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13:07
\o
so my prez is trying to overturn election results
maybe I should've listened to the people who've been calling him a fascist this entire time
you live in US?
13:11
I offer you my condolences
07@DAustin
how did the interview go ?
he really can't stay because once Jan 14 12pm (or whenever inauguration day is) happens, the power automatically switches to Biden
true
20th iirc
japan is fucked now too
poor shibas
!~shiba
13:12
if he stays in office the 20th, then he will be dragged out
in which case, probably directly into prison
shibas are prepared though
@Wietlol that would be amazing, but he won't go to prison
depends
he still has 2 months to absolutely flerk shit up
if he goes, so does every other living president except Carter
I mean, at this point, he is just trying to make a mess for Biden
13:16
Also lawsuits will be rolling in within the hour as soon as he stops being president
he is denying the rights for the new president (which are iirc in the constitution)
remember how trump couldn't even start his presidency until the university fraud case was finished? ;D
@Wietlol midnight 20th iirc, he can stay on 20, but must not be in the WH on 21st
@Wietlol He is not denying anything, is just not colaborating in the transition of power
which is a huge risk
endangeres lives (covid and security information passing to the new team)
13:21
@Cleptus I think biden even said that...that the more Trump denies this, the more people will die of the virus
isnt he supposed to give a tour around the white house and answer questions the new president has?
Yup, Biden warned about it indeed
but all the top secret information should start going into the new administration
Otherwise USA would have long time problems with terrorists and the like
It is not only covid related deaths, just saying
@Wietlol That thing is what it is supposed to happen from election until Jan. 21st. And what Trump is denying
isnt that constitutional?
or just good habit?
I guess it is not, first time happening, nobody thought a president would be so mad, so no ruling it int o the constitution
13:26
disclaimer: I have not read US constitution
then I must be confused with something else
I have read some times the spanish constitution, it is well damm written
@Cleptus hahaha...well funny you say that because the delays caused by the Florida bs in 2000 has been cited as a reason why 9/11 was able to happen
I havent read our own constitution
but we are just decent people
what countrypeople are those again..?
13:29
lunch time, have fun guys
the fine people of the fine country
which country?
there are also the not-so-fine people from the same country
but we generally ignore them
if it's the UK, I'm gonna laugh at you
unfortunately our government doesnt really ignore them
it is across the water from UK
the Netherlands
13:31
oh ok
I thought it was gunna be France once you said that lol
4 years ago, we probably had no issue with anything really
but now we also have the conspiracy theorists and such
I suppose Trump is indirectly responsible for that as well
everything went to hell mid-2010s lmao
well... not in the netherlands
but you just said it did
Ryan Donovan on November 20, 2020
Welcome to ISSUE #48 of the Overflow! This newsletter is by developers, for developers, written and curated by the Stack Overflow team and Cassidy Williams at Netlify. This week: Turning a coding career into an RPG, the workflow for game database content, and how you can still open source a project in a big corporation. From the blog…
mr5
mr5
13:51
@Wietlol about the double instance of singleton: thinktecture.com/en/asp-net/…
I have it quite simple tho
I have different assumptions of singleton and transient
it is unrelated to lifetime
it is related to sharing
transient services are not shared between different usages
while singletons can be shared
that is basically how I look at them
Singletons *will be shared
Scoped services can be shared
in most cases, I dont mind multiple instances of a singleton
It seems those don't need to be singletons then?
they dont need to be, no
but they arent required to be isolated
so they can be
singleton is my default
I swap to transient when necessary
13:59
My default ended with Singleton now Scoped is my friend
I dont think I even have scoped in most cases
[Squirrel in Training] kids why u going nutz?
mr5
mr5
now this is asmr: 9gag
what a waste
14:14
question: how screwed up does somebody have to be to see covid rates spiking in a place where one person they hate is living, and their thought is "...nice :)"
[Squirrel in Training] BECAUSE WE CAN
[Squirrel in Training] Sorry didnt reach quesiton
mr5
mr5
see*
[Squirrel in Training] mr5 lets play some dotka
mr5
mr5
ping over 1000 if we play together =P
have you tried to up your mmr this season?
[Squirrel in Training] I once played inaustralia
[Squirrel in Training] accidentally
[Squirrel in Training] Was the best techies game i ever had
[Squirrel in Training] I denied a tower after glyph went trhough xD
[Squirrel in Training] I han't dota this season
14:19
Hey All, the ASP.NET System.Data API contains DataTable, DataColumn, DataRow, etc. However, is there such a thing as DataCell? (i.e. an intersection of a DataColumn and DataRow)
?
[Ntohl] dota 1 times... skady refresher lvl 5 dagon...
[Ntohl] was it refresher? Something boosting int like madness
mr5
mr5
@Squirrelintraining lol that's pure luck right there. unless you get the lvl25 talent damage
[Squirrel in Training] I activated the glyph at 30hp
[Squirrel in Training] then checked the glyph timer on the tower
mr5
mr5
@ntohl the refresher meant to refresh the skill if it's cd. I'm not sure if it boost int also
[Squirrel in Training] and attacked right at the right moment
[Squirrel in Training] mr5 come discord u pleb
mr5
mr5
14:22
@Squirrelintraining what's your steam id?
mr5
mr5
I have < 20 friends and most are always offline.
@Hans1984 sorry was working lol
interview went well, we offered and he accepted
so now i can concentrate on my getting my code to a presentable state xD
[mr5] add me. steam id: 407771596
so he doesn't just go "WTF?!" when i show it lol
@Mr5 Steam username: Metanapour
14:24
[Ntohl] I just can't remember how it went... I think there were no refresher, but I drank 100 l from the bottle in a match as techies. That's for sure. And soul ring on constant cd
mr5
mr5
@DAustin lucky guy
@mr5 trust me, he'll be thinking the opposite in about 2-3 months
@DAustin good good
Hey All, the ASP.NET System.Data API contains DataTable, DataColumn, DataRow, etc. However, is there such a thing as DataCell? (i.e. an intersection of a DataColumn and DataRow)
?
[Squirrel in Training] good luik daustin and congratz
14:25
@crazyTech nah you need to use indexes
@Squirrelintraining cheers me dears, im starting my job hunt next week, wehn im down to 6 weeks remaining
[Ntohl] I remember now... I had sheep stick...
@crazyTech i.e var myVal = row[2]
will give you the value in the 3rd column of that row
@DAustin Thanks
ok
[Squirrel in Training] Sheepstick best tsick
[Squirrel in Training] now reefered to hex
14:27
@crazyTech if you have the chance, look into LINQ & Entity Framework, it might make your life easier
requires some set up but once youve got it accessing data become insanely easy
@DAustin Thanks again
no worries, glad to assist
[mr5] which server are you from @Noobi
[mr5] @DAustin added you to steam. but you don't play dotka doh
@mr5 lol didnt realise thats what you wanted to play, soz :P
14:59
Hello, I am wondering how to use linq for a simple iteration
[Squirrel in Training] it depends muhamed
[Squirrel in Training] what do you want to acchive.
[Squirrel in Training] Also for a simple itteration it would be better to use a foreach loop
list.Select(...)
[Squirrel in Training] ^ disagree
[Squirrel in Training] you can also do that with any other linq method!
[Squirrel in Training] And i guess he wants to do .ForEach()
15:01
ForEach() is not in linq
it's in List's implementation
[Squirrel in Training] buuuuuuut then again
[Squirrel in Training] What else could "[Muhamed Krlić] Hello, I am wondering how to use linq for a simple iteration" mean
TempC is randomly generated however when I run this only one TemperatureC gets picked up, in ex. TempC = 0
so it iterates from 1 to 5 with same tempC
you have to move your rng generation inside the lambda index => {}
I want to apply condition on which Summary is exactly chosen by the else if conditions above
so it's like `{ var tempC = rng.Next(-20, 55); ... ; return new WeatherForecast
{
Date = DateTime.Now.AddDays(index),
TemperatureC = tempC,
Summary = summary
}; }).ToArray
move them inside the lambda as well
but I would do foreach as Squirrel in Training suggests
so
not foreach, but for
15:08
Its working now, thanks!
var forecasts = new WeatherForecast[5];
for (int i = 0; i < 5; i++)
{
	var tempC = rng.Next(-20, 55);
	...
	forecasts[i] = new atherForecast
            {
                Date = Date...
            };
}
Yeh your random number only gets set once, you need to create a new number on each loop, as @ntohl points out, you need to move that declaration inside the loop, so it gets a new number on each pass
ah nvm lol
and return forecasts; at the end
15:24
I would still use the enumerable range tho
return Enumerable.Range(1, 5).Select(index => {
	var rng = new Random();
	var tempC = rng.Next(-20, 55);
	var summary = Summaries[0];
	// whole if else chain

	return new WeatherForecast
	{
		Date = DateTime.Now.AddDays(index),
		TemperatureC = tempC,
		Summary = summary
	};
})
.ToArray();
just moving more parts into the select
Jack., funfriday
although, I would also recommend to get that whole summary thing into a separate method
let me handel this jack
Fun friday everybody!
seein gun monday/ in discörd
ah, yes, missed that :D
what..?
did they get rid of Flash on archive.org?
 
4 hours later…
mr5
mr5
19:33
Botler, asdasd
Well thanks, mr5. You broke me.

System.IO.FileNotFoundException: Could not find file 'C:\bot\netcoreapp3.1\netcoreapp3.1\so-chatbot-firestore-key.json'.
File name: 'C:\bot\netcoreapp3.1\netcoreapp3.1\so-chatbot-firestore-key.json'
   at System.IO.FileStream.ValidateFileHandle(SafeFileHandle fileHandle)
   at System.IO.FileStream.CreateFileOpenHandle(FileMode mode, FileShare share, FileOptions options)
   at System.IO.FileStream..ctor(String path, FileMode mode, FileAccess access, FileShare share, Int32 bufferSize, FileOptions options)
mr5
mr5
Botler, learn a aaaaaaaaaaaa
Learned the command a
mr5
mr5
Botler, a
Well thanks, mr5. You broke me.

System.IO.FileNotFoundException: Could not find file 'C:\bot\netcoreapp3.1\netcoreapp3.1\so-chatbot-firestore-key.json'.
File name: 'C:\bot\netcoreapp3.1\netcoreapp3.1\so-chatbot-firestore-key.json'
   at System.IO.FileStream.ValidateFileHandle(SafeFileHandle fileHandle)
   at System.IO.FileStream.CreateFileOpenHandle(FileMode mode, FileShare share, FileOptions options)
   at System.IO.FileStream..ctor(String path, FileMode mode, FileAccess access, FileShare share, Int32 bufferSize, FileOptions options)
mr5
mr5
19:35
ugh. the json file didn't get into deployment.
20:06
There a reason I can't get the com object into a standard class lib?
Seems to have worked before, I moved it over to a new workspace and now I don't have the Add COM in the Add-> SubMenu
20:31
Strange a bunch of files were marked for Delete in TFS too
like months ago.. Wtf tfs
20:42
Hi there everyone!

I'm wondering if anyone familiar with MSTest could give me some advice.

We're using MSTtest as our test runner and a lot of our tests relying heavily on the [DynamicData] attribute. One of our code style requirements is that the first argument of every test is a human readable string that describes the specific scenario being tested in the test case for a given piece of dynamic data. That argument is meant to be passed to the `because` argument in any assertions that are performed.
21:14
Hey, all! I usually hang out in the Python chat, but an old (ca. 2007) C# project is popping its head back up. The project consists of SOAP clients and servers, and looking at the code, there is a lot of junk to manually construct the XML for the SOAP messages. (Which probably wasn't even necessary in 2007, but reasons.) Is SOAP still a thing? Is WSDL->C# possible?
The app was complicated by the fact that there is no pure client or server in this system - both ends are both client and server, to support async SOAP messaging.
[Captain Obvious] Althought it's legacy stuff and not available in .net core, it IS available on .net Framework
I just fired up the 2019 Visual Studio Community version to start dusting off the old project code with newfangled tooling.
[Captain Obvious] I believe Visual Studio even has a nice interface where you can feed it a WSDL and it will generate everything you'll need
Wunderbar! I'll give it another go and see if I can undo the grossness of manually composing XML using string concatenation. (The project also used Boo, which was a novelty at the time, and very nice for doing Pythonic-type coding against .NET, and so was able to build DLLs and freestanding EXEs.)
[Captain Obvious] I mean there are some SOAP tools anyway so even if you couldn't simply use the WSDL and have it done like magic, you shouldn't have to arse about with manually building XML
[Captain Obvious] That is unless your soap service isn't standards compliant
[Captain Obvious] (looking at you Royal Mail)
21:20
It *is* 2020, I suppose.

Oh, if there is a standard, it is compliant with it.
[Captain Obvious] I mean who even creates a brand new API in 2015, and the ONLY way of interacting with it is a non-standards compliant SOAP api
[Captain Obvious] So putting the fact that SOAP is ancient and nobody bothers using it anymore where possible, they also fucked it so hard that STANDARDS COMPLIANT SOAP ENVELOPES WOULD NOT WORK
[Captain Obvious] And it would reject any envelopes which were proeprly crafted
[Captain Obvious] The only other SOAP api I have to deal with is the eBay API. Their "older" trading api is SOAP based, which is fair enough considering it's at least 15 years old, and it works with standard soap envelopes
Oof! I think I touched a nerve... Well thanks for the encouragement. I may be back after scraping my knuckles on some 14-year old code (though I may go looking for some 12-year old Scotch...)
[Captain Obvious] And they even provide a .NET framework SDK for interacting with it. Which is nice
[Captain Obvious] Royal Mail didn't even bother making an SDK for theirs
[Captain Obvious] Yeah you reminded me of that horrific project I worked on for a couple of weeks as a feasibility check of "can we work with these new APIs". Of course the answer was no.
This is an API for interacting with semiconductor processing equipment. 'Twas cutting edge for 2003, especially considering that they were still using RS-232 for this integration into the 90's.
Ok, then, I'm off to crank through some WSDL - cheers!
[Captain Obvious] Good luck withg your antique project
mr5
mr5
21:31
I have been called by a recruiter from a different company she's advertising. I told her my expected salary, but reading online, I realized I under valued my skills and experience.
[Captain Obvious] What was your "expected salary" relative to what you're on now (taking into consideration things like changes in travel time etc)
mr5
mr5
Q: Do you think changing my expected salary will affect their hiring to me?
I've increased my expected salary up to 90% from my previous one
[Captain Obvious] Wait so you've asked for 1.9x what you currently earn?
mr5
mr5
And they're offering a remote work with an irregular schedule on site meeting
@Botler my previous salary is less than average to what I should be earning
And just got sad again after reading my fellow devs with their earnings
I'm bad at negotiation and communication.
[Captain Obvious] But at the same time, you should check how localised your "average" is
[Captain Obvious] Because it might be that average figure you're looking at might be representative of people in another area
mr5
mr5
21:38
Yeah. I've checked for 4 different websites the average salary
[Captain Obvious] For example, if I looked at average salaries for what I do, I should ignore basically any london pricing
[Captain Obvious] Because the CoL in London is way higher
mr5
mr5
Yep. I'm in the same area as them.
I should be earning this salary 3 years ago but oh well, communication skills really matter.
[Captain Obvious] Oh okay then. Well if you were being grossly underpaid before I think aiming squarely in the middle of the average range is a good plan. Makes it look like you're not being greedy, because people who overestimate their worth can put recruiters off
mr5
mr5
Yeah right. I'm also trying to be careful but I'm tempting to increase it at least to 2x.
I'm thinking of reasons to stand my ground when they asked me why my expectations are so high relative to my previous salary.
[Captain Obvious] Don't tell them your previous salary
[Captain Obvious] Simples
mr5
mr5
21:48
The recruiter also told me that a Xamarin skill is very rare here. I could factor that i think.
Too late. I already told the recruiter. Do you think she already told it to the company?
Some dev on Reddit advised on lying about the previous salary. He's earning thrice as my previous salary with only 5 years of XP
[Captain Obvious] Probably not told the company, but probably will either lowball you hard or outright say no
mr5
mr5
Lowball?
[Captain Obvious] Like suggest a way lower figure
mr5
mr5
It's an automatic no. I think I could resume job hunting until January. Not really sure if it will hurt my career on staying unemployed way too long.
does that make sense to you?
mr5
mr5
21:59
Not really intelligent idea. I think a semi good decision for me right now is just to get employed, then quit in February to find a job overseas :)
job hopping? why is that a good idea
mr5
mr5
Salary of devs in developing country really sucks
[Captain Obvious] Yeah but why not start applying overseas now
[Captain Obvious] Overseas apps often account for time to move and stuff I think
mr5
mr5
@ABuckau it is. Look at history of FAANG developers. They switch jobs for like 3 times in a year.
as an employer, is that supposed to mean something to me? (hypothetically). if i saw a person jumpin around i would assume theyre either a rockstar or a problem. you able to convince them youre a rockstar?
mr5
mr5
22:03
I did and they rarely respond to my application. And most of the time, those remote work needs to be based near their HQs and unlucky me, they won't build HQ here.
@ABuckau nope. I don't plan to go on that extreme job hopping. Maybe 1job / yr should be enough I think
we have different definitions of extreme.
mr5
mr5
Is 1 year already an extreme to you?
depends on the type of work..freelance, no, seems long (and really you have the same job: self employed) , but if working for software companies, kind of yes. but im also not normal..so consider the source :)
[Captain Obvious] IMO 1 year isn't really a long time, especially for larger companies or larger projects
[Captain Obvious] It can take months to get your head around a larger project, especially one which has multiple components
[Captain Obvious] Where I work I'm the principal developer of everything we have, been doing it for 5 years and occasionally something will come up in a part of the system I forgot even existed
by all means..if you have to take a shitty job to be able to provide for your family..that's admirable, and I would expect you only to stay as long as needed ...but if you've had 5 jobs at tech companies over 5 years, I personally would assume you either don't get along with coworkers..or can't do your job. or you're a rockstar..but u don't seem to have the confidence for that (no offense).
mr5
mr5
22:15
That's a really good position you have there Lee. I would do the same if have the opportunity although I don't plan on staying more than that.
if you are..keep applying to good jobs and ask for the sallary you think you're worth -- eventually you'll meet a company that thinks it's a good fit.
depends on the pay. if it's enough..5 years of good pay is good :p job security can be a value in itsself. especially if you're happy w/ the work.
or it's easy work and you have time for other things etc. : p
mr5
mr5
I only support myself luckily so there's that arrogance coming from. I don't consider myself a rockstar cuz I'm extremely bad at Math and communication.
you're not wrong.
< 3
mr5
mr5
=P
what do you do? I mean..what type of development?
(short version..I'm not going to pay you lol)
mr5
mr5
22:21
Mostly front end in mobile development. I do have a lot of experience outside too (desktop, IoT, simulators, 2D games, backend)
@ABuckau are you an employer though? 😂
no..I meant, don't church it up, because it won't matter :p
I am very cheap..be glad.
so..can I give my opinion of mobile apps?
mr5
mr5
Church it up?
(like wear special clothes to church) -- make fancy
mr5
mr5
Oh. Not really. That's in plain definition.
garbage man --> sanitation removal technician :D
indeed. and it came after I told you to give a short one...so we'll never know if you were going to try.
mr5
mr5
22:25
I think I church up that IoT => Bluetooth
@ABuckau go
mm..i'm not sure how to describe it. But most apps are either ...small, and small maintenance cost. or big, and make lots of money. (?) I mean...what businesses do you expect to pay you to make apps? Something like facebook has teams of developers that make lots of money (big) vs. ..idk a small example
but if you make small apps..it will be work to constantly find new customers who are willing to pay you decent money for a few weeks (months?) to build their app for a couple months -- this is where working for a software company is probably easier. If you want to earn very good money (ie. facebook, etc), you probablyl have to be really 'good'.
or maybe you make a game like Flappy Birds and make millions for an easy app. it's possible. but not average.
common*
ofc some are in middle...apps that need lots of maintenance/updates for a long time.
what do you see yourself doing? What job types you are applying for?
mr5
mr5
I'm planning to specialized in Android specifically. Those companies that do external devices to integrate their hardwares. It's a rising tech (medical devices, cars with assisted driving like comma.ai, ...)
Doing front end really bores me so I'm also trying to go back to C++
mm..so that will be many different companies. small/medium projects that might take 6mo-1y (?) ..definitely a possibility if you're good enough. then again, probably performance is not critical so maybe not a requirement as long as u can get it to work :p ...so all about your attitude.
if you can show up and make it happen, you'll get good money. if you show up and start asking non-technical people how they want you to implement technical details..probably not good.
make a good portfolio and start applying.
you have some example projects to demonstrate your skills?
if you do good work, bad math and communication can be overlooked..
22:39
[Captain Obvious] Having an example that you can demonstrate in the event of an interview is a good one
[Captain Obvious] I demonstrated my pet project in my interview and that's probably what got me the job
and preferably not just a simple app that shows what could basically be a webpage. unless that's what you're looking to do..
mr5
mr5
@ABuckau performance really matters in mobile development as compared to developing in desktop. As I see it, my target company are really hard to convince specially with my current skills so I'll try to come up with my own product if I finally settled. That'll be a long journey :)
mm..depends.
[Captain Obvious] I think it's also largely dependent on who is interviewing you. If you're interviewing with someobody technical, (IE an actual software PM or something), show off the magic internals. If you're interviewing more of a HR type person, have something that looks slick
if you're using an app to change some settings on an rgb light..performance isn't really a thing (unless it's really complex lights). maybe a bad example.
22:42
[Captain Obvious] Performance matters in any case where your "market" can use other things
if I use a phone app to control an IR remote..
[Captain Obvious] However if you're working on a project which is internal tooling or for a contracted client, performance can slip with not much penalty
or, be an IR remote*
heh..nowhere to go but up ; )
[Captain Obvious] Like the warehouse app that I made runs like absolute ass after a while. It's got huge memory leaks
mr5
mr5
22:44
@ABuckau I do have a lot in my portfolio but they're all crap to my standard. One thing I'm semi proud of is the MCU simulator, which have a crappy design but good concept and I learned a lot from it.
[Captain Obvious] But they don't have any other option to use the system without it, so they have to suck it up and deal with it
[Captain Obvious] I added a button to the main menu to reset the app which the users can use to easily reset it 😄
ya..uve talked about it before. probably Stockholm syndrome :p
[Captain Obvious] We jumped into Xamarin way before it was production ready
mr5
mr5
@Botler lol that one from Xamarin?
[Captain Obvious] Yeah, started working on it in early 2017 before Xamarin had even hit GA
[Captain Obvious] In the time since they've totally changed the way projects are structured twice now I think
[Captain Obvious] Most of the new Xamarin tooling doesn't work properly with it
[Captain Obvious] It desperately needs doing but I'm working on the API that provides it all of it's data first.
22:48
"database...we don't need a database..we have json"
mr5
mr5
And it still version < 3 right? That wouldn't probably get accepted in PlayStore/AppStore by now.
[Captain Obvious] Uh no we've been keeping the Xamarin framework up to date ish
[Captain Obvious] One sec I'll check whar version it's on
mr5
mr5
@ABuckau o.O?
cap did it, not me
[Captain Obvious] New Xamarin forms projects use the new SDK style csproj format don't they?
[Captain Obvious] NOT THIS ONE THOUGH LOL
[Captain Obvious] Oh right here's a fun one too
[Captain Obvious] I have to keep an old version of VS on my PC in work now
mr5
mr5
22:52
Nice. That will do. My previous employer have a Xamarin app started from v2 and still being maintained until now. It's a mix of MVVM, MVP, margin exploitation and God Object. I really wish a good luck to its next maintainer.
[Captain Obvious] Somewhere between VS 16.3 and 16.6 the Xamarin plugins for it changed and now on newer versions of VS it doesn't have the templates for creating new views or whatever
[Captain Obvious] Anyway I'm off, it's almost 11pm
mr5
mr5
@Botler yes. It adapted the .netstandard format already. And you also need to update to AndroidX if you have an Android version
[Captain Obvious] I tried
[Captain Obvious] It did not like it
mr5
mr5
Well, if it's just an in-house app, that's okay. It's only required by PlayStore.
[Captain Obvious] Yeah it is. Although with android OS updates it's getting harder and harder to keep the app able to update itself
[Captain Obvious] Anyway, bye
22:56
love u bye
mr5
mr5
o/
I just realize you didn't get what I was trying to say when I said target company lol. Any, I'm out also. Gotta sleep at 7am

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