear about that even without a bot...
 
It's obviously the neck and neck run I have had with bjb fir 4th to last xD
 
@josilber You definitely need to crash a university server. Do it for SO.
 
4:09 PM
@Undo great graphs you you increase the hight of the graph? some details are hard to see
 
@rekire I can try, just a sec
 
did you notice my one?
 
Yep, saw that
Interesting correlation
 
@Undo that graph looks now like an open book :D thx
 
Anytime ;)
 
4:26 PM
Two simultaneous ties.
 
4:41 PM
Oh man, it's heated race
 
it is funny to know that Johnny Bones and bjb568 have less votes in total than Ty221. You can see this nicely here: ohara.me/primary
 
@rekire Not sure how I missed that previously. That's a nice visualization.
 
4:56 PM
@EdCottrell - You are clearly loved out there. :)
 
@VinodMadyalkar Apparently! I'm stunned.
@VinodMadyalkar You're doing pretty well.
 
Wow, I hadn't seen @minitech's graph thing yet. Nice work.
 
@EdCottrell - I guess the fact that you are a mod on ebooks seems to be working for you :). Good to have a mod who already has some exp
Ya. I think I am doing OK
 
@VinodMadyalkar Having prior moderator experience is very helpful, yes.
 
^
 
5:01 PM
@VinodMadyalkar You'll definitely be in the final.
@VinodMadyalkar I do think it helps. I'm still terrified of the flag queue on SO due to its size, but knowing how to use it makes it much less intimidating.
 
@Undo - Yes. It does
@EdCottrell - Hopefully. How is the traffic on ebboks now-a-days?
 
@EdCottrell I'm a little frightened of it too, but prior experience and knowing that you're on a team of people is comforting.
 
@EdCottrell I wrote it while you slept
bye guys see ya tomorrow
 
@rekire Later.
@Undo This.
 
Also, you're not expected to clear out the whole thing on your own on day one. That helps too.
On my other two sites, I actually find myself wishing there was more to do, so I actually think I would find the big queue a little fun
 
5:05 PM
@VinodMadyalkar Somewhat low, but steady. We're getting good questions, just not quite at the rate we'd like to see. And the abuse has, thankfully, been relatively limited.
@Undo Yeah, I do think it would be fun to take a chain saw to some of the garbage. Raising flags is not nearly as satisfying as destroying the worst of the junk.
 
Best wording I've seen ;)
 
Nice. I haven't come across those lovely "spa" and "body lotion" ads on SO for some days now. Looks like spam bots don't like us :P
 
@VinodMadyalkar Oh, we get plenty of spam. We're just good enough at killing it fast that most people don't ever see it
 
@VinodMadyalkar Oh, they're there. Seems like they mostly show up in the evening and super-early-morning hours, US time.
 
5:08 PM
@Undo Yep. Most of it lives only a couple of minutes, tops.
 
Oh. lol
 
And of course the standard keyboard mashes
 
@M.B.Asfour Hi!
 
i have some questions
well
in my time in so
 
5:09 PM
@M.B.Asfour Ask away
 
fire away
 
since 3 years
i've been banned from asking questions twice
for what's called
Not a Good question
Well the thing is
The second time it was a rush decision
how can you help prevent this tush decisions?
 
@M.B.Asfour Can you link to an example?
 
By asking better questions?
 
@M.B.Asfour You do know that question blocks are automated and moderators have nothing to do with them?
2
 
5:12 PM
i know
 
Really, though, the automated question blocks are out of a moderator's purview. That's a system thing.
 
So why are you asking that?
 
I was looking at your profile @M.B.Asfour . I believe all the so called "bad questions" are deleted?
 
I don't see any bad questions on your profile, have you deleted them?
 
but the moderators r the ones who rushed and gave me down votes
 
5:13 PM
@M.B.Asfour and you also know that moderators don't also rush into decisions (except red emergency situations)
 
without even considering asking for more clarity
 
@M.B.Asfour how do you even know moderators downvoted you?
 
@M.B.Asfour Were they moderators (with a ♦) or just normal users?
 
@M.B.Asfour I think you are confusing moderators (diamond elected mods) with normal users
 
@und
@Undo i can't tell now
 
5:14 PM
@M.B.Asfour - Usually mods don't give downvotes. They just close / delete bad questions :)
 
because the question is deleted
Ok i maybe mistaken
 
@M.B.Asfour non-diamond moderators can delete things too, you know :)
 
the thing i want to know
What are you going to do to make the rules more clear?
 
@VinodMadyalkar What? Downvotes are still an integral part of the moderation system, even if you have the power to unilaterally delete.
 
80
Q: Our words are too complicated. Let's make them simpler!

Undo TL;DR: Our wording is complex, and hard for people from other languages to read. Let's make it simpler. Seriously, though, at least read my example at the bottom. For a long time, I've noticed a trend: People from certain countries (which I will refer to, collectively, as Elbonia) seem ...

 
5:15 PM
@Undo: your time to shine :3
 
^ I do think this is a problem, and we can solve it.
 
...and beaten to it
 
and what are you going to do to prevent mass down voting questions?
to the point where people can't ask anymore
 
The problem is with the quality level, not the downvotes.
 
I'd personally remove the [php] tag
 
5:16 PM
@M.B.Asfour moderators have no control over how users vote
2
 
@bjb568 - I am nt saying they aren't. I am merely saying that if you are going to delete a question as a mod, then you aren't probably going to DV it :)
 
@M.B.Asfour That's not really in a moderator's purview.
 
i really know
 
-24
Q: How can we discourage over-downvoting on questions?

bjb568Some people go a bit over the top downvoting… It isn't exactly welcoming to new users. My process is this: Is it a good question? Upvote. If not: Spam? Flag. Otherwise: Very obviously bad? …Are you sure? Ok, GOTO 5. Otherwise: Looks hard to answer (code-wall, terrible formatting, etc.)? Leave a...

I do sympathize somewhat with you.
 
there is this problem with a lot of users rushing into down voting any question they don't like
 
5:17 PM
Down voting is a core part of the moderation system. I do agree that pile-on downovtes aren't helpful.
 
@VinodMadyalkar There's a lot of bad questions that for which deleting would be inappropriate.
 
@M.B.Asfour People are supposed to down vote unhelpful questions, not just questions they don't like. For the most people, people do well at that.
 
But there's not really much we can do about it. Users are free to express their thoughts - and it's really up to the asker to make sure their question is high quality before posting it.
 
@M.B.Asfour That's exactly the point of downvoting.
 
@bjb568 - Ya. Then a DV would be of use
 
5:18 PM
and this is really making it difficult to ask or contribute
 
@M.B.Asfour It's not hard if you take the time to contribute quality content.
 
well
i'm trying
 
Everybody started out at 1 rep. But some people are able to progress because they adapt.
 
but this method of tough love
 
If you take 10, 15 minutes to really think about your question before hitting post, then it'll be received fairly well. (even if it needs edits)
 
5:19 PM
is not helping
 
It's when people copy-paste their IDE into a page on SO and go "fix this please", then it gets DVed to oblivion
 
Remember, the system is impersonal. You need to do what will be best for the community.
 
I'm not a native English speaker
 
@M.B.Asfour Cases exactly like yours are why I think we need to simplify our wording
 
sometimes it not easy to express what i need exactly
 
5:20 PM
Our system can be strange and off-putting to people from different languages and cultures. I'd like to help fix that.
 
thanks @Undo
 
@M.B.Asfour - Well, I agree people have to be somewhat patient and not rush into down-voting / closing. But then again, mods won't have control over such things. You should keep trying. I've been on the receiving side as well. A good post will always be appreciated.
 
I love so
I'm trying to post good questions
 
@VinodMadyalkar I don't agree. You can and should rush downvoting and closing, that's what the reopen system is for. Vote early, vote often.
The reality of the matter is most questions aren't improved and don't need love from the community since they don't get it from the OPs.
 
but there is a need for more clear and simpler rules
 
5:23 PM
@M.B.Asfour Keep in mind that everyone gets down votes sometimes. Literally everyone. Just keep working at it! :)
 
Certainly. I never liked how you click thru a page of blabber and are presented with an empty textbox to put whatever you like. There should be more guidance in the asking system.
 
but closing a questions without mentioning what i could do to prevent this is not good
 
@bjb568 - I respectfully disagree. You should give people some time to edit questions. If they don't revert back / edit their post, then yes, we should delete / close them. But give people atleast some time to change their post.
 
@M.B.Asfour Usually the close vote reason itself should help.
@VinodMadyalkar It doesn't scale.
 
@M.B.Asfour If I can ask you a few questions - was there anything in particular you found hard to understand?
 
5:24 PM
@bjb568 so, I used to be soft on users too, and I followed an algorithm much like yours. The problem is that it just doesn't scale. Giving tender love and care to every single question for every single user sucks up a lot of time and energy. It's just easier to go straight to downvoting and move on. Stack Overflow gets 8000 questions per day. Being soft just doesn't scale :PCupcake May 2 '14 at 7:16
 
@bjb568 - Thats problem for the mods. frankly, if you are a mod, then you will need patience.
 
@VinodMadyalkar Moderators need patience, yes, but we also can't afford to let bad content sit around the site. Closing is reversible, and we need to rely on that system to handle the rare cases where the question is improved.
 
@vinod thank you
that's right
you need to be patient
as a mod
 
@VinodMadyalkar patience is not inaction
 
@bjb568 This. We should be patient and polite with the user, but at the same time look out for the goals of the site.
 
5:27 PM
I suggest something like 'safety time'
 
Usually, that means closing a question and leaving a comment about how it should be improved.
 
for each question
 
@M.B.Asfour That's the time before you click "post your question" :)
 
No votes the mod see it and decide what need to be done
 
@M.B.Asfour We get far too many questions each and every day to have moderators review them as they come in
 
5:28 PM
mark as duplicate or close
ore need to edit
 
@M.B.Asfour That's kind of the idea of Shog's revamped first posts queue.
 
@Undo hmmm you're right
but i think we really need a better solution
what the mods and SO owners can do for this
 
@M.B.Asfour We do. I'm always thinking of ideas for how we can improve moderation, both for the site and for the end user. It's a difficult problem, though - especially when you're getting >8,000 questions every day
 
@bjb568 - Our goal is to make this community better. If we don't have time to handle posts properly, then get more mods :)
 
@VinodMadyalkar There are a few problems with that idea, though - simply adding more moderators to the system doesn't scale well. It's hard to communicate in a team that large.
 
5:31 PM
@VinodMadyalkar Mods don't do much processing of posts (if without exceptional circumstances, i.e. custom flag), that's handled by the community itself.
 
@VinodMadyalkar i agree with you more mods and better automated mods
 
Tho I do think the rep system for mod powers is kind of convoluted. 10k, 20k, and maybe even 3k or review privs can be given to lower rep users who have demonstrated modding potential.
 
@Undo, @bjb568 - Yes, this is what I am talking about. People pouncing like coyotes on rabbits to close questions down. This should not happen. Reasons could be different / irrelevant but what's not fair isn't fair
right?
 
@VinodMadyalkar well, that's exactly what should happen to bad questions…
 
@bjb568 - Yes. To bad questions.
 
5:34 PM
We changed 'closed' to 'on hold' to communicate that idea - if a user edits their question, it can be reopened (and that happens fairly often, actually).
 
I don't think good questions are being downvoted and closed unfairly.
 
@bjb568 - Sometimes they are
 
Do you have any specific examples of this?
 
You can always point to examples of the system not working, but those examples are vastly outweighed by those where the system works perfectly. We just don't notice it when it works, which is exactly what should happen.
 
hint: I'm thinking that Vinod doesn't actually have examples and that's why I asked him
hint: that's because this discussion already happened with me on the other side over at here
 
5:37 PM
@bjb568 - This is where you need to have patience my friend :P
 
Well, I'd be delighted to find your one example and upvote and edit it to fix 100% of the problem :p
 
sometimes the question get voted and closed within seconds
and even deleted
 
Well, with the action of a minimum of 8 reviewers, I don't think that's a mistake.
 
@M.B.Asfour any real examples?
 
Not a really bad question
 
5:39 PM
@VinodMadyalkar That's a pretty terrible question
 
@VinodMadyalkar It's not really asking anything specifically.
 
There's no problem statement
 
The OP just didn't know how to put it
 
What should we answer? Does it even work currently?
If so: what needs to be improved? (see CR); if not: what's wrong?
 
> Please improve my answer. I really need this one.
sigh
 
5:40 PM
@Undo , @bjb568 - See the comments
Some patience and you can understand what the OP wants
 
I agree with Vinod. Moderation is definitely a game of patience.
 
It's a game of patience, definitely.
@VinodMadyalkar I have
 
If that little big of extra time to comment changes just one noob into a good poster, you've done a good job; moderator or not.
 
We are really scaring away new users by not giving them enough time to adapt to SO / SE
 
Granted some simply don't care ^
 
5:43 PM
@VinodMadyalkar I believe that can be fixed through other means - making our rules clear before a user posts a question
 
There's a difference between genuine attempt to edit/post quality after bad results, vs consistant shitposting.
 
But if you're saying you would reopen such questions as a moderator... I can't support that.
 
@Undo - Agreed
 
@VinodMadyalkar The comments cover a two hour period of time - for 1 user. How do you scale that time commitment to all of the 1 rep users SO gets daily?
 
@Undo - No I wouldn't do that
 
5:44 PM
@Andy ^
 
What @Andy said. I'd love to be able to do that for every question that comes through... but it simply doesn't scale.
Also, that's not something you need to be a moderator to do.
 
^^^^^^
 
@Andy - I agree, this one did stretch for quote some time. And we can't give people so much time. But you get the idea. With patience we can deal with some things
 
Back on the topic of the election itself... @Undo, your Q&A post is killing it.
 
The community has a larger hand in that than moderators do.
 
5:45 PM
@EdCottrell I noticed, thanks!
Moderators are janitors, not doormen.
 
This isn't good will hunting :P
 
Some people take it on themselves to help these new users through the process of asking a question here. I've done it a few times, and I realize how hard and often thankless it is. They have my undying respect for taking this on... but they don't need a diamond to do that.
Diamond moderators are there to handle disputes and other exceptions.
Not to be a welcoming party.
 
@EdCottrell I really liked the question about meta posts. I think that covers a few different aspects of vetting. It shows if the candidate is involved, it shows what they are proud of and it allows them to explain why those posts are important to them
> Do you have any Meta posts that you're particularly proud of, or that you feel best demonstrate your moderation style?
 
@Andy That question was genius.
 
@bjb568 Coming a bit late to this discussion, if you just want specific examples of good questions that got closed, I suspect any reasonably active high-rep user could find some in their reopen vote log. Sometimes, the system does fail (and we have reopen and undelete votes precisely so that it can try to self-correct some of the failures).
 
5:48 PM
On smaller sites, this changes a little bit - moderators can afford to welcome people to the site and teach them the ropes on an individual basis. On Stack Overflow, the responsibility shifts almost completely to handling edge cases.
 
I think if the moderators need to help the community they should find solutions to this problems, i'm with you there is a lot of questions daily and that's a lot of work, what do suggest as a more clear roles?
 
@M.B.Asfour I think we can make our wording clearer both before a user asks a question, and in the text shown when the question is put on hold.
 
@Andy Yeah, agreed. That question was excellent.
 
If we can cut these cases in half through system changes, we're coming out ahead.
 
@SterlingArcher do you like apples?
UNDO HAS MY VOTE! HOW DO YOU LIKE DEM APPLES?!
 
5:49 PM
Well... thanks ;)
 
@Undo - Or perhaps have a better tutorial for new users
 
well, technically you both do
but it didn't work with the quote
 
@rlemon lol
 
@VinodMadyalkar That's another aspect of this, which I fully support.
People from different languages and cultures often don't really understand our rules. If we can explain them better, I think we could cut these kinds of cases by a significant amount.
 
Chat flags really should just show up on the main site.
 
5:51 PM
so consolidate main into one language. JavaScript :D
 
@Undo - And yes, I agree, we don't need the diamond to help new users. But I am actually concerned about how many posts from new users are downvoted / closed really fast
Anyways. Good night fellas. See ya all tomorrow :)
 
@VinodMadyalkar Unfortunately, I think that's just how the system has to work at this scale. We should improve the experience of asking and getting your question closed, though.
@VinodMadyalkar This has been a great conversation, see you tomorrow!
 
We have the set of rules ready we need to make it simple "when possible" and clearer and easier to adapt, maybe we can maker translations of them to many languages, we have a big community that can help here in SO
@VinodMadyalkar Good night.
 
@VinodMadyalkar G'night.
 
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