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4:42 AM
[Kesarling He-Him] @Html.TextBoxFor(expression: staff => Console.Write("Staff Added"), format: "", htmlAttributes: new { @type="submit", @value="Save" })
Error:
The type arguments for method 'IHtmlHelper<Staff>.TextBoxFor<TResult>(Expression<Func<Staff, TResult>>, string, object)' cannot be inferred from the usage. Try specifying the type arguments explicitly.
[Kesarling He-Him] What more is required?
 
5:08 AM
[milleniumbug] I saw him asking the same question on another server, and we already answered him
[milleniumbug] (TL;DR: TextBoxFor is specifically for text box, not the submit button)
[Kesarling He-Him] Wait, you're mlem-cham?
[milleniumbug] yes, I'm the same person
[Kesarling He-Him] Why two usernames?
[milleniumbug] you can have a server specific username
[milleniumbug] on Discord
[Kesarling He-Him] I didn't know that!
[Kesarling He-Him] how do we add it?
[milleniumbug] "Edit Server Profile" when you click on your own nickname anywhere in the Discord
[milleniumbug] it specifically allows you to add a server specific nickname, and if you are paying for Nitro, also the profile picture
 
 
2 hours later…
7:03 AM
[Squirrel in Training] GoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOd Mornin' neglecterinos!
 
 
2 hours later…
9:15 AM
[Kesarling He-Him] You've got that pasted somewhere in a notepad, haven't you?
 
I assume he has a userscript
 
[Squirrel in Training] Actually it's a compiled .exe
 
what a madman
 
[Squirrel in Training] a real madlad
 
mr5
ladmad
 
9:25 AM
chatrat?
 
mr5
how not to become stupid at decision making.
 
try logic
 
mr5
I'm about to do something where the PO is unaware of.
I mentioned it on my tech design document.
I messaged it to her.
But I fail to understand that it's the PO who should be deciding if we would pull it off.
correctioned*
 
Post Office?
 
mr5
product owner - the person who talk to devs and non tech people.
basically a bridge.
 
9:30 AM
you wörk for the PO
the PO decides what you wörk on
 
mr5
my mind sometimes wanders a lot. I should be focusing only on what's agreed upon but I'm making my task more difficult.
yeah
 
you could convince the PO to change their mind
 
mr5
have you ever done the same thing in the past?
 
I have done everything... except love
 
mr5
yeah, I have convinced the team to create a ticket for it. because it is clearly out of scope and needs a lot of design first.
@Wietlol it's too early to become drunk in the morning.
seriously though, I think in my past experiences, I'm the only dev that does stupid decision making.
 
9:33 AM
stupid decision making? absolutely
the only dev? probably not
 
mr5
I mean, I'm narrowing it down to the part where you would get more or less work. I think most of the devs that I have worked with would choose less work. So they passed that category.
 
9:48 AM
anyone here uses graphql?
 
mr5
I have no xp but maybe we could rubberduck.
 
that wont work
I need someone with experience with schema stitching with model reuse on collision of incompatible models
 
mr5
then we will request feature for whatever we come up with.
oh that's easy - ask on SO
 
its friday theeeen
 
meh
 
9:53 AM
then saturday sunday WHAT
ITS FRIDAY THEEENNNNNNNNN, THEN SATURDAY SUNDAY WHAT
 
mr5
@Wietlol use same language for server side and client side.
so you would reuse the model, no?
 
that is a fabulous idea, for a completely different situation
 
[milleniumbug] shouldn't the models be generated from graphql?
 
mr5
So I just noticed. When someone said an idea where it's completely off from what's being discussed or asked, those people "in charge" that is good with communication would still say something positive about it, but would deny their idea. I need to learn that skill.
 
[milleniumbug] note: I have no idea how graphql works
 
9:59 AM
@milleniumbug stitching is the process of combining two separate graphql services into one
 
mr5
same. kek
 
so you merge the schemas
this obviously is subject to collisions and the resolution of those collisions should (logically) support various strategies:
1 error
2 prefix
3 merge
 
mr5
I am actually pushing the idea of using graphql in my past job for the sake of just using it.
Use case is to merge or batch API request into one.
 
you could say that it is an error and the schemas shouldnt have two types with the same name
you could say that it is fine to have the two types but the stitcher would have to prefix them to avoid the name collision
you could say that the models should be merged (either because they are identical or because their properties are overlapping sets)
for now, Hot Chocolate just says "we only support #2"
 
mr5
@Wietlol how about diff tool with vcs on it?
 
10:02 AM
but it is #3 that we need
(or rather a combination of #2 and #3)
 
mr5
it sounds like you want an automatic merging tool specifically for schema structure you're working on.
 
yes
 
mr5
but git seems doesn't have a solution for that too.
so you probably need to do it manually atm while there's no tech for it.
or maybe you can identify in which part of the schema the conflict occurs.
 
I mean... you are absolutely wrong, but I appreciate the effort :)
 
mr5
parse it, and rearrange the values.
 
10:05 AM
the schema merging happens automatically by Hot Chocolate
 
mr5
wth is hot chocolate
@Wietlol I have nothing to do atm so I just blab stupid shit here :D
 
a product of ChilliCream
 
mr5
I'm guessing those people who named their tech after food are Mac users.
2
 
mr5
are the schemas you're talking about similar to [field { name, type, size, ...}, ...]?
 
10:09 AM
somewhat
 
mr5
but I'm seeing solutions on SO on how to do merging schema on graphql though
since we can't answer that, I do have a question though. Do you think it's a wise decision to use graphql for batching traditional webapi API requests?
 
wise? no
should you regardless? depends
 
 
2 hours later…
12:31 PM
[Captain Obvious] what even is graphql
[Captain Obvious] I've heard of it but no iodea what it is
 
it is basically a routing table... and a query language
you put it behind a http endpoint and you register resolvers into the routing table, and then you have a webservice over graphql protocol
 
mr5
or basically, you let the client make the data queries.
is that correct wiet?
that's what I remember about that shit.
 
the client throws a query at the server, in the query you have a list of functions you call (these would be similar to just making rest calls)
in the query, the client also specifies which fields they want to receive
so they wont receive all the fields, which reduces network noise
you could also easily specify that some fields require more permissions so if the client calls a function and demands that field to be returned, they need to be sufficiently authorized
usually, it is absolutely useless, but the idea is based on the capabilities rather than the use cases
 
mr5
@Wietlol it sounds like adding "please" at the end of the sentence.
 
?
 
mr5
12:47 PM
Shouldn't the authorization be based on the information that's coming from the server side for its integrity.
otherwise, it sounds like you just need to have the correct syntax to bypass that rule about permissions.
 
in our case, the client sends the authentication and authorization using a JWT token
the server obviously validates the token
 
mr5
oic
 
but that JWT token defines which authorization the client has
 
mr5
I thought it's just a syntax.
 
oh
the schema defines which authority is required
the client only specifies that they want to receive the field
 
mr5
12:49 PM
well, that's valid and follows the industry standard.
 
so far, I also fail to see the use case...
apart from it being fancy
and bleeding edge
and half börk
 
mr5
oh. like the Claims thing.
 
it is a strong typed schema... with limited type support
you have polymorphism, but you cant use those on input types
you have union types, but you cant use those on input types
you have a type tree, but no inheritance
 
@mr5 booo
 
mr5
@Wietlol use case for graphql?
@Harry Mac fanboi spotted.
 
12:55 PM
no lol apple can fuck off
 
@mr5 ye
 
mr5
I think it's more on which end the development or maintenance will be held.
 
?
 
mr5
probably useful for those devs that's focused more on client side development and they just want to throw the server, keep it running indefinitely and never touch it anymore.
and and and useful for mega software like Amazon store where they require a bunch of API calls.
 
you still need to write the functions on the server side
 
mr5
1:00 PM
really?
I thought it will automatically handle the queries for you.
 
but yea, you could just expose your entire backend processing and storage and handle access permissions through authorization
the query will be handled by the routing table
but you still need to provide a bunch of functions with an input/output model and have them access whatever they need
 
mr5
wat
 
it is not a query language for databases
 
mr5
so graphql is just extra dev effort?
 
it is a query language for web services
 
mr5
1:02 PM
oof
 
graphql is an alternative to rest
or whatever you use
freaking soap
this is basically graphql hello world
 
mr5
it seems it just adds more processing time, thus would increase the costs of the services you're paying.
 
depends
either graphql does the routing or asp.net does the routing or express.js does the routing, etc
(in some cases, you still have 2 routing orchestrators in sequence, but whatever)
the increased processing time is negligible
 
mr5
well, in your explanation it sounds like graphql can just be added on top of an existing web apis
 
it could
but generally speaking, you dont need the full asp.net any more
 
mr5
1:07 PM
wdym by routing anyway, like resolving the path/to/resource?
 
yes
in http that is done in the url, in graphql that is done within the query
 
mr5
hmm I think, in that case, grapql can just automatically write every function you need as long as it has the schema of all your data models
 
probably not
 
mr5
getModelA(), ...
getListModelA(page, count), ...

getCompoundModel(a, b)
 - getModelA()
 - getModelB()
 - trimProperties()

BAM! GraphQL!
I'm not sure what else customization does GraphQL needs from the dev if it can't automate writing those functions.
 
uhm... it can kind of automate those
 
mr5
1:17 PM
writing your API with only UI
soon, non tech peeps can write their own app without coding.
 
generally speaking, I am a great fan of visual code and low code, but it will remain to be coding
a visual code or a low code tool should be designed as a code tool, and after that provide things for convenience
I still want Unreal Engine blueprint level of visual programming
but for web services or command line applications instead of games
 
mr5
for the client side, graphql is pretty beneficial, but I think it's more CPU intensive as compared to traditional REST approach on server side.
 
shouldnt be
or in any case it should be negligible
 
mr5
@Wietlol oh fakk. that's actually very great engineering implementation.
 
@mr5 We covered this in uni and there was an expectation that in the future people can be programming in UML.
It's not too far-fetched, either. We already have some tasks that can be done by dragging around shapes to generate an application.
Might not be the most performant application you can get but the fact that non-programmer can make a mobile app in about an hour with one of these is still impressive.
 
1:26 PM
meanwhile UE blueprints are extremely efficient
 
mr5
@Wietlol it is. on REST approach, if you need multiple models, you need multiple network calls in client perspective. It would be a single network call if the client uses graphql, but the overhead is just forwarded to server.
 
Yes, that's the other thing - you could specialise the visual tools a lot. And by eliminating some general problems, you can make the generated solutions quite performant. In manual code you might need to consider, e.g., floats or negative numbers or nulls and add handling for those but a generated solution can avoid all of that.
 
mr5
@VLAZ is UML just a digram? I'm not very familiar with it.
 
@mr5 Yes. It's a set of well-defined diagram shapes for different purposes. They are supposed to visually describe an application. E.g., a class diagram can show what objects you have. But there are others, e.g., a sequence diagram can describe how a message is handled (e.g., passed to controller, then to class A, then to class B, etc.)
 
mr5
who tf starred my useless messages. I have like 3 starred message there already in just a week.
 
1:30 PM
The rules aren't very rigid but it serves for illustrative purposes.
 
mr5
oic
that's actually very handy.
I think that thing wiet is talking about uses UML-esque too.
dfq
 
Yes. UML isn't the be-all and end-all of all diagrams. The visual tools I've seen are more useful - in some cases some shapes can fit together like a puzzle to signify they do go together. But can't be used with other things. Colours can also be used.
 
mr5
@Wietlol in which part of the game UE blueprint is used?
 
every part?
 
mr5
like, all blueprints, no code?
 
1:35 PM
a lot of games are written entirely in blueprints
the graphics part, the physics part, the ai part, etc
heck, you can write shaders in blueprints
 
mr5
then why can't we do that on WEB APIs!?!?!?!
those things you mentioned are much more complicated than data retrieval, no?
 
yes, but the blueprints are tightly coupled to the Unreal Engine core
so you can only run code written in blueprints by compiling it into a game
 
@mr5 generally speaking, in normal stuff, you would have a function called "getUsers" (REST /users/) which returns a list of users
and you could have another function called "getUsersAdmin" (REST /admin/users/) which returns the same list of users but also their password history, potential bans, flagged messages, and whatnot
in graphql, you would just have one function "getUsers" which returns everything
but only if the client asks for the password history, potential bans or flagged messages, the user needs to have admin permissions
in REST, you have the permissions per function, in GraphQL, you have the permissions per field
then, there is the feature of multiple functions in the same query, which can be chained or parallelized, and which are just a replacement for multiple REST calls, but since they are done entirely on the server, you dont have the added network traffic
which means that multiple function calls can be more efficient
personally, I wouldnt use it for my own projects, because I use a different tool for message serialization, which is much better as a type definition schema and has a much more compact message layout
it just doesnt have the feature of multiple messages or receiving specific fields
but I wouldnt care about it because I remain in control of everything
@VLAZ not necessarily
a good programming language can easily validate a lot of code compile time, just as well as a drag and drop tool can
Java for example is so confident about the generic type safety, it just erases all information about it for performance optimization
if a language has true null awareness, it doesnt have to do null checks which throw the famous NullReferenceException
 
mr5
1:57 PM
@Wietlol a much better language design is not having a type information be erased, since it does not even exist to begin with.
C++? Nah. That shit is close to esoteric language.
 
a much better language design has all information retained in the runtime
and has the compiler remove all information that isnt used
obviously, Mine does :D
 
@Wietlol I mean that a visual tool can even decide the best data type to handle stuff without having to commit to anything. E.g., if I write a method something that adds two numbers, there are many potential problems, like overflows, floating point arithmetic, etc. A general solution for adding numbers is going to have to do a lot more work.
 
I fail to see how a visual language is different in that regard
 
mr5
can there be an instance where you can say "I succeed to see..."?
 
not really
doesnt make a lot of sense
to me at least
 
mr5
2:02 PM
yeah lol
 
whatre u trying to say
 
mr5
does it sound weird for English native?
 
@mr5 yes
 
mr5
succeed is the opposite of fail so...
 
ha
i like it
doesn't make sense, but i like it
 
mr5
2:03 PM
hey
we can push it to the language
if we start using it, then it can be officially valid.
 
it makes sense, but it is a pleonasm (iirc)
 
mate ask english language stack exchange see what they say 🤣
 
mr5
if (not boolean)
if (boolean)
it's like this
 
it is like "I did do it"
which is basically the same as "I did it"
 
mr5
@Wietlol how did you even know this word exists?
 
2:05 PM
not sure id call it a pleonasm
 
I didn't
I just asked Google Translate to make it up
 
mr5
why are people on NL good at English even though it is not their native language?
 
cause youd replace succeed with another word, say 'i can see'
i to see wouldnt make sense
 
isnt a pleonasm the term for words that are redundant by deduction?
"I succeed to see" and "I see" basically mean the same
the addition of "succeed to" has no additional value in this sentence
 
yeah thats a fair point
it all depends on the context for me tho
 
mr5
2:10 PM
@Wietlol eh, shouldn't it be: redundant by addition?
 
redundant as addition
because it is redundant by using the method "deduction"
with the sentence "I see", we can deduce that you succeeded in your attempt of "seeing"
meanwhile in "American Journal of Tropical Medicine and Hygiene", "He did not succeed to find ..."
 
mr5
oh God. My neurons are running out.
@Wietlol I can't understand this.
 
@Wietlol but thats the past participle
 
you wouldnt succeed to see, youd successfully see
 
mr5
2:14 PM
pls eggs blane.
 
or succeed in seeing
 
mr5
@Wietlol I am unable to can.
 
> henceforth I shall be unable to can
that one?
although, "unable to can" sounds incorrect to me
but that might just be because of translation
 
mr5
that is. a meme sir
 
ah, I did not fail to see that it is in fact incorrect english
modal auxilary verbs have no "to <verb>" form
such as "to may", "to will" and... "to can"
 
mr5
2:20 PM
you seem to be outdated of our generational memes
 
@mr5 I am aware of the meme
hence the use of "henceforth"
which, if not in meme context, I would never use
 
mr5
The "to can" sounds really funny :D
 
because it is correct english, just with a different meaning
 
mr5
@Wietlol sir. the input for the duration to your collapse after post function seems to be quite a little low now than usual.
 
the verb "can" is both "being able to" and "to put (often) food in a can"
@mr5 the random duration generator that feeds a duration into the "Thread.sleep" function failed to be unable to provide a duration in the range of 5 seconds to 2,5 minutes
 
mr5
2:29 PM
I am able to conclude that is not the desired behavior, henceforth, what I think you should do is to consider changing the min input from your random generator for the duration parameter that will be feed to your "Thread.sleep" function needs to set a little bit higher than what is current, which is 5 seconds.
I am unable to can to edit my message now. fak
 
> that will be fed*
> needs to be* set
> than what it* currently is*
 
mr5
it is what it is
 
I am more surprised that you accept that it is in fact a Thread.sleep function :)
 
mr5
yeah, cuz I know for a fact you don't use coroutines in Kotlin :D
 
meanwhile in Java: "Thread.sleep is async"
 
mr5
2:39 PM
wait wat
is that true?
I think wiet is drunk
 
2:56 PM
no
look up project loom
basically what Java did is make threads async
so when you have an async thread, you get everything as async just out of the box
obviously, they are not called "async threads"
 
mr5
magic: image will not collapse.
 
youtube.com/watch?v=UqlF6Mfhnz0 iirc, this explains most of it
and, it actually works really well
I cant find the article any more that shows all the common usages of paralellism and concurrency
 
mr5
10 years and counting in the making
 
true
 
mr5
izz not done yet?
 
3:06 PM
you can see how unimportant async is
 
mr5
when will be the beta release?
 
it is done and it is in the 18 preview
which is next version
for... march iirc
 
mr5
is project loom all about threading?
 
yes
primarily using virtual threads as opposed to operating system threads
 
mr5
haha that guy is funny xD
concurrency example is: talking while drinking water.
 
mr5
3:30 PM
@Wietlol on the example in the video, the reason why Thread.sleep appears to be "async" is because Thread.sleep binds or refers to the current thread it is sitting.
 
which is not an OS thread
@mr5 it is a very good example
probably the easiest way to explain the difference between concurrency and parallelism
 
mr5
Afaik, the traditional threads in Java are implemented based on what the OS it's sitting provides. Like, Java have the IThread and OS is the implementor.
 
kind of
and Java now provides their own implementation which is a virtual thread
 
mr5
Thread.sleep in Java is not async.
 
which has the same performance (if not better) as async
and which makes all blocking calls non-blocking
@mr5 ironically, "async/await" in C# are also not async
 
mr5
3:37 PM
how so
@Wietlol I think this is common for almost all language that has this feature.
and each implementation doesn't seem to be very different.
What I think it only does is calling a syscall level to actually just block the thread for a certain amount of time.
or call the interrupt at a specified amount of time to unblock the program counter.
oh I'm wrong.
The responsible software for sleep is the OS scheduler.
 
@mr5 not necessarily
C# has OS level threads, but they disrecommend to use threads in favor of async processes because async has a much lower memory and processing footprint
so, for concurrency and parallelism, Task is preferred over Thread
in Java, it is all the same thing
a virtual thread is a Task processor
one OS thread can be attached and detached from virtual threads in order to actually do the work
this actually gives the developer the control over the paralellism and concurrency of all the processes
which is much easier control and much more control than async gives you
on top, it is consistent, parallelizing cpu workloads works the same as parallelizing non-cpu workloads
and it has no added noise that async/await produces
 
 
2 hours later…
5:48 PM
[Kesarling He-Him] Need some help with my MVC app
[Kesarling He-Him] Edit works as expected
[Kesarling He-Him] Delete works as expected (changes the DB value), but gives the following exception: InvalidOperationException: The relative page path 'Details/1' can only be used while executing a Razor Page. Specify a root relative path with a leading '/' to generate a URL outside of a Razor Page. If you are using LinkGenerator then you must provide the current HttpContext to use relative pages.
[Kesarling He-Him] What's wrong?
 
[HttpPost]
[ValidateAntiForgeryToken]
public async Task<IActionResult> Edit([Bind] Department newDepartment)
{
    var oldDepartment = await _departmentRepository.GetDepartmentByIdAsync(newDepartment.Id);
    if (oldDepartment == null)
    {
        return NotFound();
    }
    else
    {
        await _departmentRepository.EditDepartmentAsync(oldDepartment, newDepartment);
        await _departmentRepository.SaveTransactionAsync(true);
        return RedirectToAction(Url.Page("Details" + "/" + newDepartment.Id));
that's the code
stupid bot
 
6:14 PM
[Kesarling He-Him] Don't bother
[Kesarling He-Him] stupid mistake
 

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