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9:54 AM
I'd echo Luis, knee-jerk reaction to change is always bad, but in a week it'll probably look fine
 
 
1 hour later…
11:13 AM
yeah I agree with @Wolfie, I will likely forget about it in a week :D
 
11:23 AM
hello elephant man, how are you doing?
 
Good good, ticking along
Not enjoying the weather these past weeks
 
crappy in the mainland?
its actually sunny in the islands
 
Yea, been the coldest April since decades. Had snow in early April, rain since Easter. A few nice days, Sunday was 25C, but those are few and far between
 
25C here means second degree burns :D
just kidding, its been quite good :)
hos teh covid situation there, bit better? many restrictions?
 
Situation has been improving the last few weeks. Terraces are open since a month. Probably a bad idea back then, but we're now at R roughly 0.85
The weather helped in that aspect I'd guess :p
 
11:27 AM
oh nice!
happy to hear that
 
They opened the vaccination dates for everyone on a first-come-first-serve basis, so even stay-at-homes like me could get an appointment; we're both due for the first week of June and the first week of July for the second one. We can then hopefully go back to NL for the first time in a year afterwards
 
nice! that is also super good news
As I "work" for the NHS, I am getting mine on Friday! super hyped about it
but AZ, which means that I will get the second one in 3 months
 
@Adriaan awesome
@AnderBiguri also awesome
 
11:49 AM
yeah, I will be much more chill, knowing I have very reduced chacnes of getting it and spreading it. That said, the uk is in super, super good state now. Who would have said that in 2020
 
@AnderBiguri On to the next crisis! Have fun with the Scots and (Northern-)Irish
 
hahaha yeah, there is that.... I kinda feel for them, I doubt they'll get it, but they have solid reasons to want independence
I am now a "citizen of the world", or just a dude Living in London, which is kinda the same thing really. Yesterday I had some Lithuanian product that was supposed to be Hungarian sausages with Pierogi, and today tamarillo for dessert. May go to the italian coffe shop later.
sometimes one forgets that lives in the UK
 
12:07 PM
Isn't one of the big fears of the Scottish not to be admitted into the EU, because of Spain's stance towards seperatist regions? I've heard at some point that Spain does not recognise any seperatist regions as independent country, for fear of loosing face, and with that Catalonia, in their own country.
 
But now Spain says "its a complete different story, we are Europeans"
To be fair, Spain has less fear of loosing face, more and more
 
There was an interesting "row"(-ish) last month in football; apparently Kosovo is due to play in Spain at some point and people had suggested they can't fly their own flag, nor play their anthem, due to Spain not recognising them as an independent country. This was rendered moot by the football assosication, stating that e.g. Wales and Scotland also operate their own team/flag/anthem as "part of a bigger nation", but still
 
because last time they violently attacked old ladies voting, so they have already gone all in on the "look bad" part
 
Also I don't believe Scotland can declare its own independence, even if they have an overwhelming vote on the matter it could be veto'd by the British govt, and likely would be
 
Spain has started to say more and more "well those are different situations" to all those. Also if Scottland becomes independent, and Spain tries to veto, the big EU coutries are going to send an email titled "FWD: this iw how we are going to fuck you if you don't comply"
 
12:11 PM
@Wolfie yea, that's this looming constitutional battle of which Sturgeon says "Bring it on!"
 
@Wolfie yeah, same that happened in Spain really. The ultimate last call is on the goverment, and I kinda not see BoJo agreing to any of this
 
@AnderBiguri all the SNP in jail for high treason, or in asylum in Brussels etc. Not too great a prospect to be fair
 
Haha yeah, it's a political win-win for her because she can rally support and feel like a champ, then say Scotland is oppressed if they're barred from leaving (gaining more Scottish support) or rejoin the EU on leaving the UK (gaining more Scottish support)
 
nah, I don't think UK will be as crazy as Spain, they will just ignore the SNP and just that.
 
Sturgeon has lost power due to labour losing power. When the govt didn't have a majority, it was more important to have Tory seats in Scotland. But now it's not so critical while Starmer is working out what he wants to do
Anyway...
 
12:15 PM
also Scottland is very 50/50 for independence. I think its a too close call to make this big decisions. Not that any of that stopped Brexit, but 50/50 should be a tie, even if its 49.5/50.5, for stuff this important at least.
 
Yeah should need a super majority
A while since I've popped in, missed much action in the chat lately? I feel like there have been fewer interesting questions lately, maybe I'm just getting old and picky
 
Last time was something around 48/52 right? With some people mentioning the EU membership, through the union, as being in favour. That might tip the balance the other way now, but yea. I'd say at least 60% (preferably the 2.3rds majority) needed
@Wolfie Same here :P I barely come by anymore
 
@Wolfie I agree with your assessment here actually. But also, I have been much more apathetic since the pandemic, so maybe indeed I am also getting old and picky.
 
I used SO mainly as a distraction from work, but there has been less need for that lately. Given everything at home is already distracting enough
 
or maybe just a normal cycle of SO question answering. It gets repetitive and we get tired
 
12:18 PM
Haha yeah maybe my work habits have changed and my volunteering with it... Definitely close-voting more than I'm answering which didn't used to be the case. And it's not even September!
@Adriaan yeah that's probably it
 
However its also likely that due to the pandemic, many more people have asked "silly" questions that they woudl have asked their TAs, but now have no access to them
online teaching has been tough
 
Ah I hadn't thought of that
 
I already made a large shift from answering to curating, especially in the SOCVR rooms. Now I don't even have (official) MATLAB access anymore and attempting to learn Python, so even less inclination for me to spend time in the MATLAB questions
 
anyway, gotago make some food! chat to you later
 
You just learning python for yourself or for work? At one point I wanted to move away from MATLAB to have a broader skills based but just locked in a longer term contract at work so going to be on MATLAB for the foreseeable
 
12:23 PM
@Wolfie the latter. I'm going out of academia and knowing only a 6000 EUR/yr licensed language just isn't very popular with companies
 
Haha that's what I meant about skills broadening, but my work has a huge site license and it's ingrained in everything we do, so I'm safe as long as I don't move 😁
 
12:37 PM
@AndrasDeak quick Python question: the course I'm following uses PyLab, rather than matplotlib. Syntax is, as far as I can see in this course, very similar. What's the difference and why would one prefer one over the other?
 
@Adriaan pylab is legacy, don't use it. It's a combined namespace of numpy and pyplot, coming from matplotlib
 
Interesting that this MIT course uses it in that case. True, course if from 2016, but still
 
The pylab API (disapproved)

Warning

Since heavily importing into the global namespace may result in unexpected behavior, the use of pylab is strongly discouraged. Use matplotlib.pyplot instead.
@Adriaan it was probably legacy for long by then
 
I could ask a question at their forum, but there are only TA's working. So probably no useful answer
Köszönöm!
 
There's nothing to ask. You could suggest that they follow best practices, which is probably pointless. Something something academia :P
 
12:58 PM
bah, it makes sense, they made a 2016 course and simply they dont have the manpower to redo it, I assume
 
 
1 hour later…
2:17 PM
> pylab is a convenience module that bulk imports matplotlib.pyplot (for plotting) and numpy (for mathematics and working with arrays) in a single name space. Although many examples use pylab, it is no longer recommended.
This was already there in version 1.5.3. The line in the docs was (according to git blame) last touched in 2014.
got deprecated in the docs mid 2014, with issues like github.com/matplotlib/matplotlib/issues/3115
But yeah, it's not reasonable to expect people in academia to follow best practices this fast
 
3:09 PM
@AndrasDeak mostly because its time requires on top of the 60h/w timetables
 
3:28 PM
Right. And not typing plt. in front of every command makes creating those lecture notes so much faster!
 
hahaha
 
Pylab is obviously an attempt at capturing the MATLAB crowd. And academia is a MATLAB crowd.
First you get them to move over, later you worry about getting them to use best practices.
 
industry uses MATLAB more than I thought though
 
True. I think that all those engineering students learning only MATLAB in college pays off. Cheap academic and student licenses is the best investment they can make.
 
3:46 PM
travis-ci.org has had this message banner at the top of the pages for many, many months now:
> Please be aware travis-ci.org will be shutting down in several weeks, with all accounts migrating to travis-ci.com. Please stay tuned here for more information.
I guess "several weeks" means 50?
 
hahaha
the main thing I know about travis is that every 2 weeks I get an email from one of the OS projects saying "oh dang, we ran out of travis credits again :("
 
Ouch...
The only thing I know about Travis is that it's frustrating as hell.
The macOS build there keeps breaking, and takes at least 2x as long as Windows or Linux just because it starts with 10 minutes of upgrading packages.
 
I think the solution has been: move to github actions
 
Yes! That is exactly what I have been thinking of.
But then I need to find out how to do all of that on there, and it's so complicated always.
The only reason I have a Travis test thing is because people volunteered to set it up for me. :)
 
hahaha
fair
My CI in TIGRE is "I run some things, nothing seems to break"
spoiler: it breaks often
 
3:53 PM
most of time because of Travis?
 
haha, no, simply because I do not have any CI other than me testing random crap
 
I run the tests here before committing (on macOS), and when I push to master, Travis runs the tests again, and fails (on macOS only).
@LuisMendo The MATLAB request jumped towards the top, it's 4th right now, at +24.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:15 PM
@CrisLuengo \o/
Closely followed by Numpy
 
 
1 hour later…
6:25 PM
Some crazy footage from what's going on near Tel Aviv now: facebook.com/scoops.rotter.net/videos/543419147029572
 
damn that's so pretty
what's currently going on right now? I've seen an increase in posts about Israel air striking palestine
Is this because of the human rights report?
nvm just usual israel-palestine stuff
 
Without going into too much politics, basically "bombing each other" sums it up
 
expensive fireworks
 
@Dev-iL yeah haha sounds about right
'the usual israel-palestine stuff'
 
That's your humanitarian aid being put to good use
 
6:38 PM
we should just sink the gaza strip into the sea so nobody can have it
 
That's a shame, it's some prime real estate (beach strip), basically Portugal.
 
hmm nobody wants portugal except for portugal though, maybe spain
but by the sounds ofit, maybe global warming will take care of it
 
@Dev-iL But putting it under the sea would create new a beach strip...
 
Which is also longer ;)
 
if we define a beach as "the proximity of where the sea ends" there would be four beaches after sinking!
 
6:45 PM
@Dev-iL thank god facebook autoplays a live-stream of a guy playing farming-simulator right after that
 
@flawr the natural continuation, no doubt
@AndrasDeak why 4? I counted 3
 
@Dev-iL what exactly am I looking at?
missiles vs anti-missile system?
 
looks like that
 
fireflies in the sky
 
Iron Dome?
 
6:47 PM
Yeah, mostly anti missles though
 
yep
 
@Dev-iL sorry, I meant 6 :P
3 on land and 3 underwater
 
Ah yes, underwater beaches... We have an old movie that jokes about that
 
@AndrasDeak here so you understand youtube.com/watch?v=3f9Qy4-tBFM
 
expecting a rickroll
 
6:55 PM
lmfao
 
I understood "hamas" in that video
 
it has captions btw
 
"inside israel there is a state.. that isn't yet a state named Gaza"
lmao
 
and at the end there was shalom and bye-bye
 
 
4 hours later…
11:24 PM
Just found a fun thing in numpy: Basicall np.r_[a,b] interpretes a and b as slice objects, we can e.g. replace a by 2:5 and b=0:2 and we get np.array([2,3,4,0,1])
 
yes, all the square-bracket helpers can do that
same logic as mgrid/ogrid
 
but if you then try the typical "circular-rotate-by-3" np.r_[3:, :3] it's a little bit unexpected that you will get np.array([0,1,2,0,1,2])
can you guess why? (I found out:)
 
What is "3:" even supposed to be?
I'd expect that to raise to be honest
 
yes, it can't possibly know the total lenght, right?
yeah I thought so too, but the key is that it doesn't actually behave like a slice object here, instead it just plugs these values into np.arange()
 
But why?
Is that documented?
 
11:28 PM
I assume this is the case because np.arange() doesn't have keyword arguments, only positional arguments
so even np.arange(start=3) will just be interpreted as np.arange(3)
but np.arange doesn't throw an error when you do that, unlike range()
 
but 3: should correspond to slice(3, None)
 
oh I just consulted the source and not only the docs, this is funny:
def arange(start=None, *args, **kwargs): # real signature unknown; NOTE: unreliably restored from __doc__
    """
    arange([start,] stop[, step,], dtype=None, *, like=None)
    """
so the python function np.arange does take keyword arguments
but the docstring says it does not!
 
I think the reason is that slice(3, None) and arange(3, None) do different things
 
and the comment says the real signature is not known
 
I wonder if this is a bug
 
11:33 PM
well I would have expected np.arange to behave more or less the same as np.array(range())
 
in sane cases it probably does
the issue is with insane cases
you can't have an (a)range of indeterminate size
 
sure
but the docstring lies about the positional-arguments-only
ah no wait
everything before * is positional or keyword, right?
 
anything with a name is keyword. Anything up to and including * is positional.
actually you can do / now to do positional-only args in native python, but that's fairly new
 
it's func(positional, only, /, keyword, and, positional, *, keyword, only)
ninjad
hm I don't get it, the relevant part of the implementation of r_ is here github.com/numpy/numpy/blob/main/numpy/lib/index_tricks.py#L346
so for np.r_[4:] it calls _nx.arange(4, 0, 1) (start=4, stop=0, step=1)
 
4: should be slice(4, None)...
In [20]: range(5)[3:]
Out[20]: range(3, 5)

In [21]: range(5)[slice(3, None)]
Out[21]: range(3, 5)

In [22]: slice(3, None).start
Out[22]: 3

In [23]: slice(3, None).stop
In [24]: np.arange(3, None, 1)
Out[24]: array([0, 1, 2])
this is the crux of the issue ^
which means it probably has a bug report and we're stuck with the behaviour anyway
this was fixed in December github.com/numpy/numpy/issues/17764
good catch
 
11:53 PM
is that already in the newest versions?
it should be in 1.20
no I actually have 1.20.2 which came out in january after that PR
I don't get it
 
@flawr takes a while for PRs to percolate into releases
especially micro releases are usually bugfixes for important things
 
ah I thought they went into master
ah it did go into master but what's in master is not automatically in the newest versions, right?
 
@flawr They probably do, but I don't know how release branches are made. I just know it takes a while.
 
thanks for the links to the issue/pr btw!:)
 
no worries
 
11:58 PM
so actually I really just wanted to find a good way to "circ-shift" a numpy array by some integer
 
np.roll
 
ah much better:)
there isn't even a np.rick
 

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