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12:03 PM
@AndrasDeak That's what I do in Youtube video comments. Like if you are watching this in 2020...: dislike
 
Heh
 
 
3 hours later…
3:14 PM
 
 
5 hours later…
8:41 PM
So.. hypothetically.. can 20K users vote to undelete a post deleted by a moderator or staff?
 
@Scratte No! Not even hypothetically. Only a mod can undelete a mod-deleted post. But I'm not sure if CM-deleted posts have an extra level of ... whatever it's called.
 
locks?
 
That'll do!
 
I kind of want to ask a Question on meta about why this was deleted.. and request it gets undeleted. But I think I'll just get censored.
 
Dharman said he wanted to make a meta post about the deletion, as well.
 
8:45 PM
Yes, but I'm afraid then Dharman will just get censored :D
To be honest.. every time an answer on a post that is not rude and not attacking anyone gets deleted on meta, I just want to log out and not log in back again.. ever.
 
We need rene - nobody can censor the Fuzzy Flower.
 
@Scratte That...can happen, yes. I don't expect it to happen, though. I think it's more likely that a CM would answer with something like "wasn't constructive or valuable feedback".
 
And it's not helping that it's done in a way that makes it impossible to un-delete it.
 
2
Q: Why was "Needs more emoji" deleted by an employee?

DharmanThis question concerns the following answer deleted an hour ago by one of the SE employees. https://meta.stackoverflow.com/a/398452 <10k screenshot I understand that the post was written in a slight tongue in cheek manner, so maybe the company decided it crossed the line when it comes to being fr...

 
^ One down-vote already. Plus a few ups.
 
8:50 PM
Well, one comment agrees with the deletion. Or at least doesn't mourn the deletion.
 
@Dharman Thank you :)
 
This might be the last time you see my account. This is probably my end. Goodbye!
 
@VLAZ That doesn't mean anything. Even the post with the third worst score on meta has upvotes :D
 
I think it will soon have the second worse score. Cody will get some peace of mind, I'm sure.
 
Well.. to quote the post (my addition even)
💋 Smack you don't have to be cool to rule my world!
 
8:53 PM
@VLAZ The whole point about downvotes on such Meta posts is that they're not personal, or in any way reflective of the poster. They just express genuine disagreement with the suggestion/request.
 
What part of this is supposed to give me peace of mind?
 
@CodyGray You wouldn't have the second most downvoted question on Meta
 
Hide!
 
Oh. I had no idea I even had that.
Literally nobody pays attention to who has what downvotes or upvotes on Meta.
 
Did you get a badge for it?
 
8:55 PM
I probably also have among the most upvoted posts on Meta.
 
...except employees apparently
 
Employees have upvoted posts on Meta?
You might be thinking of former employees.
 
Alas, the standard sarcasm emoji is rather boring. 🙄
 
Indeed. A white vertical rectangle hardly conveys "sarcasm" to me.
 
Are you being deliberately truculent?
 
8:59 PM
No. That's literally what I see on my screen at the end of your last message.
 
@CodyGray What about a white equilateral rectangle with glasses inside?
 
Weird. It's the "roll-eyes" face.
 
I mean, I know it was intended to be something else, but... As with far too many emojis, I just don't see them.
I guess I have to upgrade from Windows 7 in order to be "emoji-compliant". I'm not in a hurry.
 
Stop using Internet Explorer?
 
@RyanM That definitely does. And for whatever reason, so does a blurry portrait of a flower.
@AdrianMole It's Google Chrome... latest...
 
9:00 PM
@CodyGray But how would you use the reaction features?
 
Windows 7 EOL date January 14, 2020 🦾
 
They're not emojis - they're icons.
 
@AdrianMole but they could be emojis. If accepted as such by some commission that oversees them. IIRC that's actually how emojis are added.
 
@pkamb I know all too well. I made the same argument to others in my organization, who still release software that requires Windows 7 and has not yet been certified to operate on Windows 10.
 
Is there only one CM left? What happened to Catija?
 
9:03 PM
@VLAZ How would anyone use the reaction features? Create a bunch of sockpuppets, skip the "gain a trivial amount of rep" phase, and award "thanks" to dozens of your own posts.
@AdrianMole She's still around. There are, I believe, 4 CMs now.
 
Comment in Dharman's post (now linked).
 
I like that they are managers and not leaders, but maybe that's just words.
 
@CodyGray are you suggesting people would LIE on the INTERNET?
 
Catija, Juan, Cesar, and JNat
Oh, and then there's also Nicholas Chabanovsky, but he's not really active on SO. He mostly handles the Russian and other foreign-language sites, I think.
So there are 5 CMs.
 
@AdrianMole Slip of the metaphorical tongue, I think. Catija has been active at least yesterday.
 
9:05 PM
@VLAZ Do you require proof? There is a moderator election upcoming. You, too, can see.
 
@VLAZ Yeah, I forgot to add a vertical rectangle to my post. Catija has made a lot of comments on the original "Thanks" post.
 
@CodyGray It was a jest. Yes, for the record, I do agree the thank feature is ripe for all sorts of abuse and misuse.
 
@AdrianMole Yeah, just grammar problems from a non-native speaker. Not an omen.
 
I didn't really think there was only one CM left. However ...
 
@AdrianMole She's tried very hard to mollify me in private channels when I found out about this, too.
We definitely cannot afford to lose her.
 
9:09 PM
^ Definitely not!
Catija comes across to me like a sort of "Shog-with-soft-edges."
But no such comparison are really valid.
 
Haha
She learned a lot from Shog, both when she got elected community moderator on the only other site that might be close to as much of a trial-by-fire as SO itself (Interpersonal Skills), and then even more after she got hired by the company as a CM.
And I can vouch that she definitely "gets it", something which I was recently reminded that Shog himself said about me when I ran for moderator.
That "getting it" thing is irreplaceable, and highly valued.
 
I think many/most of the SO mods and CMs "learned a lot from Shog."
 
Nah, I taught him everything he knew. :-p
 
I'd like to think that everyone who is active on meta learned at least something from Shog. Not even directly but indirectly. He has a way to be influential in the best way possible.
 
We could request an "eye" icon button for Meta only (in place of the "Thanks"); clicking it means: "I think Shog would like this."
 
9:18 PM
Or "Shog has already read this"
 
@AdrianMole 👁 may Shog9's gaze fall upon you.
 
{trembles}
 
He hasn't always been an eye.
 
I'm trying to remember the other icons he used. There was a severed head but I'm drawing a blank on others.
 
Well, I'm only a new boy in town. He's always been the Dark Side of Photoshop to me.
 
9:20 PM
The severed head was used for the longest on SO/MSO.
There was also a jester hat or something that he used throughout most of SE.
 
Right, I remember that one.
 
JFF has answered Dharman's question.
 
Oh good. That saved me from having to do it.
Yeah, JFF and I both saw the flag from an employee last night. I hot-potatoed it; JFF declined it. I was happy to see that. Then, I came in just a short while ago to find Cesar discussing it with SO mods in the private SO mod room, saying he felt strongly it should be deleted.
I didn't participate in that discussion, having just come in as it was concluding. But JFF basically told him to go ahead and delete it if he felt so strongly, but that SO mods weren't going to do it. It would need to be a CM. That part I definitely agree with.
 
"I hot-potatoed it" just want to say that I've not heard the phrase used this way but I love it. I'll try to add it to my vocabulary going forward.
 
I feel like many of my flags get hot-potatoed
 
9:27 PM
Not on Meta
Unless it's a flag on one of my posts or comments, I generally handle them.
On main, it's not really a hot potato situation. Just a too darn many potatoes situation.
We will soon be hiring new potato farmers.
 
How many would be joining?
 
2
 
Is that from real knowledge or just an educated guess.
 
There are 2 spots in the election.
 
2 or less
 
9:39 PM
Typo: "spots" -> "spuds".
 
Not less
 
So the election would not happen if only one person is running
 
I don't actually know how that works.
That's never been an issue on Stack Overflow.
Maybe we we would just elect that one person twice?
 
Let them do twice the amount of work
 
Give them two diamonds?
 
9:41 PM
That reminds me.. when should one start to bug a user for running?
 
in ElectionBot Development, 2 days ago, by rene
I'm afraid that needs more convincing arguments then endorsements from just the few people that know me. I do appreciate the trust I obviously already gained from you folks.
 
@CodyGray That wasn't really my Question though. 🎀
 
@Scratte Oh, you didn't want to bug rene?
Well, I still think it answered the question. Sam already bugged rene about it, so I don't think it's too soon.
 
@CodyGray No.. rene is scary. I don't bug rene :)
 
I always imagined there were lots of bugs on rene. Aphids, perhaps.
But, as you can see on the election page, the nomination period begins July 6. So you'd want to bug people before that, so they can make a decision, but probably not too much before that, lest they forget and/or you become too annoying.
 
9:46 PM
@Scratte Fat shaming is not really a huge problem on Stack Overflow
3
 
That's a dilemma.. since sometimes I'm already annoying.
 
If someone can't handle a bit of annoying, they're probably not a good candidate for moderator anyway.
 
Wait.. so.. I'm a moderator trial? :D
 
@Scratte more like natural selection.
 
I don't recall the exact date, but the first thing we'll start doing is question solicitation on Meta. I don't know if you've been around for a mod election here yet, @Scratte, but the community has a chance to pose questions that they'd like to ask of prospective candidates. We propose, refine, and vote on these questions on Meta.
The top-scoring ones (the limit is very generous, it's not like only 1 or 2 get in) then get asked as part of the voluntary survey for mod candidates to fill out and link as part of their nomination post.
(The answers to the survey questions are themselves posted on Meta by candidates.)
 
9:54 PM
I'm not even 200 days old yet, so no, this is my first election.
But it's sort of like any other election I assume. Are the chosen moderator held accountable for their answers? :)
 
@Scratte Well, kinda. An informed voter uses those answers to help make their choices of candidates.
After the election? I don't know. Not in any official way, but we haven't had any problem with liars yet.
The community would tend to hold them accountable on Meta. One of the rites of passage for a new moderator is getting a Meta question about some action they took as newly-minted moderator. I imagine the worst possible form of that call-out question would be one that cited their own nominating post as evidence against whatever action they took.
 
@CodyGray That would be a bad hair day.. do anyone ever fail that passage?
 
Probably.
 
Some new mod handles flags in a different way than is the accepted community norm, and they get called out on Meta. They have to respond with a "mea culpa" answer.
 
10:01 PM
@CodyGray Can you share an example, maybe your one?
 
Uhh.... don't know if I can find it. Baum mit Augen actually called me out at some point shortly after my election, complaining about how I handled a NAA or VLQ flag.
This. I didn't answer it, my sockpuppet did.
My defense happened in the comments, and you can see a bit of a discussion that highlights my newness to the fold.
It was...not exactly contentious. I didn't have much of a trial-by-fire.
 
Hmm.. so your trial is still pending?
 
Sure, why not?
Feel free to post any complaints on Meta.
There have been some, just not when I was a new moderator.
Several posts about declined comment flags. For example, this one. Then there's this time when I actually made a mistake and had to confess.
 
:) I guess I'd have to find something to complain about.
The trial-by-fire isn't very fire'y if someone is good at apologizing.
 
10:19 PM
Apologizing for making a mistake is, IMHO, one of the surest signs of true strength. I just wish those who lead us (in the world, I mean, not Stack) would do so more often. I think their 'people' would actually warm to them for doing so.
 
@AdrianMole I think you're just being a reasonable person. It's a rare thing in this world.
 
You mean it's rare for me? Or rare in general?
 
rare in general.. (I'd have liked to tease you though :)
 
@AdrianMole Why stop at world leaders? Why not include Stack Exchange leaders?
Set your vision higher!
 
Well, I don't like to get involved in discussions about SE top staff in chatrooms. I did so once and a lurking moderator castigated me for it.
 
10:25 PM
I think the issue is that people often chose leaders that they think show strength. It requires some insight to see true strength instead of bully-strength.
@AdrianMole That's a very good example of the wrong approach. Is it really better to discuss Stack Exchange leaders on twitter or facebook?
 
@Scratte Twitter is the platform of choice to make any real changes to SE.
(yes, I'm still not OK with this)
 
@Scratte It was one of my poor jokes. The case in point was that it was the wrong room (SOCVR - no politics) and the wrong 'lurker' (Gary Coyd?).
 
@AdrianMole Oh. My apologies. I haven't gone through the entire transcript of the room yet :D
 
np Long time ago.
 
Thank you. I'm a slow reader, so it would probably take years..
The Thanks-post has been closed as a duplicate!
..and it's no longer featured, even if it has the tag.
 
10:45 PM
They probably don't want Cody to lose his #2 spot! ;)
 
lol! That was my first thought. But.. it's bad. It should be featured.
 
Closed by 5 regular users, though. I'm voting to re-open (I'm the third at the time of writing). We aren't allowed to put [xxx-pls] requests for Meta posts in SOCVR, so...
Not a duplicate: Thanks Feature
 
I can understand wanting to close it (make the entire thing go away).. but thanks for trying to get it back to exposure :)
 
Can you see who closed it?
 
Yes, via the timeline. But not until after it's closed.
 
10:53 PM
Three of the names are entirely unfamiliar to me. One I've come across a bit, and one is a one-time regular of SOCVR.
I don't think any normals can see close-voters' names until after closure.
 
One of them started the emoji post :)
 
Indeed! I thought I recognized the name; and I even had the username link in the 'visited' colour.
Just remembered: I can see what others in the CV review queue have voted, but only after I have done so. So, I sometimes get a 'sneak preview' of pending close voters.
 
When is one not a "normals"? I mean when can one see votes without having voted oneself?
 
normals == mortals == non-Moderators.
 
Ah! Well, no point in aiming for that privilege then :)
 
11:02 PM
What's wrong with the dup closure?
If we wait two days we can then vote to delete
 
@Dharman It's taking is away from the front page. It's not on the meta page either because of the votes.
 
We want it to be open, featured and not deleted, don't we? Until it gets more downvotes.
 
@Dharman But we want to delete the feature, not the announcement. We went people to keep voting and posting and complaining.
 
I know. I am only messing
 
Thanks!
 
11:04 PM
If this was not an important announcement I would be all for closing
 
Now open and locked for 28 days.
 
but since this is an announcement and the dup target is actually a follow up it makes no sense
 
But.. I must say that the dupe-target made me smile :)
 
So the dupe should be closed as a dupe.
 
I really don't understand why the company comes up with such ridiculous ideas. They are only stirring the pot
 
11:06 PM
Long live Donald Duck!
 
@AdrianMole It was locked while closed. I cast the final reopen vote but it was already locked at that point.
 
@AdrianMole If the lock hadn't been there, the comments would have been endless.
It's been locked almost since it was posted
 
Didn't notice the lock earlier.
@Dharman I also don't understand the mechanisms involved, and who gets selected to be the announcer. My only other 'interaction' with Lisa was that it was she who interviewed me (via Zoom) for Yaakov's UI-Revamp project. She struck me as an extremely 'gets-it' sort then.
 
I think it should be the Community user.
Unless the feature was a sole responsibility of a single user
 
^ +1
 
11:11 PM
@AdrianMole They draw lots and whoever gets the short straw announces.
 
Oops..
 
(don't know how announcers are chosent)
 
Seems like it. I mean no offence whatsoever, but it seems that Lisa is quite low in the "food chain."
 
Probably they pick the intern to do the dirty job
 
Sounds about right. SOB
 
11:13 PM
I wish I could be an intern and still get paid my salary
Th dream job. No more arguing with the customers. If I mess up I can't be blamed
 
Huh? You get paid. Does your benefactor know your flags-per-day rate?
 
LOL, better not
 
@Dharman Not so sure about that. It was Yaakov Ellis last time.
 
Spending a day on SO is not what I get paid for
 
I'm safe, for now. I'm officially on furlough. (But my boss still expects me to have his new imaging system ready by next Tuesday.)
 
11:17 PM
I did notice that they've implemented multiple features at the same time. So.. nobody is paying any attention to the big edit button anymore.
 
Cunning.
 
I think they also call it spinning..
 
Of course. Hand out 5 bad features. Take back four. Then wait for the praise.
 
I thought it was only 3
thanks - big edit button - annoying instant "tool-tip" pop-ups (to keep people from voting?)
 
New wording on the voting buttons. They don't mention research any more. And after voting, they don't mention clarity, either.
 
11:24 PM
So.. that's 4.
 
I'm trying to remember if there is a fifth.
 
I can live that last one remaining.. rollback the other 3
 
4 or 5 or 3, what does it matter? It'll all be back 2 square 1 in 6 - 8.
^ 7, anyone?
 
@AdrianMole It matters because you said 5. So we're trying to find 5 :D
 
Ah, the follow management screen on the profile.
 
11:26 PM
@VLAZ That's right. That we'll keep :D
BTW: You changed your colours again.. a few days ago. It's very confusing ;)
 
I was trying a few looks. I did actually change it the same day but I guess it takes a while.
 
Ahh.. I see :) Did you try all rainbow?
 
Nah, I just wanted some purple there, so I tried a couple of options.
It was just too purple when I replaced all the black. It was distracting.
 
It makes me want to listen to Purple Rain and A Kind of Magic at the same time. I didn't try one song is each ear yet though
 
@Scratte That would probably turn you nuttier than Prince and Freddy combined.
 
11:34 PM
On the other hand - Prince and Queen. Perfect combination :)
This is mildly funny, I think: Comment lock does not prevent automatic duplicate comments. It makes sense but it's still an unusual interaction.
 
@VLAZ I noticed it when the first vote for the duplicate was made.. :)
 
Wait, I caught Adrian in a lie, it's not 5 features, it's 6!
 
Super! Then there's a buffer for things they can keep :)
 
@AdrianMole Yes... I was blaming Lisa for this, since her name is attached to it, and Catija corrected me, saying that this is something that's been in the works for a long time, and it wasn't all (or even primarily) Lisa's doing.
I still have a bit of an issue with that. I want to hold accountable the staff members who post things, and I feel like "it was a team effort" or "we were told to do it" is a huge cop-out that avoids blame/criticism, but I see that side as well.
Lisa did do the review revamp project, and that was a lot of her initiative. I don't know much about what went on there, but I've heard good things. Glad you confirm them, too.
 
Are there any plans when the revamp will be released?
 
11:46 PM
@CodyGray Sounds a bit like the Generals sending their troops out "over the top."
 
Regarding the Meta announcement... that getting closed is completely inappropriate. No matter how much we don't want it, closing it or deleting it doesn't do any good, and just reduces the changes that employees will bother to ask for feedback in the future (not that we have a great track record on that, but promises are still being made).
When you see something like that closed, it's OK to raise a flag on Meta. Or ping me. Or, I guess, just wait for my meeting to end so I can see it and handle it. :-)
I assume that it having been closed is why it appeared as no longer featured, even though it still had the tag. It's back in the sidebar now, as it should be.
 
@CodyGray We are the Collective. We have the power-of-five.
 
The lock was unrelated. Sam applied that before it was ever closed. Trilarion complained about the apparent contradiction between and locked recently, but as I said there, we don't believe there's a contradiction.
Now that we have this comments-only lock, you can expect to see it getting applied more and more to high-visibility posts, as a way to force people to post answers, instead of comments, which are just unwieldy, easily ignored, etc.
It's not a way to eliminate or suppress discussion. I can guarantee you that none of the moderators want that. We just want to have the discussion captured in answers.
And I have a problem with deleting comments where productive discussion has already happened (Sam has less of a problem with this than I do...), so I prefer applying the lock early, to prevent that useful discussion from ever taking place and then having to wring hands over deleting it when it gets unwieldy.
@Dharman Haven't heard anything. Not following it closely, though.
@AdrianMole That works too.
 
@Dharman I think the "Revamp" has mutated into a gradual trickle of changes. (Like the new-look Close Vote/Flag pop-up.)
 
Revamp?
 
11:54 PM
@Scratte Yaakov announced a while ago (4/5 months?) that they were looking at a major revamp of the review queue UI. They asked for volunteers to be interviewed (by Lisa) on their thoughts/ideas/complaints. I think quite a few of the SOCVR regulars took part. And Catija said (in SOCVR, ~1 month back) that there would be a follow-up survey.
I'm probably not supposed to tell you, but SE Inc. sent me a $20 online Visa Voucher for my troubles. When Lisa told me I'd be getting it, I asked if I could take +200 reputation, instead. She just smiled wryly.
 
@AdrianMole Shame!
 

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