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2:00 PM
the ui will work
 
@Hans1984 You should be ok to return it for a full refund within 28 days or something, in the UK its called the distance selling regulations act, you might have to pay for postage, but youre netitled to send it back without reason because you dont get to try it until its at your house
 
@mr5 I prefer to make a web UI, not a desktop UI.
 
but if you have tasted greener grass, the .net landscape is more yellow than green
 
@DAustin true
 
@BlackPanther If you'r ebuilding a web app sure
 
mr5
2:00 PM
oh then listen to these other guys
 
@BlackPanther if you want a web ui, you could just use Blazor
 
@Hans1984 You're in the EU Hans yes?
 
mr5
I only know plain HTML
 
but i dont want to go through all the hassle
I just want it to work and have fun
:)
@DAustin yes
 
mr5
do u guys still write in plain html?
 
2:01 PM
I write ui in Kotlin-React
 
@Hans1984 I think you're covered, I just don't know if the EU has a regulation or if it falls down to your country
but id have thought youd have some sort of distance selling protection
 
or I write ui with Java Swing
 
@DAustin I wanted know how to access a database from a c# program, so I built a Linux console app to do that. Now I want to extend that console app by adding a web user interface to it. Is this possible?
 
@mr5 I use the bootstrap framework for my HTML
 
but then I am making UI that probably no other ui framewok supports
 
2:02 PM
@BlackPanther Absolutely
 
hope it works with my glasses
 
definitely not html based ui frameworks
 
You running it on .Net Core?
 
but i read that should be no problem
anyway
we'll see
 
You should avoid using JavaScript to generate HTMl, its bad for SEO
 
2:03 PM
@BlackPanther you'd have to convert your console application to a class library (or at least the important parts of it)
 
otherwise I will just make a halloween costume out of it
;)
 
after that, you have to make a web app and use those parts of the class library
 
@Hans1984 lol bit pricey but sure :P
 
whatever web app framework works for you
 
hehe
pricist halloween costume ever
 
2:04 PM
@Wietlol You're right there are too many. It seems Microsoft is a big fan of quantity over quality, shrugs
 
mr5
@DAustin that's cheating
 
@Wietlol Personally Id just start a new project and copy the code over
 
^ that could also work
I would recommend keeping the behavior part in a class library though
2
then you can build a ui application over it
 
@mr5 lol if you do full stack development, there's no time for cross-browser testing, use a framework that's done it all already and move on
@Wietlol Second that, I have having to dig logic out of a ViewModel because I need to reuse it elsewhere
 
2:06 PM
@Wietlol Is Blazor a web UI framework?
 
ye
 
It is, but I havent used it yet so no idea if its good
 
iirc, Blazor is the one that tries to use wasm
 
@Wietlol Yeh i think youre right
 
so you can write C# that executes on the browser itself
 
2:07 PM
tbh it was a bit advanced for my basic needs, wouldnt mind trying it out though, its mentioned as a skill on some of these jobs im looking at
 
obviously, they missed some parts and you will have to write javascript as well, but I wouldnt expect it to be 100% working nicely
 
mr5
@DAustin well, my question is for writing plain html only
 
@Wietlol I thought JavaScript and it's frameworks are only for adding interactivity to a web app. Does it also allow you to build a web UI without using any HTML?
 
its kinda like angular, but not
@BlackPanther You'll need SOME html regardless for the browser to be able to display
 
the idea of Kotlin-React is to write everything in kotlin
 
2:08 PM
but that could just be a body tag, then populate it via JS
 
@DAustin Yes.
 
so, html, css, code (behavior) is all written in kotlin
 
mr5
"build html to track their IP using vb.net"
I'm starting to suspect wiet is paid by kotlin group
 
:D
 
@BlackPanther Cool, create a new .NET Core web application project, and just port the code over, or create a Class Library for your C# models and code etc, and reference that in the web application project. Option 1 is easier, Option 2 will be mor erobust allowing to reuse the code in other projects
 
2:10 PM
@mr5 but it works soooo gooood
 
@mr5 Took you that long? I just assumed he wrote the language and has been trying to plug it as much as possible lol
 
with option 2, you can explore different ui frameworks by making different applications using the same core functionality
 
@Wietlol I see thanks. Is ASP.NET Core the only framework for creating a web app?
 
@DAustin shhh, dont mention that Wietlang is actually Kotlin
 
mr5
and who would star a profound message like "ye" by wietl?
 
2:11 PM
@BlackPanther .Net can be used, so Standard, the classic framework, and god forbid VB.Net can be used
 
@Wietlol also I know this web app will have a controller and a model when I create it using the dotnet web api template, but will it have a view as well?
 
iDunno
 
I would go with Core wherever possible though for future compatibility etc
 
just follow a getting started guide and write a hello world app
see how it works
 
plus Core is intended to be cross platform
 
2:12 PM
again, I have 0 experience with actually using these frameworks
 
so if you want to run it through Kestrel on a Nix machine you can
its designed to return JSON/XML for restful/soap apis
Just a standard Web App, you can add API controllers to it though if you want the best of both worlds
Technically you could do it with a web api, but you'r ecreating mor ework for yourself if youre using it to create HTML
 
@Wietlol Thanks, I'll do that tutorial (if it works on Linux) and then try to recreate my console app using Blazor.
 
Just DONT WRITE IT IN VB.NET or I will be very angry
 
mr5
@Wietlol does GlobalScope.launch uses a single thread from the thread-pool?
 
:P
brb coffee
 
2:16 PM
@mr5 iDunno
 
@Wietlol is it just C# that Blazor uses, or will I need to use HTML as well?
 
mr5
@Wietlol y u dunno? u wrote it urself
 
do you think I would ever write async code?
@BlackPanther again, iDunno, just try a getting started guide
 
@DAustin That's interesting. I've been hearing about Blazor for a while, but didn't want to spend time learning it as I thought frontend skills like HTML, CSS and JavaScript are more in demand.
@Wietlol Wait, do you mean that the tutorial you linked needs JavaScript?
 
maybe not the tutorial, but at some point, you will find the limitations of Blazor and have to fall back to the Javascript interop
 
2:21 PM
@DAustin Using the source tag right?
I mean, that's how you embed JavaScript in HTML, right?
@Wietlol Wow, that's nice, maybe there's now a good reason to learn Kotlin. Is there something like that for C# which allows you to write HTML, CSS, and code in C#?
 
nothing powerful enough, no
C# isnt powerful enough to create good dsls for those purposes
Kotlin is one language to rule them all
the syntax and structure are specifically designed to be good at everything
 
@DAustin I pick option 2. So is creating a .NET core web application project an alternative to using Blazor?
@Wietlol I see. So I could use either Blazor, or something else for the UI. What other UI frameworks can I use for a .NET Core web application?
 
Razor, ASP.NET MVC
WebFriggingForms
I assume XamarinForms and MAUI as well
 
mr5
@Wietlol how about coroutines? Do you know how it works internally?
 
partially
there is only one place where I really use coroutines
and that one is doing them in a special way
 
mr5
2:32 PM
can you share some hindsights how do you think it works internally?
My assumption is that, it is associated by another thread, and inside that thread, there's a message queue processor.
am I using "hindsight" incorrectly here?
 
a calls b,
b starts c,
c suspends and returns to b,
b returns to a,
a continues on c,
c suspends and returns to a
^ last two repeat as necessary
ezpz
 
mr5
how does suspend works?
 
Here are the list of all installed dotnet templates:
Which template do I use to create the web application for my app. Is it the web api template?
 
Medi Madelen Gwosdz on October 23, 2020
Welcome to ISSUE #44 of the Overflow! This newsletter is by developers, for developers, written and curated by the Stack Overflow team and Cassidy Williams at Netlify. This week, get in the fast lane and start pooling your database connections, make a CPU out of electronic components drawn by hand on paper, and learn to toggle multiple property…
 
mr5
@BlackPanther blazor or razor
 
2:37 PM
 
@mr5 like black magic
 
@BlackPanther Sorry i was on a break
 
@DAustin You mean ASP.NET, ASP.VB?
 
Well I can tell you what I do atm, but there's more "Modern" ways of doing it
 
mr5
@Wietlol do you think they use a CPU interrupt to suspend a function from running?
 
2:39 PM
just straight C# MVC is what I do
 
cpu interrupt?
 
atm i Use .Net Framework (as opposed to .Net core or standard) for compatibility reasons
but Razor pages are supposed to be a replacement for MVC, but I prefer the MVC pattern
So I have a class library that handle the database access
 
mr5
hey I think I got an idea how that interrupt works.
 
and then reference that in any of my MVC applications to interact with the db in a controlled way
 
if you really want to know how they work, you might want to watch this youtube.com/watch?v=YrrUCSi72E8&ab_channel=JetBrainsTV
 
2:41 PM
I use an insane amount of DTOs rather than ViewModels
 
@Wietlol Do you use intelli J?
 
but that's just my preference, you should use ViewModels when appropriate
 
ye
 
mr5
maybe they manipulate the stack trace, and manually controlling the program counter. every op codes are put inside a single list so that it can easily jump from any instruction.
 
but because i answer to no one, and my code isnt reviewed by anyone, i just write it in a pattern im comfortable with
 
2:43 PM
@DAustin No worries!
 
which will be fun for the guy who replaces me in January if they can find anyone
 
@mr5 the important thing is that a thread is not blocked when it is invoking a suspend fun
that is the basic difference between that and how C#'s async heresy works
 
mr5
in C# async, I can easily grasp how it works, but coroutines is much more heresy to me.
 
@DAustin I think I should start with this instead of Razor like @mr5 suggested, because all I need is the user interface.
 
also look into ViewComponents if you want reusable HTML widgets, rather than having to code them everytime you want to use the same widget, like a dropdown menu for your customers etc
 
2:45 PM
that is because you are familiar with how it works
 
If you're starting from scratch, go with Razor, its the more modern technology and will be better for employment
 
Kotlin's suspend works a lot easier once you get to know it
 
mr5
yeah but I wanna know how it works internally
 
then just search for articles and talks about it
 
mr5
they said you can spawn easily a bunch of coroutines in a shared thread.
 
2:46 PM
If you create a project with an account system with the Identity Framework, then you'll have to muck about with Razor anyway for the user account views anyway
 
@DAustin Just like you and Wietlol suggested I do to convert my console app to a web app.
@DAustin What's the difference between a web api and MVC?
 
@mr5 one thread can process all queued coroutines
 
mr5
yeah amazing right
 
@DAustin does your MVC app have a web api in it?
 
an api will return in JSON format by default, MVC will return the associated View (normally a .cshtml file)
 
2:48 PM
i think it is pretty normal tho
 
@BlackPanther My .NET Core eCommerce site does yes
 
@DAustin Are you a freelancer, or consultant?
 
all you need to do is decorate the controller with [ApiController] at the top
and it'll turn it from return views into returning JSON
 
@DAustin Really? Isn't MVC used by other programming languages, not just C#. Do you think Razor will replace MVC, or will Razor fail to catch on?
 
yee
 
2:53 PM
@BlackPanther MVC is a design pattern, first thought up in the 1970's so yes, other languages can use it
And im just an IT guy/developer for a small company, but i quit the other day so my last day here is in Jan
if you're in the east midlands you can have my job if you want it? xD
 
mr5
@Wietlol this is the secret to coroutine part: youtu.be/YrrUCSi72E8?t=504
 
@BlackPanther If you follow the microsoft docs, theyll say Razor Views are the preferred way to do things now for .Net core web apps, but MVC is still acceptable, its just the older pattern they used
Basically Razor views came about after id already started our big projects here, so we didnt bother converting them across because it was too much work for no gain
and i personally find MVC easier to follow
but you can mix the two together if you really want to break your brain lol
 
@DAustin xD
@DAustin I hope you find a better job.
 
Thanks buddy, so do i
you can tell how engaged i am with it, being so queit on this chat room while im at work lol
 
yeah, good luck !
 
2:59 PM
@Hans1984 cheers my dears
be a while yet, still got 11 weeks left on my notice period :(
plus i have to do the interviews for my replacement, yay
 
thats a long time
 
@DAustin If I was American, that sarcasm would have flown right over my head xD.
 
the jobs i quit I went out with an "Auflösungsvertrag"
which meant I could stop working there that day
 
yeh, ended up making the decision to quit, then look for a job, i was struggling to get one because of the 3 month wait time
 
of course that also meant no more money from that day on
 
3:00 PM
@BlackPanther lol good point i assume everyone here is british
 
@Hans1984 This looks like how I declare variables in Java, except I use camel case.
 
but I just cant work another 2months in a company if I'm already in bad spirits with them
 
@Hans1984 Yeah, completely understand.
You work best when you're happiest.
 
mr5
@Wietlol also, this is where the coroutine concept materializes: youtu.be/YrrUCSi72E8?t=762
 
but I guess if you worked there for a while and you are basically cool with the ppl you can stick it out
was never the case for me..
and now I cant wear those mask for a longer period of time
since im asthmatic
 
3:02 PM
I guess it's kind of like getting a divorce and continuing to live with your other half.
 
so im glad I work from home right now, also theres sometimes no work for a week
 
well ive been here 5 years, the main issue is upper management
 
quite a hustle but hey
 
theyve ran vendor software beyond eol and support, now everything is breaking and i dont want to clean up their mess
also, if anyone's really bored, heres a 15 minute video about TLS
 
@BlackPanther I guess
from the day I resign im done with the company
I think the US is better in that aspect
notice periods are not aslong afaik
 
3:04 PM
well my 3 month notice is both ways
so they had to give me 3 months if they wanted me gone
seeing as id lost my previous job, the security at the time was appealing
unfortunately because i can do my job they kept me lol
 
I never felt appreciated at my jobs
that pissed me off the most
do this, do that
go fuck yourself
 
Guest Post on October 23, 2020
You’ve gone through the motions and play-acted a disaster recovery scenario, but despite spending a lot on the production, it’s not real. What you have is a fairy tale: “Once upon a time, in theory, if everything works perfectly, we have a plan to survive the disasters we thought of in advance.” In practice, it’s more likely to be a nightmare.
 
of course I didnt say that to them
;)
of course this year its extra hard for everyone
 
@Feeds Quiet you!
 
I only just realized @JackSparrow is a bot.
 
3:08 PM
@Hans1984 Yeh that was my worry with the varus lol, but IT industry seems to be doing well at the moment
@BlackPanther lol yeh there's a couple around these parts
 
yeah a lazy, slow bot
 
Nyconing went under my radar for a while lol
 
unlike ny
 
@DAustin he's a bot too?
 
but then ny isnt a rum addict like Jack
maybe thats the reason
 
3:11 PM
What about JamesBot?
 
@BlackPanther YEh but i didnt notice for a while lol
just thought he was someone obsessed with Shiba dogs lol
 
loool
I guess thats my fault
;)
 
I think we can only be certain that Hans1984 is not a bot since he has written messages in German. These bots seem to only be programmed in English.
 
good point
everyone only speaking english is potentially a bot
:o
 
Noooo they're onto me...
 
3:14 PM
So this room is not as active as I thought. I was thinking how come the C# chat room is a lot more active/lively than other chat rooms, particularly the Java one. I sort of know why now...
I think only the JavaScript chat room is more active.
 
IT's all LIES!
pff, JS only matters now because of Angular/React
 
mr5
@DAustin nyc is both a bot and a real person lol
 
before then you couldnt get by being a JS developer alone
@mr5 That makes more sense lol
 
@mr5 What, this is madness.
 
Not saying JS isn't important, but the salaries these days from front-end JS developers is insane
 
3:16 PM
@DAustin do they get paid better than backend devs?
 
Depends on the job, but they can be paid as much sure
if money is your thing then go learn F# or R and become a data scientist
that's where the money is at the moment
 
mr5
just for the lulz. I injected p33k script in my account also.
p3k mimimized
 
when i was younger though, front end people could pretty much only get half of the back end salary
 
@DAustin Wow, which is harder to develop for, backend or frontend?
 
but now JS has come a long way, and there's some really cool frameworks out there, its in high demand
 
3:18 PM
For backend you need to learn a programming language + database.
 
depends on what you're coding tbh, JS can be on the back-end thanks to Node.js
 
For frontend you need HTML, CSS, and maybe JavaScript.
 
you absolutely need some JS knowledge
even if its just jQuery
 
@DAustin JavaScript is trying to eat every ones' lunch
 
you'll struggle without it, its not impossible, but your web app will be very 90s
@BlackPanther Yup, its a bit of a running meme at the moment "If something can be coded in JS, someone will make a framework for it in JS"
 
3:20 PM
@DAustin Many businesses still have websites that look very 90s.
 
Yep, hence the high demand for Angular, Vue and React devs
all those old internal intranet systems need updating, because Chrome wont work with them anymore without displaying a bunch of warnings about security
and if there's one thing that gets non-it managers in a tizzy, its security warnings
"Why is our intranet insecure?!"
because you havent updated it since 2003?
 
I see.
 
@BlackPanther I wish they did lol
our backend is all runnning over an SQL Server 2005 instance
the amouont of issues its age is causing is painful
hence why i quit
 
@DAustin Wow, that's ancient. Why don't they upgrade their SQL Server?
 
because its still working, as far as they can see
apparently security isnt a concern to them unlike myself
so i wanna get out before the proverbial hits the fan and i get blamed for it
 
3:28 PM
My thing with using Blazor to build a web app is, is Blazor a skill that is in high demand?
 
We are in the process of migrating, but management is dragging its feet to say the least
I dont think its in too high a demand
its more of a "nice to have" than a "need to have" at the moment
if it catches on it might become a need to have though
i dont know squat about it though and im not worried
your backend is more important anyways, so if you get C# under your belt youll be fine
.Net devs start at 25K minimum
 
@DAustin data is something that should always be kept safe.
@DAustin It uses C# though, right? So the learning curve is not high.
 
@BlackPanther oh tell me about it, if it gets compromised we're fucked under GDPR ligislation
@BlackPanther In theory, its just personally I needed to prioritise other stuff over Blazor
Like Entity Framework
thats more in demand than blazor, completely separate thing of course but its a matured tech, blazor isnt that old yet
 
@DAustin Are those high paying jobs? Maybe those companies are trying to get away from the JavaScript ecosystem.
 
Not sure, havent looked for the keyword myself, i just look for .Net developer roles, sometimes it mentions blazor, sometimes it doesnt
the issue is availability, if you go with Blazor, you're reducing the pool of potential candidates for job roles
so if someone leaves, itll be harder to replace them than a JS developer
the other thing is to remember its a Microsoft technology, and most Microsoft techs are in response to something that's getting popular
so Blazor is MS's attempt to get in on the Front-End stuff provided by Angular and React
C# kinda only exists because of Java
Azure only really exists because of AWS
and 57% of Azure actually runs on AWS xD
they dont want you to know that though lol
 
3:38 PM
@DAustin Can you tell me which which of the following templates I need for this NET Core web application project?
 
ASP.NET Core Web App will do everything we've been talking about
the MVC variant above it won't do razor pages, that doesnt bother me but if you doig razor pages then youll want the straight web app one
 
@DAustin That's what I used in my C# console application to access the database. Does Blazor not allow you to use Entity Framework Core?
 
errrrr, no idea, in theory it should? but i genuinely have no idea
its why i prefer MVC, its separation of responsibilities is easier for my brain to deal with
the view will never access the db directly under mvc, everything is done via the controller, which usually will call a model to do the actually db calls
Whereas in Razor views you can call the db directly using EFCore I think, but not 100%
as in im not 100% sure about that
 
@DAustin Yeah, EF is pretty much the recommended way to access data in a database programmatically using C#.
 
the idea with Razor Views is to keep the code thats doing the backend with the code that generates the view, so you can do stuff quicker etc, and debug easier
oh i love EF
 
3:43 PM
Autocorrect thinks "programmatically" is a spelling mistake, strange.
 
i use EF6 mostly, because EFCore doesnt support SQL Server 2005, but EF6 does
 
@DAustin lol, are you trying to say that Microsoft are not original. That they are copy cats?
You forgot Xbox only exists because of PlayStation.
I've never thought of Microsoft that way, lol.
 
@BlackPanther lol true, and Sega, the OG Xbox was basically MS taking over from Sega's legacy
Well Internet Explorer only cam about because of Netscape Navigator back in the day, then they tried to use it to lock down the web into their own platform, kinda like AOL tried to do
I only really learnt .Net because it pays more than other Web languages like PHPm, which is what i was using when i was younger
but its not really fair to compare the 2, PHP just doesnt enjoy the same level of investment as C# dies
does*
 
hey just received a mail my package has been sent !
:o
maybe it will be there tomorrow after all
anyway leaving now
happy weekend !
bye guys
\o
 
o/ Hans
 
3:55 PM
HAve a good one matey, enjoy the VR when it shows up!
 
@DAustin In my case, the controller will call the class library to access the database, right?
@DAustin Does the view contain only HTML, since I assume that is the user interface?
 
@BlackPanther It can contain C# if you like
its probable you'll need to use C# in the view via razor syntax (not the same as a razor view, razor views are the engine, the syntax is just the way to use C# code in the view)
so you'll have .cshtml files instead of html files
 
@DAustin Same, but I use Core.
 
then you can use C# by starting the code with the @ symbol
or @{ //Code block here }
for instance <h1>Hello @User.Name</h1>
will display the Username if the User context has been populated
etc etc
 
@DAustin Part of the problem with using an old tech stack is that you might not be up to date with the latest advancements in those tech.
 
4:02 PM
I would use EFCore, but the 2005 instance has screwed me for using it for our class library,
 
But, with experience, catching up should be easy.
 
@BlackPanther Yep, this has been mentioned in an interview to me last year
part of the reason i want out of here, because im falling further behind
thankfully .Net is still a good tech to know, so im relying on that to get me moving forward
 
@DAustin Yup, sounds like old Microsoft.
@DAustin Is PHP the one with too many curly braces?
 
Lisp
 
PHP uses $ signs everywhere
 
4:06 PM
Oh my...my brain just skipped _curly_
 
@DAustin Sounds like you made the right choice.
@DAustin Same, I never thought it would happen, but I've kind of abandoned Java, and it used to be my favorite language even though it wasn't my first.
 
I still havent learnt Java, im just assuming C# lifts so much from it ill be able to hop across if I need to
the annoying thing for me was I joined this company at the time JS frameworks started gaining traction, so not only am I on old tech for the backend, im on old tech for the front end too
I completely missed the boat on ES5/6 and Angular etc
so i can pretty much forget ever being a front end dev again
brb
 
@DAustin I want to confirm this is how I use the class library in the controller when I want to get or put data in the database?
> @DAustin In my case, the controller will call the class library to access the database, right?
@DAustin Yes, you should. A lot of C# experts are also Java expert, for that reason. Look at Skeet.
@DAustin It's never too late.
 
I've seen a lot of people doing direct db calls in controller
 
@DKDhilip Is that bad practice, and why?
 
4:18 PM
It works, but what would you think when you see a lot of SQL strings in controllers when you wanted to change the code
 
@DAustin I know how to build a web app version of that console app now except for the View part of it. Is there a getting started, or tutorial that shows you how to only integrate the View into an MVC app?
@DKDhilip Is it a case of code being too noisy?
 
It's a nightmare
 
Yes, I can imagine.
Also if you have other webapps or webapis that need the same behavior, having that behavior in the controller would be repetitive.
 
Yeh ive done db access in the controller, its not best practice but sometimes its ok if its a real simple call
@BlackPanther Take a look on the microsoft tech docs there's a tutorial there, but you should have a folder called Views, and some other View files like ViewIMports and ViewStart
the project should be able to generate them for you
but if you go on to the tech docs you should be alright
ive gtg now but ill possibly be on over the weekend
have a good one guys
 
Thanks. See ya later, mate.
 
5:01 PM
p3k mimi "they call me white boy" "who is also black"
 
 
4 hours later…
8:57 PM
how can we check if the json string is a type of model
 
 
1 hour later…
10:27 PM
 
@Feeds SHHH!
 

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