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9:04 AM
@CrisLuengo yea, that's my first comment
 
9:33 AM
@flawr Brilliant!
For me it's even worse. The systems described here are A) on Earth, and B) Planetocentric. I have a system where X points from Mars to the Sun, Y to the negative of the orbital velocity of Mars and Z to the planet's North pole :P
> If your dataset is in China and/or collected with BeiDou, good luck.
:D
> GCJ-02 (colloquially Mars Coordinates, officially Chinese: 地形图非线性保密处理算法; lit.: 'Topographic map non-linear confidentiality algorithm')[15] is a geodetic datum formulated by the Chinese State Bureau of Surveying and Mapping (Chinese: 国测局; pinyin: guó-cè-jú), and based on WGS-84.[16] It uses an obfuscation algorithm[17] which adds apparently random offsets to both the latitude and longitude, with the alleged goal of improving national security.[14][18]
Hum, yes, that's odd. Sounds like what the Americans do during war time in the Middle East; just add a few hundred metres offset to the GPS coordinates and watch your enemies fire their rockets wide of the target
 
10:11 AM
@Adriaan I think there was a video on youtube a while ago about that
 
It's a bummer mainly for Australia IIRC; this BaiDeu satellite track pattern resembles a figure 8 on the surface, with the Northern curl centred on China, and the Southern thus centred on Australia. The Aussies can't use the system though, due to this idocity (and geopolitical strubbles probably make it undesirable to use the Chinese system for the Prime Minister's SatNav)
 
oh I imagine!
 
@flawr that is very interesting! Köszönöm!
(Now I need to focus again on my Martian coordinates, that article doesn't write itself alas)
 
maybe you should use coordinate free geometry
or even better pointless topology
 
10:28 AM
Hehe, or describe my system using Lagrangian coordinates moving along with an arbitrary molecule in the atmosphere
 
@Adriaan ah yes I read about this! If you try google maps and look at china, the satelite and road maps dont match
@flawr this is where I learned it, so I am late :D
 
It's interesting that they go to such lengths to distort their maps in a completely scrambled and obfuscated way, but make it possible nonetheless to have a map... South Korea isn't available at Google Maps at all for fear of Northern attacks
 
south korea is displayed just fine it seems?
 
@flawr ah, no, it's an old paper map, overlying the country in maps.
 
ah I see
 
10:35 AM
youtube.com/watch?v=0Pqcwj4zI0k I presume this video explains it (haven't watched it, was suggested on the one you linked)
 
but then again if your army has to rely on google maps...
 
 
2 hours later…
12:34 PM
I always get a bit giddy when I cite articles ranging in time from 1776 to 2020 :P
 
1776?!
what do you need to reference from then?!
 
The Earth is Round, Aristotle et al., Journal of Greek Everything
 
hahahaha
 
@AndrasDeak slightly earlier on ;)
 
I know... couldn't be assed to look up a realistic reference :P
 
12:37 PM
@AnderBiguri that's apparently the oldest known work on measuring natural, temporal magnetic variations on Earth. So that's what everyone in our field cites as a starting point. Next comes Gauß (1886) with his mathematical formalism, and several articles in the range 1890-1920 who apply it first and determine the basic geometries which are still in use today
 
hahaha
I get it, but its weird
 
Back when papers were not written on paper. By the way the UK archived laws on parchment, up until 2016 when they mostly switched to paper for money reasons.
 
A former colleague of mine had a "History of <field>" paragraph in her thesis, where she did the legwork over a page or 4 to really dig all those historic articles up
@AndrasDeak What?!? :D
Not enough sheep available for parchment?
 
hehe:) a friend and I sometimes "compete" of who can sneak in older references
 
I never reference the discovery of photons, antimater, or even CERN for PET
and that was like 30 years ago, max
 
12:39 PM
Was that along with the horse-hair wigs being thrown out of the house of commons?
 
@Adriaan vellum actually, mostly cows
 
@AnderBiguri plagiarism detected
 
we kind of just assume its history
hahahha
 
"I use this thing, that I invented, called photons"
 
12:41 PM
@AnderBiguri I wonder how people could survive without photons
 
@AnderBiguri makes sense. The example we always get for our "how to write an article with references"-class is Einstein (1905), for E=mc^2. Point there is that it's usually considered general knowledge, thus you can drop the formula without reference. OTOH, if you're writing something specific on e.g. the history of that formula and how you're going to adapt it, it might be relevant to do cite Einstein
 
Or imagine the world before newton invented gravity, must have been insane
 
everyone flying around
 
@flawr Hah, you need to get your behind back in school, with my missus. She's constantly explaining the difference between a discovery and an invention ;)
 
@Adriaan yeah, we more or less do that. Historical refs are unnecesary or unused, we start from quite the newest stuff. Even in things like "motion correction for tomography" we often dont even reference the first articles in the field, as its understood that people know about it, so you just reference the latests attempts/trends
 
12:43 PM
@Adriaan hehe:)
@Adriaan what age group does she teach?
 
@flawr Sekundar Stufe 1 -3, which is 12-15 IIRC
 
ah ok
 
1:28 PM
posted on October 30, 2020 by Johanna Pingel

This post is another from Ieuan Evans, who brought us Deep Beer Designer, back today to talk about wine! It's a longer post than usual, but packed with useful information for Deep Learning for Text.... read more >>

 
 
1 hour later…
2:38 PM
@Adriaan But why cite those? Also, have you actually read them? Lots of scientists cite papers they haven’t read (witnessed by them copying over the same typos others have in their list of references). I don’t understand that. How do you know that reference really supports what you’re claiming? I say, cite only stuff you’ve actually read.
 
@CrisLuengo Yes, I did read them
 
Reading history, eh? Are those still relevant?
In my field, the earliest writing is from the 60’s, but nobody cites those any more.
 
First PET scanner was made in 1973 and we dont cite that
 
It’s established. Citations are to support your statements. “PET scanners exist” doesn’t need support.
I once read a paper where they tracked typos in citations, establishing a hierarchy of “who copied citations from whom”. That was pretty awesome, it showed how many scientists don’t actually bother even looking up the original source. They just cite it because of rumors.
 
2:58 PM
@CrisLuengo hehe. A good thing is, though, I don't build my own citations. I copy the citation into Google Scholar, download the article, and click on the "Gimme the BibTex for this article"-button
 
3:20 PM
@CrisLuengo well what are you gonna do if it's behind a paywall :)
But yes I agree I also have the impression most cited works have not been read by the guys citing them.
 
3:38 PM
@flawr That’s a whole different problem. It wasn’t much of a problem when I was at a major university, but now I it’s a huge problem. I’m all for publishing reforms.
 
these old reference papers are probably all on sci-hub at least
 
@CrisLuengo I just recently had a discussion with someone and I don't remember the details but basically we ended up thinking about how publishing today still is done much in the same way as when publications on paper were the only way to read them. But right now I'd say more than 90% of articles are read on a computer, and interesting ones (for positive or negative reasons) are discussed on twitter.
So we didn't find a perfect solution but it just was a fun sad observation
 
Peer review is still important. This year we’ve seen the effects of people posting bad science on public repositories. “Published in bio-ArXiv” appeared in the papers way too frequently. So much confusion about the difference between shifty conclusions from one scientist vs scientific consensus.
Remember the French doctor who thinks that controlled trials are unnecessary?
 
@CrisLuengo wtf? what was that about?
regarding peer review absolutely! we were more just discussing about how science is presented in those basically rigid printed forms - but now there would be the possibility to have something like an open forum where people could annotate things, display data interactively, talk to other people and link connections (of course with all that archiveability becomes another issue)
 
This is a better write up of what happened: forbes.com/sites/alexledsom/2020/07/19/…
> a control group wasn’t used
 
3:55 PM
using controls just doubles the expenses and they don't even get anything so I totally agree
 
He was on record complaining about how scientists keep insisting on double-blind controlled studies, and that it’s BS.
@flawr haha!
 
@CrisLuengo :|
"We got 75% improvement." "Compared to what?"
 
4:14 PM
I was giving lessons and sharing my screen and I accidentally clicked in the tab
you are all now part of UCL MSc Nutrition
 
I feel honoured!
 
@Adriaan that sucks sometimes, double check them always XD
 
adds "guest lecture in UCL" to CV
 
@CrisLuengo with covid, tons of bullshit is being published in proper journals. I read one for this MSc that I am tutoring about Impact of Vitamin D on Covid patients
that claimed that dark skinned people are more affected from covid (which often can be explained via social class, and its still a controversial in science) and that the lower amounts of vitamin D in dark skinned people are the main cause (but there is no study that shows links of Vitamin D and covid, even less that that is the main reason why dark skinned people are affected)
this was a review paper, published in a good journal
@flawr hahaha :D
 
4:35 PM
@AnderBiguri so you're saying that chat needs more oneboxed NSFW content
 
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
 
@AnderBiguri peer review cuts out 75-85% of the shit. Unfortunately that means that 50% of what is published is shit. (Disclaimer: Statistics invented on the spot.)
 
yeah thats right
 
@AnderBiguri what the FUCK are you doing teaching nutrition? (The emphasis is so that it’s more visible on the screen when you share it.)
 
hahahha
I teach the "tutoring" part of it. Its discussions on how to do science, how to read scientific articles, compare methods, etc
 
4:40 PM
That is cool! Kids need more of that!
 
so we discuss papers with words like "sarcopenia" that I need to google search, but the students know more than me XD
Yeah, aparently UCL has very strong focus on research for MSc levels, at least half of the class wants to do a PhD after
 
Ok, I googled that word too.
 
"penia", suspicious
Ander is already on the NSFW train
 
hahahaha
 
I feel like Ander is the ony one not posting nsfw things here
 
4:45 PM
well, I learned a lot with that. Aparently having low muscle mass is very significant to having ery bad complications from liver disseases, incuding one that >30% of wester population already has
so get ripped, will save your liver and brain
@flawr I'll start soon sending the photoshoot I took recently
;)
 
@AnderBiguri oooooh :D
 
CHATLAB and Talktave, and Ander naked chat room
 
@AnderBiguri is the pay so bad at your uni?
 
the pay is ok, but london is very expensive
something needs to pay for my avocado toast and macha latte
 
So that’s why you have the long beard... you can be naked and still cover yourself a bit!
 
 
1 hour later…
6:04 PM
posted on October 30, 2020 by Steve Eddins

I wrote previously about the new colorChecker, which can detect X-Rite test charts in the R2020b release. Another area of new color-related functionality is computing perceptual color differences.... read more >>

 
6:53 PM
@CrisLuengo do you mean the beard up there or the one down there?
 
7:05 PM
Why distinguish? Think Gandalf meets Austin Powers
 

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