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Sam
7:46 AM
@flawr hahaha, potentially.
 
 
1 hour later…
Sam
9:12 AM
@AnderBiguri did you say GPUs dont like branching code?
 
9:33 AM
@Adriaan don't jump out the window. Damn, will I be convicted for murdering you know? Why would people suddenly start doing things if you tell them not to? Reasonable people looking for help with their questions, anyways. — DonQuiKong 8 mins ago
Am I missing something here? I'd say people, especially those with less than average command of the English language, might miss the word "don't", but will think twice when jumping out of a window, right?
As in: it's quite a leap from doing something innocuous, albeit wrong, or doing something which as a very high chance of directly inflicting bodily harm
 
9:47 AM
@Sam yup
@Dev-iL I refuse to hack Java!
but you are right
@Sam a branch will generally make other threads in the same warp (32 threads are concurrent) wait if they took the other path
So while if(true) a=1;else a=2 does not slow things much, longer ones will
my current code is very dependent on branching by definition and my GPU is 75% of the time idle
 
10:12 AM
@AnderBiguri, nice post here
I linked one of my posts to it.
 
Thanks :D I dont remember it :D
2 years ago! :D
 
Yes @Ander, I'm in the mood of reviewing old posts these days
 
@Adriaan I have no idea what either of you are saying but no time to read context now
 
@AndrasDeak The discussion is about the No MCVE close text; they want to edit it to state that the code must be in text, not pictures/videos. I argue that putting the word 'picture' there, is like saying 'don't think about pink elephants'
 
@Bebs :D dont go back to my older ones, they are probably crap hehe....
 
10:17 AM
@AnderBiguri don't worry :)
 
In your latests question, I think the problem is that symbolically you can not do b==0, quite related to the symbolic indexing post you linked (and the one you answered!)
because symbolically and numerically in MATLAB b==0 means completely different and unrelated things, and possibly the MATLAB symbolic engine is not powerful enough to catch this
 
@AnderBiguri Yes I think I'm getting it now since I studied about symbolic concept
A user left an interesting comment about that, I'm encouraging him to write an answer, but you can too
 
I only suspect that this is the case, unfortunately I don't know enough to answer it confidently
 
@AnderBiguri thanks, maybe I'll try something... one of these days.
 
11:04 AM
@CrisLuengo documentation should count as double, in lines
 
@AnderBiguri or @AndrasDeak I want to make a nomenclature in my thesis (list of symbols); what's the 'common' way to do that? I can of course make a table, list the symbols, what they mean, and the page where they first occur, but doing especially the latter by hand of course means I can't change a thing in my thesis after I made the nomenclature, as then my page numbers change
 
I've never seen the page number in a list of symbols
 
Ah, so no "introduced on page X"?
 
no, not that I have seen. Generally its just a list
at the same time, I just plainly refused to make one for my thesis because I though it was useless, as all of my symbols are introduced in the test next to the equations
 
I'll ask my supervisors, because most of my equations/symbols are introduced in the 3 pages I have on the linear Radon transform and the CG afterwards
 
Sam
11:13 AM
@AnderBiguri I can use polymorphism to some extent when branching state etc but I don't really know how to get around conditional evaluation of primitive types
 
what do you mean?
I understood nothing of that sentence, becaus eI also have no idea what you are doing
but this is a low level assembler code-level issue. Higher level abstraction won't make the problem go away
there is still phisically 32 threads in a CUDA code that need to be executing the same thing for speed, and they will stop to wait for other threads if they are behind (i.e. in a longer branch)
 
Sam
I'm thinking high level conditions. Sorry
 
like?
I mean, this is for kernel execution. when you code a kernel, it will need to be low level or semi-low level (if you use pycuda or something like that)
If you are using inbuilt fucntions that run on GPUs, those will be optimized inside
 
Sam
I was thinking in terms of my actual functionality if state = no then create this object else create that object
 
I can nto answer more without knowing what you are doing XD
objects are not that much used in CUDA kernels, AFAIK
 
Sam
11:21 AM
Yeah ignore it, I don't have enough understanding to actually ask a question, I'm just trying to conceptualise it. I need to read.
 
11:50 AM
@Adriaan yeah, page number not needed. But you can always hack up an index for it
 
@AndrasDeak ta. Given all my expressions are within 3 pages, and symbols are explained right after I introduce them, do I need a nomenclature?
 
12:15 PM
Wow, I told someone to stop speaking German in SOCVR and suddenly I'm compared to a Nazi boss...
 
12:27 PM
Olaf? Panta?
 
Former is suspended already; the latter with a new Austrian friend of theirs
Rene kicked them both, and I modflagged for good measure.
 
Shame I can't seem to find anywhere whether chat-flags are handled already
 
That feature doesn't exist
@Adriaan I wouldn't bother
 
12:51 PM
@AnderBiguri you know stuff about tomography and Radon transforms; does the following make sense when I try to explain why I am using this specific transform:
> The Radon transform keeps connected points in time-space connected in the transform domain, i.e. a continuous reflector will show up as a continuous in the Radon domain as well. This means that spatial continuity factors into the transform, providing information on the image beyond what a Fourier transform would do.
 
1:19 PM
"as a continuous"
 
decent amount of snow overnight \o/
 
1:31 PM
@ballBreaker I want snow as well :(
 
@Adriaan Sounds OK, but you are doing weird radon transforms
So I cant say 100%
 
1:45 PM
@AnderBiguri pff, define 'weird'. I might as well call your definition of Radon weird :D
 
With the difference that my definition of Radon was proposed by a guy surnamed Radon
:D
 
pff
 
@Adriaan 😃 I've been waiting for it and I'm so happy it's here
 
@ballBreaker At least in Zürich there are an average of 20 snow days a year, as opposed to the 1 or 2 here in the country
Still not great, but slightly better
 
but thats Zürich
 
1:56 PM
snow days?
as in cancelled classes?
 
if you add a radious of 50 km around the city, Im sure the average increases a lot
@ballBreaker as days wich contain, you know, snow
 
I always forget that universities get snow days ':D
 
@ballBreaker No, as in meteorological meaning snow :P
 
Oh
That's like, nothing
There's snow here from Nov-Apr usually
That's why I was confused
We call snow days here, days when it's so snowy that schools are cancelled
 
ijsvrij (ice-free) we get once every few years
 
1:58 PM
In Spain if it snows the schools close, but because everyone is so excited that they just dont go
 
hahaha
 
nothing to do with limitations of transport
 
I know when I had spanish exchange students, none of them had seen snow outside of going skiing in the mountains
 
When I was in Luleå snow started 27th September that year, and didn't melt till long after I was gone, somewhere in May (I left in January alas)
 
They were all ~15 years old so I guess it must be really really rare
 
1:59 PM
@ballBreaker I am from the northest of Spain, and in the city it snows 1 day every 2 or 3 years
 
Oh okay, yeah these were all from Madrid
so that makes sense
 
I live not too far from the mountains, so I had access to it for about 3~4 days a year, if I were to go to the mountain
 
Ooo nice
You're still in UK now though, right?
 
yes yes
 
@Adriaan this song is off the hook
I can't get enough of this albunm
@AnderBiguri I can't remember, did you end up switching to industry, or did you stay in research?
I seem to remember you dabbling with the idea of making more money
 
2:06 PM
haha I alway ssay that
but I am such a researcher by soul
Im in the university of Southampton
 
Ahh okay so you decided to stay ahah
Makes sense, you're good at what you do
 
Thats what I tell myself :D D:
0 publications in 11 months D:
 
bahahaha
Well I mean, same here :D
 
yeah, well they pay me to publish xD
 
bahaha yeah, minor difference I guess
 
2:10 PM
ououuo I have questions @CrisLuengo :D
QUESTIONS
nah, just the one, of KDtrees: I see how they work, and they are nice, but I have a software constrain: structs and classes in CUDA are a nonononoooo
because they reduce massively memory reads
x1000 slowdown is possible
 
@AnderBiguri solution: don’t use CUDA. :)
 
so, how do I store the information? how can I smartly store what a KDtree is in few arrays?
 
A struct is just a way of collecting variables. Sounds iffy
 
I mean, I can think of it, just asking if there is a clear way of doing it
 
But a tree structure requires pointers and stuff, and that is bad.
You can use an array, each node has the same number of children, so you can do imdex*4 to get the first of the 4 consecutive children. Like in a heap data structure.
 
2:15 PM
but perhaps I can add this information into the tree. Like, divisions are 2^n right? so I can add the division information in an array as [div1 div2 div2 div3 div3 div3 div3, ...] in such a way that I know where it splits and how to index it
 
Or 8 in 3D
 
well in a KD tree its always binary division right? not like quad/octrees
 
Yes, that must be possible. Let me think about it a bit more.
Yes, so 2*imdex
 
I am also on it, bu tI am a bit hangover today so its hard.
 
why does my phone keep correcting index to imdex?
 
2:18 PM
> IMDEX Limited / Real-time subsurface intelligence solutions
damn recruiters
 
You need to store the axis along which to split, and the split location. Two values. Two arrays if you can’t do structs.
@AnderBiguri lol!
They’re everywhere!
 
but you can also set up a ordering of the axis right? I can split the dimensions in order, as in d1,d2,d3,d1,d2,d3,d1 until stop criteria
so I can make my algorithm know in which split index I am, index%3 is the axis I am splitting
or I am missing something?
 
@Adriaan I’m confused by this. The normal radon transform (straight lines) turns a line into a point. There’s no continuity there, it’s a single point. Maybe it’s different for your crooked transform?
@AnderBiguri you can do that, but you might have branches where there is nothing to split along a given dimension. It might be sub-optimal.
 
@CrisLuengo but a point is connected. A Fourier transform has no spacial information about frequencies, 2 frequencies that are together in the fourier domain mean nothing spacially. I think this is what he means. 2 data poitns together in radon do mean they are next to each other somehow
@CrisLuengo I see
However, for a continous domain, this wont really happen much right? If I sample R^3, then its very unlikely that I can not split a domain by its median
while if we are taking about integer spaces, it can happen more
 
@AnderBiguri yes, two points next to each other lead to two lines with very similar parameters, so they are close together.
 
2:25 PM
@CrisLuengo I have hyperbolic events, thus they map to ellipses in the Radon domain
 
@AnderBiguri Aren’t you splitting triangles? Maybe that’s a different problem. Sure, a continuous domain with equal sizes along all dimensions can be split systematically.
If one axis is much larger than the other, you would get more square branches if you can choose the orientation. But that might not be important either.
 
@CrisLuengo I am splitting tretrahedra mesh, but they are in R3, very unlikely there is no point that they have the same value, as I will use their centroids as input for the kdtree
 
@Adriaan Ah, I see. But yes, since the radon domain has two spatial axes (distance and angle usually) the physical distances are preserved somehow.
 
I also have another question, how do you store the information of the bins, which triangles the bin contain? You make a Nbin X NelementBinarray and store the indices of the points?
 
@CrisLuengo I'm not so much concerned with distance, as with the fact that if two points are next to one another in x,t they will be as well in the Radon domain (regardless the transformation, right?)
 
2:35 PM
@Adriaan Well, lines can intersect at 90 degrees, they’re two points far away. The points are close if the line angles are similar and they are close together.
@AnderBiguri Well, I hadn’t thought that far yet. Yes, you need to store a triangle index in each leaf node. How do you know it’s a leaf? Yeah. I’ll have to think more about this, it’s not trivial.
 
Also, I have an extra problems
triangles are not points
2
so I think I need to have triangles in more than 1 leaf
so I can not have 1 array size(triangles) with a leaf ID
That was my first though, but I think it wont work. fortunatelly adding a bit more memory may not be a problem so storing a NelementinLeafx nLeaf array may not be such a big problem
 
@AnderBiguri that will make an awesome out of context star
 
@AnderBiguri When you're far enough away, everything is a point. ;)
 
Here I come, sharing wisdom to you, the ignorant populace
 
2:47 PM
pearls before swine
 
"triangles art not points" claim'd the prophet. Ander 45:12
(Matthew 7:15) :D
 
lol
 
3:02 PM
@AnderBiguri you can store vertices instead. For each vertex you store 3/4 triangles it belongs to.
 
no that does not work. A vertex can belong to any amount of triangles
in fact it will be minimum 3/4 triangles it belongs to
but it could be 500
 
3/4 triangles. Good thing triangles aren't points because you can't divide points.
 
but I am good with having triangles in more than one leaf. Ultimately I need to compute triangle-ray intersections. So I will find which leaf the ray intersects and then compute all triangles on that leaf
@AndrasDeak XD
 
3:17 PM
@AndrasDeak But you can divide triangles. Is that proof that triangles aren't points?
 
of course
 
I think I got it @CrisLuengo . I will have 3 arrays.
1: Splits. I will split x,y,z and will have depth n. Splits will contain 2^n values of the split. If a higher node is the last leaf I will fill it with dump.
2: Leafs. size(numleafs), the index of Splits that are not divided anymore.
3: Tetralocations: nleafs x nmaxtetraleaf. Just the indexes of tetrahedra that are from that specific leaf
this will do, I think.
 
@AnderBiguri If you need to find triangles that intersect a specific point, or triangles that intersect a specific region, you should use R* Trees. They specifically allow to store things that are not points.
 
hummmm now that I had an idea you break it, you evil mastermind
let me read on that
 
3:22 PM
Ruddy Trees, with censorship
 
63
Q: What is the difference between a KD-tree and a R-tree?

zjffduI looked at the definition of KD-tree and R-tree. It seems to me that they are almost the same. What's the difference between a KD-tree and an R-tree?

 
hum I am not sure, I might prefer kdtrees I think. Because as what I want to do is minimize the amount of leafs that I need to operate on (the expensive stuff is ray-triangle intersection) binary trees allow me to know that my ray will, at most, intersect with 2 leafs. R-trees can overlap, so I might need to check more leafs
I think D: its Friday 15:30, my brain is ded
 
@AnderBiguri vrijmibo
That's the word you're looking for
 
@AnderBiguri As I understand it, R*-trees will give you a list of triangles that a point intersects with (since they potentially overlap). If you want "thick" rays, you can query with a rectangle (or box in 3D), and you get a list of all triangles that intersect the given area/volume. I have never implemented this tree, I've used the one that comes in Boost Geometry, so I have no idea of the complexity.
 
3:33 PM
@Adriaan vrijdagmiddagborrel wtf your language
 
@AnderBiguri oi! Don't mess with this very important concept of our culture
 
I talked about Huygens today
 
@CrisLuengo Ahh I see, you are thinking that you just a list without duplicates (because you just call unique() in the result of teh query) and then you can check those
 
@AndrasDeak hah, could you pronounce his name properly?
 
I need to think about this more, with mroe time :D thanks
@AndrasDeak me_irl
 
3:37 PM
@Adriaan I tried
 
@AndrasDeak wow you've gotten old!
 
:D
 
huh? he looked like that when I visited him
 
marriage takes its toll eh
 
3:44 PM
@AndrasDeak You can say that Dutch "g" also if you speak Spanish or Yiddish. And I'm sure there are other languages that have that sound. It's a wonderful sound if you like to swear! :)
 
GILIPOLLAS!
 
^^^ That is the one!
(but it actually only works for Spanish speakers from Spain, in South America they totally ruined the sound...)
 
JESUS GIL! :D
 
4:15 PM
j*der
@CrisLuengo I think they have a similar sound in arab
I knew an andalousian-marocan-spanish-c++ guy and I remember we had a discussion about similar sounds between these languages
 
one of those languages is not like the others
 
@AndrasDeak Dutch and Yiddish are Germanic languages, Spanish is not?
 
4:31 PM
@CrisLuengo maybe spanish had celtic influences (this sound seems to be in celtic too)
 
I'm getting triggered AF in the Java chat
 
there were celts in the north of Portugal
 
@Bebs That could very well be. But it could also be from the Moors (which spoke Arab, and occupied Spain for several centuries). There are tons of words from Arab origin in the Spanish language.
 
@CrisLuengo Curiously, this sound doesn't exist in portuguese
 
The mysteries of language... I love learning about how they evolved, but nobody can ever explain why they evolve in a specific way and not in another.
 
4:55 PM
@CrisLuengo sure, though I meant c++
 
@AndrasDeak Does C++ count as a Germanic language? It uses English...
 

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