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1:44 AM
Hi chat!!
seems like this chatroom is to discuss about MATLAB?
I had a question similar to this one -
like should we use scatter to plot 3d matrix in which colors are to be assigned depending on the values of the matrix
how the colormap is to be added in the command?
 
 
6 hours later…
8:11 AM
@BAYMAX what do you consider a 3d matrix?
 
8:37 AM
@flawr (x,y,rgb) probably
Or msybe not
 
well I've also seen 3x3-matrices being referred to as 3d
I'd prefer the term rank 3 for a matrix/array of size (a,b,c)
 
@BAYMAX in the linked code the 3d indices are used as a regular grid in a volume, and corresponding scalar values of your array index into the colormap. Smallest is lowest color, highest is top color; something like that. Is that what you want?
@flawr that's the linalg convention. Nobody says that ;)
@flawr rank 3 means it's nxn and rank(M)==3 :P
If you call it a matrix it has 2 indices already
 
yeah ok, but too many people use matrix for stuff that has not necessarily 2 indices
By rank I didn't mean the linalg term but the term borrowed from tensor wizardery
@AndrasDeak I'm sure there are enough people:)
 
Only mathematicians.....
 
9:33 AM
@flawr mainly beacuse of this, my strongest personality perk. I like mesh
I have 7 nested loops that are used to compute an index. And I have a bug in there! who could have guessed
now how the heck am I going to solve it XD
 
gdb + cuda? = boom?
Either gdb or lots of print calls ;)
 
yeah prints is the way I am going. I'll get it, its just hard for my tiny brain processor
 
Try even printing the trivialities. Assumptions you know you can't be wrong.
 
I know what it is, spent yeysterday 4 hours debugging it. Has to do with ceils and upper limits when splitting the problem
if I split 5 "work" into 2 GPUs, each does 3 work, but one stops early, at 2. But I am not taking this into account when copyin memory out
so segfault
but it only happens with morethan 2 GPUs
its pinpointed to the line, but I dont know what solves it XD
Anyways just talking to myself
 
It's horrible that you must deal with this manually, and not tell some library: "here are X units of work and Y workers - now figure it out"
 
9:47 AM
Ah, fencepost error
 
@Dev-iL In CUDA, its the only way of obtaining true performance though
there is no book on "how to optimize your code" because its so problem specific that there are no even general guidelines
 
Well, "just" make sure you use your SIMDs correctly :)
 
Also, CUDA was proposed 10 years ago by a PhD student, its not the best
 
Switch to OpenCL?
 
Lol, telling
 
9:50 AM
@Dev-iL Its worse....
And community is smaller, and docs are even more scarce.
Plus it does not achieve the performance CUDA gets to. The perks of writting code for the hardware you make
 
Well, then wait until nVidia integrates Mellanox, and makes a new API that solves these problems for you
 
but then I can not write a paper about how nicely I split the problem :P
Wich I mean, I have completed 70% of it already
 
Is CUDA the PHP of GPUs?
 
CUDA is the XX of GPUs. Its just CUDA 90%, and some people use OpenCL
 
the last 20% is 80% of the work...
 
9:54 AM
Its essentially a monopoly
@Dev-iL D: I hope not
 
I meant due to the "proposed by a phd student"
 
You can hope whatever you want, statistics are not on your side
 
@Dev-iL T.T
 
> Early PHP was not intended to be a new programming language, and grew organically, with Lerdorf noting in retrospect: "I don't know how to stop it, there was never any intent to write a programming language [...] I have absolutely no idea how to write a programming language, I just kept adding the next logical step on the way."
 
It's like I tell people that I'm 85-90% through my PhD... unfortunately degrees are difficult to extrapolate
 
9:56 AM
@Dev-iL true. I went 3 months over my budget. I feel ya
@AndrasDeak haha possibly. Now definetly they are triying to make it better, but th einitial design was so crappy that its hard
 
I mean, I have plenty of time, this was referring to the amount of progress
 
@Dev-iL well, I went over time because of my estimates on how much progress I had left
Example of CUDA being crap: Variables that are on texture memory need to be global and only used in the file that declares them. If you have N GPUs, you only use 1 single global. The compiler will know you are talking about a different variable in a different device
it makes for some unreadable confusing code
 
My main problem right now is that my advisor didn't find a replacement for me, so he's inclined to keep me around for a while longer (contrary to my own interests)
 
@Dev-iL thats shitty
 
10:01 AM
Maybe try MPI?
 
> To enable a single-node multi-GPU application to scale across multiple nodes
That would make my work 4x better
But, I have not the time, nor the will, nor the access to code this on a machine
MY code is now single node multi-GPU. If I could make it multiple node muliple GPU it would kick ass in an enormous manner
 
Are you using UVA?
 
But this was a side project that is close to taking 3 Months of my work now
@Dev-iL nop
 
Wouldn't that help with this specific issue?
 
UVA is very nice for easiness, but most of my speed improvements come from specific and detailed memory management
if I let CUDA do it for me its unlikely that I will get the speed I get. It will work, but my innovation is not that it works, its that its fast
 
10:05 AM
@AnderBiguri I'll use that when I talk to my advisor - "my innovation is not that it works, it's that it's fast" (although in my case, the fact it works is also new)
 
I have some simulatneous memory transfers happening while I compute that minimizes compute idle times and memory required
Thats the thing. In my case, its not that new that it works
 
sounds like your regular pipelining...
 
Yes, it is.
Just no one has published nor coded it
 
Are you making a tool(box), or just an example?
 
The closest thin I found (ASTRA, my arch enemy) needs 21 GPUs to fit a 2000^3 volume on GPUs. What I have done is write code that ensures that without any performance drop in each GPU call, you can fit any arbitrarily large image in any arbitrarily small GPU, by partitioning correctly and queueing operations in a certain manner
It will be added to TIGRE. It is in fact, in a branch
 
10:09 AM
MPI is good and easy for simple stuff
 
This would not be simple :P
 
Ok I get it, you're specifically interested in maxxing out performance... so you can't take these shortcuts
 
I have already used it, a PhD student here needed some help with it, with some other different gpu partitioning algorithm
@Dev-iL indeed.
 
although you could take a step back and write some intermediate utilities to help you do what you're doing
 
Like git or tex ;)
 
10:10 AM
Ah, but I was a naive idiot 2 months ago, I though it needed just a couple of modifications
4500 lines of code later....
 
nice :)
Although nobody asked - my current task is to take MATLAB's implementation of a reflective-trust-region solver and vectorize it (thank the gods it's open-sourced)
 
Is it loopy loop?
or, to slow?
 
it's an iterative algorithm, so it will have a loop anyway, but the issue with their implementation is that it only solves "1 problem at a time"
and I need to solve 300k of those
 
Ah, this is this matrix stuff you where doing a bit ago?
what an ambiguous dude I am
I recall you asking some questions about how to combine some problems, but not much more XD
 
I suppose you mean the vectorized gauss-newton solver. So yeah, that's done
so now I need to add a "reflective" aspect to it
 
10:15 AM
mirror=true;
 
Someone did something similar for scipy recently
 
@AndrasDeak suppose I have an implicit problem at the moment, where my (known) output is a nonlinear function of 3 unknowns. Now further suppose that I can rearrange it such that one of the unknowns is a function of the other two. I was led to believe that this simplifies the solution somehow. Can you comment on this?
@AndrasDeak I have this page open atm
 
@Dev-iL then you have 2 unkowns, right?
 
dunno, they are still 3, it's just that one of them is now on the LHS
which makes it an "explicit" equation
 
@Dev-iL uuuh probably not but I'll think about it when I get to work
 
10:20 AM
but if one of the unknowns is a function of the other two, then its not an unknown when the other two have been solved right? So its not an idependent variable
 
It's something that has to do with partial derivatives being zero
 
And here's newly vectorized Newton's docs
@Dev-iL you mean f(x,y,z) is really f(x,y,z(x,y))? Probably not because this wouldn't be implicit. What is the optimization problem?
(Be back post-bus)
 
what a bunch of ugly numbers
it reeks of ill-posedness
 
^ that's an example of the shape of the problem. I can write it as n=f(m,T)
@AnderBiguri naaah... These are just numbers resulting from fits of some integrals. Think "experimental data"
 
10:26 AM
@Dev-iL but what is before? ??=f(m,n,T)
 
In the photo it's in the form const = f(m,n,t)
 
ah, so you just put the numbers in the RHS, the n in the LHS I see
 
yeah
I think whoever gave me this tip was thinking of PDE/ODE where explicit vs implicit has clear implications
 
So the idea is that if you can make f(m,n,T)-C=0 equal to f2(m,T)-n=0 (f2() == f1()+however C fits on it), then when you compute the Jacobian, or the derivative of your optimization, \partial f2(m,T)/\partial n ==0, which did not happen before
as the Jacobian will be a matrix of the function with partial derivatives of each independent variables x_n ={m,n,T}
Not sure if I explained myself properly
 
My understanding is better than before, but I'm not there yet
 
10:35 AM
esentially just think that you are always solving for something =0, do not think of LHS/RHS
the method will take OP()=0 and take the partial derivative of OP by every independent variable. These partial derivatives are possibly numerical, and you want them to be really good, but with your ugly numbers they may not be. Maybe you are approximating them etc.
if OP() = f(m,n,T), then you have 3 partial derivatives that are numerical approximations and such
if OP()=f2(m,T)+n , then one of the partial derivatives of OP(), the one w.r.t. n, its equal to 1.
more stable numerically
easier to compute
I am assuming you are using an optimization method based on derivatives, by what you say and what you linked
 
yeah @ derivatives
 
so yeah. In short,
if you dont separate n, `\partial f\partial n== some numerical monster approximation`
If you separate n, `\partial f\partial n= 1` (1, or some other constant, maybe you have some multiplier to n)
Of course, the other 2 change too, but should not be more monstrous that they were before.
 
Alright, thanks for the explanation... I need this to sink in a bit
 
10:55 AM
Yeah, what Ander said sounds reasonable
definitely leave the lhs/rhs philosophy
 
11:11 AM
So tonight we're celebrating the holiday of public drunkenness :)
 
wait wat
<Googles "jews getting drunk">
what a wild google images result
It looks like a staged photo, but its not
 
This holiday is peculiar also because it's celebrated on different dates in different cities
It's a question of whether the city you're in was historically surrounded with a wall
 
The wikipedia article is too long for me to read now :P
 
You have to be drunk enough so that you can't tell right from wrong. Certain sources say you have to be drunk enough so that you can't tell the neighbour's wife from your own.
 
11:39 AM
Thats very drunk
But I would not say dancing with a rabbit is inherently bad
 
dancing with a pig would be much much worse
 
certainly
 
12:02 PM
a rabbit with a beard is a bit creepy imho
 
I see a bunch of mustache + chest hair, but no beard
 
I see him:
 
Ah, black sails
 
Pirates of the Caribbean :P
 
12:06 PM
yeah, one of those
thanks for the correction :)
 
easy for me because I don't watch pirate things
 
I somehow knew this already
@Adriaan you must be wondering why Andras is posting images of bearded beings
 
@AndrasDeak why? D:
 
pirates are lame don't strike me as particularly interesting
 
@AndrasDeak dunno, that sounds racist
 
12:15 PM
people born pirates deserve my attention? :D
 
12:36 PM
@AnderBiguri The basque guy I told you about just came to visit
 
@AndrasDeak that's because of the wooden leg ;)
 
12:55 PM
@Dev-iL Is he very basque?
:P
 
@AnderBiguri How do I check?
 
with a bascometer, obviously
 
He has no beard, if that's what you're asking
 
-1 point
 
And he appears not to refuse to speak in Spanish
 
12:56 PM
hahaha I do not either, I think that is OK
 
@Dev-iL is he French-Basque?!?
 
So you accept the overlords?! :O
 
nah, I am joking, he is as basque as he wants to be, I dont want to start a sectarian war
 
@Adriaan I expect these questions to be followed by a test sequence
 
1:28 PM
@AnderBiguri @AndrasDeak followup question regarding rearranging that equation - previously my residual was: rz = const - (m * f1(T) + n)*f2(T), and now it's rz = const/f2(t) - m*f1(T) - n. Previously, in all partial derivatives the constant would disappear - but now it doesn't. It seems like I'm solving a different problem, not just a more numerically-stable alternative. Should I be worried?
 
its not a different problem, you just rearranged it. Clearly the values of the partial derivatives w.r.t. T and m will change, but I don't think they will be less stable
if the problem is inherently ill-posed, this won't change much. It will, in theory, change the error you introduce in your numerical approximations of derivatives, as now 1 of the derivatives will not have any error
But to actually prove that this is the case you need to do a lots of maths that I do not know how to do
I suggest you try both :P
 
Thing is.. this constant represent a measured value, which can be noisy, and it is very convenient for me to make it go away
OTOH, the equations should satisfy the measured value, so maybe it still gets in via some back door
 
As I say, I suggest you try both, if its not too hard. But I see your point, maybe for your particular problem it is not worth rearanging
@Dev-iL yes, but it will have more influence in the derivative, very likely
 
Stand behind them and count the number on your fingers. At 10 watched videos, pull their internet cable. More seriously: this is a very unclear question. Do you want to do this automatically? Do you which to write a program for this? Please read up on How to Ask and then edit the question accordingly. — Adriaan 7 mins ago
Was I too harsh?
Probably I was...
 
hum, I would take it hardly, the first seems like ajoke, but I udenrstand why would someone take it badly I guess
 
 
1 hour later…
3:07 PM
I've updated the wiki except for and to include the sentence "Don’t use both the [matlab] and [octave] tags, unless the question is explicitly about the similarities or differences between the two." as discussed here yesterday. Let me know if you're not OK with these changes.
2
 
looks good to me
 
^ I second that
 
I second that too
(I third that? :)
 
3:23 PM
You could just second my statement, which recursively seconds the original.
 
until the stack overflows and you get -65535 approvals of that statement
 
@AnderBiguri uses 16-bit indexing... Seems you're stuck in 1989. :p
 
I am memory efficient!
 
4:00 PM
@AnderBiguri that actually crashed our national train network last year...
 
We have a tunnel at the national airport, and only when the train is in the tunnel does the system assign it a platform. As in: it's known it's either 1 or 2, but not which one until the train is in the tunnel. Then someone burgled a store in the hall, and tried to escape on foot through the tunnel, so train traffic was halted.
The system then tried to assign a train, which was stopped in the tunnel, to a platform, over and over again because the train didn't move: overflow happened, and presto: no trains in the country for half a day because the central server system broke down and the back-up was crap for some reason
 
4:12 PM
:/
 
Why do people keep asking about 'MATLAB and Python give different results for the same function!' When A) IT'S DIFFERENT LANGUAGES and B) The difference is on the order of TEN TO TE MINUS SIXTEEN, bloody machine precision :(
 
4:32 PM
@Adriaan Because they A) wrongly assume there is only one correct way that everything is implemented under the hood and B) have no understanding of floating-point representations. This is likely because a lot of users of these languages have little to no formal programming background, and are coming from other disciplines to process data.
To summarize, it's "the curse of high-level languages".
 
I think even in low languages people have this issue
its just mostly the lack of understanding of floating point math
we all been there
 
Don't get me started on "why does eig give me different eigenvectors, I want the same ones"
 
4:47 PM
Damn, I get different numerical results when I upgrade GCC. If the same code cannot be guaranteed to produce the exact same floating-point output, how do you expect different code to do that?
 
@AndrasDeak I like this more when the corresponding eigenvalues are zero :P This happens so often
 
But they are not zero, they are 1.523e-212
 
@AnderBiguri does that matter? I think only the dimensionality of the subspace matters
 
5:34 PM
@AndrasDeak some algorithms will dump garbage eigenvectors when their eigenvalues are zero or close to zero
 
Reading this discussion makes me really happy to know that there are people out there who "speak the same language" as I
 
מה זאת אומרת?
 
@Dev-iL Is this related to the "Do you speak MATLAB?" ads?
 
6:16 PM
@AnderBiguri No habla ivrit :(
 
6:27 PM
@AnderBiguri huh
oh, like trivial iterative methods that converge to the eigenvector with largest eigenvalue
but that's crap :P
 
I mean, it makes sense.
 
anything that calls itself eig() should be general-purpose
 
yes, but a zero valued eigenvalue can have any eigenvector right?
because if it has zero value it means that you are not using that space
I lack the words to describe what I Want
 
@AnderBiguri nope
zero eigenvalue means that M*v = 0*v, just like any other subspace
it's still a 1d linear space (c*v) as long as the kernel (the linear space spanned by 0-eigenvalued eigenvectors) is 1d
And for eigenvalues with multiplicity higher than 1 you'll get a multidimensional subspace spanned by the corresponding eigenvectors, in which case n linearly independent eigenvalues can be chosen arbitrarily in the n-dimensional subspace. And this is true regardless of the eigenvalue.
 
7:03 PM
hahaha, I just saw a TV ad by the British government on how to get info on preparing for the UK leaving the EU: gov.co.uk/euexit like we are leaving them xD
 
@Adriaan I get a "server not found" error for that link.
 
@CrisLuengo yea, same here. Friend of mine told me it'd work with www; otherwise gov.uk/prepare-eu-exit
still, they're saying we are leaving basically. Love it
(With 'we' I still mean the EU, even though I'm no longer in it)
 
7:19 PM
@Adriaan You're still a national from a EU country.
You're an expat now -- which sounds better than "migrant worker" or "immigrant". :)
 
@CrisLuengo Today is the first election since I was allowed to vote in which I didn't (can't even) vote :(
@CrisLuengo stackoverflow.com/q/55229467/5211833 my flag here about the possible collusion between OPs was helpful, but no action taken
 
@Adriaan In other countries you can vote by mail as an expat. NL is quite different there. They don't even want you to register yourself at the embassy in the country you're living in. I feel like my country doesn't care about me! :p
 
@CrisLuengo I can vote per post, that's not the problem. Today's election is Provincial states, and I'm not in a Dutch province, hence no vote
I shouldn't forget to send my details to Den Haag next week, then I can still vote for the EU parliament
 
How come I can't vote? Maybe I didn't ask in the right places...
 
@CrisLuengo I got a letter from the Den Haag municipality within a month of living here saying I should send me details over and I'd be allowed to vote via post.
@CrisLuengo here
For the Dutch parliament you'd be safe, but if you have a Spanish passport as well, I'm not sure for which of the two you're allowed to vote in the EU elections; certainly not both
 
7:33 PM
@Adriaan Thanks! I haven't kept up with Dutch politics in a while, since I wasn't voting any way. I might get back into it now that I know I can vote. I don't get to vote here at all (not even local elections), which is quite a bummer.
 
@CrisLuengo register before 11th April for the EU elections. Next national ones are either in a couple of months if the Eerste Kamer goes awry for the government today, otherwise in a year or two
 
I don't think I ever gave my address outside of NL when I left, I just unregistered from city hall in Delft.
@Adriaan Will do! Thanks!
 
@CrisLuengo ah, I had to give an address, and when I asked 'and what if I move?' they told me that no-one cared, except those greedy sods at the belastingdienst. Otherwise you will just be registered at the Register niet ingezetenen, which is not updated whatsoever when you move abroad
I have my room for just a year, hence I asked up front what to do
@CrisLuengo I can't vote here either, even though it's national pastime here
 
@Adriaan In Sweden I could vote for local elections (city government). In Spain foreign residents can vote for city government too. I think it makes sense, you can influence local stuff that affects your day-to-day, but not national stuff, which includes international relations etc.
City government is really just about "shall we fix this road here or invest in a new swimming pool?"
I don't see how nationality could negatively impact such things.
 
@CrisLuengo same in the Netherlands, provided you have had legal residence (somewhere in the country) for four years. Not here. Here you have to live for 10 years in the same municipality to be eligible for a passport, and then you can vote for everything
In Iceland you can vote as soon as you have a house there, iirc xD (Perhaps it's official residence, but in any case the moment it gets through, you can vote)
 
7:50 PM
@Adriaan Yeah, in Sweden I only became eligible for voting after a few years. That's reasonable, you want to make sure people are invested. 10 years is a long time. Here I think I can apply for citizenship after 5 years of being a permanent resident (so it's not just living here, it depends on the type of visa you have).
 
@CrisLuengo I won't get a passport here (unless they offer me a professorship after I finish) but my teachers do. Thing is: pension here is 4-6k/month, and if you move abroad your pension is 'indexed accordingly', meaning you loose 40% moving to the EU. However, when you are a Swiss citizen, you keep the lot, wherever in the world you go live
 
O.o
That's a nice pension.
 
Well, I get paid less than a stock clerk and I earn about 1,5 times average Dutch wage. Country's crazy
 
 
3 hours later…
11:20 PM
@AndrasDeak humm, not garbage, but if its zero, there are infinite amount of orthonormal eigenvectors that would fit the equation, no?
 
not all of them, but many of them
 
that would mean that all of R^n is the kernel (linear combination of eigenvectors with the same eigenvalue are eigenvectors with the same eigenvalue)
 
so, its late and I am tired, but:
if all the dots are in the red line, then any green vector orthonormal of the red vector is valid, no?
 
those two eigendirections have different eigenvalues
 
11:24 PM
yes
if all the dots where in a line with the red one, then the green one woudl have eigenvalue 0
 
if you mean "any multiple of the green vector is an eigenvector" that's always true for any eigenvector
@AnderBiguri yes, and there would be 1 eigendirection: the green one
5 hours ago, by Andras Deak
it's still a 1d linear space (c*v) as long as the kernel (the linear space spanned by 0-eigenvalued eigenvectors) is 1d
const*v is trivially an eigenvector with the same eigenvalue. Always.
 
yes, so that is what I meant, I explained myself badly perhaps. Eigenvector algorithms will give you rand*greenvector ig eigenvalue_gree=0
 
No.
 
some
no?
 
eigenvector algorithms should normalize eigenvectors in some specific way, either unit l2-norm or unit maximal component or something
the constant factor ambiguity is universal
 
11:27 PM
mmm I am quite certain ive seen this before but im too tired to argue :P
 
well, you may have seen a shitty eigenvector algorithm :D
when you're more rested I'd love to know what you had in mind, if you find the time eventually to look it up
 
so I do believe you, as Its been quite a while since I played with these thigns, years in fact
will try
 
either the code was shit or there's a misunderstanding
but no pressure :)
this is just for fun
 
maybe I just was wrong :/
fun of me T.T
kidding, I 'd also want to know if I imagined this
or if it happens
 
@AnderBiguri hehe
 

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