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1:39 AM
 
 
4 hours later…
5:14 AM
yawn
 
 
7 hours later…
12:21 PM
@Scratte and now it's +16 :-)
 
@CodyGray you had asked if I could tell you how many people blindly picked candidates based on candidate score. Well uh... I can't determine causality (naturally) but there's at least some correlation...
 
@RyanM More than the Question now. Perhaps people are getting tired of the bashing :)
That looks like the first and seconds choices are based on rank alone.. but how could it be different given that they were the ones elected?
 
 
4 hours later…
> This title would help children that commit such mistakes to find the answer faster
 
Yep. :D
I originally thought it must be an audit.
 
if I were an SE dev, I'd make audits that do nothing but code format every word or phrase in the post that's the name of a tag.
It'd trip up a lot of reviewers, judging by the number of people that I have to flag for approving those...
 
You say that, I click next and get this
 
@DanielWiddis ooh, so close...
stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/30173187 "Please try highlighting the code part of the important parts in the answer." Okay, good advice. You should consider following it yourself, because none of that is code.
 
4:36 PM
ew
Here you go
@HenryEcker News report: "Shocking new study confirms that candidate score is predictive of voters' preferences." More seriously, I'd like to see a similar graph against reputation rather than score.
One of the cool things about working for Microsoft is you get to try out all the cool new features in bleeding edge dogfood versions.
One of the horrible things about working for Microsoft is you get to find all the bugs in bleeding edge dogfood versions. At the moment all internal file sharing on sharepoint is broken.
 
@DanielWiddis Yeah. Working on it now! I'm doing preference vs SO reputation, Network. reputation, number of words written on the questionnaire, also running some understandability analysis on the words used.
 
@HenryEcker Oooh, understandability. In a recent election that I shall not name, the candidate that talked at a 5th grade level beat the one that talked at a 12th grade level.
 
5:05 PM
Hello
 
5:15 PM
@RyanM That got approved as well! **table flip**
 
 
1 hour later…
6:17 PM
@manro Hi manro.
 
6:32 PM
@DanielWiddis Here's the plot against reputation it's about the same. Although it's really hard to differentiate since falf of candidate score is derived from reputation.
Interestingly as well the number of downvotes seems to positively correlate with highly ranked. votes vs down votes
The length of the nomination post seems to have almost no correlation to votes.
 
@DanielWiddis where are all?
 
7:06 PM
@manro All are everywhere. :)
 
7:39 PM
@HenryEcker Fit it again without the outlier. :) Given total line length limits that most everyone got close to, I didn't expect a correlation.
 
I expect there to be high correlation between people who vote and being awesome. Can we get the stats on that, please?
 
@DanielWiddis my boys are far away from home(
 
7:55 PM
@DanielWiddis You're correct. It's a bit hard with such a small sample of nominees. The correlation shows that candidate score, number of down votes, and reputation all correlate with higher ranking. The number of answers, questions, meta activity, reviews, flags, etc etc don't really seem to make much of a difference.
 
SO, to become a moderator just create a script to downvote everything.
 
@DanielWiddis You also need to have something that gains you reputation though apparently. interestingly you and Ryan have the highest positional correlation. You appeared behind Ryan 35% of the time, and Ryan appeared behind you 28% of the time (regardless of where in the ranking you fell).
 
Proof that 28% of people didn't know what they were doing
 
user image
2
This is the uniform decision tree (this is regardless of rank) the percentage of time that a nominee appeared behind or in front of another. (Also apt for Halloween approaching XD)
 
8:18 PM
"The devil is in the details"
 
@HenryEcker how to understand it?
 
@manro The arrows represent direction from a candidate to another. Let's just focus on Ryan. Ryan appears before Daniel 35.84% of the time, before Dharman 22.38% of the time, Stephen 20.07% of the time, and Zoe 21.71% of the time.
 
Zoe
@RyanM Don't ask and you shall receive anyway :p
 
@Zoe That was a good choice. XD Also I think this is the first time I've seen you with the diamond. Congratulations~
 
Zoe
Thanks ^^
 
8:28 PM
@DanielWiddis Ugh. Ugly, non-standard UI with incorrect and inconsistent padding. :-(
 
Eww. Some major social media company just copied my profile picture, sorta
 
We were just discussing how we're no longer going to be able to tell people to "go to Meta".
 
I'm quite surprised to see that name change.
 
I thought the discussion was that we should be encouraging people to go complain there about downvotes.
 
8:30 PM
It doesn't at all connote "social network". Are they getting out of that business? The whole thing makes no sense.
Honestly, the only thing I can come up with is that they needed to change their name in order to avoid the bad publicity associated with the name and also possibly to escape new government regulations affecting them, which named them by name.
2
 
@CodyGray This... name change rebrands are almost always a sign of a company in trouble.
 
@HenryEcker interesting. This instrument is called uniform decision tree?
 
Yeah, I guess I underestimated just how much trouble they were in.
 
@HenryEcker Interesting thing about this is it identifies exactly who got my votes, by proportion, when I was eliminated.
 
@manro I mean. Sure? It's as good of a name as any. That's how I've named it to differentiate from the individual candidate trees that I made. I'm sure there's probably an actual term for it...
 
8:33 PM
Copying over what I said when I first saw this decision tree shared in another chat room: I would say "needs more color to clearly show the relationships at a glance", but, wow, those are all so close in terms of percentage.
 
@DanielWiddis Yeah. It's generally the idea. This is the progress at all levels, however, because of your removal in the first round it shows exactly where your votes went.
This is exactly where your votes went at all levels of the election.
 
@HenryEcker i don't know, i'm self-learning now and want to explore more ;) are you an analyst?
Cody ♡(˃͈ દ ˂͈ ༶ )
 
@CodyGray I agree. You offering your paint brush?
 
(✿^‿^)
 
@HenryEcker I'll send you my copy of Microsoft Paintbrush
@manro What does this mean?
 
8:39 PM
@CodyGray Perfect! Jokes aside I will totally add the colours in I just need to figure out how to do that... XD
 
I'm sure there's a way to just do some kind of heat-map-style coloring. But I certainly don't know what it is.
But like I said, I think the percentages are so close together that the colors would be less useful than I expected at first glance.
 
@HenryEcker greetings ;)
 
@CodyGray Yes there definitely is. There's actually already a gradient of grayscale on it. But it's hard to tell again because the values are just so close together.
 
Any time I need to make graphics like this, I end up using PowerPoint or something horrible. And then I just hate myself and everything else.
 
I think maybe different colours per candidate could help....
I'm actually trying out a couple new visualization libraries this time around.
 
8:41 PM
Oh wow. I guess I can kind of see the grayscale gradient!
 
But I'm primarily the aggregator "get this from the database in this format" guy not the "make this look real good guy". So it's been a fun project.
 
The problem is, almost all the candidates are rainbows, which makes it hard to choose a single color for each :-)
 
What do you want to visualise?
Maybe i can help? ;)
 
You're right I can't possibly reduce them to a single colour
 
@HenryEcker White? That's what you get when you combine all colours, right?
 
8:43 PM
@manro I appreciate the offer but I'm trying to learn something new so I know it in the future. :)
@VLAZ Ah yes. A directed graph with white edges perfect!
 
@VLAZ That could definitely work
I think a white gradient would be perfect
 
@HenryEcker ༼;´༎ຶ ۝ ༎ຶ༽
 
I feel like I am reading hieroglyphics
 
Apparently text chat nowadays is very close to ancient Egyptian writing. Some of the symbols they used were characters and words, others were more complex representations of items. Like emoji.
 
@CodyGray these symptoms are deformated on your PC?
 
8:47 PM
Dunno. You tell me:
 
That's how I see them as well.
 
I once took an undergrad course on Egyptian hieroglyphics. Unfortunately, I don't remember much of anything from it.
 
@CodyGray hm, i haven't any issues.
 
Looks a bit better on my phone, bit still not sure what it is:
 
ᕦʕ •ᴥ•ʔᕤ
 
8:52 PM
Looks even more distinctly like Egyptian hieroglyphics there. Mainly, it's just larger on the phone. Also, you have that ugly red diamond. :-( I thought they fixed that...
 
@RyanM yes, right displaying
"I'm crying"
 
Definitely whiter :-)
 
@CodyGray seems broken even on main sites. The only place it's correct is in that new Moderator label
 
@HenryEcker VLAZ also suggested that a blood red gradient would be appropriate on that lovely pentagram.
 
8:56 PM
Already done. I just rendered all possible colour maps to see which I liked
 
Much better :)
 
I was actually thinking different colors, not just gradients of the same color.
 
I want to do it also
 
Something like Cynthia Brewer's color maps (colorbrewer2.org/#type=qualitative&scheme=Dark2&n=5). I'm surprised that's not the default, actually.
 
8:57 PM
Yeah I rather liked this one
 
Which software do you use?
 
This is netgraph because I already had my data aggregated in pandas so it made sense to process through networkx
 
"Include any relevant code and data in a minimal, reproducible example." Hey, that looks familiar!
 
It links to SO! That's great I didn't even notice that.
 
We are trend-setters :-)
 
9:04 PM
I mean it is probably one of the best public descriptions of what exactly is necessary in helping to assist in debugging openly available for everyone to ignore.
 
I'm glad we are at least "better" than the ones we copied when making it, e.g. sscce.org and catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
 
Yeah. Because this one comes with a Dark Mode option XD
 
Haha. Dark mode. What a joke.
I'm not a fan. Our dark mode is very bad. The white text is way too high of contrast against the black background.
 
From a design standpoint it's always tricky to add an entire separate set of styles that need tested and maintained.
 
Indeed. That's why I think it's largely a bad idea.
I'd rather just have a nicely designed theme that works well and is used by everyone.
If you have unlimited resources, sure, why not? Heck, make everything customizable! Then again, it's a web page, so that's trivial to do client-side, so not even that necessary.
 
9:13 PM
It kind of depends on alteration timeline too. If you have a set layout that is unlikely to deviate very far then multiple style pallets can be a good way to engage your users. But if you're going to do things like redesign entire windows or menus frequently then it might not be reasonable to also support multiple styles.
 
Hmm.... I'm not a fan of constantly redesigning things.
That's one of my big pain points when it comes to SE.
 
9:32 PM
@HenryEcker You missed a graph that counts the word "I". Maybe also one that's counts the relationship between "I" and the length of the post ;)
 
@Scratte Ol' pal is here ;)
 
Heh.. I'm trying to find the "I" reference from the election chat :)
 
@Scratte So I did all the works with those nominee posts. I ran it through understandability checks, length, self references, personal stories, stat breakdowns, a political relatability processor. I cannot find any correlation between the nominee post and the number of votes a candidate received Still looking for one though. I think I might have to rerun some of them and exclude Stephen as an outlier....
 
What is the "I"???
 
9:39 PM
@HenryEcker A negative finding is at least as interesting as a positive one in this case. Failure of the voters to read/consider the nomination post is itself an interesting statistical fact.
 
You should to write a regex?)
 
in 2021 Stack Overflow Moderator Election Chat, Oct 13 at 9:36, by Cody Gray
It's not scientific until I see some charts.
^^ Henry to the rescue! :-)
 
I just saw that one :D
@manro I think U12 used a simple \bI\b
 
@CodyGray Indeed it is. The problem is any statistical trends are rather thrown off by Stephen's submission, and I'm hesitant to follow the link back to the initial questionnaire which would not be "apples to apples" so to speak. No conclusive trend is not the same as no correlation... I'd like to find a way to put together something that shows no correlations.
 
> this is a "how to program" question, not "what's wrong with my code" so it's off topic for this forum.
Real flag. facepalm.
@HenryEcker Ah, I see. Yes, that makes sense.
 
9:46 PM
@CodyGray Seems perfectly clear to me. XD
 
Why does everyone want to make this a "debug my code" site? How is that interesting or useful to anyone?! Least of all the answerers!
 
I'm relatively new to the community and to be honest it wasn't until I started spending time in SOCVR that I learned that all questions weren't required to have some code
 
Sadly enough, though, the flagged question was poorly posed and off-topic for other reasons.
@HenryEcker Many are, though. I mean, it is a programming Q&A site. So that's an understandable point of confusion. You can ask a question about code, though, without it being a debugging site.
 
@CodyGray Hmm.. so we really are a debugging-helpdesk now?
 
@Scratte Maybe ^[I]\b
 
9:52 PM
@manro That would only count I's in the beginning of text or line depending on the mode (multiline or not). And there's no reason to put I in a character class. It's just one letter.
 
@Scratte U12 did in fact use \bI\b However, this missed all the I'll and I'ms in Zoes. The number should've been 96 not 85.
 
@HenryEcker So.. whatever regex engine they used thinks that ' is a word-character?
Did you switch to \Wb\W?
 
@Scratte I'm not.
 
@CodyGray This happened because people starting to want blood and sweat. This is a natural path because "effort is required". And I don't think we can fix it without Stack's involvement.
 
Why do people want blood and sweat? Why does that matter?
The reason why effort is required is because effort helps narrow down a question to make it answerable. It's not because effort is intrinsically valuable.
 
9:56 PM
We should lose the "research effort" on the voting buttons as a start.
 
What does Stack's involvement have to do with anything?
 
@CodyGray People will not listen. The hear the argument and disagree and go on doing the same thing.
 
@Scratte Ah oops. I really messed up my input field (I don't want to talk about it XD).
 
@HenryEcker I see. That didn't make me curious at all :)
 
@Scratte I've heard it is effective to beat them over the head repeatedly, and bring it up every time they enter a chat room.
@Scratte I disagree!
 
9:59 PM
@CodyGray I know you do. But this is already covered by Questions having to be answerable. We don't need research effort for them to be that.
 
The upvote button should mean that this is an interesting question.
That's not the same thing as a closeable question!
There are plenty of questions that deserve answers but don't necessarily deserve upvotes.
 
There are plenty of Questions that deserve upvotes but didn't show research effort.
And not showing the effort doesn't mean it wasn't there..
 
@HenryEcker I see.. so most of the votes went to the I-outliers? :D
 
@Scratte Right! Exactly! That's the key!
Showing the effort and making a really good, clear, interesting question is worth an upvote.
 
10:02 PM
@Scratte Yes that is true. Having the most or least I's means you win.
 
@CodyGray But that's not how people read it.. they read effort == code. No code, no passing the gates. Unless the code is not enough.. then more stuff applies :D
 
Maybe the language could be modified to simply state "interesting"
 
@HenryEcker How about in percentage of total words?
 
Would also be interesting to track how candidates fared based on total number of rick-rolls conducted. I suspect the outliers would win there, too.
 
@CodyGray No.. absolutely not. Lots of very useful stuff is boring.. I don't find C# interesting, so I'm just going to downvote it.
 
10:05 PM
Meh?
That's OK.
Our goal is not to get everything upvoted.
 
@CodyGray No, it's not. Because then you get to a place where only puzzles gets upvotes and all the life-savers gets downvotes.
 
So what?
 
The votes should reflect answerability and usefulness (to Stack, not to oneself).. and that's it.
 
Wow so interestingly...
 
Interesting questions should be upvoted. Non-interesting questions can reasonably be downvoted. I disagree about "puzzles"; people don't much like "puzzles". But they do like tricky, interesting questions.
 
@Scratte No, answerability should be reflected by a lack of close votes, not upvotes. Upvotes are a quality metric. Close votes are a gate-keeping metric.
 
@HenryEcker Hmm.. that is very interesting. So.. Cody's theory was right :D
@CodyGray Except that one post that saved my life is really boring.. :D So while it fixed my issue, I should now downvote it?
 
@Scratte No, because it's interesting or useful to you. Votes are personal.
 
It's useful, but boring.. so which to pick? I'll not vote, I can't decide :D
 
A question can also be interesting insofar as it can be a mystery how anyone would want to ask such a question.
 
10:12 PM
If you're into that, sure. Although I think that's pretty silly.
 
Me, silly? Meh.
 
We have users that closes boring Questions, so it's not like this is new.
There's also users that closes them because "It takes time from volunteers" and they don't care about all the other volunteers that would be happy to spend the time.
 
I've never actually seen I'm voting to close this question because it's boring. But I'm sure it's been done.
 
So both up/down-votes and close-votes are being used as "personally, I think that..."
@AdrianMole That's not the reason given on the post. But I've seen that mentioned on meta and in SOCVR, if I remember correctly. Something akin to "The site should optimize for answerers. If the Questions are boring, the answerers will leave. So we need to get rid of boring.."
 
Meta is a funny place.
Sometimes, SOCVR is funnier.
 
10:16 PM
I can't get over that it was the I-count that decided the election :D
 
So, next time, we can have an "I-score" card, for each candidate?
 
I think the candidate score and reputation have stronger correlation.
Dharman scored rather low on the I-score.
 
@HenryEcker Would it be much of a task to perform similar analyses on previous elections?
 
No it's all modular (at least for the election contained stuff)
 
I guess the OpaVote files are still around.
I would loosely 'predict' that, over time, the number of 'uninformed' votes (as a percentage) has been steadily increasing, as the general user-base broadens.
 
10:23 PM
Yeah. I'm trying to hunt them down at the moment....
Found it. I'm blind
 
@HenryEcker It's blue on blue.. I missed it too.
 
Tricky if, like me, you're blue-blue colour blind.
 
LOL!.. I hope that's a joke :)
 
You know better than that - I don't do jokes in this room.
 
So I was wrong. My design is, in fact, modular. However apparently the 2020 ballot file is formatted differently so....
Give me a sec.
 
10:36 PM
Hmm.. that's not fair of them. They should consider backwards compatibility.
 
Maybe the format changed because the voting system changed?
 
Oh hey you know what's worse? The link to the documentation on the file format has been updated to reflect the current format.
Wait I figured it out. This year's way pre-aggregated
 
Hmm. There's a website somewhere, where you can ask questions about stuff like this. File formats and the like.
 
Reddit?
 
Maybe Quora.
Or Facebook.
 
10:39 PM
What's FaceBook?
 
One of my Facebook 'friends' (I also know him in real life) once asked, "What's good for removing nail varnish?" So, being a nice guy, with some knowledge of chemistry, I replied, "Try nail varnish remover."
 
@HenryEcker It's the old Meta ;)
 
Were you only allowed to select two nominees in 2020?
@Scratte Oh thank you. I would've never gotten that. XD
 
No. You used to be able to select the number of slots + 1.
 
@HenryEcker I voted on 3 in 2020
 
10:44 PM
@Scratte nSlots = 2; nSlots+1 = ?? ...
 
So running the election give me
[{1: ('Makyen', 7666), 2: ('Machavity', 6610), 3: ('Travis J', 5045), 4: ('Dharman', 4925), 5: ('Tschallacka', 3469), 6: ('noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ', 2296)}, {1: ('Makyen', 8868), 2: ('Machavity', 7500), 3: ('Travis J', 6743), 4: ('Dharman', 5263), 5: ('Tschallacka', 2977)}, {1: ('Makyen', 9529), 2: ('Machavity', 8066), 3: ('Travis J', 7401), 4: ('Dharman', 5853)}, {1: ('Makyen', 11411), 2: ('Machavity', 9304), 3: ('Travis J', 8579)}, {1: ('Makyen', 14022), 2: ('Machavity', 11531)}]
which seems reasonable
But I can only find two votes.
Maybe I need to expand some things
 
Wow, I forgot about CrazyPython.
 
Weren't they the "I won't do anything" candidate?
 
That's why I didn't like it when Tamas was removed.
 
Okay.
 
10:45 PM
Giving how people vote, Tamas would have been elected this year.
 
I found it all
 
@AdrianMole Yes.
 
noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ had unusually high support
 
@HenryEcker Yes, of course..
 
People who voted for them ranked 1 or 2 more than 3.
 
10:47 PM
^ I'm not sure what that sentence means.
 
Of the people who voted for them, they supported him very strongly, ranking him as their 1st or 2nd choice, as opposed to their 3rd choice.
In other words: he was a polarizing candidate.
 
If you voted for noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ you ranked first or second not last.
 
@Scratte This is precisely why we withdraw joke nominations, no?
 
Ohh, OK :) Thanks :)
 
10:48 PM
@CodyGray But how do you know Tamas would not make an excellent moderator?
 
@Scratte Let's see... What answers would you accept here? Maybe, I wasn't born yesterday?
Joke candidates turn into joke moderators, which is not excellent for anyone.
@HenryEcker Lovely colors!
 
Personally, I don't see how Stephen's wasn't just as much a joke.
 
@Scratte It turns out there is more to moderation than munching on some chips. Thought it can help, it doesn't get the job done.
 
@CodyGray Yeah. Thanks for the link it really helped provide some scope for the colour palettes to choose from.
 
I haven't had any chips.
@HenryEcker I love that site!
 
10:50 PM
@RyanM They make jokes, sure.. but it's not like their entire user is a joke.
 
@Scratte You can tell by the way that the nomination text didn't consist entirely of jokes.
 
The best moderators are the ones who only consist partially of jokes.
 
I need a larger character limit if I'm supposed to fit jokes into there!
 
Also a sign of a good moderator... always needing a larger character limit.
 
Or, y'know, the system showing my stats so I don't have to spend the whole char limit on them.
 
10:52 PM
Looking at these previous elections the questionnaires looked more interesting in other years...
 
@HenryEcker Totally agreed.
This year's questionnaire was, for some reason, very boring and repetitive.
It was not useful to me at all when deciding how to rank candidates. That's never been true in previous years, where I've relied on it extensively.
 
and contained two strange hypotheticals where I wanted to dispute the premise.
 
@RyanM Did you try adding the text as an image? :-)
 
I'd be okay if there was more context in the questions.
Like there were so many places where it would "depend" on unknown information
which could have been the point.... perhaps
 
There was no "joke" element in Stephen's nomination. What peeved people was his lack of engagement, neither in comments nor in chat, and the whole questionnaire thing. But, as I've hinted before, all this post-event grumbling is starting to sound a bit Trump-esque. (Remember, Catija was making serious enquiries about what we thought of the Candidate score, and how to improve its relevance, before the election even officially started.)
 
10:53 PM
No, they were silly, obvious hypotheticals.
 
@CodyGray Sort of! I tried to embed my network flair. They block that ;-)
 
@RyanM Because it's already there, silly!
 
@HenryEcker Yes or no. You can get a feeling if someone already hands out punishment versus someone what wants to investigate more.
 
Not the network flair... the one that says 40k on it :-p
 
Ah, I see.
Hmm, I should have bountied over a bunch of rep. On... Android questions? Never mind.
 
10:55 PM
But yeah, it blocks all images in nominations as an anti-spam measure.
 
That seems silly. You are not first-time posters. Anyone nominating for moderator who meets the minimum rep requirements should not be spamming.
 
@CodyGray Apparently, it's a big issue or else they wouldn't be blocking it ;P
 
I don't know what to say to that....
 
Possibly they mean "spam" in the colloquial sense of posting loud/distracting images
 
Probably because the candidate who posted the most animated GIFs and memes would just win.
Man, speaking of, I miss Will.
 
10:58 PM
I don't think I know Will.
 
Former SO mod. Known on MSE as Won't.
Great sense of humor. If you like that sort of thing.
 
Any resemblance to a reptile?
 
Will the Buzzard?
 
@Scratte This defeats your own argument. There is no close reason that justifies closing boring questions, thus no text in the UI, and yet people do it anyway. So, if anything, that proves that adding/modifying text in the tooltips is not going to change behavior.
@Scratte No. Bill the Lizard was a different species altogether.
 
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